Forest Shuffle - Board Game Review - Unbalanced Ecosystem

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Forest Shuffle - Board Game Review - Unbalanced Ecosystem
In Forest Shuffle, players compete to gather the most valuable trees, then attract species to these trees, thus creating an ecologically balanced habitat for flora and fauna.
To start, each player has six cards in hand, with cards depicting either a particular type of tree or two forest dwellers (animal, plant, mushroom, etc.), with these latter cards being divided in half, whether vertically or horizontally, with one dweller in each card half.
On a turn, either draw two cards - whether face down from the deck or face up from the clearing - and add them to your hand, or play a card from your hand by paying the cost, then putting it into play.
Each tree and dweller shows a cost, and to pay this cost, you must discard cards from your hand into the clearing face up. If you play a tree, flip the top card of the deck into the clearing, then place the tree in front of you. If you play a dweller, pay only the cost on the dweller you choose, then slide this card under a tree that has an empty side that matches the dweller you want to play. (A tree can have cards played on all four sides of it: top, bottom, left, and right.)
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Who Am I?
One single batchelor from the UK talking about his passion for board games and the people who play them! I support small content creators, board game cafes and go against the status quo when it comes to the board game industry. I give my honest opinions without bias towards any publishers or designers and will not hold back if I don't like a game.
The Broken Meeple is a variety channel that hosts all kinds of board game content from reviews to Top 10 lists to playthroughs to live stream collaborations with special guests (predominantly small channels who deserve more exposure).
I look forward to engaging with you, the community on my live streams or in the comments on my videos!
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Timestamps:
00:00 - Opening Promo
01:10 - Introduction
02:20 - Basic Overview & Game Comparisons
05:58 - The Good Stuff
09:07 - The Bad Things
20:13 - Summary, Verdict & Player Scaling
23:31 - Please Share and Support The Show
#brokenmeeple #forestshuffle #lookoutgames #boardgames #boardgame #lukehector #supportsmallcreators #tabletop #tabletopgames #bgg #boardgamer #boardgamereview
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Full credit to BoardGameGeek and its members for any images used that aren't my own or part of the publisher press kit.

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Опубликовано:

14 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 137

@gravecac9522 8 месяцев назад

Fantasy realms has an app that makes scoring that card game a breeze. Sounds like this game needs one.

@user-jj5xl2fx3y 8 месяцев назад

this is why your reviews are the gold standard. The Dice Tower review of this game, published the same day BTW, is barely a sketch with glowing PRAISE for this game. it looks good, but it has enough demerit points to drop it from my buy list. Your FULL reviews of player count, touching on all practical aspects of a game AT THE TABLE, keep me coming back for more! well done sir!

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

DT will never mention balance issues in reviews that's their choice. But certainly I thought the point in scoring was toned down, that's a massive chore at the end. But for the game to be this imbalanced needs to be talked about.

@revimfadli4666 7 месяцев назад

Sound like another game that could easily become great just by adding Century/Smallworld-style self-balancing

@MarkB-uu5we 8 месяцев назад

It's funny but I have played this game several times on BGA, really enjoy it. Definitely part of me saw a few cards (the butterfly one for an example) and I was thinking, I will never go for that one because too luck based or effort or both. I've been really itching to get the physical version of the game, and you have just destroyed that for me - in a good way. Your comments about the strategy problems now make absolute sense about a couple of games I played on BGA and wondered how great scores compared to mine were achieved. Fantastic review Luke, I always keep an open mind when watching your reviews because you often pick something up others don't and it's great hearing those opinions. Don't change a thing.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

I certainly won't!! Thanks!

@MGee1 4 месяца назад

Exactly the same here...love it on BGA, but even playing it there you realise all these points are valid. I can't help but think the early release on BGA was key to the buzz and part of their marketing strategy.

@a-c-m 8 месяцев назад

Awesome review, that’s why I watch your stuff. I can fully see your points and find it strange that other reviewers have not picked up on them.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Some don't want the backlash of justifying balance to comments or don't want to rate anything low from a major publisher.

@shatnershairpiece 8 месяцев назад

@@TheBrokenMeeplebut wait! I thought every game was phenomenal! How am I supposed to live now?

