here's a thought: assuming it was a stuck solenoid... the reason the computer couldn't solve it is because the solenoid is PWM controlled, whereas you shoved 12v right into it full bore. AKA you hit it harder than the computer can. basically, you hit it with a bigger (electrical) hammer. :D
That's what I was thinking. The computer eases that timing around; he just wacked with unrestricted pixies multiple times. You usually pay extra for that kind of action.
20:42 as a Ford tech, you are exactly right. Once that solenoid sticks and the PCM sees the incorrect camshaft position. All VCT operation is disabled until the codes are cleared. That is why it wouldn’t have fixed itself. You needed to manually actuate the solenoid to clear the debris. Then once the PCM saw the cam timing was correct again, then VCT operation is allowed to resume.
Yeah. Our shop mostly sees GM products, despite Ford's being the majority ownership where I live. Sometimes, my boss and I will fight over who gets to work on something different other than GM.
Heya Eric, from Australia. You activated the solenoid with straight 12 volts whereas the activation from the PCM is PWM. I think you inadvertently hit the solenoid with a 12 volt hammer and freed it up.
@@2secondslater Oh yes the PCM would never "Hammer" the Solenoid, you are correct there. I was agreeing in the first place. I should have been more clear.
Hey I’m a ford tech and the most common issue with the pre 2018 5.0’s is the phaser solenoids getting weak and causing timing codes, with the miles I recommend to replace all 4 solenoids to prevent further issues.
I can only tell you from my experience with them, if you replace one, within a couple months it will be back for another one- they get weak and then the timing starts to wander and set codes.
@@SteelheadTed You do realize a dealer tech doesn't get the ticket price, right? His advice isn't wrong. You are already without your truck when it runs wrong, you're already paying for a diag. If one of the solenoids is weak and they all are the same age you are money ahead to change them all while you are in there to keep the truck reliable. Do you change your spark plugs as a set or do you just change the one that misfires so you aren't getting "ripped off"? I just do sidework now as I went into welding years ago, but I would make the same call to replace all 4 to prevent comebacks. Especially since if I just do one a few months later when another one fails I'll be accused of being a hack ripping people off since I was the last one who touched the truck.
Those solenoids have a spring at the bottom of the spool valve that opposes oil pressure. Over time that spring can get weak and it will cause problems.
I knew a mechanic from the neighborhood when I was young. Everytime I asked him about something on my car, he said.....I got a big hammer! 😂 BTW....Thank You! I have a 2015 Platinum. A bit ago, I plugged in a tool and was looking at live data and saw my timing all over the place! I was freaking out! At idle, 5, 7, 10.5, to 16 degrees! But fluctuating back and forth, up and down the whole time? When rpms were upped and steady it advanced steady. That's how I ended up watching this video. I also saw someone elsewhere say that Ford controls the idle with timing?
We fixed a cam timing problem on a sludged up Hyundai with the BG dynamic restoration service. We've now done a few of these now and are still amazed at the results! It's the only thing I've seen that fixes sludge, as long as it doesn't already have bearing damage...
Intermittent issues like this always bothered me, but shouldn’t as long as the customer is aware. Classic Eric O nails it with his saying: “I didn’t design it, I didn’t build it, & I didn’t buy it!”
I agree with you about the engine flush. People need to understand this is your shop, reputation, and insurance policy on the line. You have to have as little liability in it as possible to protect you and your investment. Those flushes are not recomended by any manufacturers that i have seen so i dont do them either. If a manufacturer were to recomend it in service data about using something specific, then i would consider it only if the customer understands it is not a guaranteed fix. I feel like those are more bandaid type solutions for a bigger problem.
I had a stuck lifter on a 89 mazda at 105k miles. Put atf in there and drove it ez for 2 heat cycles, maybe 20 miles. Ticking went away, engine outlasted the frame, 165k. No way Eric is going to do that because of the engine shitx its on him
I was fixated on #5 cyl. coil bringing disconnected when you were clicking the solenoid. I'm like Eric will see this pretty soon l hope! You never disappoint! LoL. There's that attention to detail thing again. I have had success exercising different manufacturer 's solenoids.l always figured power probe blast was more intense than pcm pulse width modulation and that's what freed it up? Good tech buddy as usual,beats reading woke newspaper before work. You have actually inspired an old tech to get after it again. Thanks young man!!
just did one of these on a 2011 Ecoboost F150. Check engine light after a timing job, that was not what I wanted to see. Come to find a faulty exhaust solenoid, had the phaser fully advanced. The factory flow chart is helpful to a point, at least on Alldata, if you've never encountered this problem. Love the videos, and your diagnostic approach. It's helped me become a better tech.
