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Forget Bernoulli and Newton | The easy way to explain lift 

Fly with Magnar
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It can be a challenge to explain lift in an easy way without getting the realities wrong. Here’s how experts in aerodynamics prefer to explain lift for laymen.
Note: The first video I made is removed because it contains some errors.
Attributions:
How do wings work? Holger Babinsky: iopscience.iop.org/article/10...
Wind tunnel, Holger Babinsky: • Wing lift Holger Babinsky
Lecture by Holger Babinsky: • Lift - Prof. Holger Ba...
Lecture by Krzysztof Fidkowski: • Krzysztof Fidkowski | ...
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21 сен 2021

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Комментарии : 184   
@notjackschannel5380
@notjackschannel5380 2 года назад
It’s such a pleasure to see someone admit that their previous knowledge was incorrect and unabashedly correct themselves when presented with better information. And THAT is what makes you a true scholar. Well done, please keep these videos coming 👍🏼
@zooknz1711
@zooknz1711 Год назад
Could not agree more. Well done Magnar
@77thTrombone
@77thTrombone Год назад
Not necessarily a scholar, but a man of honor. 3 words that are hardest for men to say: -I love you.- I was wrong.
@michaelhoffmann2891
@michaelhoffmann2891 Год назад
I was fortunate to have flight instructors who gave me excellent rules of thumb with a certain amount of humour: "take 2 parts of Bernoulli, 1 part of Newton. Some times it's the other way around" - followed by going inverted in an aerobatics plane. 😆 That has always worked for me. Once I stopped screaming. 🤣 (no, I didn't really scream, I loved it!)
@77thTrombone
@77thTrombone Год назад
Lesson: there are times/places for perfectionism, and times/places for pragmatism. Also: Your inner Mikey was screaming with delight, I bet.
@realvanman1
@realvanman1 Год назад
I find the explanation in the beginning to be the best. A wing encountering still air takes that air and moves it from a higher place to a lower place. That requires a force. The equal and opposite force is the lift.
@timknight5105
@timknight5105 9 месяцев назад
It's refreshing to see someone admit their earlier work was not correct and then come on here to correct. Big respect! And thanks for the clarification!
@josteineide7285
@josteineide7285 2 года назад
Hei Magnar, Quite an improvement which I can follow nearly to the end. There is still a confusion re Bernoulli's. We must not forget about viscosity, bounder layer, energy, Joule Thomsen, and more Bernoulli's is valid along a single streamline. Many professors over the years have differences in understanding and explanations. The sum of it all is quite up to what I learned taking my engineering degree in 1979. We must integrate the work done (Newton) by deflecting a mass of air, a fluid, The equilibrium sum equals that halves of the lift comes from the upward deflection up front of the wing, the other halve from the deflected air leaving the trailing edge, i.e. the "vast" the energy is picked out, no more to gain from it. The pressure and temperature changes involved in the process can not pr Bernoulli's definition directly be linked to the process. No fluid likes to be disturbed, moving it is a mass that are to be moved and needs energy. The viscosity forces keep the fluid together which also needs energy to overcome. This in total can be linked to Newton. The rest of what happens are in many ways side effects. Stretching and compressing the fluid while we are moving the mass around. Air has mass as everything else trying to move it around, accelerate it demands energy / forces. 1 kg of air or 1 kg of steel is no difference F=m*a. Except viscosity compressibility etc. Air will by this be more "soft" to move around, like suspended by a rubber band, similar as if the 1 kg of steel was suspended by a rubber band. You can not simply always say Ps1+Pd1= Ps2+Pd2. You can have different velocities but the pressure remains the same. As you demonstrate by blowing down your strait henging papir sheet, flowing air at one side, no flow at the other side of the papir sheet. Pretty presise metering instrument are in use which utilize the effect of Bernoulli's. Venturi Orifice plate, V-cone. Static pressure drop while the flow velocity increase. Rule of tumb pressure drop equals the differences i pipe diameters d/D which are named the beta value, +discharge coefficient adjustments. There is no beta value in free space around an airplane it becomes infinite. A curiosity from the old faction explanation of lift and Bernoulli's you can not split a venturi i halve and say you have "the upper surface" of a wing.
@user-ot8sy2im1t
@user-ot8sy2im1t Год назад
This comment is a little hard to follow, but I agree with the fact that, "You can have different velocities but the pressure remains the same." There must be a cause-effect relationship between pressure and velocity that is not discussed in this video. I also agree that external flow does not behave like a Venturi. Additionally, the paper experiment involves a jet stream of air, which is not representative of real flow over an airfoil.
@josteineide7285
@josteineide7285 2 года назад
short add. We must consider what comes first, pressure changes or mass deflection?. Our first action is initiated by moving / displacing the mass package. Than by the inertia, the compressibility and viscosity, i.e. stretching of the rubber band comes the changes in pressure and the adiabatic temperatur changes. A continuous process.
@petep.2092
@petep.2092 7 месяцев назад
What causes the displacement of the mass package?
@ATINKERER
@ATINKERER 10 месяцев назад
I'll have to watch this a few more times to understand that A, B, C, & D thing. Thank you for the lesson!
@Hopeless_and_Forlorn
@Hopeless_and_Forlorn Год назад
Look at the larger picture and lessen the confusion: a heavier than air aircraft can sustain itself in flight ONLY by accelerating a mass of air downward with sufficient force to counter the force of gravity. Regardless of what goes on on the top or bottom of the wing, or on any other aerodynamic surface, the net effect of the interaction must be that air is accelerated downward, or the aircraft will fall toward the ground. Hope this helps.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
Yes, that is true, but the acceleration happens over the curved leading edge and upper surface of the wing.
@grejen711
@grejen711 Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar And that affects it's behavior at specific angles of attack and makes it less draggy (more efficient) but it does not change what is happening. Air is shoved up against a surface of an objected being shoved through the air. The object is getting pushed by the air as it moves past. Even if the leading edge and upper surface of a 'wing' is not curved at all it still gets forced around by the air moving past it. If you're careful you can direct that force against gravity and call it lift. The curves just make it easier to control.
@mountainflyhigh
@mountainflyhigh Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar - Almost all of the downward force is produced on the bottom and at the trailing edge of a wing. Just look at any wind-tunnel with smoke video. Equal and opposite reaction of a mass.
@RaviKumar-sn2lx
@RaviKumar-sn2lx Год назад
I learnt a lot from both the videos. Thank you, Sir.
@Pakshya
@Pakshya Год назад
Great job explaining lift that too in simple words!! From your previous video I first learned that what I had learned about lift was wrong, and from this video I learned the correct explanation for lift!! 👍
@aardvark2zz
@aardvark2zz 22 дня назад
There are problems with this at 5:00 . The forces at B and C are opposite at the leading and trailing tips due to inverted curvature thus cancelling total lift. At the tips the lift cancels the lift at the center. This can also be seen by the lack of downward airflow on the right outgoing side when compared to the incoming left side. No total downward flow, no total lift !