@untilmay9323 8 месяцев назад

@@TheBrokenMeepleyikes. That's a wild accusation

@sadekhanna 8 месяцев назад

I agree with you on a lot of things, but not the scoring, I don't find it bad. Yes, trees and deer are very powerful, but if everybody at the table knows that, you can and should mitigate that. I can see the faults of this game, but I still enjoy it. I can't deny that the BGA version is convenient, but the physical copy is worth it if you want to play it with people who don't play online.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

"if everyone at the table knows that" - and there in lies the problem.

@thereal4579 11 дней назад

@@TheBrokenMeeple Yet the problem is self correcting when everyone knows not to let one person get all of a specific card. Similar to 7wonders and science, if you ignore everyone ignores it and one person wins due to it that's a group problem not a balance issue.

@steeveman 8 месяцев назад

You make some great points! Thank you for your honest review!

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Thanks for watching! And appreciate the love for honesty.

@peterevensen 8 месяцев назад

I love your reviews and cut scenes! A tax accountant…is bothered by the scoring…What an indictment!

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

The scoring is just insane! 😵‍💫😵‍💫

@nicolaithorning 8 месяцев назад

Your review confirmed my own impressions from the runthroughs I have seen. Thanks.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Glad I could help!

@JonoNZBoardGamer 8 месяцев назад

I watched the dice tower review before watching yours. Having only watched reviews/overviews I got the sense that scoring would be a nightmare and DT didn't seem to brjng it up, and gave a seal of excellence! I was adding it to my wishlist, until I watched your review 😊 thanks as always Luke!

@naomiooooo 8 месяцев назад

I wonder if the DT review was based on BGA 🤔

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

They don't like to be negative. And I think they don't find scoring a chore in a game period.

@Therisktaker3 4 месяца назад

I have the physical version of the game and I didn’t find the scoring that difficult.

@jsbach1750 8 месяцев назад

Good point about colors, Luke! I appreciate your concern for the colorblind. The publisher needed to check their grayscale shades perhaps to make sure the close colors were max and min to make them easy to differentiate

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Well even for me who isn't colour blind I struggled to tell them apart at times.

@MGee1 4 месяца назад

Those damn pine cones! WTF!

@_Venom_77 8 месяцев назад

I absolutely love this game but i also absolutely agree with you : - Cards are very small (i was even surprised when i got the game). - Only 2 interesting combos (Deer+ Wolf and amphibians and ferns), i hope an futur extension would fix this problem. - Scoring part is really painful (maybe an app on smartphone would help) .

@mikaeki5245 8 месяцев назад

Thank you again for your honest review!

@dreamofempire2114 8 месяцев назад

Thanks for the honest review. I was on the fence with this one but you have saved me money and frustration.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Glad I could help with my honesty. 😁👍

@AaronAndSusie 8 месяцев назад

I freaking love this game on bga too. I was worried about what you mentioned in your verdict before I pre-ordered but I definitely still want to try it because I love it so much on bga

@catherinetaylor556 8 месяцев назад

Great review- loved the intro

@andrethannhauser6302 2 месяца назад

This is why Superman watches your reviews.

@xiaoyingchen8560 7 месяцев назад

Thanks for your honest review!

@shanefrancis34 8 месяцев назад

Sorry Luke, I love your honesty, but you could not be more wrong about this game. For me, this is so much better than Earth( don’t get me started on the chosen colours). The scoring is a bit of a thinker but was relatively easy to work out step by step. I hope this game does well and definitely hope there is an expansion with more species.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

I hope they balance it first 😅

@undersci 8 месяцев назад

While I agree that deer & wolves are stronger than other strategies, my experience has been that players tend to gobble these cards up and not let one player run away with the huge scoring that comes with allowing one player to get a ton of these cards. Also, after about 30 plays, I have not seen the game outstay its welcome at any player count, either live or on BGA.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Doesn't help in a 2-3 player though. And gobbling them up just emphasises how broken they are.

@henryjoconnell 8 месяцев назад

If I were to teach this game I'd feel like I'd need to mention which cards are "broken" out of fairness And if you have to do that it probably means there is an issue

@tonycork2pa469 8 месяцев назад

Luke, given the wide availability of tree cards and their recycling to other players via the clearing, does their marginal value get competed away, and in so doing, enhance the modest scoring for butterflies and rabbits as a result? Caveat - I've only played on BGA and need to play more to unearth the "flaws" you highlighted.

