I am following different OW Guide-Channels for a long time. today i stumbled across your channel. Best advices I've heard in a long time. much more valuable than in other OW-Channels. Thanks for your effort and high value videos!
Haha the music at the end feels like the sad moment when you realize all your life was a lie and you are about to start for real without shitty forced plays.
I really love the points that you make in this video. The essence of your message is something that I've experienced in a lot of competitive games with high skill ceilings, you figure out what a "good" play looks like or what good mechanics look like but lack the forethought of achieving / defending objectives. This is really important in a game like league of legends. Another youtuber I watched defended a tower as heimerdinger for 17 minutes and never went back, whereas a lot of players might go back frequently for items, try to force trades, or for a minuscule amount of mana or HP they could've regenerated on their own. This is especially important in the bot lane where the enemy has the highest potential to push the wave in, taking away experience and gold for free.
I always sucked at league (But to be fair I only played it very casually with friends) but different genres have alot more in common than some people think. The thought process in a Pro Moba Match has so many similarities with games like Overwatch or even Starcraft that you dont think about, but once you "learn how to learn" you will have an easier time getting good in games. Thats also why really good players tend to be really good at a multitude of genres and games and they have an easier time switching. At first I was hesitant investing so much time into overwatch in case the game would die (As it turned out its definitely far away from that luckily) and all my "skill" would become useless. But I have learned so many things that will benefit in the rest of my gaming career, and Coaching and the odd RU-vid Video in a while gave me alot for my private life too. The way Overwatch changed my mindset carries my butt through university and I get along with people more easily once i started to have a more self critical look. I learned that I should always start an argument with the premise that I may be wrong, and that alone is a skill that everyone should have. And people say video games are useless.
Most times the team engaging has a upper hand. Since it is much easier to to engage since the enemy becomes very predictable even at the highest levels. You can see this from the top teams constantly, even though your logic applies to some cases where teams are too eager to do something, but def. not always.
Definetly! I should have been more clear about this, but this a:) Mainly applies to defense and b:) Is a matter of risk management, so you always need to think about "is the advantage of engaging first worth the extra risk of engaging first in this specific situation?".
I cant believe I ran into this concept on my own in my ranked games. I am trying to rank up on genji and realized how I can sometimes do very little and see great results. Sometimes the key to success is to not do anything until you really have to. Literally joked to my friends that I‘m autopiloting and relaxing while winning. I watched some of my own vods and learnt on my own that some times I couldve just not done anything and survived.
This is quite possibly the most important Overwatch video I've ever seen. Thank you for this. I often try to force too many engagements. As a tank player I often feel like if i don't act first the other teams tank player has the advantage. This video has made me step back and ask "Why do I do this?" I'm going to watch out for this behavior and work on it. Thank you iostux. You're the best.
Wow, great video! If I was that Genji I would have attacked the widow, but looking at it, there was no reward. That really taught me that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I can't believe this channel doesn't have 500,000 subscribers by now.
Well, if it was a good widow it would be more worth. When you make these decisions you must take your own skill and the value of your life into account. If I attack that widow do I have the skills to successfully take her down without dying? Is that widow good enough to easily repel my attack? Is it worth my time fighting this widow while we could be assaulting the point and how useful would I be in that team fight? If I ignore the widow will she make a difference in the team fight? Most people forget these questions. I see this very often, especially in diamond where most players over estimate the fuck out of their skills, and they are more concerned about elims. Ask these questions before engaging (and it doesn't take very long) and evaluate the risks involved.
Really awesome advice, as always. This kind of general "rule of thumb" teaching is so much more useful to me than tons of specific tricks and methods that other Overwatch channels teach. Really opening my eyes to weaknesses in my play style. Both you and Skyline are by far the best. Once I feel like I've plateaued and am not learning on my own anymore, I'm planning to buy a coaching session from you. Right now I'm still able to see lots of areas I need practice in though. Appreciate all the work you put into making these guides.
