just for fun I tried this test with my taurus millium g2, highpoint .40, and my walther ppq. All worked flawlessly. I even shot the first two under water. Both worked just fine. Besides that, after a few thousand rounds in the highpoint it needed to be cleaned and this seemed the easiest way.
In a real world situation the chances of this happening are extremely rare. But if you are running from a bad guy and drop your primary gun in a puddle of water, then maybe reach for your back up pistol at that point. You do carry a back up right? : )
Except the firing pins breaking so they kept updating the pin and the latest one is the fully enclosed version first came out with the more recent tactical and now will be in all 509 moving forward. Grabbing an APEX firing pin so I can trust this gun again.
Bubbles or not, the glock seemed to have more trouble when submerged longer. If you're using it as a control it should be submerged for the same amount of time as the test gun.
My 4th gen glock wouldnt run wet. I bought a 17 the day after they became available and proceded to test it. Sent glock an email and they promptly sent me a new recoil spring/guide rod assembly that did fix the issue. So for those of you with early gen 4 Glocks be aware that they may have water issues as well.
I love that you guys hold the gun companies to the standards of what they claim... im not a person believes in crapping on gun companies i believe in getting it right.
(coming from a IT background).. that is not a defect.. it is a "feature" .. Safety feature at that.. to force a full drain to insure no over pressure.. (hint of sarcasm in case it was not picked up)
The reason the FN pistols do this is the open striker channel you can see into from the inside face of the slide. It concerns me exactly none, because I've carried an FNS and an FNS9C since before this video was made, and have not been submerged while armed, much less in a defensive situation. Today I liberated a 509 from my local pawn shop for cheap. Great guns.
Liquids are non-compressible while gasses are. This is the principle hydraulics work on to transfer force. With the striker channel filled with water the striker/spring cups act like a piston against the non-compressible fluid with only a small pressure relief valve in the form of the firing pin hole. The striker can only move forward as fast as it can evacuate water. The marine spring cups are the equivalent of drilling holes in your piston, no longer containing pressure to one side of the piston. Of course nothing comes without a cost and the marine spring cups are more prone to typical fatigue/cycle failure.
probably not anything i'd ever have to deal with, but you make a good case for there being some people who could be affected by it. if you ever do an addendum to this test, let's see how well a glock with maritime cups does.
The slide is hard to pull back because water is filling up the striker channel and when you pull the slide to the rear that water is compressing and providing some hydraulic resistance as it tries to escape the striker channel. The reason Glock puts those cups around the striker is to seal the channel which prevents water from hydraulically locking the striker. As you very well know every time you run the slide on a striker fired pistol similar to the one your using the slide actually engages the striker and either fully cocks the striker or at least partially cocks the striker and when you pull the trigger the striker is either released or the trigger like in the case of a “safe action” Glock finishes the remainder of the rearward travel of the striker into the fully cocked position and then releases the striker. With that said the difficulties being experienced while attempting to run the slide are almost certainly the result of hydraulic resistance from water.
Being from Arizona, I'm in more trouble if there is a foot of water nearby. As long as rain can't cause these malfunctions I'm pretty okay with these results.
Fn pistols can swell in excessive heat and direct sunlight. It more rare but I saw this happen to the fn45. Put it in an the ac for an hour and it went back to working condition.
Last year I watched as this very thing happened with Tim - "MAC" -- and now you. My 509 is setting on the table beside me so I just had to try it. There was 8 dead triggers in a row but with a split second, to let the water drain, it shot fine and every time after but unlike you I had no trouble with racking the slide.
It would be interesting to see the gun given a second go around with the Apex striker installed. The FN striker has design that is hollow shaped and may be contributing to the water problem. Apex may change things?
As of October 2022 the striker is not only solid but it looks like it's designed to not plunger the water trapped anymore. I'd like to see this retested on the new firing pin design.
I work around a lake a bunch, did the same test with G17 gen4. Did the same. Put maritime cups and extra power stiker spring in After test, no issues after 25 bucket drops.
I just recently purchased my very first Glock (they were forbidden by my father for slide bite reasons but I digress). The only reason I mention this is because my final choices were the FN 509 Midsize, Glock 19 Gen5 MOS, CZ P-07 and the CZ P-10S. The CZ's were effectively ruled out because I had oversold the P-07 in my head and was somewhat disappointed with the double action break on the trigger. We've all been there when we personally over hype something only to be let down by our high expectations. The CZ P-10S is impossible to find on the market right now and I don't have the luxury of waiting. Loved everything about the FN 509 Midsize with two exceptions. The sights seem to be precariously positioned on the slide. Something about the height of the sights and the overall bore axis gave me the impression of some goofy add-on pouch to some molle webbing on an EDC bag. The whole sight over bore axis just seemed odd with the 509 Midsize. Couple that with the first hand reports I've heard from some AZ agencies and my overall trust of the pistol has diminished. That naturally leaves me with the Glock 19 Gen5 MOS FS which was elusive but not unobtainable from a local gun store. I had entertained the idea of the Glock 43x, especially since there's a flush fitting 15 round mag set to be released. But I never buy first productions runs of any product until they fix all the bugs, and again, I don't have the luxury of waiting. The last honorable mention goes to the SIG P365, but my wife said it just looks too small for someone like me and I trust her opinion. Of course the Wilson Combat EDC X9 was continuously mentioned by me, but of course I can't justify carrying a $3k pistol as my primary weapon. So I dove into the Glock realm and seem to be treading water just fine. Appreciate the review(s) as always. Keep up the good work my friend. EDITED for double spacing.
