“Your version of love, your version of who you want me to be, is a version that no longer exists. I cannot be that anymore.” …. Phew 😭😭 As an exmo who is estranged from her family, this hit hard. I appreciate this interview and resonate with it so much. Thank you so much for sharing this! I needed this more than you know.
I have an unreleased song called The Ghost of Me that talks about this…it was such a huge moment or understanding for me when I realized that I could not live in a world where people only wanted to live with a ghost version of myself.
Just a Missionary? There are tons of U, all over the World! Ex - Bishops, etc. Half Ex Baptists, Ex Church of Christ, Lutherans, etc. They all come apart, About 1% of them, like Jehovah Witnesses get OCD & play as if Adventists or Witnesses, or JIM JONES, or Dianetics in Salt Lake city. Tons of Ex Mormon Bishops, ex Catholic Priests, Nuns raped, Altar boys Molested! U go girl, ex Missionary in Jim Jones & Cults like yours! Yup, Cults like Yours! Don't look Now, but NOBODY is "BORN," with a Mormon Name & U admit a Temple Name is a Born Name? This is like Pierre in France, Jose in Mexico, Youseph in Israel, or Hassan in Middle East, Nguyen in Vietnam. Vladimir in Russia, Middle name WOLF in Germany, or Anderson, Jake, Peterson, Tucker, Carter, is not THE NAME us American WHITES give to our Kids! IRENE! ? That truly is Sad. Real Italian names, Ukraine names, am sure are not IRENE! My point is, IRENE needs to stop thinking that The Language among Nephites, incuded the Name Irene! Nor did Lamanites had the Language of Irene. Projecting your Groin, as if U are confessing to a Catholic Confession Box & Blame your words to the Listener, is literally psycho Babble when Nobody is forcing you to go to Temple! I can Imagine being a Man, a Bishop! And having to tell Parents, SORRY, your 11 year old OVER-Shared! I hated to hear it & I hereby will DISQUALIFY your sex active daughter from going to the Temple! Moral of story here is If I am ashamed, & Blame the Bishop & specially bc he let me STILL go to the Temple! She mentions Money $ but the Spirit is Rarely felt among 90% of Mormons. If I pretend to be a Bishop, I cannot even fathom how to make any man or woman of any age, inside my Office, on how to feel & be trained to have no feelings! To demand it of anybody who just left my office! I see here nothing but haters of Jehovah Witnesses, Jews, Baptists! So ex-Mormons thus far seem like ANGRY WOMEN on TRAUMA by a Religion? Okay. Embrace anger! No doubt these women will be Divorced 4-5 times each with Non Mormons!
My little town that I live in is predominantly Mormon when my daughter was eight years old, I decided to get baptized into the Mormon church because I thought it would help her have more friends and be more excepted in our small town. I really didn’t do it for myself because I could care less if the women liked me or not. it was incredible how nice they were when they were first trying to get me to join the church and I was an investigator. Women that had never spoken to me were now talking to me and pretending to be my friend. But I could still see the fakeness even one of the women. I became really good friends with her father-in-law was the one that baptized me. I had a lot of respect for him. then as the time went on, I noticed that my daughter wasn’t really getting invited to anything more nor was she having any more friends than she had before. Not much was changing, but now I was expected to go to church every Sunday, I was expected to fulfill my calling and to give my tithing. I was doing all of that, but do you know what I never ever ever got my temple recommend. You see my husband wasn’t going to church with me so I was still an outsider I was doing all the other things that I just mentioned 100% not missing a beat but then I started doing research into the church and that’s when I found the discrepancies, that’s when I started asking questions they basically told me just to steer straight and not to deviate off the path. I couldn’t look the other way anymore. All of the lies and discrepancies that I had found during my research made it impossible to stay in the church, knowing it was not true. I found all of my information in church history. I didn’t get it from any outside sources. It’s amazing how the church members don’t read their own church history, it’s incredible how judgmental they are and how they really aren’t good people. Now I’m considered an apostate and we are ostracized even more in the small town because of it. There’s only one person from church that still speaks to me. Everybody else doesn’t. I even have a small business here in town and not one of them uses my small business, we are in the process of selling our home and we are getting out of here. We’ve been here almost 30 years. It’s a very long time. My daughter is now 20 years old and luckily by the time she had hit middle school she had found her group of friends. They are all friends to this day. She says she never needed the church in the first place or those fake friendships.
They don't sound like good members to me at all. True believers are sincere and friendly and are genuine. Sadly the church is judged by poor members. When you follow Christ and His teachings you can't go wrong - friends or no friends.
@@HeatherJohnassonDixon the entire ward acts like that. Following Christ is one thing, but following the teachings of Joseph Smith is another. He was a false, prophet and a liar and if you read your church history a little bit you’ll figure that out for yourself just like I did and thousands of others.
I've had a similar experience with the church. I divorced my husband after a long temple marriage and moved to my daughter's town. Right off the bat, the members in her town were unfriendly. Recently my daughter also filed for divorce from her husband, who was and is very abusive to her and their kids. All three wards in the area are now treating all of us like total crap. So badly we're no longer attending any of them. The ex is a real piece of work, and there is on-going evidence of physical, sexual, verbal, emotional and financial abuse. No one cares. We've been called every name in the book, members have sent my daughter nasty emails and texts, we've been ostracized, the bishop refused access to a food order from the bishop's storehouse, refused to assign a ministering brother or sister to any of us, ward members came to court and committed perjury, slander is being spread all over town, which is preventing us from getting appropriate medical treatment, church members who work with my daughter spy on her and pass info to her ex, her bishop and stake president called her a liar and passed private information to her ex, the local sheriff, who is a member of the church, came to court and committed perjury, and the sheriff's office won't respond to calls my daughter makes. My daughter had an order of protection against the ex and currently has a no-contact order, which he does not respect. He's non-compliant with much of the divorce decree, not paying child support, etc. The ex has been reported 4 times for possible child abuse by mandated reporters. The church does not care about any of this. No one will take the reports seriously. CPS did show up and grill my daughter for five hours. It's a small town and the Mormons are related to or connected to everyone in all of these agencies. We want to move but cannot until custody battle is done, and may not be able to then. My experience with the church has been that this is the norm for reporting abuse and divorcing abusive men who are active church members. The church teaches that divorce is evil without much regard for why you are divorcing, and the members are not supportive of abuse survivors, or divorcing abusive men, and they come down on you with a vengeance. They are furious that you would say publicly that a member of the church, and member of a bishopric, is abusive. I think he could beat them black and blue in front of the church, in front of the entire ward, and no one would see a thing. The pablum you hear in general conference about how supportive the church is of abuse survivors and single women is total B.S. I watched how divorcing women got treated for many years before I ever dreamed I or my daughter would be one of them. They invariably got treated with contempt and disrespect. I sat in one relief society where the sisters told the six divorced women in the room, including the sister teaching the lesson, that they were all divorced because they were incapable of loving anyone and incapable of mature behavior.