@XPLAlN
@XPLAlN 3 дня назад
The pressure at B is less than at C. That is the point. Pressure above is lower than pressure underneath. They are not equal in magnitude therefore they do not cancel. There is a downwash off the trailing edge. There is an upwash at the leading edge. Therefore, the flow is turned from upward to downward as it passes across the airfoil. The upwash has a positive vertical speed, the downwash has a negative vertical speed. The change in vertical speed times the mass flow rate is the momentum change of the air. The lift is equal and opposite to that by Newton’s 3rd law. The diagram is not a faithful representation of real airflow but it does serve to demonstrate certain key concepts.
@bobstroud9118
@bobstroud9118 Год назад
From ‘Stick and Rudder’. It’s all about angle of attack to the relative wind.
@SoloRenegade
@SoloRenegade 25 дней назад
Stick and Rudder is a Great book, but it gets a bunch of things wrong too, given how old that book is and how little was understood about certain concepts it's to be expected.
@larrye2679
@larrye2679 8 месяцев назад
Really enjoyed the video. For us laymen who are not versed in higher mathematics it really helps. Do you also have a video like this that explains the other forces on an airplane such as thrust and drag, etc. Thank you😊
@PatrickJWenzel
@PatrickJWenzel 2 года назад
Aaahhhh, finally the truth, and guidance on how to explain it correctly. Thank you!
@josephcameron530
@josephcameron530 Год назад
Excellent information.
@jelisontejada1758
@jelisontejada1758 2 года назад
Great explanation 👍👍
@rv6amark
@rv6amark 10 месяцев назад
Another wonderful video. As I said in my comment to that video, my college professor would be proud of your explanations.
@alexkuiper1096
@alexkuiper1096 Год назад
really interesting -many thanks
@williamwightman8409
@williamwightman8409 9 месяцев назад
I was waiting to see F=ma and it finally was presented. Like everywhere else you have to do work on a fluid mass within a period of time and out of that you get a lifting force vector (minus all the losses). Thanks for the nicely done explanation.
@kfcmcdonalds
@kfcmcdonalds 8 месяцев назад
But its wrong ... still atmosphere has no momentum.
@Tikcreation
@Tikcreation Год назад
I learn so many things ....thank you 💎 gem❤️
@DavidTaylor-es1bt
@DavidTaylor-es1bt 9 месяцев назад
I like both videos. I had given "lift" some thought before. There are many questions in Physics that can be analysed in multiple ways. For instance, you can't make a paper thin wing. It would have no strength. But the airfoil shape has a cross section known to minimize drag and can be designed to have some strength. You can make it curved and adjust the angle of attack such that it accelerates air with a downward component. F=ma will give a value for lift. If you consider the individual molecules and their average velocity, then when air is moving, molecules will impact preferentially in the direction of flow and simultaneously have less of their velocity perpendicular to their motion. That would be a way to explain what is at the root of Bernouli's principle. And from there, proceed with the rest. So what a lot of Physics amount to is rules that we expect to hold, when applied correctly. And we use them to disprove errors in our understanding and hopefully get clues to better insights.
@yochanan7747
@yochanan7747 2 года назад
Great vdeo! thanks!
@reyadv160
@reyadv160 4 месяца назад
Wow i love this...thank you sir
@yl9154
@yl9154 Год назад
Thank you!
@dukeluisf15
@dukeluisf15 Месяц назад
Your video should have more views, my aeronautics bachelors degree don´t understand this, and many of the faults are the FAA and his technical publications
@mconnah1
@mconnah1 Год назад
So many interesting comments here! I think it deserves a video on how the pressure explanation is valid with a flat sheet style wing. Which certainly flies. When I was taught aerodynamics for my pilots exam, I was told that Newtonian forces made up 70% of lift, with rest being Bernoulli forces…
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
A flat sheet style wing can fly. At least, it works for model aircraft with light structure (paper, foam or balsa) and and a relatively large wing area. But it cannot be scaled up. And aerodynamically, it's very inefficient. The idea that Newton is 70% of the lift and Bernoulli contributes to the rest is flawed. Lift is based on the preservation of mass, momentum and energy. Newton's laws of motion is preservation of momentum. Bernoulli's principle is preservation of energy. This video explains it in more detail: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html
@pompeymonkey3271
@pompeymonkey3271 Год назад
To me, the aerofoil can also be thought of as the most efficient shape required at the chosen AoA. Certainly your description of airliner wing profiles fits this logic?
@ronaldgustafson3073
@ronaldgustafson3073 Год назад
The diagram at 5:37 illustrates two-dimensional flow (i.e., infinite wingspan or a wing that goes from one wall of the wind tunnel to the other wall - no wing tips). We operate in three-dimensions (with a finite wingspan) which produces wing tip vortices, downwash, and lift (by imparting downward velocity to a large air mass).
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
A video about 3D lift is in the making.
@petep.2092
@petep.2092 7 месяцев назад
The explanation that the vortices off the wing tips create the downwash which creates the reaction force called lift… is a plausible but erroneous explanation. If it were true, gliders with very long wingspans would have to produce enormous vortices to deflect the air downwards all along the wingspan.
@BIG-DIPPER-56
@BIG-DIPPER-56 Год назад
Very Good - Thank You ! ! 🙂😎👍
@crimony3054
@crimony3054 Год назад
3:00 you can see in one instance he holds the paper correctly with an airfoil in it to show Bernoulli working. Then he holds the paper with a tension crease in it to show Bernoulli not working. The fact is that if you use a fair test, the paper responds as expected. I've seen this more than once, and I can't decide if those who do it are just ignorant or deceptive.
@petep.2092
@petep.2092 7 месяцев назад
Tension crease? Have you tried it yourself? What would be a fair test? He was demonstrating that airflow over a curved surface causes a force in the outward direction of the radius of the curve. He didn't really explain why… "there must be a force" is not an explanation. But he DID show that lift is created when the surface is curved. It is validated by the curved upper surfaces of wings, which are curved further to increase the lift. His demonstration serves to counter the explanation that lift is mainly the air hitting the bottom surface that pushes the wing up. If that were true, a wing wouldn't stall at about 20° angle of attack.
@dhy5342
@dhy5342 9 месяцев назад
The confusion in the minds of many is in the word LIFT. Showing the high-speed/low-pressure airflow above the wing makes one think that the low pressure is lifting the airfoil when in fact, it's the higher pressure below the wing that is pushing the airfoil upward. Low pressure doesn't pull; high pressure pushes and symmetrical airfoils work just fine as long as the angle of attack is positive.
@dazknight9326
@dazknight9326 Год назад
The Bernoulli principle applied to the prop is that the force going on downward side has more speed that the side going up basically, P factor in making the plane want to turn left a little, this down and right thrust is added to the motor. Really a prop provides lift the same way of a wing foil. Easily explained lift is the result of thrust equals Drag, lift equals weight. Speed applied lowers weight value due to less time to react to gravity, and increases lift, air reflected in another direction by a horizontal surface. So airspeed vs the amount of surface defelction, increases lift more and more. Conventional wings of Cessna, Beechcraft, have enough surface, although incrases drag, slower overall cruise, but to me is worth it, compared to more narrow wings needing more speed to stay aloft.