Thinking outside the box. If solenoid was stuck -- Power Probe (great tool) may be able to flow slightly more current to the solenoid as compared to what ever level of current the PCM supplies to solenoid. More current may encourage solenoid operation. I also maybe out in left field. Just a thought -- as always good video.
All caught up on Cam Phaser 101 lesson....you really have taken the mystery out of how these things actually work....2 of my 6 Ford coil pack connectors have zip ties...typical...thanks SMA
Just a tip for DIY mechanics out there. Many times a stuck VVT solenoid can be cleaned up with some throttle body cleaner. So if the meter shows okey Ohm value give the cleaning a try before buying a new one.
354,500 miles on my 2011 5.0 Ford F150 (same engine). Use only recommended Ford Motorcraft semi-synthetic 5W-20 with Ford oil filters every 5,000 miles or close. Uses oil but never any issues. Going strong. I believe in regular maintenance and lots of luck!
@@badrobo21 Oil labeled "full synthetic" in the usa is still petroluem oil, just refined, its group 3. You need to get group 4 or 5 oil from companies like amsoil or redline to get a real synthetic oil. Synthetic blend is a joke, i am not aware of anything regulating the blend amount, so it could be 10% group 3 "synthetic" and 90% group 2 conventional...
Ford recommends motorcraft filter and motorcraft synthetic blend 5w-20 with 10k mile intervals... I will take it to 8k mi max. Filter every time. A few times other brands based on sales at parts store. My 2012 5.0L has 222k mi. Zero issues. Never had a check engine light.
Ford tech here, those phaser solenoids are common issue in the 5.0s. Haven't had one stay stuck like yours but you more commonly get them they are partially stuck and you can watch the vct pids swing + to - constantly as it tries to correct itself.
I just had the same issue on a Ford F-150 a couple weeks ago. Those solenoids are really close tolerance between the spool valve and the barrel so it doesn’t take much to stick them. When you start the engine you have oil pressure acting on the solenoid spool valve as well. So when you shock the solenoid with 12v and the engine off you have also removed the oil pressure from the equation which allows more freedom of movement with the spool valve. This freedom of movement without oil pressure can be all it takes to unstick the solenoid but chances are it will stick again. It’s also a good test if you are trying to determine if it’s a bad phaser or solenoid problem. Phasers usually don’t fix themselves.
I keep telling everyone to use Marvel MYSTERY OIL. The stuff works. It keeps sludge from building up in tight clearances, and keeps rubber seals pliable. No, I'm not paid by them. I'm 77 and I've been using it since I was 12 on the advice of an old timer, now long passed. RIP.
Hey Eric, this doesn’t have anything to do with this ford, but I just wanted to thank you. My 2010 Silverado had a P0449, tank vent valve solenoid open circuit, I used what I learned from watching your channel that the solenoid is bad. Checked power and ground at the solenoid when switching on with scan tool, all was good. So I am replacing solenoid.
I'm a 78 yr old shadetree mechanic. I didn't believe in engine additives/flushes either until I saw the Project Farm video where he gave his Ford Ranger a triple dose of Seafoam, gas, intake, and oil. Afterwards the noisy lifters had quietened down. Anyhow, the last couple of oil changes on my 2002 F150 5.4 with 170k miles I added 6 ounces of Seafoam to the oil about 30 miles before changing. The oil was blacker upon draining and the engine is a little quieter on cold startups now. I plan to continue doing it. The truck had 69k miles on it when I bought it and I don't really know how often the oil was changed before I got it in 2009. I had my oil changed at a quick change place in Illinois I think when I was working there and their standard practice was to add a cleaner to oil before they drove it into the bay. Poed me at the time.