I was baptized because everyone else was baptized. My parents were not active but did it because everyone else was doing it, I guess. Went to church by myself for a long time, never really fit in. Went to BYU because it was close to home. Met a guy who was a returned missionary but was a bad boy. We snuck out at night and he had long hair. He got a missionary haircut wig to wear to class. I learned a lot of what I "shouldnt do according to standards of the church and BYU. We got engaged and married, moved across the country. Again, I was going to church alone. He was playing in a band and on the road for several weeks at a time. I felt like I had no compass. I thought he would be the leader of our home, but no. We were way too young. I didn't understand if this church was as true as he claimed, why was I alone. He admitted that he committed adultery. I needed to get out. By this time, I had a baby. He was at the birth. We divorced when the baby was 2 months old. He walked out of my life. I left the church because his father who was in the stake presidency said his cheating was my fault because I wasn't putting out. (I was pregnant at the time) and told the church leaders that my name wasn't Mary and this was not immaculate conception. My father-in-law and the other church leaders blamed me for my husband's behavior. When we divorced, I cut my hair off. My ex loved long hair. I'm glad now that we didn't get married in the temple. Another thing that happened when our daughter was in high school. I had since remarried when she was 5 and had another baby. My current husband adopted her and we attended the methodist and episcopal church. My daughter was waiting for her boyfriend to get home From a mission. The bishop had her with the missionaries at his house in the middle of the night. When I figured it out and went there to get her (underage) the bishop told me I was going to go to he'll because I was denying her the truth. It was awful. Missionary comes home, marries her, did a lot of stuff and ended up in jail. They divorced. She left him and the church eventually. It was a relief for all of us that we were away from the Mormon church. My ex married 5 times and has now been with wife 5 for over twenty years and they are very active Mormon. I've been with my 2nd husband for 40 years. He is the head of our home. We are a partnership... what I wanted all along and found outside the church.
Yes, to this lovely compliment. (FYI- I deleted my similar comment under another “not so supportive” comment. Sorry for creating any confusion) Both of you are wise and communicate well with your viewers. All the best!
I feel cathartic listening to two young ladies talk about the same emotional cage I was in growing up Mormon. For years I felt so much shame by my inability to be 'worthy' enough. I had sex with my ex husband before I was married and when I was 19/20 I would go to the bishop to confess. I was trying to become 'worthy' enough to go to the temple so we could be married. Even though my bishop was kind, the whole ordeal was terrible and humiliating. When we finally did go to the temple, it wasn't anything like I had hoped for. It was uncomfortable and cultish. I didn't go on a mission, but because I did end up having a temple wedding I was endowed. My secret name was Leah. He wasn't supposed to tell me his name, but after we left the church he told me his was Alma. Even after leaving the church when we were 21, it wasn't freeing at first. It was depressing. I felt like an idiot. My whole world was turned upside down. Along with intense mormon indoctrination my family was dysfunctional, abusive and controlling. It took years to learn and heal from my personal traumas. I had no self love, no self respect, low confidence and a lot of anger. I look back now with sadness and compassion to a younger version of myself. Be gentle and kind to yourselves. Recognize that feelings of anger is that someone is crossing your boundaries.
Hard to know which comes first the cart or the horse when it comes to dysfunctional family and religions and cults. Of course cult addicts will attempt to seek the tack that mainstream religions aren’t cults but they are. Furthermore it does behoove any well educated theologian to lie about that fact.
Just proves that you don't n3ed a middle man (a priest, bishop, or any one) for confession/repentance/forgiveness. The Holy Scriptures say that the only way to our Heavenly Father is thru His Son, Yahshua.
@@sharonboston9087 I don't believe in god or any supernatural or mythological beliefs. I have anger towards the religion I was indoctrinated into because of how it placed and then preyed on my insecurities. Institutional religions are a way of controlling people with the promise that if they obey (which includes giving 10% of your income) then you will be rewarded after you die. There is a lot of emotional power over people when you have the 'answers' to what happens to us after we die.
Wow!! The conversation about anger was so encouraging! My power is in my anger. My anger is the statement that says I am worth more than what I am being given. I have been so afraid of my anger because I thought it was bad to be angry. Maybe I’m angry for a good reason. This never occurred to me, that my anger was appropriate. Love, love you guys!😍😍😍😍😍😍
Anger is a symptom of unexpressed sorrows, that merely need resolve. The Spirit of wrath and contention, as well as feelings of victimization, all are tied to the Impudent, rebellious spirit of Lucifer. There is nothing transcendental from anger. This coming from a man who had a sinister problem with wrath and anger. Jesus is peace. Come unto Christ He is our yoke. He washed our feet, knowing his crucifixion was inexorable and imminent
10:26 I think it’s so sweet how the guest asked for your experiences on this also. It shows that these aren’t just interviews you’re doing. But mutual shared discussions
She just helped me. I was in my appt. With my psychologist today, talking about my anger...and how it feels so wrong and shameful...I actually finally admitted to myself...that it is ok to feel and be passionate in your beliefs and opinion...I am slowly starting to believe it is ok to have feeling and opinions that don't comply...it really doesn't matter what people think of me, I am just me and it is ok.
“If you’re not angry, you’re either a stone, or you’re too sick to be angry. You should be angry. You must not be bitter. Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. It doesn’t do anything to the object of its displeasure. So use that anger, yes. You write it. You paint it. You dance it. You march it. You vote it. You do everything about it. You talk it. Never stop talking it.” ― Maya Angelou ❤
Anger is a sign of healthy ego. Yes, there’s such a thing as healthy ego. That ego may be covered over with indoctrinated self-talk, smothered. But a healthy you is in there. Somewhere. The journey is finding, creating, letting that healthy you out. The alternative to healthy anger is retreat, dissolution, subjection, living a zombie, not-you life. Healthy ego is an autonomous, structured self that embraces “This is me. That is not me.” It IS “crafting an identity,” fantastic you see it, Irene! No wonder hierarchy destroys healthy ego. No one has a right to do that. No one, so get angry. “Not allowing anger” = not allowing selfhood, a healthy individualized ego. The only rule about anger is to express it in a way that doesn’t hurt others or yourself. The positive use of anger is determination and self protection. Someone, something tried to destroy you. Get angry, get determined: “No one’s destroying me. No one! Ain’t happening!” Find a therapist who can help. There’s life after a cult. The angels (real ones) are with you exmos. Blessings.
I left the church 20 years ago when I was 16 due to being ostracized for my choice in boy to date and was used as an example during other members family home evening as how not to be "don't go down the wrong path like her" and now, at 36, watching your videos has made me realize that I still harbor anxieties that stem from my time in the church such as my inability to bare my shoulders and knees in public and an intense need to please my significant other at the detriment of myself many times because I was taught to be the support. It's truely surreal listening to you guys talk about so many things that I struggle with even 20 years later and never realized! Thank you guys for being so strong and talking about all of this! Rock that name, Irene, stick it to the church!