@raymondgoubet
@raymondgoubet Год назад
What about aerobatics aircraft with a symmetrical airfoil wing, same shape under and above the wing? Lift created by AoA only, to push some air down?
@cruxader27
@cruxader27 2 года назад
I remember during my training days in flight school when my instructor asked me to explain how airplanes fly. But the thing is, I would explain it to him as if he's a toddler. That was one of the hardest questions I faced in my life
@dronemonkey2038
@dronemonkey2038 2 года назад
What about angle of attack….What about wings that have no camber? Perhaps a partial explanation in a very good video.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar 2 года назад
The angle of attack is a very important factor for lift. Check out this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-e43l2V_MFIY.html Wings without camber can produce lift. Again, the answer lies in the angle of attack. But a wing without camber will have poor stall characteristics.
@scottriddell7893
@scottriddell7893 Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar All modern aerobatic aircraft have fully symmetric airfoils as do boat keels and rudders. Some have good stall characteristics others not.
@jaromirandel543
@jaromirandel543 2 месяца назад
Hello. Do I understand correctly that the airflow on the top of the wing "follows" its shape, because when trying to "break away" from the wing, a vacuum is created between the airflow and the wing?
@shyam6468
@shyam6468 5 месяцев назад
Can u also explain then why water rises in Venturi effect? When we blow air over the top of U-tube containing water then the pressure at narrow region would be smaller I know but it would be smaller than the pressure compared to WODER REGION OF TUBE ABOVE. Why do we compare it to the air pressure inside the U Tube which I static and say that water will rise up?
@sverigeaao5196
@sverigeaao5196 2 года назад
Hej! Kul initiativ!! Rekommenderade dej i kommentarerna till 3greens videor. Mycket bra australiensare!
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar 2 года назад
Tusen takk!
@DumbledoreMcCracken
@DumbledoreMcCracken 2 года назад
Only need to know three things: the static pressure difference between the top, and bottom, of the wing is what holds up aircraft (dynamic buoyancy); the wing stops flying when the critical angle of attack is exceeded, regardless of airspeed (stall); and a headwind is much more harmful than a tailwind is helpful (fuel starvation).
@Milesco
@Milesco Год назад
If you're taking off or landing, a headwind is much more desirable than a tailwind!
@travisrodricks5965
@travisrodricks5965 Год назад
I have recently started looking more into the understanding of lift. I am not an aircraft designer or engineer but an aircraft pilot and a drone pilot and instructor. While i fully understand your explanation with curved wings, what i am now looking to understand is straight or flat wings, for example a paper rocket or plane. Would be most grateful if anyone could help out. Thanks
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
This video might clarify a few things: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html
@ShadowAlmighty
@ShadowAlmighty 24 дня назад
I am a little confused. At 5:00, you say that the air is compressed as it moves over the curved surface. But if the air is compressed, doesn’t the pressure increase? So then at position B, the air pressure would be higher than at position A? And then you say that the air under the curve shape expands, resulting in a higher pressure. This doesn’t seem to make sense to me. Can you elaborate?
@LordBagdanoff
@LordBagdanoff 2 года назад
Hi Captain, which part of your previous video did you made the error?
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar 2 года назад
First of all, I made it too complicated. And I forgot to tell that the updraft is a result of the angle of attack.
@LordBagdanoff
@LordBagdanoff 2 года назад
@@FlywithMagnar thank you for your reply. Out of topic but what do you think is a good weakness to give for an pilot interview?
@fondueeundof3351
@fondueeundof3351 20 часов назад
3:22 If you hold two sheets of paper vertically with a small gap between them, and you blow air down through the gap, the two sheets will clutch. That's the Bernoulli effect. How come with only one sheet of paper the Bernoulli effect is not observable?
@wbeaty
@wbeaty Год назад
One interesting fact: if parcels are being divided by the leading edge, and if camber and AOA are adjusted in order to cause parcels to recombine at the trailing edge, then this guarantees that the Circulation is zero, and the lift is also zero. So, not only is "Equal Transit Time" a mistaken explanation ...it is also a recipe for attaining EXACTLY zero lifting force! Whenever the "phase-shift" between split parcels at the trailing edge is zero, the lift is also zero.
@jamesmarshall6015
@jamesmarshall6015 Год назад
So if lift is created by the curved flow of air over an aircraft wing, which creates a low pressure area above the wing, how do you explain how a flat-winged aircraft flies? What about a wingless aircraft such as NASAs M2-F1? What about the case of the F-15 jet that landed successfully after one wing was completely torn off in a mid air collision? Lift is being created in multiple ways across multiple parts of an aircraft, including primarily reactions stemming from Newton's Third Law.. Provided the sum of these forces match or exceed the total weight of the aircraft, the aircraft will stay aloft. A typical airfoil shape will maximise efficiency, meaning there is more lift created for a given thrust energy. Curved airfoils do create low pressure areas above the wing, and this adds to total lift, but with sufficient thrust energy an aircraft will fly with completely flat wings or even no wings at all, because sufficient lift is created via the body of the aircraft deflecting air like a stone skimming over the water when thrown at the right angle.
@user-ec6ix9ck2k
@user-ec6ix9ck2k Год назад
Excellent explanation - thank you! When people don't belive that lift is created by a wing pushing air downwards tell them to stand under a hovering helicopter ;)
@petep.2092
@petep.2092 7 месяцев назад
The question is HOW does a wing push air downwards? Saying "there must be circulation" is not an explanation.
@RyanNX211
@RyanNX211 Год назад
Circular airflow and Coanda.
@go737
@go737 Год назад
Magmar i ask you :::victor schauberger implosion technology wat it is ???
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
Schauberger designed a device he called the “Home Power Generator”. By sending either air or water through a spirally coiled channel, the generator should produce a drop in temperature, which would then produce suction, and ultimately, implosion. This should be a source of free energy.
@dronemonkey2038
@dronemonkey2038 2 года назад
Is the low pressure the lift or is it the turning of the airflow downwards? The change of momentum inducing an upward force on the wing. So the change in pressure toward the centre of the curve ensures the flow stays attached.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar 2 года назад
Lift can be described as the difference in air pressure above and below the wing. Lift can also be described as air being pushed down by the wing.
@dronemonkey2038
@dronemonkey2038 2 года назад
@@FlywithMagnar it cannot be both…
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar 2 года назад
To explain lift properly, you need a degree in science. The explanations I am showing here are more like metaphors that can be understood by laymen.
@dronemonkey2038
@dronemonkey2038 2 года назад
No Magnar, you don’t, just a curious mind…and to look in a lot of places. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aa2kBZAoXg0.html
@user-yc7sg7xj4f
@user-yc7sg7xj4f 10 месяцев назад
Lift is created deflecting a fluid mass. Drag and deflection efficiency can be modified by shaping the surface into an "airfoil". Simplez
@henriksegercrantz362
@henriksegercrantz362 Год назад
With an airplane wing the air is not flowing over the shape but the shape is flowing through the air. In a wind tunnel and with a sail, the first is basically true. We talk about two different interactions here.