Makes sense, hitting them with the power probe gave them a jump start, and possibly the exhaust one is on its way out, best to replace it as You said. Nice diag work!
As a diesel technician, I would have to agree with your comment on once it throws the code it shuts down that circuit for self preservation. See it on Cummins engines and also see it on the multiple modules that are on the vehicle itself. They see something they don’t like and shut that circuit off. Mainly see it myself when the signal wires aren’t happy or short to grounds and short to highs.
Thanks for sharing, it looks like there's not much more that you can do as you documented it now working and not failing. I have also noticed that you sometimes (rarely) can free up the phasers/cam gears while continuously manually switching on and off the solenoid and sending oil to the phaser while the engine is running and there is the slight chance that it too can free up and start phasing correctly like how your situation did here on the f150. Other than that, if it doesn't work, then obviously internal work is needed. Thank you for sharing once again and glad yours got operating correctly!👍👍
I did the math. Created some algorithms, did some 3D calculus, I did complex 3 dimensional geometry, and wound up with a truly fantastic Bloody Mary. And, watching you, I realize that you are (in my personal opinion) completely right. No engine flush, change the oil and drive it. If it happens again, then bite the bullet and change all 4 phasers, and we have a happy camper... er.... customer. I'm off to mix up another Bloody Mary. Cheers! Thanks, Mr. O. Great video!!
From one tech to another, you are correct in assuming the code shut down the solenoid function. I see it alot in the GM products. Great troubleshooting BTW.
Had the same issue with a Kia Optima 2.4 yes the recall blow up engine. The vvt solenoid was always clogging with dirt. Found out the customer was following Kia recommendations for oil changes every 5000 miles. I talked them into every 3000 miles and the problem went away. The OEM service is not always right. Great job Eric as usual
@@insideoutsideupsidedown2218 As a toyota tech myself, Theyre great vehicles but i still never recommend over 5k for oil changes. The engineers arent the ones setting the mileage intervals. Theyll last great at 10k services until the warranty is up.
@Russell Hltn I was just pointing out the fact that the marketing team keeps pushing back oil change intervals to say that they require less maintenence than their competitors. As long as it makes it out of warranty they don't care. As for 5k oil changes, we really don't make money from them.
I loved seeing that spark plug wire disconnected during the solenoid testing and seeing how long it would take for you to see that, haha. I used to see that a lot on spark plug connectors at the ford dealer. I think people get a little too rough with them clips and they just start pulling and prying to get it out. Great video as always, I've been watching for 8 years now! Learned a lot from you, including that I need more tools for this profession 😅
The reliance of those retardation mechanisms on the *hydraulic* properties of oil just underscore the importance of regular oil changes (and no o flushes!!) For years, nobody cared about anything other then oil that lubed and cooled. You just can't do that anymore. Thanks as always, Eric!
Ford requires synthetic blend oils at a minimum for the cam phasers to work properly. They do not recommend conventional oils. They recommend oil changes at 5000 miles. I hope this helps anyone with a newer ford vehicle.
Owners manual says 10k mi with motorcraft synthetic blend oil and filter. I will go to a max of 8k mi. My 2012 has 222k mi. Zero issues. Never had a check engine light.
Not a good idea to go 8k miles with synthetic blend engine oil. You are going to destroy your trucks engine once it hits 100,000 miles at that interval rate. with cam phasers and small oil passages, that is a recipe for disaster. I use Full Synthetic Oil and I change it every 4,000-5,000 miles, I don't believe in oil lasting to 6,000 miles. If you want to run synthetic blend then I suggest every 3,000-4,000 miles on every oil change and nothing more.@@wyattgardner3552
Another fine diagnosis. I love that you truly take the time and research to come up with an plausible reason for problems instead of loading the parts cannon.
I agree the dealership probably would have kept the truck for a week did the timing set, phasers, rocker followers and a ton of other shit and 3 grand later the customer has his truck back.
I had the cam shaft correlation (p0016) on my car. Dealer diagnosed it to a EGR valve/cooler !!!. Moved the car to a non auth shop, they changed the cam sensor, worked for years now 1000usd vs 200usd bill.