Bravo!!! You just keep on acting like a lady and remain chaste in the way you dress. You're setting a good example for the last couple of generations of girls who have been raised in day care centers.
I just read the family proclamation. I've never been a Mormon however reading that does not take into account unhealthy toxic families. They assume that people would just want to spend forever with their family. Some people can't even stand Christmas with their Family.
This is very true. It plays into the whole thing where if you’re unhappy then it’s because you’re not doing Mormonism right. So if you’re doing it right then you have a perfect happy family and then you’ll all go to heaven together. That’s why you get a lot of parents who are really stressed and pretend like everything is perfect when in reality it’s falling apart.
I came from a toxic household, and when I tried expressing my frustration with people at church, they would chastise me by saying, "Families are a blessing." It never seemed to occur to them that not everyone has a happy family, and I just appeared ungrateful.
Suggest you watch a session or two of General Conference. Our leaders always teach us to love each other. We are reminded not to judge or condemn others.
I grew up in a Christian family and was neglected, as well as not taught boundaries, not taught that it was OK to be angry or say no, not taught how to explore my feelings and they didn't want to either (or didn't know how) and I can relate soooo much to this woman's feelings and story. I have been more angry the past 5 years of healing than I have ever been! I still struggle with guilt and shame with getting angry.... This road of healing is so hard. But, we are ALL worth this personal work!! Irene, much love to you!!! LOVE this channel!
Irene, I too met two people when I was in my abusive marriage that changed the course of my life. One man is an atheist and helped me see that I was in abuse and had the choice to leave (I didn't realize this until meeting him) and the other man I am now married to! ❤ These two men are question askers....and I have been my whole life but my family/church squelched that part of me until I completely closed up inside myself.....until I met these 2 men. Meeting them also came to a perfect point, a crossroads. It was absolutely miraculous. It was a spiritual thing, for sure! ❤
as someone who is a psychology major and a sociology minor, hearing these stories always makes me wonder if the mormon church has a few psychologists they hire behind the scenes. even if they’re social psychologists, how people function is a science and converting people has a methodology. i believe these things go hand in hand.
This question gave me chills as a former Mormon myself. It’s been fascinating to me to see that organizations led by mentally ill charismatics are often extremely psychologically powerful. Joseph Smith had uncanny instincts of manipulation. He didn’t need a psychiatrist to help him.
@@lifetaketwo7662 There have always been people who've had an amazing insight into the minds of the people around them. Some of them grew up to be the first counselors and therapists. Others choose to use their superpower for evil...
I actually saw some RU-vid videos that discussed the behind the scenes people hired to guide the church: marketing specialists, following trends, psychology specialist… wish I cld recall the link, but yes it’s a real thing. It’s totally calculated.
I went on my mission in 1978, I remember that the missionary lessons were basically a series of sales presentations with closing questions on each concept in order to get the investigator to commit to baptism. The church is basically a mutlibillion corporation that operates as a religion. And like all religions, they will manipulate emotions to get the desired results.
Betweena a mother with zero boundaries, different therapists, being stuck in Residential Behavior Modification programs (Troubled Teen Industry survivor here, hi, hello) and decades of 12-step enmeshment, I didn't know "over sharing" was weird until I was in my 30s.
@@Geoplanetjane thankfully, no physical violence from staff, because most of us were on probation, but the other residents were a different story altogether...
@@lilasfaves7846 it's never too late! Some of us never see it... 😉 Filed under "Takes One To Know One": you got through whatever brought you to The Rooms. You got through all of the BS of being in The Rooms. You got THIS! You will no longer be made to feel like an Asshole for saying, "Don't hug me, I don't like you" or walking out of the room when the sharing gets too graphic. Welcome! 💜
I'm sorry to hear you went through the troubled teen industry programs! They are so damaging. You certainly didn't deserve the trauma your mother and those programs imposed on you. Isn't this channel so great?!! This guest even says, regardless if viewers were in the same environment has her toxic group, the deconstructing of trauma is the same across all trauma. Happy you are here with us!
As an ex JW I could totally relate to part where the organization doesn’t really allow you to feel anger. If you show anger at something or someone, there’s something wrong with you or you need to pray more, forgive more, and just squash those feelings. It’s very frustrating and for many can cause depression and or anxiety.
Being angry is a part of life, as is grief ,joy and happiness. The idea is to not sin in our anger. Anger is the warning light on the dash board that something is amiss.
@@johnlee1352 dude, it's a typo. Chill. Yes, I was. My family can even trace its lines all the way back to being original pioneers that traveled with Brigham Young to Utah and settled there. I can probably out trivia you on the Book of Mormon. Ask me any question, and I can most likely give you an in depth answer. We used to play 'Stump the Missionaries' when I was a kid when the Elders came over for Family Home Evening or just a house call. Like, most people don't know there are two Moroni's, not one. Captain Moroni and Mormon's son. Moroni finished the Book of Mormon, not Mormon. Mormon died before he could, so his son finished it. Or, The Brother of Jared's name. Do you know it? I do. I definitely grew up LDS. We don't generally call ourselves Mormons on a regular basis because we don't worship Mormon, and that is an often misconception/derogatory term especially when I was much younger and in the church. However, the term has softened towards being called one. That good enough for you?
@@Tinuvielthefair Stop the "ourselves" language...you don't deserve to use it. You're no part of us and quit pretending otherwise. Your comment was easily taken from real Mormons' posts. Not impressed. Just pathetic that you are here at these sites. Faithfulness and loyalty are usually genetic traits...you have neither and it casts doubt on your claimed pioneer "ancestry". What are the three keys associated with the first emblem of the lesser priesthood? Your delay in answering will be relevant...
So helpful listening to you. I wasn’t raised Mormon but v strict mother. I became and addict and codependent and full of shame. I’m just learning about boundaries now at 72!! They’re so great and helpful in life. Draw a circle ⭕️ around yourself you are inside and can protect yiursekf
Let's be clear: NO ONE should be this concerned with the sexuality/sexualization of children. Or anyone, really. If you're own small child asks about their body, or where babies come from, go ahead and answer without judgement and without making them feel ashamed. Obviously, that's okay. But even a trained clergyman has no business asking ppl about their sexual habits or inclinations, much less passing judgement on them. Nevermind a random untrained neighbour who was "called" to the position of being essentially the sex police. Ick. A previous guest who name escapes me put it so perfectly: pedophile culture and purity culture are two sides of the same coin; they both obsess or the sexuality and sexualization of children. I grew up LDS and am happier now than I've ever been now that I'm out. You are both so courageous for speaking out, thank you.