@ATINKERER
@ATINKERER 10 месяцев назад
I didn't understand your explanation, but I've found a better way for me to understand it. The top of the wing acts like pressure in a large tube entering a narrower section of tube where pressure decreases and the flow is accelerated. The bottom of the wing acts like fast moving air in a narrow section of tube entering a larger section of tube where pressure increases and the flow is decelerated. I would like your evaluation of my understanding of the subject. Am I right?
@petep.2092
@petep.2092 7 месяцев назад
No, sorry. If the air some distance above the wing was considered immovable, then your explanation for what is happening above the wing would be correct. But then when the wing is angled into the wind, the bottom would act the same and pull the wing down! :(
@henrydevelopment
@henrydevelopment Год назад
F=m.a, or F=m.dv/dt; dv is a vector quantity which includes a change in direction, hence lift from curvature. Not the full story, but certainly a significant factor.
@petep.2092
@petep.2092 7 месяцев назад
What obligates the air to follow the curvature?
@grejen711
@grejen711 Год назад
Hmm... I've always found the easiest way to "explain" lift to a lay person (non engineer/aerodynamicist/mathematician) is to have them try to handle a full sheet of plywood in a stiff breeze. Makes it really intuitive, especially if you're standing on a roof at the time. The air has mass. On it's way past objects it pushes them around. Now if you want to start creating a shape that has a particular and specific behavior as it moves through the air... that's more complicated.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
A sheet of plywood held in an angle against the wind is like an airbrake. There's a lot of resistance, but little lift. That's why wings are shaped as they are.
@crimony3054
@crimony3054 Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar Moron. A sheet of plywood is a wing. The air molecules hit against it like ping pong balls and force it in one direction or the other. More efficient wings exist, as early aerospace engineers discovered.
@petep.2092
@petep.2092 7 месяцев назад
@@crimony3054 For being rude, you get to explain… so what makes for a more efficient wing?
@oleringstad6615
@oleringstad6615 Год назад
Helt super forklaring!
@johnspathonis1078
@johnspathonis1078 Год назад
Can you please explain how planes with symetrical wing profiles can fly either right way up or upside down.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
Sure, the answer is to apply a positive angle of attack. Please watch this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html
@redbaron07
@redbaron07 Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar Related, I recall learning somewhere that "the top surface provides 2/3 of the lift, the bottom 1/3, and that is why we hang engines on the underside of wings". That debunks the "air bouncing off the bottom" as the primary origin of lift. Can you explain that with the "curved streamline" model though?
@user-yc7sg7xj4f
@user-yc7sg7xj4f 10 месяцев назад
So put that into reverse: Lift is created by deflecting mass. Drag can be optimised by giving the "flat wing" a profile. A non optimised profile will cause airflow separation and therefore more drag. So keeping the airflow on top of a wing is great to improve lift and reduce drag. Simplez
@hlediks
@hlediks 2 месяца назад
Both Newton and Bernoulli are still lurking there...
@ATINKERER
@ATINKERER 10 месяцев назад
You don't mean that it's all about centrifugal force? I've never heard anyone suggest that centrifugal force is what causes lift.
@jimbo2629
@jimbo2629 Год назад
You say the air speeds up over the convex surface, but why. What is providing the force? Granted if it does speed up, which it does, then the pressure drops. But where is the force causing this acceleration. Your explanation is incomplete.
@crimony3054
@crimony3054 Год назад
It speeds up because the pressure drops. The acceleration/ pressure dynamic is sort of a chicken and egg problem, but prior to the air hitting the leading edge, there is no acceleration. Hence, the pressure drop forces the speed to accelerate. It's like a Venturi, but the top half of the Venturi is composed of air that can't get out of its own way. You have to have a good leading edge design and a high wing velocity in order to make air so resistant that it works like the top half of a Venturi. But with that, some aluminum, kerosene, and human enginuity, you can lift a 747.
@AdairGalloJunior
@AdairGalloJunior Год назад
At 8:28, I think you cannot assume the density of air to be constant. It certainly is a function of velocity (and pressure). Therefore, the equation cannot be integrated without considering density as a function of v. Can someone confirm this?
@AdairGalloJunior
@AdairGalloJunior Год назад
if this was applied to a liquid, I think it would be ok.
@anibal5824
@anibal5824 Год назад
Density can be assumed to be constant up to around mach 0.3, where there is less than 5% difference in desniry due to compressibility. In reality, all flow is compressible and density does vary with mach number, which means that bernoullis equation isn't valid, but its just an idealised scenario.
@JeanLucCoulon
@JeanLucCoulon Год назад
A flat plate in a stream, if it presents an angle with the stream, also generates lift. This explanation, which relies on a curvature, does not allow to explain that.
@mitchellcarroll9075
@mitchellcarroll9075 Год назад
Hello Magnar, I'm a university student in an aeronautics course doing an assignment involving correcting and/or fleshing out explanations for lift. This explanation is excellent and probably the best youtube video I have reviewed for this assignment. I was pleasantly surprised to hear that you actually were informed by Babinsky, one of the academics my class discussed in learning about the intricacies of airfoil lift. I thought your video summarized his paper well and even explained some of his points more clearly and concisely than the paper did. I just wanted to add one or two points to add my knowledge to what you explained in the video. Firstly, I wanted to clarify what the Coanda effect is as the paper is a good demonstration of this but I thought some people could be led slightly astray by its use here. While the pressure gradient caused by the curvature of the air flow does likely contribute some to the observations Coanda made his research was very specifically about powered jet flows attaching to convex surfaces. Unlike in most explanations for lift of an airfoil which ignore viscosity as the bulk of the math on lift still holds even without viscosity, the Coanda effect does critically include viscous effects. The reason this matters is that a powered jet generates a lot of turbulence which mixes and draws in the surrounding air to sustain the flow and as the jet gets closer to a surface it draws out more air than can be replaced generating a vacuum that suck the jet to the surface. This is a similar effect to your description of why airfoils have lower pressure on their upper side but critically different due to the importance of the mixing of air due to viscosity. Secondly, I just wanted to mention as it was a point of emphasis in my education about this, the velocity and pressure should never be treated as a cause and effect, this is not a mistake Magnar made but one that anyone attempting to explain lift correctly should avoid. The pressure and velocity changes happen together, codependently and at the same time, like an ice cube melting and your counter getting wet, they're related but happening at the same time.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
Thank you so much for your feedback. I am humbled. Regarding the relation between velocity and pressure, I learned somehing new! This subject is like discussing who came first; the chicken or the egg. This video received attention from people arguing that a flat wing can fly. So, I made a video addressing just that. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html
@edwardmacnab354
@edwardmacnab354 Год назад
a piece of plywood in a moving airstream will lift if any upward leading edge angle is introduced
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
I have a video about just that: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html
@tyronefrielinghaus3467
@tyronefrielinghaus3467 Год назад
The How do wings work? Holger BabinskI article is behind firewall☹️☹️☹️.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
Email me and I will sent it to you. You'll find my email address in the About secion in my profile.