AMSOIL user here. I change oil once a year on January 1st. 185000 on a 2012 hemi. Never had any lifter or phaser problems. I used to be the change oil every 3000 kinda guy until employment at dealerships and other garages and realized that even a 20000 mi engine can fail.
Yep. People buy $50,000+ vehicles and take them to the shop every 3-5k, and the shops use the cheapest oil and filters they can buy. Many people go 2-3k over the oil sticker, and many don't check their oil. And people wonder why their VVT, timing chain, AFM, etc. has issues. Not to forget, the "full synthetic" fraud i would call it, of advertising group 3 petroleum oils as synthetic, when they came from the ground! Oil quality is super important in today's engines, with vvt, direct injection, and turbos.
Your advice to not ever do engine flush is spot on but if anyone want to flush it to kill their engine, destroy the oil pump and regret it then go ahead. Oil and filter change is enough and modern oils are full of additives.
Of course there was a Ford F-150 commercial right in the middle of your diagnostics 😂 Love your videos; almost always learn something new and interesting.
Thanks for all the videos almost everyday! I've learned a a lot over the years, even if I don't work on cars almost ever. I need a shop like your around where I live, Care to move to Nova Scotia Canada haha.😅
When I worked in a mechanical telephone switching office way back in the 60s-70s we had a saying in troubleshooting a piece of switching equipment usually consisting of banks of relays that have to operate in a sequenced order and that troubleshooting technique was called "stare and compare" the operation to a good unit. It worked rather well in conjunction with the wiring schematics.
Never use engine flush! I agree Eric! All you'll do if the engine is gunked up is you'll break crud loose and it plugs oil galleys! Instant oil starvation... time for a new engine! Best solution: Change the oil frequently a few times.
Had an 04 Infiniti i35 with the VQ35DE. Had over 200k miles. It would throw vvt codes. Replaced gaskets, opened the sensors and cleaned them. Then changed the oil. Codes stayed off until 3k miles was up and I'd change the oil again and it would automatically clear the codes until it needed an oil change. Ive owned and sold over 200 cars and that was the only one that would throw a code when it was time for an oil change. Pretty sure it was coincidence, but clean fresh oil in the variable valve timing system is KEY
Just sharing experience. I work as an electronic tech in a steel mill. One problem I encounter all the time with low voltage solenoids is the connectors. When they live in a harsh environment with extreme heat, cold, and moisture, such as in an engine bay, the plug contacts can get a little corrosion/oxidation on them and they stop passing power. The fix? Pull the connector off and reseat it, which scuffs and cleans the contacts. That may have been your solution right there. How did the O-rings look on the plug? I've seen solenoids stick many times, but it's not as common as the connector issue. Especially when hydraulic fluid is maintained and kept clean. With higher voltage coils, that little bit of resistance doesn't matter as much, but with 12 volt, it can be a big deal. Then there's the other problem you can have. The bad wire that's making intermittent contact that always seems to be making contact when you have your ohm meter on it. Time will tell on this one, but I'd bet money you just fixed it.
As an aircraft mechanic I can relate. Often we'd just re rack the component in question and voila! Fixed. Working on L1011s they had boxes full of PC cards for the autopilot, auto brakes, auto land, direct lift control, etc. The first thing when faced with such a write-up was to remove the corresponding PC card and take a pencil eraser to the edge connector. Probably an 80% fix.
The main problem I have found with quite a few cam timing problems is lack of use , by which I mean revving the engine under load so that they come into use. The oil is clean but the owners drive gently to save gas, but when they do a quick pull out the engine flags up a fault as in the vvt sprocket the oil is old and thicker. I have this on a couple of Toyota's and Honda's where all I have done is get them hot , then held them in lower gears and taken the revs right up several times . The oil gets flushed in the sprockets, they start to move and the car has regained it's youth ! Most of the cars were owned by retired people and the transmission shifted well before vvt really came into play , none could be described as road burners.
Great diagnostic! Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think Ivan got one solenoid stuck with a piece of its internal filter (removed with tweezers, as proof of concept, before replacing). Oil and filter change might be a good idea.