Im glad, thats exactly what I was going for! Don't worry, you aren't missing out on much by not getting a Coaching Sessions. Its really just a way for me to deal with tuition, and for people who need help and hit a roadblock on their own to get some advice on how to progress. As long as you are still seeing your weaknesses you shouldn't need a private Coach.
Yeah, one should definitly take your advice to heart. I mainly play Pharah and after I realized this by myself, my average death count dropped significantly, while my objective kills rose.
It's interesting that this video was made 5 months ago in the 2-2-2 meta, but it's so much more relevant in the Dive meta right now. Teams run Dive even on Defense, and they don't understand that just sitting around and WAITING for the enemy team to make their play for the capture is the BEST thing they can do. If the enemy are capping the point, you know EXACTLY where they are and can dive their high-value targets so much better than if they were still maneuvering around the map. Dive comp is especially reliant on picking out targets quickly and killing them fast. Knowing where your targets are without having to poke your head out and risk taking damage is the ultimate (and ult charge) advantage.
This sums up exactly how I feel playing Mccree on defence, since he's so reliant on positioning. I don't have to go out looking for kills, overextending and risk dying, the enemy team has to come onto the point, where I can safely pick them apart while they're in the open. I don't have to be in the front chasing kills and exposing myself to all the enemies. It is boring and unsatisfying waiting around, but I see so many overeager teammates rushing too far forward, looking for glory and kills, when all they're doing is taking unnecessary risks and giving the enemy an opening pick if they die, which is likely to happen without the backup of their teammates. Which is why I think to myself that I don't have to carry the team, killing everyone and getting amazing team wipes. I just have to do my job, and sometimes that means sticking behind the tanks, shields, being safe in my positioning and not getting that sick genji team wipe potg. If I get one Deadeye kill, and it wins us the game, there's no reason to risk charging it to try and get 4 kills.
thank you for phrasing some thoughts that I had a tough time explaining to others in the last months. Personally I had learned the situations of forcing through martial arts but could not quite show to my friends how it works. on another note, forcing situations on my enemies is why I like junkrat so much. you cannot shut him out so easily with a reinhardt shield, and especially in defense he forces an all-or-nothing push.
If you only play reactively though you could equally throw the game. In the lucio example, sure he could have waited and saved more time and helped win. But he could also get hooked, scattered, sniped, mccree twoshot etc etc and his ult goes unused and the enemy take the point. Honestly, I often find on defence if you use your ults efficiently, then using them earlier than the attacking team is better, as it means the enemy has less chance to get random picks on you and then snowball. For example on 2nd point hanamura you could save your earthshatter for when enemy Genji ults, or when they make a big push onto the point. Or if you have a guaranteed good shatter opportunity early, you could earthshatter 2-3 people early secure those kills and guarantee the teamfight and another extra 30 secs of wasted time for the enemy. if not, they could speed boost nano sword the Genji, suddenly your supports are down, you're scrambling around looking for the Genji and you may whiff your ult or he gets shielded by Zarya and the teamfight is lost and the point along with it. It's always a gamble either way isn't it? Play the percentages, what are the chances of this going well, and what are the advantages/implications of it going well. I don't think it's a straight up 'always play reactively' kind of solution. It's all about context, who has what ults, what could go wrong vs right vs how much does it matter.
Nope. The example he listed, what if instead of getting that team wipe-- the enemies fend them off? Maybe even take down 1 or more of your team? Now what? They have the short respawn, not you. So they'll have the advantage to push your point. His point about the DECISION being bad not the outcome. It was a huge risk to force a team fight off point there, for the Defenders. Just because it worked out doesn't make it a good call.