@tyronefrielinghaus3467
@tyronefrielinghaus3467 Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar thanks ..I ought to have searched first...I've got the pdf now. Great channel btw. I'm on a farm that uses a Grand Caravan for yellow metal parts delivery... so trying to get up to speed with the basics 😊.
@jaromirandel543
@jaromirandel543 2 месяца назад
What if I have symmetric or flat wing? Just like aerobatic aircrafts have?
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar 2 месяца назад
Angle of attack. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html
@jaromirandel543
@jaromirandel543 2 месяца назад
@@FlywithMagnar So is this video appliable to flat wing?
@slevinshafel9395
@slevinshafel9395 Год назад
1:07 Why this and not this one 1:09 ? The first image dont show the thurst. just the flow of air. the air from above dont give any thrust. Only the air defelcted from under wing give thrust. Why we should take in consideration the air from above? is because the vortice?
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
It is the air that flows over the wing that contributes to most of the lift. The ratio depends on the angle of attack. That's why the overside of the wing is so smooth. That's why ice and snow is removed from the wings before departure. That's why when the airflow over the wing is distrubed, the wing stalls, and the airplane stops flying. This video might be helpful: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html
@crimony3054
@crimony3054 10 месяцев назад
@@FlywithMagnar You can get a brick to fly if you get it moving fast enough. Speed causes the air molecules to hit the underside and bounce off like ping pong balls. That forces the brick up. Wings do generate lift from the top, too. Now someone will say air doesn't work like ping pong balls, but don't tell that to the crew of Space Shuttle Columbia.
@leonardgibney2997
@leonardgibney2997 Год назад
I would ask how such a wing could fly upside-down. My take on it is at take-off roll a wing has leading-edge flaps extended downwards which has the effect of thickening it. At V1 the air can't get out of the way quickly enough and gets bounced upwards. But it then comes back down again because of the weight of the atmosphere pushing down on it. This has the effect of creating a vacuum above the wing otherwise known as a 'shock wave'. Vacuums have to go where vacuums belong, to the top of the atmosphere (equilibrium law). All trillions of tonnes of the atmosphere pushing the vacuum upwards, but practically it's just the air immediately around the plane which does the job. I've seen these shockwaves above the wings of planes as they say, landed at airports with condensation forming along them. At higher speeds above 400 knots maybe, the shockwave starts to have difficulty keeping up with the plane and drags back on it. Engineers eliminate much of the drag by angling the wing back into the shock wave. This 'sweep angle' can tell you the rough operational speed of the plane. When a plane breaks the sound barrier the bang is caused by the shock wave, no longer able to keep up with the plane, collapsing or imploding. A thick wing will create more lift than a thin one but also more drag.
@animatem
@animatem Год назад
@Fly with Magnar ok. I am interested and I and watched your video more than once. I like your explanation of "pressure" difference. There are however, 2 things that still give me "question". I have 2 observations for you. 1.) I tried your experiment. I confirmed your results. BUT, I also blew on the underside of the paper and it moved up. It didn't matter top or bottom, the paper moved up. Why? 2.) a sailboat's sail is like a piece of paper. It is thin, etc. The length wind travels over the "front" of a curved sail is practically the same as the length traveled on the "back" of a curved sail. The fastest a sailboat will sail is straight downwind where the full area of the sail is exposed and curve in the middle. Think about that. Why does everything on a sail with regards to cause of pressure difference change just because an angle was introduced? How sure are you that "angle of attack" is not more important than curved shape? What are your thoughts? What experiments with paper can you think of to help? I am probably waaaaay out of my league here, but I am honestly curious. I do sail, and as I sail downwind I think about these things.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
1) Blowing on the top of a curved piece of paper doesn't explain lift, but the Coanda effect, which is utilized in some aircraft to control the boundary layer. As you see in the video, when the paper is hanging straight down, is will not move when you are blowing over the one of the surfaces. When you are blowing at the underside of the paper, it moves up because you add more air under it. To explain lift, you must look at the entire wing, not only one of the surfaces. So, I suggest you to forget paper experiements. The sail of a sailboat is a better comparission because it reembles the wing profiles of birds and early aircraft. 2) When the wind is blowing along the sail, it will be flapping and not producing lift. When the wind is blowing into the sail with an angle, the sail will form the shape of a curved wing, and it will produce lift. The mast is round and acts as a leading edge. This helps directing the airflow over the curved sail. The curvature of a wing enables it to produce lift without too much drag. Varying the angle of attack allows the wing to produce lift at various speeds. I hope this helps.
@animatem
@animatem Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar got it. ...and thank you for the detailed reply. Not many people do that!
@animatem
@animatem Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar Really, I want to give a second "thank you". It is nice to have an expert to answer a few of my observations. I know I barely understand these concepts, since my study is rudimentary and mostly based on single paragraphs about lift in sailing books along with a 1980's science textbook. Thank you.
@alans172
@alans172 Год назад
@@animatem You might enjoy my Swept Volume Theory. Enter swept_volume_theory into your "favourite search engine".
@alans172
@alans172 Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar Stick with flying. Sailing is much more nuanced. The mast does not "act(s) as a leading edge" at all. It is there to support the sail, and its essential thickness (for compressive strength) does that at the expense of the efficiency of the sail. That's why high performance boats have streamlined, rotating masts ...specifically to reduce the drag from the mast.
@tonybutler3502
@tonybutler3502 2 года назад
I used to hate the drawings showing the airflow being forced to go faster across the top of the wing and then joining up with the slower flow under the wing, my brain used to ask how the hell do the individual "packets" of air above and below the wings know how to combine again after the wing has functioned. Quantum physics maybe?
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar 2 года назад
Not even quantum physics can explain that!
@grizwoldphantasia5005
@grizwoldphantasia5005 2 года назад
I always thought that was the easy way to explain lift, probably because I am neither pilot nor aeronautical engineer. Look at the picture of a thin wing at 6:00. Air is lazy, and nature abhors a vacuum -- that is why winds rush in one way only. The air moving over the top has further to go than the air moving below the bottom for them to meet again at the trailing edge. There are two ways to make up this difference: the top air can move faster, or the bottom air can curl up and reverse direction at the trailing edge. It should be obvious that reversing direction like that would be a lot more work, and air is lazy -- easier for the bottom air to keep going backwards and create that lower pressure zone which can suck in the upper air -- speed it up, make the upper air move faster. This difference in pressure is what provides lift. A wing generates more lift as the angle increases, because the difference in distance increases. But at some point, you raise the angle too much, and suddenly it is easier for the bottom air to curl up around the trailing edge and go forward to meet the upper air, and that is how wings stall. This explanation has satisfied friends, but it should be obvious why I am not an aeronautical engineer :)
@jackfrost2146
@jackfrost2146 Год назад
@@grizwoldphantasia5005 Using the intermittent smoke streams, it has been shown that the flow at the top of the wing doesn't meet at the trailing edge. The top flow lags behind.