@dangerousbeans2907 6 месяцев назад

@@TheBrokenMeeple Exactly.

@ten_oclock_scholar4690 8 месяцев назад

All of my plays are on BGA, so my score would probably be closer to an 8. If I get a copy, I will definitely take your advice and make a new scoring sheet with every animal on it. I have noticed that certain card combos are stronger than others, and I do tend to avoid butterflies and fireflies, but I find the cards that give you extra points for top or bottom cards or for surrounding the whole tree to be a good complement to some of those weaker point scoring cards. Not sure if it's enough to overcome the balance issues; I'll have to play a few more times to see.

@DudeHUN1 8 месяцев назад

Good to hear an other opinion. I heard only positive things about this game in overall. DT loved it too. And the game seems very iteresting to me. I will give this a try. But thumbs up for your opinion, even if I disagree with you a lot of times.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Fair enough!

@benklocke9300 8 месяцев назад

You need cards to play cards. But: Forest shuffle lucks in engine building getting these cards quicker.. There are some combo possibilities but if you dont have some in your tableau, you loose. The more card you get into your tableau the better. Also Why do you not start with 10 cards? We always draw 2 cards repeadetly until you have 10. There is NO reason not to do so. 😅 because you need the cards in the long run ANYWAY.

@amchasteenable 8 месяцев назад

Great review!

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoyed it

@peterbelcher-truss569 6 месяцев назад

I enjoyed my first play and am glad i bought it. Scoring is a bit funky but i dont mind it. Im actually colour blind and get close colours confused, however i didnt have any problems with this game 🤷‍♂️ my only real gripe is that its something of a table hog once you reach the end of the game.

@_Venom_77 7 месяцев назад

While i still agree that wolves + deers are the strongest combo, some cards are under rated like for example European hare : you get one point per European hare that you have per card that means that if you have : - 1 : 1 pt - 2 : 2 x 2 = 4 pts - 3 : 3 x 3 = 9 pts ... - 11 (number of Hare in the game) : 121 pts If you also combine them with "Silver fir" you get 2 more pts per Hare, same thing with foxes. If you have a mole in your cards it can be perfect so you can place more than one per turn. Birds can be good also if you have the good conditions for example "great spotted woodpecker" will allow you to score 10 pts if no other forest have more trees than yours combined with "hawk" it will score 13pts. Also mosquitos are very good cards if you have bats. I managed to beat once deers + wolves combos using only rabbits, birds, mosquitos and bats. i had no fern and almost no amphibiens.

@TheBrokenMeeple 7 месяцев назад

rabbits are pretty cool and birds can rack up if you get the compounders, but the chances of grabbing 11 hares is somewhat slim. You don't need that many deers/wolves to cause combos to appear.

@chriswoosley4525 6 месяцев назад

Great review. I bought on a whim, played twice, sold it. Pretty much becaues of scoring and huge play area it requires.

@rudyjansen4242 8 месяцев назад

Thanks for your honest opinion, appreciate it!

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Always!

@kungpow108 8 месяцев назад

Finally a reviewer who explains the cons that I thought. Everyone seems to have great praise. The game's pacing is poor and feels like it should have ended when the 2nd winter card comes out instead of 3rd. Our sides were just covered with 10 different trees and ton of animals. Kind of just lost interest in what card I wanted. Also, the scoring does seem so tedious in person. Way too fiddly to be worth it. Someone compared it to Race for the Galaxy, but race is way more streamlined than forest shuffle, besides the rough iconography.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Other reviewers are just ignoring the cons I feel, they are staring people in the face and yet just ignored.

@RedBird77 8 месяцев назад

Thank you for saving me some money great stuff!

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Happy to help!

@glennwilson3045 6 месяцев назад

Thanks for the review, Luke. Unfortunately my wife had already bought me this for Xmas. We haven’t played it yet and I just glanced at the appendix and thought, how am I going to explain all this to her! (I always have to explain the rules). Alas, it looks interesting and seems different to other card games we’ve got. Really enjoy your channel. Cheers

@TheBrokenMeeple 6 месяцев назад

Thank you!

@robertshashy5964 7 месяцев назад

Thank you for this review. I appreciate that you go into the overall experience of the game, and not just what it's like to play. I was really on the fence on this one, and I think I will just keep enjoying Sea Salt and Paper instead of buying this one.