"But he could also get hooked, scattered, sniped, mccree twoshot etc etc and his ult goes unused and the enemy take the point. " Well with an unused, saved lucio ult the retake gets way more likely.. so why wasting the ult on an teamfight that didnt mean anything.. used ult to wipe team --> enough time on the clock for the next attack (wasted ult!) In my opinion every "unnecessary" (important!) initiation ult by the defense causes an ult disadvantage when the offense clashes in on their next attack. The only excuse would be of there are 5-10 seks on the clock and the enemy tries their last push.. otherwise.. dont waste defensive counterinitiation ults into an non threatening offense
Overall I found this to be a very helpful video for players and also pointing out that we need to ask ourselves what we're doing more, rather than our teammates. In most cases, trolls will be identified, a player not doing well can be for a million reasons. I try not to judge others but do what I can with the skill set I have. You point out something though, perhaps sometimes I try too hard sometimes to stand out as a solo queuer, although I do communicate to my team, I can remember plenty of times as lucio where I've popped my ultimate without even telling the team despite if it worked or not in cases I felt it was necessary or we were in battle and I noticed all my teammates were in my range. I also agree with the 'defensive mindset' and think that it's the best outcome. Now when it comes to being in the position to be defensive it can be challenging to establish, but once it is, it is. I appreciate the wording of your perspective on this. Forcing plays or making plays that don't really make sense like the genji dashing the widow since she's not on point and he can just wait. This is a good idea; to make them come to you, make them fight you on your own terms. Great video! Just for a frame of context for me, I have a skill rating of 2065 in Season 3, with a season high of 2167. I have competed in all seasons so far, but I am not a beta player (I ended up pre-ordering it after hearing about). The highest skill rating I had was in Season 2 (S2 End SR: 2339, S2 High SR 2657: I think some acknowledge S2 wasn't perfect in its match making system but I felt happy for getting Platinum rank in solo queue. The reason I did it was simply to get more competitive points at the end of the season. I follow a certain philosophy when it comes to competitive team sports as I used to be a pro-gamer (different genre, but still a team environment). I always try to flow like water, so to speak. To.... adapt using not endurance but the willpower and recognition to shape yourself to a particular outcome over time. Not that water thinks, just saying >____> :D
In my experience getting good in one game translates really well into other games. I dont know what genre you played professionally, but in order to do that you need a healthy attitude, be aware of steep learning curves and know how to approach learning about the game. Your comment reflects that well. I am pretty sure that with time you will be able to climb. Just make sure to try stuff out. Don't be afraid to give every pick a chance, some of my favorite characters right now were characters I hates before (Zarya and Ana for example, I absolutely hated them from the start but once I tried them out because they were strong they are some of my favourites).
sometimes in defense isn't better to engage first? expecially if u ran like no defensive ult is'nt better to go in first and maybe don't let the zarya pull off the graviton?
This video has helped sooo much. I am not very good at deciding when to use offensive ults like nano or dragonblade on defense, but now i think i have the right idea.
The problem is I can think of reasons why each of those plays were made... Example: Why go after the widow even though she can't see the point? Because she'll snipe my team mates who will get out of position. These are the kinds of thoughts I have throughout a match...
This thought of "not risking it/not forcing it /doing nothing" can contradict itself with the idea you explain in one of your latest videos; the one about over-respecting/fearing the enemy. IMO, sometimes taking risks is necessary, specially when you want to improve as a player. I've become a better player mainly by taking risks, making unorthodox plays at certain points, making lots mistakes in the process and learning from them.
I really appreciate this video and everything you teach but I feel like it contradicts itself sometimes. I usually play reinhardt and one of my biggest problems was that I played super passively. waiting for something to happen rather than initiating or having my teammates initiate. For example i never used earthshatter until the enemy rein did. or I would never go for pins fearing that I would throw if I missed/died anyway. knowing the risks I could take but never taking them vs knowing the risks I could take and going for it was always my biggest confliction. The more I took those risks the more I got to learn from them and the more my experience grew. I feel like everything you said was correct to a certain extent. I feel like if you always play reactionary than your not gonna gain any experience other than seeing your death counter go up. But I could be wrong. I'm open to opinions on this cause I honestly have a hard time understanding what this video is trying to get across.
Tausend Dank. Das brauchte ich gerade. Jemand hat mir heute gesagt dass ich entweder einen DPS Hero lerne und meine Spiele carry oder mich damit abfinde ewig in Bronze zu hängen. Für mich als eher konservativen Spieler war das ziemlich schmerzhaft und fühlte sich sowohl falsch als auch unfair an, nicht der Vorschlag an sich, einen offensiven Helden zu lernen, aber die versteckte Andeutung dahinter, das man als Tank oder Heiler es eigentlich verdient in Bronze zu sein. Von daher: danke!