There's a service message we have for basically doing what you did giving the solenoids 12 volts to try and clear any blockages. I haven't replaced any solenoids on the 2nd gen 5.0 trucks but have on the 3rd gen trucks.
Hey Mr O...my son was driving an 07 5.4 F150 and it had the cam phaser issue. Pull the solenoid out and it had sucked it's own screen into the bore (or the oil was dirty and pushed it in) thereby causing the solenoid to stick open. If this truck was a bit closer to the 07/08/09 model years I would have pulled and replaced all 4 of them. Also an oil flush would not hurt either. PS Love your channel, "if I can do it, you can do it!"
My wife's Kia Soul has 163K, which is the highest mileage engine I've ever dealt with. It was my daughters car that we bought at 147K rather than "giving" it to the dealer when she bought her new one. She had a maintenance contract on it but never knew what they used in it. I started it on a diet of HM synthetic and a few hundred miles before the oil change, dump 8 oz. of MMO into it. First couple of drains did seem a bit darker than was on the stick before adding the sauce. Now, it's about the same. So, anecdotally, I think there is some good to be said about a little extra "cleaner" being added on a temporary basis. But, running it on straight "magic juice" of some kind? Strikes me ass a bad idea, too.
There could be a slight chance that the dirty stuff in that old oil that doesn't drain out normally may get pushed around somewhere it doesn't belong when you add the cleaning/thinning agent to flush it out. I am guessing that is why Eric is not willing to take that chance for liability reasons.
Keep the oil changes frequent. Every 4000 miles or 6 months which ever comes first.. OIL IS CHEAP, ENGINES ARE EXPENSIVE! USE A GOOD REPUTABLE OIL. I use Mobil 1. Just my personal preference. Good one Eric. Hope this vehicle keeps going well now.
I have a 2015 f150 it has 87 thousand miles on it. I always recommend 3-5 thousand mile oil changes. Help keep from having fazer issues. Of course I have the 2.7 which I had to add a jlt 3.0 catch can. Boy do those fazers sound noisy on that 5.0. I would change the solids and add 5 once’s of seafoam and take it for a 20 minute ride before an oil change help clean the small ports in the fazers to keep them quiet. Nice job on the diagnosis keep up the good work
Great video,again! My antique 2004 civic SiR has the dreaded cold start VTEC actuator rattle. If its 0 degrees outside it rattles, it its 5 degrees, no rattle. What gives!
Hi Eric bonus resolve for the customer if that is truly a fix. I would agree with the snake oil ways to fix the problem. When I worked in the trade I use to cringe at the thought of using flush products to try and fix anything. The cam and crank float on a thin film of oil and putting anything other than oil in the crank case introduces the risk of metal to metal contact if even for a split second this happens it's over for the engine. The best thing to do at that point is change the oil 4 to 6 times at about 2500 to 3000 Kms and hope the additive package in the oil does it's job.
If the engine has been so neglected to where there are gooey bits floating around plugging things up, if you do flush the engine, you're just going to break loose more and bigger gooey bits which will cause the engine to detonate. My suggestion is to change the oil regularly, use a high quality oil and filter, then your engine won't have any gooey bits floating around in the first place.
Eric funny you don’t recommend oil flushes we had an ageing car in the early 2000’s and mechanic recomended an oil flush as it had done nearly 200,000 k’s motor blewl up less than 2000k’s later, worst decision I’ve made as it had been perfect no oil use no probs at all! Your spot on as it could dislodge all kinds of garbage and block oil pick ups all sorts can go wrong. Great job on the ford by the way👍 cheers from Australia 🍻
I agree with all you say and did. None of all that flush stuff. What a mess. My bank 2 code popped, intermittently. I changed the oil, due anyway. Didn’t fix. All read ok. Just replaced the one VVT solenoid with gasket. Code reset. 1000 miles still good. Some people just clean the solenoids, not sure about that.
At 0:51 you say, "I'll tell one thing, if this were a Chevy it wouldn't be doing this." I whole heartedly agree with you on this point. If it was a Chevy you would be pushing it into the shop because it wouldn't run at all..........LOL
And not even an apology for falsely blaming the ford as at fault. Un plugged coil and stuck solenoid, hardly Ford or engineer issue. LOL as always great vid!