@TheBrokenMeeple 7 месяцев назад

Glad I could help! Telling it how it is. I feel other critics are being WAY too forgiving of the game imbalance.

@MJGOLDHEART 8 месяцев назад

I agree about the scoring 😬 it is a nightmare!

@Abe_1861 6 месяцев назад

Hahahaha. People told me the cave doesn’t work. I used a mushroom/cave strategy and destroyed everyone at the table. I honestly didn’t feel as annoyed as you did during scoring; plenty of other games with scoring that’s just as long-winded. TBH I quite liked the game, but I’d rather just play RftG.

@TheBrokenMeeple 6 месяцев назад

Other games usually structure their scoring piece by piece, this has too many interlinking scoring parts and a god awful score pad. Also why did they not just grab deers/wolves 😏

@Abe_1861 6 месяцев назад

@@TheBrokenMeeple LOL. The person who taught us the game did just that... and lost. The mushrooms (chanterelles?) helped my draw power and I was able to get bears and a lot of cards in my cave. I was also able to get quite a few trees. I love your reviews, but just happen to disagree with you on this one. TBF to forest shuffle, a lot of games are AP prone (some more than others, looking at you Mask Trilogy). And EVERY game can be AP prone if you’re playing with that player who likes to take their time. And saying a game flows better on BGA is a bit unfair as MOST card games flow better in their digital version. After playing Through the Ages digitally, I never really went back to the analog version. (Why spend 3+ hours when I can spend 30 minutes?) I would agree though that I’d rather play FS on BGA, but I wouldn’t mind playing it in person.

@TheBrokenMeeple 6 месяцев назад

@@Abe_1861 Some games don't make much difference on or off the net, but forest with its mass scoring at the end certainly does.

@axétério 5 месяцев назад

Agree with scoring and balance, within a few turns one can quickly see the couple scoring methods that score HUGE pts and the rest are too small to need focus. Even months later I agree that I don’t see anyone mention balance and scoring let alone how long the game can take. Overstay its welcome is perfect way to describe it

@wiblick 8 месяцев назад

Solid review. I still might chance it for solo. Will rely on BGG to give me a mode. But mostly because it’s pretty.

@vivienlehnig4646 8 месяцев назад

THANK YOU! I'm baffled that so many youtubers and players just ignoring the balancing issues. That's a crucial thing for a game like this imo. But there's still people out there saying it's balanced or not a problem, "you just need the right counterstrategy" which they can somehow never tell me, just some vague muttering. That aside, I still like to play it and counting hasnt been too hard for my partner and me, but I definitely see that point too. I really hope they gonna fix the balancing issues even if it'd mean to paste some things up. Otherwise I'm not sure if it will survive despite being fun for us now.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

People will work so hard to defend what they enjoy without considering the full facts. Many RU-vidrs also want to please the publishers as much as possible.

@Marcos-un2bw 18 дней назад

Great review Brasil love this game. We need creativity abou fix

@seraphiccandy21 12 дней назад

The expansion doesn''t do much to help the deer/wolf problem. Personally I always play with the wolves removed but even then the deer are OP

@wheelskis 8 месяцев назад

Played my first game with my partner. You're right about scoring, but I am not sold about the wolf/deer strat. It is certainly lucrative, but I need more plays. Our score was 244 to 231. My partner only had one deer and two lynxes that score for deer. I had five deer and two wolves, amassing to about 100 points between them, but our scores still remained close. In our second play I had two deer and two wolves, but scored 276. My partner had about the same amount of wolves/deer and scored 226. Some cards seem to have more potential than others, but I am trying different card combos all in the approach of what is most optimal at that time mixed with planning and playing cards that synergize. What are people's max scores? I am curious to see what averages are like. Are others finding that there is one clear winning strat with scores to back it up? Of course, opponent decision making is relevant, and some might be playing against people who are denying them cards by playing certain cards themselves or not pitching them to the clearing. Overall, I'm enjoying the game so far. Thank you for your honest reviews!

@TheBrokenMeeple 7 месяцев назад

If I'm using full trees or deers/wolves I'm easily breaking 250-350. - people are just being forgiving or don't like to mention game balance in reviews period.

@jillianm1781 8 месяцев назад

I almost bought that. Had it in my cart, then saw this video and said..... well... never mind! I have Ecosystem from from genius game and love that one... so that will scratch this itch for me!