@aviationtalkandtutorials2456
@aviationtalkandtutorials2456 2 года назад
Great work as usual Captain, but if your audience are mostly pilots not design engineers, so they better stick to the angle of attack principle, as in fact all the controls works the same way, i agree the lift is the product of all these things together but it is easier to visualize the deflections in controls in anticipation of the effect than using the deflection increase method. Keep up the good work capt :)
@roiq5263
@roiq5263 Год назад
I always had a bad feeling about the bernouille principle theory.
@The0ldg0at
@The0ldg0at 10 месяцев назад
The reality of flying is not just lift, it's the lift vs drag ratio.
@kalas2320
@kalas2320 3 месяца назад
You should know that, in aerodynamics, they apply the Bernoulli equation with potential flow. That means the flow is inviscid, irrotational and incompressible. This leads to the Laplace equation with the boundary condition there is no flow normal to the lifting surface. When you blew the paper vertically, there existed flow normal to the surface, so, it didn't meet the boundary condition for aerodynamic external flow. In short, your proof is flawed from the beginning. The Bernoulli equation is based on the principle of conservation of energy of ideal fluid, so, it is the same thing as the Newton's law of motion. We need to know their fundamentals before using them though.
@terencew3840
@terencew3840 4 месяца назад
feel vindicated .. back in 2000 i was taught the old theory in school and i had a debate with my teacher about the illogical explanation of why the air over the top of the wing meeting the bottom air at the same time doesnt make sense at all
@vincentlee2460
@vincentlee2460 Год назад
Nothing wrong with admitting a mistake. It takes courage
@lastmanstanding9389
@lastmanstanding9389 10 месяцев назад
Take off is Bernoulli while landing is Newton.
@shapegroove-qv5ps
@shapegroove-qv5ps 8 месяцев назад
Just a note, "deceleration" is incorrect. It is always called acceleration, simply because acceleration is a vector, so it has magnitude and direction. Like the difference in speed (scalar only) vs velocity (movement with direction)... The same goes for electric circuits, there is NO CURRENT FLOW, only directional movement or jostling (oscillation) of charge (DC vs AC). Hence current NEVER FLOWS, current is a form of flow AND thus, CHARGE is what moves. Current flow is nonsense, can a flow flow? (second derivative of what??) In the same sense, acceleration is the ONLY term and when a car, for instance hits the breaks, it accelerates to a HALT. Because the acceleration vector changes direction to oppose the motion, via the breaks and friction exerted on the road.
@synergy6294
@synergy6294 Год назад
Hahahaha....Magnar, your confidence in "airflow !" is amazing. But think again, nothing actually flows, the air is static !!!!!. And let me amaze you even more....try explaining bouyancy... :)
@glider1157
@glider1157 Год назад
My explanation: A curved wing is interrupting the air-pressure over the wing in a narrow area causing lift.
@riosabadicci4380
@riosabadicci4380 Год назад
Why would interrupting airflow create lift? Does a fan fly?
@ktl4539
@ktl4539 2 года назад
I've never heard a good explanation of how a fully symmetrical wing can produce lift based on Bernoulli principles. A half symmetrical wing is always shown in the standard explanation and talks about high and low pressure. Doesn't make sense. As in any fluid system, the object must displace more fluid to float or fly (PLANE). An airPLANE wing merely displaces air from the wing to overcome the weight of the aircraft. The angle-of-attack allows the wing to displace enough air off and down from the wing to produce the lift. This is what "lifts" a boat moving through the water i.e. when it gets up on PLANE.
@buzzypeterson1147
@buzzypeterson1147 Год назад
In 7000 hours of flight time. Flying cargo for a living, flight instructing, flying ultralights, powered parachutes, and kites. I have come to the conclusion there is not just one answer. Lift comes from pressure, that pressure can come from impact, ie angle of attack, In a powered parachute or kite. Or from Bernoulli’s type of lift. Some aircraft such as the stol planes could fly with no airfoil at all. Just off impact pressure. There’s a lot more to this, like aspect ratio, And drag curves. It’s not that easy of a thing. Nice video. But the whole story has to many answers.
@dr_jaymz
@dr_jaymz Год назад
You stick a plank out into the breeze as you drive along, you get lift. It doesn't have a curved surface but doesn't need one. Its still causing the curve or acceleration of air mass downward. Bernoulli gets too much credit for what is really just a special case of the coander effect. His equation only relates to a stream or venturi but that's really just an aerofoil curled right round to join itself. Coander is all you need and you accelerate any mass you need a force. The force of air moving downward is equal and opposite to that on the wing seen upward. I can believe that in flying syllabus books you still see bernoilli and the equal transit nonsense, I don't know why because its far less intuitive as well as wrong.
@paulbriggs3072
@paulbriggs3072 4 месяца назад
So it's Babinsky now, not Bernoulli....
@AverageAlien
@AverageAlien 20 дней назад
The problem with this explanation is that it doesn't explain how planes can fly upside down, and how some wings are completely symmetrical and even flat in the case of some fighter jets
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar 20 дней назад
Short answer: Angle of attack. A longer answer: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html
@fredbarnes196
@fredbarnes196 6 месяцев назад
It seemed like an arbitrary decision to compare lift to low pressure cyclones. Why not compare lift to high pressure systems? That would make the pressure highest in the center of the system and lower as you moved outward, reversing the conclusions of the discussion
@VicAusTaxiTruckie
@VicAusTaxiTruckie Год назад
Yeah Babinsky is wrong. It is not the curvature, it is the reduction of the sectional area of the streamline when there is a physical obstruction of the wing in the free stream. In theory, the streamline geometry would be symmetrical, causing symmetrical pressure distribution, and zero lift possible. However, boundary layers and BL seperation exist in nature, thus allowing a wing to alter streamline geometry to allow net lift.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
I have to say that you are bold challenging Professor Babinsky. Even if you have a degree in fluid dynamics, you might learn a few things from him.
@VicAusTaxiTruckie
@VicAusTaxiTruckie Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar perhaps there might be details lost in the simplification of the explanation for lift, but the fundamental concept is still wrong. It is also NOT about fluid dynamics, because that studies the flow that is already established. The simplest way to explain lift is THE SHARP TRAILING EDGE. Which forces air to flow around the wing in nature in the pattern observed. After which you may apply fluid dynamics.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
Well, have a look at this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html This is lift as explained by Professor Holger Babinsky, Associate Professor Krzysztof Fidkowski, and L. J. Clancy's book "Aerodynamics".
@VicAusTaxiTruckie
@VicAusTaxiTruckie Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar Already seen it and you are incorrect. Others have already pointed out that a flat plate wing will generate lift, it just generates a ton of drag. The reason why a flat plate can generate lift is it has a SHARP TRAILING EDGE which creates a flow pattern that has circulation. My proof: A flat plate propeller can generate thrust, many fans use flate plate blades to reduce cost. You are also wrong about downwash in your video. There is no downwash because the wing wake is turbulent and has no net vector. Your own pressure distribution diagram shows lower static pressure in the flow that left the top of the wing compared to flow leaving the bottom of the wing. This means the flow pattern will bend UPWARDS behind the wing. Applying Newtons 3rd law to suggest there is a downward change in mass flow in reaction to lift is the biggest damned fallcy of all. It violates the fundamental principle of conservation of energy. The only way this is true is if you always need at least a thrust to weight ratio of greater than one for self powered flight. This is only true in VTOL and helicopters.