For those who are unaware of the upcoming flush fitting 15 round steel magazines for the Glock 43x/48. It won't let me link directly to the site because of RU-vid's ridiculous policy so here are the directions: Shield Arms -> Parts -> Pistol -> Magazines & you're welcome. Enjoy my friends. EDITED (again) for double spacing.
Now I know not to get in any underwater gun fights with a great white shark. I wonder what kind of pistol great whites carry? Scooba diving gun battles are the most common kind these days....
Great demonstration! However, I would like to point out that the FN509 is a fenominal firearm for urban engagements. May even be one of the best in the 9mm class. However, there are dozens of firearms that I would choose over it all day for duty especially in a maritime setting. However, a failed water test does not disqualify a firearm altogether and I laugh overtime I hear it.
I have never understood why Glock doesn't just put the maritime spring cups standard in all their pistols. I get the odds of this happening are slim, but it's an inherent flaw in the striker system. Also, Mrgunsngear, you absolutely 100% must do this water test with the P320 M17 (and the Glock 19X).
lkjh00on89 Maritime spring cups are weaker. I believe Glock recommends the maritime cups be replaced every 10k rounds and the regular ones every 30-50k. Don’t quote me on the exact number, that’s just from memory. Knowing most LE agency’s and private owners don’t regularly inspect and replace parts and that many will exceed the expected life of the maritime cups it makes sense to use the standard as most shooters will never reach a high enough round count for failure. The problem is drastically overstated unless you’re a special operations guy doing amphibious assaults.
Very, Very Interesting. No need for inside the swim trunk holsters. Good argument for hammer fired over striker fired handguns in maritime or water submerging activities.
Got me I'm 1911 fan. I'm fan of high power hammer spring that will power impact firing pin home regardless of firing pin channel is full of lubes, water, or dirty. My 1911 and hk usp will fire hard berdan primer cheap ammo everytime unless primer is bad but it will leave a deep primer strike.
I wish videos like this one had a section on remedial action, like, shake the gun real quick right out of the water, just to demonstrate if that had any effect. Great video, keep up the great work.
Case in point both the glock and 509 failed , different ways and different times its inherent with striker fired pistols most of the times the springs are just never good enough, course you would never have this issue in water with a hammer fired pistol but people gotta learn somehow , still i would love to get a 509 tactical here sooner or later
I'm not going to let this discourage me from buying an FN and I'm a Glock fanatic. That being said I'm sure any and striker firs weapon fully submerged in water like that will have issues. It's your tactics and training that will correct an issue like this. But good to see examples of many things that can prevent mechanical toolsl like a firearm to fail.👍🏼
I wonder if a heavy striker spring with standard cups on the glock would make it go bang instead of light strikes. Either way atleast they make the maritime spring cups for glocks.
@@charliefoxtrot5001 maritime, and just because you dont see a use for them doesnt mean people that buy them are idiots. They exist for a reason right?
@@Hello_Im_O Yes, they exist for a reason. There is also a reason why they don't come on a stock Glock. They can make a Glock LESS reliable. Idiots who buy these don't know this. (PS: My autocorrect came up with the "marine" cups. LOL.)
@@charliefoxtrot5001 haha I hate auto correct, turned it off actually. And as far as reliability goes from personal use my 19x had a little over 2k rounds without a single malfunction though that isnt a high round count the cups looked just like day one (I was concerned they might break so i checked on them every 500ish rounds). Sold her and ended with a 17 mos g5, anywas thats also the reason i mentioned maby a heavy spring for the striker with standard cups might eliminate the light primer strikes and keep the mind at ease. Though I would like to test those ghost turbo cups with a lot more ammo but thats too much money where I live. 500Rounds special is around 200 bucks + 11.5% tax + 1-2% depending on the county tax.
@@NavajoIndianaJones what? What are you talking about? All HK USPs have proprietary accessory rails. The V1, V2, V3 etc variants are only in relation to the trigger
Try hot boiling water, then put some grits in it, then fry up some bacon and eggs. Put that on the grits once thickened. Top it off with some salt and pepper. Scramble it all together. Then try to fire the gun! Nothing shooting on a full stomach 😂
I noticed the striker makes a relatively tight seal in the striker channel of the 509. I assume water in the channel behind the striker is what's causing the slide to be harder to run.
And now this is why striker fired guns are not my go to shower gun. Thinking about upgrading to a shockwave type shotgun if any of them have a marine coat finish. Gotta protect my soaped up Bhole by any means necessary.
Really would have liked to see you try the trigger again, or if it was fully depressed, cycle it and fire like a standard failure to fire. Basically simulate what you'd do if this happened in a real situation. Also surprised about the Glock. Plenty of videos out there of stock Glocks firing underwater without maritime spring cups.