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Just in time!!

@twinkle04evr 8 месяцев назад

Thanks for your honest review, which will prevent people from buying the wrong games.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

You and they are most welcome! 😁

@jessewieman6955 7 месяцев назад

I appreciate you pulling away from the hype train on this. I think it’s best at 2 with some additional cards removed. Like 50 total instead of 30 in a two player game. Much quicker and some of the dominate strategies need to be assembled faster

@elainetyger 8 месяцев назад

Thanks for the review. I will absolutely try this on board game arena the next chance I get. The scoring doesn't bother me; I already know that you don't like some of my favorite games because of the tedious scoring, whereas I don't mind it. Case in point: bunny kingdom. The similarities of colors is a problem, as is the type size. If the game is cheap though, and the box is not too big or heavy, then I will get it when I see it. If I teach it, I will mention that collections are hard to do and that trees wolves and deer are maybe more boring but the way to get points. Do the cards show the percentage of cards in the deck with the things you need for the collection, like earth and wingspan cards do?

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

No they don't at all.

@Aaackermann 8 месяцев назад

There are numbers next to the cardnames showing how many are in the deck.

@guimauve-rose 8 месяцев назад

I played on BGA and still didn't find it really good, the idea is good, but as you said, some combo are better than other so you don't really have a choice if you want to score higher. The other things that i didn't like is how slow it is, either you draw or you play...yes you can draw if you do nice combo but sometimes you will draw 2 times in a row because you don't have what you need...anyway, i don't think it's very fun but frustrating.

@read2shadow 8 месяцев назад

Thanks a bunch for pointing out those problems! I was about to blind order this, based just on loads of super positive reviews. I'll skip for now. I might try it on BGA, though.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Yeah give it a go on bga as honestly that's the best format for it

@GGdeTOURS37 8 месяцев назад

Completely agree with you. We won't play it again in live and will sell it back!

@peterbubla4704 8 месяцев назад

I agree with most of your thoughts, but despite its flaws this game is still a 9/10 for me. The balance is questionable, sure. I don't mind the strong combos, but wish there would be less underwhelming creatures, well at least I can use them as payment. My main concern with it is the tedious scoring, but I will fix it ( mostly) with a custom scoring pad if nothing else. Despite everything during the game I'm having a ton of fun. I like it more than Earth for sure, that game has no soul, every card is samey, and I never get excited about a single card there.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

A 9 despite those problems?

@JesusIsTruthAndWayAndLife 6 месяцев назад

I played this game on BGA and after few plays immediately saw flaws with scoring, sudden ending, symbols and weird strategy options, where not all felt equal from effort and luck point of view. I give this game 7 just because I like theme, art and basic mechanisms, but that's only for digital game in BGA. I think designers with publishers should fix those issues and make completely new edition for this game with new rules. Basically fix the game, which has large potential. I wish them good luck. This is good review, while Dice Tower guys probably didn't test this game enough. I feel they have so many games they just lack time for each one. 🙂

@TheBrokenMeeple 6 месяцев назад

Pretty confident on that, I mean the sheer number of reviews they pump out, sometimes on games no-one gives a crap about, there's no way you can spend enough time on each one. I think that's why they get 3-4 people per review, so it's like playing a game 4-8 times but split between 3-4 people so probably about 2 times each.

@ralfn9629 8 месяцев назад

Hi Luke, what a useful review for me. Thank you so much. When I watched it on other channels, I thought it was an absolute immediate buy for me. And believe or not - I was thinking about you and what you would make of it, knowing your love and recommendation for Canopy (which I bought and love and now also backed the new one because of your contents). So, maybe I should wait for Forest Shuffle 2-point o.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

I doubt it will appear but yeah this game disappointed me. It could have been amazing but in its slightly broken state. I can't keep it.

@edwardbrost331 5 месяцев назад

Maybe if you were an accountant, the scoring would be easier. 😂

@TheBrokenMeeple 5 месяцев назад

Honestly, no it's fiddly regardless.

@guandjs 8 месяцев назад

Thanks for your insightful review. I enjoyed my couple of plays on BGA and was looking forward to getting it but I worried about scoring and balance. I think your comments confirmed my fears about whether I would actually get it out much. I don’t need another games just sitting on my shelf. Cheers.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Glad I could help!