Yes! Exactly!!! They are so sex obsessed yet claim “purity”. That word alone makes me cringe. It was Daniella Young who escaped the Children of God. Thanks for sharing!
Recent subscriber here! I’ve never been in a cult but I appreciate your channel and mission. You are spreading awareness and helping victims of abuse heal, thank you💕
OMG I love that I discovered your channel!!! These stories are so powerful and breaking that silence is such a key to making sure others don't suffer the same fate. Keep up the great work 👍🏽❤
My Mormon family also stuffs their grief in addition to anger. There's a repression of "negative" emotions throughout. My cousin died...my aunt (his own mother) didn't have any tears at the funeral. I have to think she did weep for him somewhere, sometime. I love my aunt and my cousins, but it's so clear when you're with them that they are hiding a LOT. Makes me sad. BUT your story...my girl cousin who went on a mission is now excommunicated. Her husband, Robert VanWagoner wrote a book Dancing Naked, which talks about the true polygamous history of the Mormon religion and got booted. LOL HIs bishop warned him! and I think he doesn't regret a thing. I know my cousin is happier without. Thank you for the eye opening. And thank you Irene for your openness. Every time I hear a mission horror story (about the neglect missionaries suffer) it infuriates me.
I stopped believing in the Mormon cult a few years ago. I peacefully stopped attending and my life improved in every capacity. For a while afterwards I still defended the cult saying "it's not that bad, everyone's happy!" It wasn't until recently that I started listening to others that left. The stories of others who escaped made me realize the trauma that I was in denial of that I experienced. I was suicidal between 14 and 17 pretty much non-stop. I wanted to end it all for multiple reasons, but one of them is that I accidentally broke the law of chastity and I thought I was unworthy of celestial divinity and the easier path would be to accept my terrestrial (or an even worse) afterlife immediately. I thought my life on earth was a test and that I had already failed. I couldn't even bring myself to discuss the internal torment I was in with parents because they would only confirm my damnation. They would have shamed and guilted me for enacting something that they decided not to teach me because it was sinful. I didn't even consciously acknowledge this trauma until I saw this discussion. I was still blaming myself for being immoral even after I left the church. I'm still processing this and it's going to take a long time to heal, but I'm getting there! I can't even imagine the amount of girls raised Mormon who hurt themselves physically or mentally because of the cult's bs. It hurts my heart
I was born several generations deep in Mormon fundamentalism. Our roots are the same. So many things that you talked about today hit home for me. You would be surprised at how similar our experiences are. Thank you both for being part of my path in healing!!
Knowledgeable about what? Knowing Mormon terminology doesn’t make someone knowledgeable. Lying about being abused is a huge red flag for her credibility.
It's truly amazing how this interview can be equally heartbreaking & frustrating (that any, let alone all, of this happened to you at all, but especially as a child / young adult), yet also extremely inspirational & empowering (that you not only survived & escaped, but that you are now thriving!) Live your best life! Sending continued healing & love to you both! 💙
Thank you for talking about sexual shame and how our self-worth held captive by the Bishop/Church. I went through late stage cancer at age 17 and later in life had PTSD episodes because I was trying to feel the "Godly sorrow" for normal human behavior.
I'm just learning how super freaky creepy this cult actually is. I find it very disturbing for the children. It's amazing that they are as normal as they are.
it's a lot of effort, a lot of hiding. then, when you get out, you start to throw everything out, and it can become easy to overcorrect and say, pick up a drinking habit. (didn't happen to me, but i have a number of mental health conditions that i ascribe to being raised by a cult.)
Don't be deceived by these 2 women. Nothing that they are saying is true. This is the most distorted statements about the LDS faith ever. These two ladies seem to have psychological issues. She is in shock that the bishops asked worthiness questions yet she's confusing doing blowjobs. Study the law of chastity found in the bible and as practiced in the Christian beliefs. These two ladies want to sound "educated". The fact she says that she's oversharing with others about her feelings tells you they have personal issues. If having the worthiness interview once a year (because that is how often temple recommends are) disturbed her life to that exaggerated extent, then that tells you they had a distorted view and perception.
And the inky reason she felt extreme shame, it is because she was breaking commandments. Emotions are not the Spirit alone ma'am. You totally seem to have an awful family life. Galatians 5:22 tells you what the emotions of the spirit are. I feel sorry that both of these ladies are spreading their personal distorted perception as the rule of thumb for the LDS faith, AND that is a total lie! They talk about the church using manipulation tactics when they are the ones totally manipulating others to believe their distorted views as the actual reality. Not all LDS people feel the way these two women feel. "Narcissistic, egotistical maniacs", that is their personal experience.
go try islam if you think this is bad islam is worst and all religion says women are not equal to men. its the woke turd of today thats think women can do whatever they want as in cheat lie and unfaithful beause its your body
They are pain-trained to pretend to be more normal than they could possibly be inside under the circumstances. At least in some cases that is how that works, probably in a lot of cases as far as I can tell anyway. The same outward behavior in a given situation can mask a radically different internal situation (which is part of why behaviorism is not an adequate paradigm for understanding people, even though it can be useful for controlling people if that is what someone is into). They are taught that acting happy is an obligation and showing negative emotion is a punishable offense against other people and God, as well as a dereliction of the duty to convince others that it is absolutely wonderful to be a member of the One True Church. And after all, it is implied, if you don't find it wonderful to be a member of the one true church then that means you are being bad by definition. A pure and worthy person would love that, supposedly. I see that 3 out of the 4 replies before this one have been censored (and can only be seen by the person who posted them, so they don't notice that they got censored). Take note of that if you happen to see this, i.e. if my reply isn't censored too.
I think the Mormon organization would have thrown me into a ravine. I've asked "impertinent" questions to so many churches lol so now I practice all my spirituality at home. The antifemale stuff just sat so wrong, there was no kind of rationale that would make me accept it. Church leaders and parents do not like to hear "That's stupid/ that's not fair/ that makes no sense/ WHY THOUGH/ No, I won't let a man push me around." Yes, I am a Christian; no, I am not a doormat! They don't like to hear "You know, Jesus never said any of that stuff!"
@@RobertaReal7980 Personally I see a lot of what he wrote as being addressed to what was going on in a particular time and place and not always applicable to present day. Many women didn't have an education back then so it was a good idea for them to get educated first. Nowadays that's not generally an issue. That's how Methodism looks at it.
YESSSS!!! Girl, you are a warrior and like me! I always had many questions and was shut up after a while during childhood. My questionhood was locked away by others judgment, including my parents. Now, my husband and I practice our spirituality at home, too. It's beautiful without any of that outside crap confusing us or muddying the waters that Jesus/God/Source wants us to know.... Glad you stuck up for yourself!!
Are you asking impertinently or politely with intent for actual discussion? Saying that’s stupid or that’s not fair is an immature teenage level response. A better answer would be, well who did Jesus entrust to tell the most important part of the New Testament, the Resurrection? He first appeared to women and told them to go tell the male apostles. That’s a much better argument / answer of why women are not second tier.