Ne um Himmels willen, um ehrlich zu sein ist Tank eine der leichtesten Rollen zu climben (Gerade Zarya und Roadhog), und gibt mehr als genug Support Mains in High Elo (Habe diese Season 4k ausschliesslich mit Ana erreicht)
I agree with you for the most part, although Overwatchs solo que can be a little non-cooperative sometimes. Forcing a play can be risky, but these high risk plays also have high rewards and if you know your limits to the point where you can identify the "bad" forced plays you start only making "good" forced plays. I'm not saying that every forced decision is going to be great but you can eliminate the bad ones by practicing and reading the situation correctly. I feel like ultimates are sometimes forced when they should be used re-actively instead.
Thank you for making this video. All of this information is something I would never have concluded personally. (~2700) The best part is, this is stuff you can sell. I would be more than satisfied paying for "private tutoring" and receiving the exact same info as in this video, but you are here on youtube making videos (practically) for free. Thank you!
I GOT A FUCKING LEGENDARY FUCK YEAAAAH!!!! imgur.com/a/eXisX AND IT IS THE RING THAT IS SO FUCKING OP!!!!! I CANT ANYMORE BRB NEED TO WANK TO THAT SCREENSHOT
It takes much longer for defenders to get to the first control point than it does for attackers (on payload maps). Therefore staying alive should be higher priority than getting picks when defending.
Here 4 years later and this continues to apply. I recently hit gm and have another account i have decided to rank up however my pride makes me think i should be carrying games on this lower account (low masters), leading me to force so many unnecessary plays that many times end up in a loss. Even gms make mistakes (especially when you’re barely gm)
I sometimes have the exact opposite problem: I overthink stuff until it's too late. Like is it worth doing xy? Funny tho, when i just turn off my head and play intuitivly, I get better results. When I "force" myself to overthink stuff to optimze results, I feel like handicapping myself.
I look at you all see the love there that's sleeping While my guitar gently weeps I look at the floor and I see it needs sweeping Still my guitar gently weeps
I think this is also a very good and essential tip in CS, if you are a defender there is no need to push the attackers(if they aren't attacking), they are just wasting their time, you can just pick a good position and wait. Love your videos btw so lucky that I found your channel
it's interesting, any guide i watched before tells that ow isn't objective focused game and it's usually better to win teamfights by better positioning like high ground or whatever and only then worry about capture point/bombcart
I get your point but on the other hand not risking picks or just staying behind to wait for enemys won't help you with grinding up the ladder because your statistics will dramatically get worse.
People badly need to learn this... At least most people stopped running to enemy spawn (a mile away from teammates) in hope for an easy kill, just to get picked off and killed, turning attacking teams first attack into a 6v5, but still see this happening
Unfortunately the current 'skill based' SR adjustments are antithetical to calculated and deliberate play. When the right play is to stand and wait but the game offers reward for engaging the enemy where ever you can find them it gives players a perverse incentive to make poor plays.
so, if a player on my team does something and calls me to do something which in this situation is wrong, this could be considered baiting? because the right play would be to ignore my mate there and probably get screamed at...
ioStux: While defending an objective, is it always better to use your ultimates reactively? By that I mean: is it always worth it to wait until the attackers commit with some ultimates of their own? I always worry that the attackers will use some croud control ultimates like earthshatter or graviton and we (the defenders) will not even get the opportunity to use our ultimates (effectively wasting them entirely). I feel that in many fights, whoever uses their ultimate combo first, tends to win, especially if there's no sound barrier / transcendence available. I hope my question isn't too vague, this topic confuses me to be honest.