@OlegKlishinArt 8 месяцев назад

Hmm, I reckoned you'd like this one. Played it myself on BGA and moderately enjoyed it. Cool streamlined little game. But I admit, based on your complaints I don't think I want to play this in paper. Regarding balance issues, aren't these casual games supossed to be loose and swingy? I remember Wingspan had a lot of critisisms regarding luck and broken cards. I supposed it's just a feature of family games that are designed to bring excitement from collecting rare cards and such, and not dry calculations and strategy threads.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

I don't notice it as much in Wingspan as there are so many cards. But here there is only so many and the garbage cards stand out more.

@shatnershairpiece 8 месяцев назад

Be sure to keep us updated on how your non plastic cards fall apart. They claim ‘environment friendly’, made the cards cheap, and they will chip fast. you’re gonna have to sleeve every one of them which completely negates their claim of environment friendly’

@L.2003.YamiSukehiro 7 месяцев назад

On boardgamearena we are at 130,000 games played and the number will continue to rise. The publishers therefore have solid statistics in hand. We will see if a second edition of the game will have any changes (butterflies for example are challenging to play effectively [you have to have hedgehogs and the right birds and maybe play butterflies with the mole], from a thematic point of view we are talking about fragile animals anyway, so the fact that they are difficult to play well, fits, in my opinion). The ungulates-wolves combo is certainly strong. From a thematic point of view, the red deer is the king of the forest and the wolf is at the top of the food chain. So I consider it right and thematically appropriate to have made these animals remunerative. Is it the strongest combo ever? Personally, I don't think so. There are other combos that are just as strong, in my opinion. Amphibians and ants, hares and foxes, trees and roe deer with lynxes, tree varieties with red deer. Then, there are animals that can come in handy regardless, such as the mole (to play hares, toads, birches, or at the end of the game to turn the situation around), the raccoon (if the cards you have in your hand are not nice, or if you don't want to give nice cards to your opponents), the owl (to get three cards), the jay (to score three points and have another turn available), etc. In short, in my opinion the game is beautiful and varied. P.S.: The calculator was not invented for nothing. Are there really still people who calculate points mentally?! I always pull out my mobile phone (no matter what game I play) and calculate the points without any problems.

@TheBrokenMeeple 7 месяцев назад

I'll bet a million bucks the "thematic ties" you mention were NOT in the designers mind when making this game, I feel you've added that in. As for the combos, trees or deers/wolves have won the vast majority of games easily so far. Hopefully a 2nd edition will come out and they can fix the balance issues because if so, the game could shoot up a lot as a result. Currently it's just off putting knowing I'll aim for the same thing. Also it's not people adding up in their heads, it's the sheer amount of "different" bits you have to collate and add together - one minute you need to count how many of X you have, next you have to check how many unique of Y you have, next you need to ask if you have more of Z then your opponent, it's fiddly as hell outside of BGA.

@stevef3663 6 месяцев назад

Lots of early very positive reviews. So much that I paused. A game that gets this much hype is an auto Wait & See for me. It didn't take too much digging to see unbalancing issues appear. Also, the scoring chore. With so many board games available and the fact our collection is the right size already means it takes a pretty good game to make the cut for us. This one won't. Even when it goes on sale for 13 ish dollars.

@TheBrokenMeeple 6 месяцев назад

Unless they fix the balancing issue I don't recommend it.

@gailwondowski3207 8 месяцев назад

I keep watching reviews on this because everyone loves it & I feel like I must be missing something, but it just didn’t seem like a buy for me. I’m glad to finally hear some criticism so I can officially say no to it & stop thinking about it!

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Everyone else just wants to please the publisher and say only nice things about everything. I tell it how it is and this game blatantly has issues.

@gailwondowski3207 8 месяцев назад

@@TheBrokenMeeple I don’t think other reviewers are trying to flatter the publishers. They each have their own way of not saying overly negative things. But I do appreciate your directness. Sometimes I disagree with you completely, but I still like to hear your perspective because it gives me another side. Thank you for all your hard work on this channel! It’s definitely my favorite.