@@ladyelainefairchild3546 There’s also the fact that it used to be said back then it was better to burn a Torah than to let a woman study it…and Jesus encouraged Martha’s sister Mary to study it. Women got very little religious education back then. In St. Paul’s time that ignorance was in the early stages of being remedied, which was why women were to learn from their educated husbands rather than interrupt. Now that the education gap is closed, women are able to participate in the life of the church in the same ways as men. Even us conservative Methodists who have broken off from the UMC still ordain women. 🙂
Omg... at the end when she was talking about walking away and not realizing what trauma is still there... MAN! That's where I'm at right now. 28 years later... I am only now dealing with it and realizing how entrenched my religious trauma is and how it has lent to so much more throughout my life.
I am 69 and left the Mormon church twelve years ago. I never fully realized the baggage I took with me and still have. Thank you for this from the bottom of my heart. I will continue to discover who I am. I am looking forward to my next reincarnation. Hopefully I will experience all I wanted to in this one. As difficult as this one has been. I am a singer and will definitely go listen to Irene’s music. Thanks for this and for being the powerful beings you both are.
Irene, I discovered you yesterday August 24, 2023. I discovered your songs with the help of Siri from listening to a Latter Day Survivor podcast. They play one of your songs at the end of each podcast. This is the 3rd interview I have listened to yesterday and today. You have inspired me to remove my name from Church Records. I took off the sacred 😂garments in 2018 when I stopped believing in The LDS/Mormon Church. I wish you and the ecologist the best. Keep being you! It’s inspirational!
So much of the mission story sounds like what Scientology does - auditing a person and writing everything down and manipulating/coercing people's feelings on their "case". Such a great interview and you two really outlined the level of misogyny and patriarchy in the LDS. I'm now wondering if my ex-LDS friend has a temple name (she never told me, I think she just wanted out). Thanks, Shelise and Irene! (P.S. Irene means 'peace" "Eirene is the Greek goddess of peace", so she's a goddess)
What y'all said about anger is so true. My anger showed a lot since I felt so confused, frustrated, and unheard in my family. I always thought that Satan was trying to posses me. My parents told me that everything about our family was good and that Satan was trying to use me and my anger to tear us apart.
Oh my gosh! You too? I was always blamed for causing "contention" in the home because I was calling out the toxicity in our family. I moved out, and 11 years later, have never been happier while they're still toxic and miserable.
Such an emotional experience listening to you two. The church burns out the strongest believers. Lazy followers is the only way to stay active. Be proud of your story being what it is. You could have ended in a bad way. You’re amazing.
I listened to the entire High Water album and wow. I truly believe your next album will be so healing for you and others. This video warmed my heart. Keep going, both of you!
I’m sensing a personal understanding of similarities between parental narcissistic abuse and the church’s narcissistic abuse. I can relate. Beautifully discussed. Looking forward to hearing more from you two ❤❤❤
Awesome! Instagram showed me her 18 part story about leaving Mormonism and I started following her. Love her music, too. Looking forward to this interview ❤
I absolutely loved this interview, so much of what was said was, sadly, too familiar. The big ones though? 1. I was labeled the "peacemaker" in my difficult family too. I'm on my 5th therapist now and I'm finally starting to give myself permission to even HAVE emotions, let alone feel and process them. Still working on not assuming any negative feelings in people around me are automatically my fault though. Maybe a few more years of therapy? 2. I remember right before my 8th birthday, sincerely hoping that I died in a car accident or something on the way home from getting baptized, so that I could go straight to heaven. It genuinely didn't occur to me until now, just how messed up that is. Keep up the good work, both of you. It takes a lot for us to get out, and even more to heal, but it's worth it
I was a brainwashed Mormon for many years too numerous to mention & I did all the things Irene did & it's like looking at my life listening to her wonderful podcast. I won't go into them but I had 3 exceptionally bad things happen in the Mormon church & I asked 3 times to have my name removed from records of church but they won't do it because it was other members who did the bad things I didn't do anything g wrong But if I had gone to TV news or police the church would have been brought down they were big scandals I chose to listen to my BFF since 4 married to my cousin presbyterians "vengeance is mine saith the Lord" & He did marvellous job sorting out these pure evil ppl I have been everything from Relief Society presidency, gospel doctrine teacher & stake missionary & been Salt Lake City, Idaho Falls, Buenos Aires & temples everywhere in my country I totally agree with Irene & it took the terrible things that happened to my Elder son before his terrible death, that the straw that broke the Camels back happened I had met Pres Gordon B Hinckley as RS presidency & within year I was asking him take my name off records of the church & said I won't even tell you why as the leaders just do cover ups & I actually was threatened & had my house broken into & story I was writing on computer about what happened cleared out of my computer & things done to my car safety things. But I found myself & have had winderfu
Continued had a wonderful life for 20 yrs in my family church that my family was in way back when King James was in France My family are all same as me again We are totally free of Mormon cult I also found out that Joseph Smith, his dad & bro were Freemasons & unless taken off Salt Lake City temple the symbol for that is on wall outside temple SLC & my missionary elder (like you said found out from my local newspaper abt arrival of baby) had large family & after being from polygamist family & arriving from Germany crossing the plains with handcarts etc a family member professor BYU researched diaries & newspaper items time Joseph Smiths first vision & he had 3 goes abt who appeared to him until the God the Father & Son Jesus Christ appeared to him & that story took off Mother was Presbyterian That's what I couldn't get over I believed the First Vision & temple work I did by hundreds until I found out the garments, temple handshakes signs, whole temple ceremonies etc are just Freemasons stuff It is different in temples around world too But abt 55 years ago you were threatened with knife to throat not to tell what went on in sacred temple Changes all time Tithing joke Paid $12,00 first year in business many years ago another business Mormon said Oh no you take safe each husband & wife of abt $150 each week & only pay $15 each week But pensioners or ppl in poor countries told pay 10% of gross friend paid $214 month on pension plus keeping missionary in field $20 wk , plus feeding missionaries every week, taking in Ppl needing place sleep etc Plus coming house pick up fast offering what amount it would cost feed family of 4 & parents. Now we go to our church because we love to go & worship Jesus not forced to go Like millions of others since 1820's they were totally brainwashed in a cult that destroyed families They teach only mormons will get to celestial kingdom & I think they will go separate place to other true Christian Churches in the World who believe we all have Jesus in our hearts once baptised & we all go to same place whether black, white, yellow, red (USA Indians) or brown (islanders etc) we are all Gods children He loves us all the same & we will all be going to same place Blacks not allowed in Mormon church until President Spencer W Kimball changed that But people so brainwashed no one can help til they can do it themselves Testimony meeting I said on stand forever "it's only true church on earth, Joseph Smith prophet of God, Book of Mormon (a mixture of Zane Grey cowboy west USA stories & word for word copy Isaiah etc from Bible now believe) & I would say but the ppl are human & subject to weakness I also told President Gordon B Hinckley - meeting I met him he said "by their fruits you will know them" & I said to him I've met too many rotten fruit in the Mormon church I actually call the church "the church of Joseph Smith of poor suckers" now that I know it to be Thank you Irene a joy to watch you & lovely lady doing interview that you have escaped & are successful in your new free lives
This was such an amazing episode! The level of self-understanding and knowledge and intelligence between the two of you was magnanimous! Love all of you empowered women out there taking back your divine feminine power after having us held down for so long. It’s just so beautiful watching us rise and elevate!!