@alans172
@alans172 Год назад
I would like to read Prof Babinsky's paper, but your link takes me to a paywall.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
Alan, yes you have to pay when using that portal. In this video, I'm referring to another document written by Babinsky. I have can email it to you. You made a comment to my first video about Bernoulli and Newton; it appeared on my phone, but not in the Studio app (I don't know why). The issue with the wind tunnel is that it is very small. The floor and the ceiling are too close to the wing. For example, the downwash is supressed. Hence, there's no undisturbed air above and below the wing. Another factor is that the wing is at a high angle of attack, and the airflow towards the trailing edge is separating. And not to mention inaccuracies in the smoke distribution system, and the scale factor (Reynolds number).
@alans172
@alans172 Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar If, as you say, the discrepancies in the wind tunnel geometry, the AoA, the Reynolds Number and the smoke distribution system are sufficient to invalidate my conclusion about the absence of increased air speed over the upper surface, then shouldn't they also invalidate his conclusions about the "equal transit time" theory as well? (From many other sources, I have no doubt it is a fallacy, but the video is very convincing.) This increased air speed is widely used to develop the Bernoulli Principle based explanation for the low pressure above the wing, but I have not found any research that demonstrates it existence. Are you able to provide any references? And yes, I would very much like you to send me a copy of the paper.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
The purpose of the video clearly is to dismiss the "equal transit time" hypothesis. And it does that perfectly. An airflow accelerates when flowing smootly over a cruved surface. This causes the static air pressure to decrease near the surface. Further away from the surface, the air moves with less velocity (higher static pressure). This pressure difference is lift. If you want a reference, I recommend "Aerodynamics" by L. J. Clancy. It has been my "bible" for decades and can be purchased/downloaded from various websites. Please email me and I will send a copy of Babinsky's paper. My email address is shown in the About secion in my profile.
@alans172
@alans172 Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar at 7:46 you claim Babinsky said: " Curved streamlines cause pressure variations across the streamline. And lift is caused by flow curvature". I think that's not a too unreasonable interpretation of Babinsky's paper which actually states: " ...any shape that introduces curvature into the flow field can generate lift. Aerofoils work because the flow follows the local surface curvature of the upper and lower surfaces." (That's a direct quote.) I think there is confusion about cause and effect amongst a) the shape of the surface, b) the curved flow field, c) the pressure difference and d) lift. Babinsky claims it is the shape of the surface that causes the curved flow field which generates lift. Here are two insurmountable problems with that "explanation". 1.There's plenty of experimental evidence that a flat plate angled to the incident airstream will generate a curved flow field (b) and lift (d). It's not the shape of the surface (a) or the curved flow field that causes (d) lift (d) . Shape (a) influences the size of the lift (and drag!) 2. it's not the shape (a) of the surface or the curved flow field (b) that causes (d) lift. Why? 2 reasons: A) As Babinsky correctly points out in his paper, the curved flow field (c) is the result of a pressure gradient (c). It's not caused by the shape of the surface (a). B) Lift is the force that opposes the downward force (gravity). Classical physics states the only way a fluid (like air) can exert a force on a body is via pressure (c). Lift cannot be created by either the curved flow lines because it's not pressure, nor or the shape of the surface, again, not pressure. (This probably scuppers all the explanations involving momentum, inertia, circulation and vortices!) The cause of the curved flow field (b) and lift (d) is the pressure difference (c). The shape of the aerofoil is irrelevant to the argument. The $64 question is what causes the pressure difference? I have a theory, just not fully formed yet.
@mikel4879
@mikel4879 Год назад
Alan Smith / You make a big confusion between an ideal theoretical situation and the practical one. In the ideal theoretical situation, yes, in principle, in order to obtain lift the geometry of the "wing" doesn't matter. You obtain "lift" ( or even "drag coeficient" in any viscous medium ) with any planar shape. But in order to obtain the MAXIMUM "lift" ( or a minimum drag ) the shape matters enormously. Just think about the natural shape of the bird wings, or the form of a fish in water, or the form of a water drop in free falling, etc Do you see natural forms that fly ( or swim, or etc ) through a fluid in a form of very slim parallelepiped, or in the form of cubes, etc? No. It is naturally present ( in nature ) only in elongated CURVED surfaces. So, the shape MATTERS a LOT in order to obtain the BEST LIFT POSSIBLE ( or the lowest drag possible) when flying or moving fast through a fluid ( through air in case of an airplane). The curved surface obtains the best lift possible ( or the lowest drag possible) with the minimum energy expenditure. With wings of planar surfaces geometries, yes, you can obtain lift by using the angle of attack, but the maximum lift in these cases is much lower than the one obtained with curved wings for the same energy expenditure ( behind the planar wing using the angle of attack to get lift there's a turbulent drag effect, while a curved wing obtains lift by creating an orderred laminar Bernoulli effect above it ). There's no $64 question at all, because the general principle is not complicated at all Professor Babinsky explains "academically" the general principle, but as you can see both Newton and Bernoulli are valid and used in his explanation. There's no mystery in the fact that the pressure of a contained fluid decreases when its speed increases at one location, because at higher speeds of the contained fluid in one of its location it simply takes a permanently delayed TIME ( as long as the higher speed of the fluid is present ) to replenish the MASS that's being moved faster from that location ON a specific AREA. The continuous delay in that replenishment is "equal" ( or proporttional ) to the lower local pressure.
@hansonrm
@hansonrm Год назад
Lift is just pressure differential at work. Thats it
@brettharman8921
@brettharman8921 Год назад
magnar, from reading the comments it appears you did not "clearly" explain lift. people once again think planes are being "sucked" up into the sky-
@david_porthouse
@david_porthouse Год назад
If a slightly inclined hydrofoil is pulled through liquid helium, no transverse force is generated. If the same hydrofoil moves through liquid sodium, with exactly the same geometry or kinematics, then there will be a transverse force, also known as lift. Explain that !
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
Zero viscosity
@david_porthouse
@david_porthouse Год назад
@@FlywithMagnar Correct. You could elaborate for the benefit of your viewers.
@johnnet2472
@johnnet2472 Год назад
A teaser to explain the difference. An airplane carrying a plane load of bird cages with birds in them. Does the airplane weight less if all the birds fly around there cage? No, because the air coming off their wings goes down and hits the floor and the airplane is still carrying the bird flying or sitting on the roost. If ceiling and floor of the aircraft body are cut out so you can see through the airplane and now the birds fly around their cages does the airplane weight less? Yes, because the bird wings pull the air down throught the open ceiling of the airplane and push the air out the bottom of the open floor of the plane. And if you put in a large fan as in a F-35 and open the top and bottom door and turn the fan on then the airplane can move up without the lift from the wings, because the fan, like lots of little birds, is moving air down.