@jonathanleach383 6 месяцев назад

the scoring is the worst ive ever seen in a game honestly unforgivable

@tuntemon 8 месяцев назад

I wish this went live a few days earlier! I've just purchased it and gonna pick it up during the weekend. Let's just hope then that my group enjoys it more than what you did. That scoring part sounded pretty rough I must admit.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

So many games to get reviewed solo 😵‍💫

@Platonick66 8 месяцев назад

Luke we don't always see eye to eye on games, I think that is the way it should be - horses for courses - I am so glad that you offer a justifiable contrast to the Dice Tower, that is a shocking lack of critical apparatus applied. We are so sad about this game as the first few plays just got better and better as we explored the various strategies and employed the adage 'trust the designer' and then we realized the hideous balance issues that destroy this game. At one stage it was a '9' for us and I actually think your score is a bit on the generous side because despite all the lovely things that drew us in the balance makes it a 2 or 3 because we just won't play it. A couple of points to balance your video though - we have only played at 2 or 3 and found the play time super quick especially at three - easily under 30 minutes at both player counts with no reason to play at higher. The other point is the scoring, I actually quite enjoy it, we go around the table and gather each scoring area one at a time and you then get a chance to see how other people's strategies have worked out - this is actually interesting and doesn't take any more than 5 minutes.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Probably is on the generous side! But I agree, people are just ignoring the blatant facts in front of them.

@santeeblack3580 6 месяцев назад

The GF and i played it 1st game we had scores of 200-300.. second game i got 560.. we where gonna show it to light-er gamers , but we cant introduce people to a game and trounce them with doubled scores...

@TheBrokenMeeple 6 месяцев назад

Hold up 560? how is that even possible. You sure that was correct?

@ceciliamorningofmylife1137 8 месяцев назад

Thank you for your honest opinion! Got me to reconsider the game, complicate point counting is such a game killer.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

Glad I could provide consumer advice .

@Golden_Mustang 8 месяцев назад

I've played this solely on BGA and I'm finding, like you and others, that some combos are more effective than others. This is a game I'll continue to play on BGA, but I won't ever buy it.

@asqik 8 месяцев назад

Played on BGA, dont get the hype, this game is so average it hurts to play

@kiddota 8 месяцев назад

I would argue that there is not a single card in this game that isn’t worth playing. You mentioned butterflies, I’d say get them all out at once with a mole and use them to fill up your trees for massive points with the martens. And any of the low points, 0 cost cards get a lot better when you have a mushroom that grants card draw when playing them. Yes, deer and wolves are an easy way to get points. That‘s the meat and potatoes of the game. But if you have experienced players, everyone around the table will know this and will play accordingly. So either everyone will try to collect them, significantly reducing their worth. Or everyone will try to get rid of them. Especially in a 2 player game the great mechanic of the clearing and when it gets discarded is a very appealing tactical component. Calling the game broken is absolutely missing the mark.

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

You're assuming that everyone playing this game has full knowledge of all the cards and knows about the power of deer and wolves. This is not a game that will have the same people playing all the time and if you have to tell people "don't let someone get these" that by its very nature makes it too powerful. No one says, "don't let him get all the butterflies". Also in a 2-3 player game there are too many cards for players to stop someone getting what they need, especially in two player. And using a mole with five butterflies, that's an insane combo to set up in advance. Deers and wolves work by themselves they don't need mushrooms in advance or other cards to boost them. You're welcome to butterflies and moles but I'm winning with my deers and tree spam.

@kiddota 8 месяцев назад

@@TheBrokenMeeple You don't set up those combos in advance. You see them and make use of them when you get the chance. As is usual with games like this, you play tactically and responsive to what you are dealt. And I don't understand the point in your first paragraph. Is it a game's problem when more advanced players win against newbies? How is this broken?

@collinvickers2345 3 месяца назад

Come on, man. The scoring isn't that bad. Have a beer and chill.

@TheBrokenMeeple 3 месяца назад

It is multiple steps, some of which have multiple steps and the score pad provides is woeful. This isn't a solo opinion either.

@dangerousbeans2907 6 месяцев назад

It’s never taken me more than 3 minutes to score any game of this. It’s not that bad. The balance is atrocious though. Kinda unforgivable really. Why would they design a game like that? Quite frustrating, I like the game but I’m done with it.

@kishorepurohit8010 8 месяцев назад

Kosch is a good upcoming designer - His earlier game Fyfe is really good but underrated…. I agree with your review about this game… The art work is really good but the game is imbalance and the scoring is really complicated…. But even Dr. Knizia has created games which are not up to the mark but some of his games are classic hits… I feel Kosch have the required qualities to be a top designer…. I love his earlier game FYFE and wish him luck for the future….