Hi I'm a fan of your show I'm a ex Mormon it's refreshing to hear topics you put out that gives meaning and understanding I enjoy listening what you put out keep it going a fan
Irene you are an incredibly captivating person. I'm so glad I got to watch this. I've been out of the LDS Cult now for a number of years, but it is still incredibly hard to get over. But I didn't figure it out until my mid 60s. You are so fortunate to have gotten it figured out as such a young age. Good for you. :)
I was baptized into this church in 1988 as an adult convert, but didn't stay active..they gave me a calling to be a teacher, where I lacked confidence in a big way, & didn't feel supported so I stopped going. Years later, after leaving a long term toxic marriage, I started attending & receiving missionary lessons again. I had a copy of Preach my Gospel, the missionaries' training manual, & was shocked at the absolute manipulation tactics taught in that book. All my books were quickly dispatched & I knew I was done.
Irene really stood out to me as very compelling, probably because she delivered every sentence with so much passion and strength behind it. Really great guest and good episode. Wishing all the best to the both of you ❤ thank you so much for another great episode Also, I’m sure Irene has heard it before but she definitely could be a doggleganger with Florence Pugh 😂
Wow. Your story is so familiar. But this is exactly why I love these videos as it makes me feel less alone when I’m surrounded by others trying to push me back in. Thank you for sharing. ❤
I’m kind of blown away at how familiar, inspirational and straight up healing this episode was for me 🫣 The attitude and mindset of blonde badass Irene is *surprisingly* resonant. A fellow ex mo, but didn’t complete my MTC paperwork before my faith detonated due to my inability to stop lighting fuses that I wasn’t supposed to touch. I was raised in the shadow of breed’em young university and had struggled all my life with the emotionally paralyzing straight jacket that folks kept trying to get me to dress up in, with gender roles being a huge part. Once I got old enough to begin the prep for receiving the Melchizedek (Male….has a dick) priesthood and began hearing some of the “celestial truths” I hit a wall that I had no idea even existed. Once I found out that one of the supposed justifications of polygamy was that more men would fail to qualify for the celestial kingdom I didn’t understand why I was instantly filled with a deep, guttural and existential rage. The notion that the most perfect being created us, but somehow either didn’t understand, didn’t care or purposefully setup a system to shaft women due to men’s inadequacies was suddenly something that I could not and did NOT want to be OK with. I searched my mind and heart to figure out why there was no scenario where I could respect a god who caused this celestial injustice to define untold numbers of women. I love malicious compliance and my displeasure ended up with my doing things like dressing like Robert Smith from the Cure to bless the sacrament, and generally being a goth PITA. Whenever I heard about the subservient roles that the relief society forced women into, I was deeply furious even though I supposedly benefitted or got the better deal 1:35:42 from all this stuff. Later I had a bishop threaten to ex-communicate me because I had plutonic lesbian friends and would sometimes crash out on their couch…..I do not react well to ultimatums. At one point, in an admittedly arsehole move, I was driving home through the BYU campus late one night and saw something strange on one of the lawns. As I got closer I realized they were construction paper flowers with women’s names on them, along with words like “love, family, humility” etc written on them. I was suddenly filled with rage at what seemed like an entirely age inappropriate infantilism of women my same age. I got back into the car, drove up onto the lawn and floored it, basically doing donuts on the lawn and destroying the paper flowers. I finally realized that the church felt like an existential prison, and the thought of spending 2 yrs of my life with a derpy 19yr old guy was a less attractive thought than pleasuring myself with a rusted cheese grater, I fled to the San Francisco, where ironically an ex GF who had gone on a mission herself and was still a believer, invited me to stay with her until I found a job because she knew that me staying in Utah would be the end of me. My mother lied about sending my new address to the local missionaries and I had to threaten to answer the door in a state of undress the next time they visited before she admitted it and called them off. Later I finally came to grips with being transgender and FINALLY all of the rage I felt about women’s roles and treatment in the church made complete sense. Thanks to both of you, watching this has really been surprisingly healing 💜
I think her crying so much as a child about things other children didn't even lose sleep over, was a sign her brain was struggling very deeply with the manipulation.
I agree, yet this woman was not an adult when she joined, and her family was very involved in this process.... I know adults who are still surprised by what they thought "was true." Yet, found out later how they took these issues, were manulated- I myself, went through this same thing, and I'm much older now. 🤔
Wow. What an amazing story. For my three months as a Mormon, I realize I really dodged a bullet. Her comment that her separation process has taken years makes me feel like I need to be easier on myself. I've only really started deconverting in the past year or so. And I still have moments of anger from the feeling of being lied to. Not just from Mormonism, but from the Catholicism I grew up on and what I've learned of Christianity over time. It's definitely a difficult process to move through and out from religious beliefs and dogma.
What have you learned of "christianity"? IMHO, these religions and cults are not Christianity. These 501C3 chuches have issues (some more extreme than others). Don't follow man (people), follow Jesus. Anyway, that's where I'm at. Can't stand the "blab it and grab it" and/or mega churches that tell people what they want to hear (tickling their ear). Just saying, please don't lose faith because of false teachers. Your discernment brought you out of these churches. That's a good thing.
First I started with Dianetics at Berkeley Cal. Then I went with Jehovah Witnesses, Finally I ended up 3 years with the Vatican cult. Then I tried Church of Christ in Knoxville TN. I also did the Stadium Televangelists, and Baptists! Then I tried the Born-Again crap. Mormons too,k even dabbled in Pillars of Islam! Also tried 7th day Adventists But NEVER from Any of them, EVEN the Dianetics, - did I feel some sort of CONTROL, I could not just walk away from, or tell my peers of EACH one, who were trying to save me, to F! off. And always they all left me alone! This Psych Control video is Horse Sh***! NOBODY controls you, and U can even call the Police on your own teen daughter, or Husband & get them arrested! T.F! is this Chick talking about?
Ok this has absolutely blown my mind. This is so accurate. I left the church when I was 17 or 18 and I have struggled with all of these things and I'm almost 40. It's extra hard to give myself grace to remember it will maybe be a lifetime process. Thank you.