If the striker channel is manufactured to a closer tolerance in the FN 509, it may be causing a hydraulic lockup until drained as water in in-compressible. This may be related to problems racking the slide as well.
I guess that's one of the detriments with a striker fired handgun, no possibility of a second trigger pull in case the first one didn't set the round off.
Tap, rack, bang is being taught to remedy this for all types of pistols: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BfyULpEhmug.html. Get some training!
it blows my mind that this gun was made for the xm17 trials by a very reputable company that has made guns for the military for many many years dating back to WWII. But yet this gun clearly cant pass a pretty basic torture test that most striker fire guns can pass.
I've never regretted my Glock choice for my primary pistol weapon system. This has been validated about a million times and 26 years of personal experience in law enforcement and civilian life. Therefore, I own 6 of them in various sizes all in 9mm. 😉
Eric D...I have an extensive gun collection, But never had a Glock...due to I'm not too fond of the grip angle and I hate finger grooves in any firearm. However, I purchased a G19 Gen5 when the finger grooves were subsequently eliminated. I learned to get accustom to the grip angle. And to this day the G19 (Gen5) is my EDC. I was quite surprised that I shot the Glock better than some of my favorite pistols. I'm not brand myopic for any manufacture. But I did recently purchase the G-45 and G-43X. The 43x might be my summer EDC or when I wear shorts. Glock is sort of plain looking, but then I like clean lines. So not an ugly gun (not that it matters. But Glock is proven over decades in reliability and simply work. Again not a Glock or any company fanboy. But Eric is correct in his assessment.
Well that really pissed me off I spent 650 dollars for a gun that does that bullshit. Thats probably one of the reasons the 509 lost the competition to replace the Beretta m9 I guess i would be more pissed if i had spent the $1050 they wanted for the tactical version. Thanks for taking the time to make and post the video its at least good to know my guns limitations. My 509 is my EDC and i live in a city i cant just go in my back yard with a bucket of water a box of bullets and test everything out.
There’s something on the trigger mechanism of the 509 that can make the slide hard to get back in certain instances. Like if the striker is down but the trigger is fully pushed out as if it were reset you’ll have trouble getting the slide back
So if I happen to fall unexpectedly into a body of water simultaneously to engaging in a lethal self defense situation I need to be aware to take a fraction of a second to shake it out? Good info. Seriously, for Navy Seals, Maritime officers and I don’t know, a few others, this could be a serious concern but for almost everyone else this is a non issue.
Some times us as gun owners we greatly over think things. Like some who need a gun to shoot under water... look unless u plan on getting into a war while swimming in the ocean its no useful of course we want it to handle abit of water but. It isnt a deal breaker to no fire while submerged and ur not gonna hit anything and ballistics is gonna be insanly horrible in water. Also for instance i watch a gun melt down bideo the other a day a pistol shooting full auto thousands of rounds fast. And the polymer melted abit. Well i fathom think of any reason to shoot 1k rounds fast out of a pistol a rifle yes but i will mever carry that much ammo and a pistol ill have a rifle.. it isnt ment for that. Great video man love the content just was adressing some of the forseen complaints lol
I prefer Glocks but like the 509. I would say anyone with training would probably tap/rack just in case and this hopefully would clear whatever issue is causing the delayed ignition be it water or debrie. Obviously a duty pistol makes sense to have the maritime cups, ALL mine do. Good video. Enjoyed it. Always solid content here.
Nah, we should just carry dual belt fed, full auto, double barrel, 10mm 1911's with feed chutes coming from a back pack full of linked rounds. Except for one guy in the squad, who should have a flamethrower.
Probably the striker dragging along the trigger group since it didn't go forward into firing position. 'that's why the slide is so locked....maybe. And you need a kiddie pool.....
Well, that was fun - and you’re right, school would have been more fun and more instructive had this been taught - so THANKS for this RU-vid. However, I’m not entirely sure that this test has broad applicability; for SOF personnel and other maritime operators, it probably does, but for your general audience perhaps not. It makes me quite glad that my best “anywhere, anytime” autoloader is an older H&K USP .45 ACP Tactical (the somewhat smaller, but largely similar, stablemate of the MK 23).
A weapon that has a propensity to fail from hydro static lock resulting from a flaw that is inherent of the design (I.e. mechanical striker pin ignition) is a weapon with an obvious disadvantage under certain conditions. A truly interesting test would be to do the same test in temps ranging from 20-32 deg F to understand if internal icing would inhibit operation until the water has been cleared, or cause continued failure until fully warmed. Further, would freezing condensation cause failure when taking the SFP from the wet/cold to warm to cold again when operating in an arctic environment?
Just watched this fn 509 water video, I had noticed that fn just came out with a new firing pin and the shoulders are different and I think it may be to correct the hydraulic problem in the firing pin channel, it would allow the water to bypass the pin and let it move, can you try out the new pin in a water test?
It comes down to any water in a striker channel can cause this issue but I guess it depends on which gun allows it to drain quicker then the other. If your gun is submerged then I bet you will take the time to make sure the barrel is clear before firing and I bet the striker channel would be clear at that time.