+Keld0rn Its not about always reacting, its about not biting at the first good opportunity. Dont be afraid of waiting a little longer in case you dont have a good opening, instead of just forcing it in a bad situation because you feel like you have to do something
man that outro music reminded me about kubo feelssadman. but anyway a good video. I see people so often forcing stuff that either shouldn't have happened or could be done way easier. For a decent amount of time my mindset is "the less ults u burn to win a fight the better, even moreso if none were used at all" but sadly it's just 1 out of 6 people thinking that way so it doesn't pay off that much, in soloq that is. For team play this video seems like a good reminder to the shotcallers.
I know I am late af but when I'm pharah and I ult and I get both supports but I end up killing my self is it good? Obviously I don't use it when we are at a disadvantage.
And that genji and widow, is the same I say to people who focus pharah as soon as they see one in the enemy team. I always tell them to only focus pharah if she is worth being focused on, in other words, if she is giving us trouble or keep killing us constantly, that's when you're supposed to focuz her. But the SOldier didnt listen, kept wasting time on the pharah, which was a bad pharah anyways. SMH to this game.
well make sure you do it to secure the point.. otherwise the other team is ulting you right back to where you came from =D this is the reason why pros jump of maps and let themselves killed when the teamfight is lost instead of wasting their own ults. to have as much time and ult advantage on the retake
It's better to just wait and let the enemy team out onto you? I always thought it's okay to aggressively hot as a defending team. I thought it's better to ult instead of just standing there and let them? I'm 3.3k btw so am I just a noob??
technically good advice. but be careful with the examples where one team is defending. if the defending team takes action too slowly, they might end up losing the fight despite being on the point. you should always force the enemy to do something, instead of watch them and then you cant react fast enough.
Dude I have these same thoughts and mentality but im still plat. Every match I try to tell players the same, but no point, season 5 no one cares anymore about game objective, they just want POTG, wombo combo for their videos and ego.
i have several questions about your video. I mean it's great and very useful. however, in that Lucio situation, you said it could have been better if he used his ult later to take 40 or 45 seconds away from the enemies instead of 30 sec. but what if that Lucio used his ult quicker and took away 30 seconds from the enemies, then got his ult again then took away 30 sec or more from enemies and keep repeating the pattern, instead of Lucio just waiting for 15-20 seconds more to use his ult. to make this more clear, there is 3 mins to defend the objective. so if you use a ult every 30 seconds, you get 6 ults and you defended successfully. in another round, you waited few more seconds to use your ult and got 3 mins to defend. so you used an ult every 45 seconds which means you used 4 ults in that round. also you defended it successfully too. so, why not use more ultimates to increase the winning rate? I saw a guide (soldier 76) from Borium and he said it's good to use the ult as soon as possible and people hesitate because they are afraid that they might mess it up. so what I'm trying to say here is that should I wait for my ult to take away the time from enemies or keep using ults and building ults constantly?
This would only be a problem if you never used your ult. If you use it after a while, you waste the enemy's time more. The enemy still comes back next fight, but when you delay each fight, there will be less time TO fight. For example: If I was D. Va and I didn't wait to use my ult, assuming we wiped the enemy team everytime, that DOES result in more ults, but only because it results in more team fights had. If I was D. Va and waited as long as I could before using my ult, and each team fight was twice as long, and that's approx half as many team fights, AND it was less risky. Ults used more frequently = More ults charged, and more team fights had (which are more risky) Ults used reactively = Less ults charged, but less team fights had, (which are less risky) If you use more ults you are giving the enemy more opportunities that they shouldn't have to beat you, since you already have the objective.
I'm not agreeing to this, in most of your examples (not all of them) the fight was incoming no matter what and both teams knew it, better engage them before getting engaged and keep or at least get the control of the fight.
Thats true with tilted back in s 5 when i played gengu i was realy good mechanical but was always tilted af i always went in and tryd to teamwipe i mostly got atleast 3 but it didnt matter and we lost and that tilted even more becose i didnt understand what i did wrong i got 3 picks .. i dropped from dia to gold in 2 days and stopped playing now i only play tank and just protect team and dont try to make plays and i got a bit more humble nowni dont tilt anymore maybe time to weeb again xd
I really enjoyed the message in this video. Can you please, please never super impose a screenshot or video over video? It's extremely distracting and doesn't serve any end goal. Thanks.