@louiscervantez1639
@louiscervantez1639 Год назад
Aha!
@saffanfarook1038
@saffanfarook1038 9 месяцев назад
We must respect the old days teachers, but we must not warship them, if their findings are wrong, comparing with modern days, technology, hope aircraft makers find the correct way to minimise the drag, n make more efficient aircraft to save more fuel, to save our planet from Carbon emissions. ❤ From Sri Lanka.
@ATINKERER
@ATINKERER 10 месяцев назад
Well, I guess I'm wrong.
@boptah7489
@boptah7489 Год назад
Rockets also work on the Bernoulli Bernoulli principle. This is why rockets cannot work in the vacuum of space.
@Observ45er
@Observ45er Год назад
Wrong. They work on newton and work just fin in vacuum.
@boptah7489
@boptah7489 Год назад
@@Observ45er Rockets work on pressure. You cannot create pressure in a vacuum
@Observ45er
@Observ45er Год назад
@@boptah7489 Try again. The combustion pressure pushes the rocket motor forward while pushing combustion gasses rearward (in to the vacuum) Momentum transfer. The gasses have mass and the pressure accelerates them into the vacuum allowing the forward component of that same pressure to push the combustion chamber forward. Trivial Newton's Third Law from 11th grade.
@Observ45er
@Observ45er Год назад
@@boptah7489 Try putting zero pressure (the vacuum of space) into Bernoulli's equation and see what you get, smarty pants. . Hint: Rockets work BETTER in space than in an atmosphere pressure.
@MikeBracewell
@MikeBracewell Год назад
So, in other words, a curved surface in motion produces a pressure gradient across it - low pressure immediately above & a corresponding low-pressure immediately below - as you ABC diagram deftly demonstrates (which, seems a tad Newtonian, wouldn't you agree?). Seems to me all theories, more or less, point to this same conclusions, just explained from a different perspective. Moreover, you're ignoring the role of angle of attack & the Coanda effect at the boundary layer, both of which are highly significant in the generation of lift, wouldn't you agree?. In fact the diagram of high-lift devices you used in order to demonstrate increased curvature shot you in the foot a little as they portray slats & slotted-flaps (curvature/area increasing drooped leading edges & Fowler-flaps would have been a better choice). The primary role of a slats is to re-energise the boundary layer on the upper surface of the wing - not to increase curvature. These allow the plane to operate at a higher AOA, thus generating greater lift at low-speed. Although slotted flaps do increase curvature they, primarily, exploit the Coanda effect by accelerating air through the slot formed between the leading-edge of the flap & the trailing edge of the wing.) This allows them them be lowered to a greater AOA (thus generating more lift) without stalling when compared to a plain-flap. May sound like I'm picking here, but you're being a little forthright, maybe even pedantic, in your explanation ("wouldn't you agree?") so inviting scrutiny. Remember, the devil is in the detail. Wouldn't you agree?
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
Thank you for tour feedback. Yes, the devil is in the detail. The purpose of this video was to explain lift without using Bernoulli principle or Newton' laws of motion (the nature is a great source of inspiration). I just added them in the end as a teaser. Then, I made this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uyRx25MSWng.html Which was followe up with this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-d4w1Iy4vVMg.html I think I have answered your comments in those videos, except for the slapt/flaps, wich will be the subjeft for a future video.
@xcriss2898
@xcriss2898 Год назад
IMHO The Coandă Effect (From Henri Coandă, Romanian scientist, 1886-1972) is more about the property of a flowing fluid to stick to a convex surface* (that precisely addressing and explaining the experiment with the paper). A consequence is "suction", ground effect and, ofc, the so-called AERODINAMYC lift, exerted on a single curved surface, as you wonderfully explained. Bernoulli's Law (from Daniel Bernoulli, Swiss scientist, 1700-1782), on the other side (in conjunction with Newton's 2nd Law) better explain the wing (but not how an aircraft flies, which is a conjunction of factors!). Bernoulli's wing: Simply put, the wing splits the air into two streams, one flowing atop the wing, and one below the wing. One can imagine the air particles A and B flowing together, hand in hand, being separated at the leading edge of the wing and happily meeting again at the trailing edge of the wing. "A" travel on the top of the wing, and "B" below it. That means that they traveled the respective distances, while separated, at the same time (!). And how "A" in "B" stays closer to the surface and just not go away? Well... (*) That's the Coandă Effect :) If the top of the wing is more curved (as a usual wing is), the distance traveled following that surface is, ofc, greater than the "route" below the wing => the velocities v of A and B must be different in the way that v(A) > v(B) (d = v*t, t being the same here). Bernoulli's Equation: P(x)/rho+g*z + v(x)^2/2 = constant. rho (fluid density), g (gravitational acceleration), and z (elevation) can be assumed as being (quite) the same and neglected, thus p and v are inversely proportional. (btw Your equation looks a bit odd...). Measuring pressure instantly and having V(A) > V(B) as explained => P(A) must be lower than P(B) => differential pressure, acting upwards ("lift"). PS there is a trivial question, asking that if the more curved upper surface (Bernoulli) and/or higher pressure to the apex of a curve (Coandă) explains the ”lift”, how a plane can fly inverted? Actually, they can't unless they are fitted with specially designed wings and geometry, as in the case of aerobatic aircraft, or some of the military.
@FlywithMagnar
@FlywithMagnar Год назад
To answer your question, the answer is angle of attack. There's no need for a specially designed wing to fly upside-down, as long as it is strong enough. However, many aerobatic aircraft have a symmentrical wing profile for better handling.
@jaredstokes9895
@jaredstokes9895 2 года назад
Two pieces of paper hanging parallel to each other, straight down, about an inch to two inches apart, blow in between them cleanly and they will move closer together. Hold a single sheet of paper about an inch from your chest, without bending on the short side ;), and blow straight down your chest, the paper should move towards your chest. An air compressor with a hose attached to the cap of a metal oil can, with the cap open to the can from the hose. Turn the compressor on and the air iside the can will move towards the airflow reducing the pressure I the can which will be crushed by the ambient pressure. Place a piece of paper on the back of a box fan, it will stay there. Etc...
@XPLAlN
@XPLAlN Год назад
Dear Magnar, these explanations of lift always descend into nonsense in the comments. Newton or Bernoulli based explanations are fine by me. There is no perfect qualitative explanation of lift and we certainly aren’t going to get into Navier Stokes here. From the pilot (and perhaps even aeronautical engineer) perspective I believe it is instructive to root this discussion in the general lift equation of L = CL q A. Lift being ‘force’, this equation must be a form of Newton’s second law. But ‘q’ is the main term in there. This fact is a big clue that the concept named after Mr B, is fundamentally bound up in this. Or, to put it another way, nobody seems to argue against the airspeed indicator as an application of the Bernoulli Principle. And yet when the exact same output shows up in the lift equation, a lot of people have a hard time accepting it. But we shouldn’t concern ourselves too much with those who don’t wish to see.
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