More than two decades is plenty of time for normal people to move past these things. You are obsessed with the Mormons. You should be embarrassed. You obviously have unfinished business with them. Why else would you come to these sites to tell us about your teenage exit from the church? All this time...move on already. wow
I am only 77 yrs old. I have served 3 missions totaling 41 months. Never at any time have I felt the least bit of mind control. I am a successful retired business owner. No mushroom here. Father of seven. Moroni 10: 4-5 tells us how to find truth. LDS in no way remotely resemble Scientology nor JW. We simply do not shun others except possibly the truly evil in the world.
I can so resonate with not being allowed to feel anger! It's a necessary feeling to have and if you're taught how to handle your feelings in Healthy way you get to learn so much about yourself as well as your needs as well as the world around you. I only learnt how to manage my feelings in adulthood but I am so grateful to have this knowledge now.
I can hear your pain in your stories. You both describe it well! It's like women are damned if we do and damned if we don't. I'm currently watching "Call The Midwife" series as well as your videos. All my women's issues are resurfacing in my head. My experiences are mild compared to yours and others... and mine still changed who I am.... and in mostly negative ways. From 30 years old, I've reached out for help, worked hard... and have found healing. We women must reach out and support each other. We need to be able to identify when patriarchal systems work against us. We also need to realize that not everyone is toxic and that we need to surround ourselves with affirming energies. I'm a recovering Southern Baptist, SA surviver, and emotional abuse surviver... on a journey of awareness and healing...and also mentoring others around me in ways to help them find their strength and fulfillment. A hand up to receive help and a hand down to pull others up behind me. After I found a strong hold... I changed how I raised my kids (sons)... to teach them to value women and themselves equally.
This interview is my favorite yet. Irene is such an amazing presence, and I so appreciate this dialogue. Thank you both. AND The Ecologist = a true chaplain.
What you guys were saying about anger really resonates. It took me seeing a therapist to realize that I even had so much anger after leaving the church, and she told me that it was normal. Healthy, even. She said, “the part of you that is angry is the part of you that cares the most, because it’s the part of you that knows you didn’t deserve to be treated the way you were.”
I just found ur channel and I'm fascinated- and girl I admire the way you interview. So empathetic, attentive, layered questions.. you're educating ppl and truly healing victims, and giving them courage and validation of their feelings to leave.
Exmo from Sweden here. It’s astounding how similar out stories are, no matter where in the world we live, isn’t it? Astounding and disturbing. Left the church “quietly” more than 20+ years ago and haven’t realized until watching vids like this one, how the quietly part is actually a thing…damn. 😐I did however turn to music as well and released an album 10 years ago processing my past and delayed teenage rebellion I guess.. Fun fact: one song is called “Chameleon”., just like Irene mentioned, you certainly feel like one once you start seeing through the cracks…🙃 I’m now in the process of writing my second album and a lot of the material there is still tied to my background as it is indeed the unwanted gift that keeps on giving, still uncovering hidden truths about my core identity…I’m just so glad I saw the fallacies when I did (it was actually when I went to college in Idaho/Utah my faith started started to waiver, ironically enough haha) and found someone outside the church and that our son will never experience what it’s like to grow up in a high demand religion. Thanks again for sharing, we’re stronger together. ❤
My son was in the Peace corps in El Salvador, and whenever he felt sorry for himself due to living in a developing country, he’d just look at the Mormon missionaries and feel better about his lot in life.
I was raised in the Mormon religion with prevalent alcohol, verbal, & physical abuse. I officially left the church in 2016 after my Mormon dad died. I just listened to Irene's Entropy today. Let me just say, Reap What I Sow actually made me tear up when you sing that you are living with yourself. I am SO happy I listened. I'm not all that into country music, yet I loved your songs. Also, I was pleased to find much of your music also has a great rock sound that is much more my style. A bit of a Joan Jett vibe. Nightmare, Persephone I, II, & III are incredible to hear! Thank you so much for sharing.
Me again. I'm listening to this video again now as a fan of Irene's Entropy, the band, and after watching (& liking) most of the Cults to Consciousness episodes related to Mormon/FLDS episodes. "Quetico" deserves to be a mainstream/viral song! I love "Identity", & "Colorado". My 13 yr old and I listen to your songs so much! We await more albums! Shalise, let me just say, the first time I saw you was last year or so on an episode of "Who was I?" I'm so happy for you as a fellow mother, also, I feel like you and your mom are incredible warrior women! Thank you for having this channel!!!! 💜 Love and Light to you, your family, & your guests!!!!
Several years ago, I inadvertently helped a woman leave Mormonism. I had spent a fair amount of time studying different cults (Your stories have added so much more, though). One day a co-worker (Cindy) came into my office and asked me in a conspiratorial whisper (and almost giggling), "Do you know what John just said to me?" "He asked me, 'Do you guys still wear that skin-tight underwear?'" Somehow, Cindy had come to the conclusion that I was Mormon. I felt trapped! As gently as I could muster, "Cindy, I'm not Mormon." Her eyes got huge and both hands flew to cover her mouth as she started to back out of my office. I said, "It's ok. I know about that stuff. I've read the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. It's OK." Even though her hands still covered her mouth, she nodded and backed away. A few days later, she came back and wanted to know why I had read those things. I told her I just wanted to know what they believed. That began a series of visits where she would ask me, "What does the Bible say about 'xyz'" I would look up relevant verses and show them to her to read. I didn't try to interpret it. She would inevitably say, "My bishop says it means...". I'd ask what she thought. it was always, "I don't think it means that [what her bishop said]." Eventually, she decided to leave the Mormon Church. I walked the path with her as long as I was able as she faced losing her family. She moved out of state and we lost contact.
I lived with a Mormon family for a year as an exchange student. I came to loathe my time with them. Coming from very secular Norway, being treated like a domestic slave supervised by a glaring patriarch was so incredibly off-putting. They were furious that I never chose to partake in the sacrament and refused to attend church with them after 3 months. In hindsight, they probably expected a convert that would elevate their standing within the congregation. When I went home I never looked back.
I'ma be honest, I never really fully trusted ANYONE in my church enough to talk about how I was doing stuff with my boyfriend (who is now my husband of our daughter). They even confronted me and asked if I was doing stuff with him and I always just said no, and didn't really get too phased by it. It did make me feel bad at first, but I knew they weren't asking cuz they cared about me. Leaders just always felt very judgemental to me as a teenager, and I even thought my peers were the same way, so I made friends outside of the church (plus my boyfriend). I attended church one extra year on my own after moving out, kind of knowing I didn't rly believe in every single piece of the religion. Then I stepped away to see if I was truly missing out on "true happiness," and turns out it made me happier leaving. Never looked back. Don't talk to my parents about it. I just tell them I don't believe in it anymore, and thankfully they don't pry much about it. I feel bad for those who went thru intense moments like this. I cried the first few times I had sex but I felt God probably didn't care that bad, and I knew I wouldn't stop doing it, so there was no point in repenting. I lied at the interviews and just tried to avoid temple trips. 😅 (they were boring anyway). I got slut shamed and shit talked, but luckily I knew those people weren't important in my life. I hope other people going thru that can recognize that early on so they don't beat themselves up, and deepen the trauma. Anyone going thru anything like this, just remember there are way more important characteristics that determine someone being a "good person" than what you do sexually- like how you actually treat people around you.