@LaraBlancoSantos 8 месяцев назад

you’re so whiny lol so many games have long and messy scorings.. not that big of a deal, part of the fun

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

How is admin fun? And yes many games have long winded scoring and it's never fun in any of those cases. Why do you think people love BGA for doing it quickly.

@LaraBlancoSantos 8 месяцев назад

I enjoy the suspense of adding points step by step and see who is on the lead xD but yeah I agree, BGA is handy, no room for errors

@marekbugiel6893 2 месяца назад

It's extremely hard to agree with some things you say. Tell me which game does not take longer to play when you play with bigger player count. Hardly a criticism. Same goes for saying that game is random. It's a card game, most of them are. Regarding the scoring, isn't that getting easier with more plays? I appreciate your honesty, bo some if the things you say here can be said about every game that plays with cards.

@TheBrokenMeeple 2 месяца назад

It's always time consuming and fiddly scoring in all games, bare in mind not every player knows the game in each session so someone is going to struggle scoring all their own cards. And it's not acceptable for any game to go too ridiculous with the scoring aspect. And I'm afraid you misunderstand totally on the length front. It's not saying that the game gets longer with more players, that's obvious, it's that it outstays its welcome at more players. Games can have 5 players and still be nice and short (i.e. The Crew) or keep to a similar time frame (i.e. Broom Service or 7 Wonders). However Forest Shuffle's time length increases significantly with more players and gets past the point where the game length is justified given the relative simplicity of this game. 4-5 players is typically that break point, whereas 3 players is satisfactory enough. Much of this is because the game is played in turns, not simultaneously.

@grahamperkins3994 4 месяца назад

Why oh Why are people surprised that luck is a factor in most games? if you play with cards that are shuffled, dice that are thrown, luck is a factor, stop screaming and crying about it, if you don't like luck, play chess or a similar game and stop whining!

@TheBrokenMeeple 4 месяца назад

Because the game isn't balanced enough to warrant the luck. Nor is it particularly short when involving a lot of players.

@paulhamrick3943 8 месяцев назад

I think all games should be rated according to the best player count. Docking a game for not being great at 5 when that is 2 over the ideal player count seems like…. maybe you’re the problem?

@TheBrokenMeeple 8 месяцев назад

You assume that it loses a point solely for that which isn't the case. What it loses the point for is that player scaling is bad in general. You can play from 2-5 yet the best and prob only good count is 3 players to mitigate the horrible balance issues. That in itself is poor player scaling and worth docking it. People don't buy games on the expectation that they will only play it at one player count. And many reviewers mainly play games at two players so they can only really rate a game based on a single player count to be frank. So no, in no circumstances should a game only be rated on best player count. But that's why at the end I give ratings for each player count to show how it can vary.

@JMS1138 6 месяцев назад

I normally love your reviews. I think you missed the mark on this game. It's simple fun and joyful to play. Yes I'd never play it with 5 people or ap prone people but that is every euro game ever. Never play at max count. The scoring is simple , we have calculators on phones for a reason. Yes the colors are bad but the icons are easy to read even with my bifocal needing eyes. Hope you had some cheese for all that whine p.

@TheBrokenMeeple 6 месяцев назад

I notice you conveniently left out any mention of the unbalanced scoring methods in the game 😏 The game doesn't scale well regardless. At lower counts, the imbalanced problem becomes major. At high counts the game drags on and becomes chaotic as hell. Yes the colours are bad. That's not something to gloss over. The icons are tiny and buried within a lot of eye distracting art and other icons. There's wasted space there which could have enlarged to make it easier and more accessible. So you assume every player who plays the game will have their smartphone handy with calculator at the ready? What about someone's parents who don't use tech much? Or younger children? And even then you have all sorts of scoring interlinking which makes it a chore.

@JMS1138 6 месяцев назад

I appreciate your viewpoint but every euro involves math and adding points and this game is no different. It's not asking you to solve a differential equation. You are being overly harsh on what is an excellent light euro with an amazing environmental approach to production. I don't think there is any unbalanced scoring method. Yes, it is safe to assume anyone I'm playing this game with will have a smartphone ready whether that is my 10-year-old niece or my 96-year-old grandma.@@TheBrokenMeeple