Thank you! Love the diversity of experiences you share. I learn so much from each one. You have such a lovely way interviewing. I found you from Jake Altworldly. ❤
Thank you, THANK YOU, for putting to words the parallels between religious trauma and other types of trauma. When you have both religious trauma and nonreligious trauma, it has been my experience anecdotally that you can feel as if you need to be able to point at a trauma response and say "this is rooted in my religious trauma" or "this is rooted in my (other type of) trauma" in order to try to work through it, and sometimes, those lines are REALLY unclear. It has taken me a very long time to convince myself that I don't need to be able to do that in order to respect what has happened and how it has affected me, and not being able to say "this for sure comes from religious trauma" doesn't diminish the impact of it. If your statement in this video can help even one person avoid the amount of work I had to put in to get to that point, you have done something absolutely amazing.
Oh, my sweet, brave sisters! What a magnificent story! As an escape' from the same prision, I enjoyed every moment of this. I will look for future episodes of Cuts to Consciousness as well as following Irene's Entropy. Blessings to both of you!
Thank you so much for sharing, especially about anger. I’ve been feeling like a monstrous destruction-machine as my anger comes back online, and it’s taking me (what I feel is) too long to get back under any sort of control.
Thank you, I remember saying several times, "May I never be worthy" Usually when they wanted me to perform an act of hate, or violence on another mormon or "other". My mom was a firm believer in welcoming people to the church, love should convert not violence. Respecting a new member because they are not told everything before conversion and are now working towards their worthiness. No sub-membership for another race anymore. She devoted her life to breaking the glass ceiling within the faith through the doctrine and covenance to equate women in the leadership of the church. I loved what my mother believed, however, I could not in my heart of hearts convert. I could celebrate with her when she did, everytime.
I finally figured out about the shame when i was sexually abused... it was not my shame I was feeling. It was a reaction of the horror and shame I felt that there were people like that I the world. People who just wanted to use others without regard to others. It was a feeling of "what did I ever do to deserve this" and the abusers will make up some reason. It is also the helplessness over the situation. We feel the loss of the Lord and the way it was supposed to be which we feel instinctively the loss. When it is taken from us, we do feel it.deeply.
Hey Girls, I just thought I'd jump in and say hi. So I was born and raised in an FLDS cult, ran away when I was 16, and ended up making some friends that were LDS, and I was baptized, severed the mission, etc. My thing is that because I was raised in a crazy cult, I wasn't born in the hospital, but I didn't have a birth certificate or any paperwork. So, one night, my stomach is hurting really bad, and I end up at the hospital. The doctors discover that I have a REALLY BAD heart condition, and I was born with it. So, about 7 months later I I was able to get on the waiting list for a heart transplant. About 10 months after that, I'm going on a mission. This was back when you still had to be 21 to be a Sista missionary. Anyways I was the first sister missionary who had had a heart transplant to go on a mission. I'm an atheist now, or a shut up and mind your business, and I will to, kind of gal.
This has been an amazing podcast. I watch one of the Mormon influencers in Instagram talking about his business success and he said that he went to Brazil for mission in the Mormon Church sooooo he knows how to sell. Irene confirm this. And the story… great one. Love your podcast Shalice.
I’m an old lady from Taiwan, you young ladies are so articulate and intelligent with such a good sense of who you are, who you really are. Mormon theology is very similar to Chinese (Taiwanese) cultural moral and ethical code of conduct. I respect you and learn from you. 👵🏻🍵🌈🧠🌈
Thank you so much for this episode. I could relate to a lot of stuff that Irene shared. I am grateful for this platform, it helps me in so many ways. Great spot for awareness and freedom for people who experienced this awful church abuse. My dad almost sold our farm to give the money to "God" /the church. I am just in awe of all the daylight robberies that are happening in the name of God.
Surely you know that everyone at the temple on the same day gets the same "new name". Nothing special. I didn't realize this until I attended two endowment sessions for two ancestors back to back. Both my grandmothers got same temple name. Another day I did my great grandmother's endowment. Her given name was Ruth and the name for the day was Ruth. So her temple name was switched to Eve. All this mystery and mystique about your new name becomes awfully mundane when you realize your new name was based on the day you received your endowment and all temple patrons receiving their endowment that day also got the name you got.
I want to thank you for this truly honest testimony and can testify that I have gone through some of this as I am a Mormon but never fit into the Molly Mormon mold and felt a lot of guilt until i felt nothing. "Irene" described it perfectly. I am permanently inactive and happier with my life because of it. Thank you for this channel.
Brought up LDS, by the time I was 13 I’d been SA’d by 36 different men, all in the church. At 8 & 12 to meet with the bishop I felt like I was as bad as a murderer bc of chastity and morality.
The name Irene means peace and I am in awe at how much you express yhe true peace of being who you authetically are. We call the expression of being fully authentic, the Christ consciousness and it is so inspiring to see so you, and so many of us, who have been through all that doctrination and rising from the ashes to give everything we can to return to our true nature as human beings. We may stumble and fall many times as we do so, but we are giving it our all and that is enough. Truly inspiring, Irene.
As an ex-Catholic when I first heard of temple interviews I thought it was like the process of confessing one’s sins to a priest like I often did, however after listening to interviews like this one I’m starting to think it’s worse because at least I often told my darkest secrets to a priest I barely knew (and sometimes could do it without him seeing my face) and most times I wasn’t asked questions as specific as the ones you mentioned.
What a fun conversation! Each guest is so unique and brings their own energy. I appreciate and acknowledge the really hard interviews, and I also enjoy interviews like this that are a bit lighter.
THANK YOU!!! This was truly one of the best podcasts I’ve listened to. Both of you are so well spoken, articulate, generous, kind and authentic. While I wasn’t raised Mormon, I left a highly controlling, fundamentalist patriarchal religion that I was born into. I relate more with ex-Mormons more than any other group, so to hear your stories and opinions are more valuable than I am able to verbalize. You both are so inspiring and encouraging. I look forward to another episode with Irene. 💜💜💜
Although I’m not exmo, more exevangelical, this is by far THE most relatable testimony I have EVER had the pleasure of listening to. This channel really does care and does help people. Thank you for giving me things to think about and assess within myself. You’re both brave and extremely courageous women who give me hope that maybe one day I’ll be able to reach my mother and pull her up and out of her damaging belief system. Thank you from the bottom of my heart ❤
I was a convert to the LDS church and lasted a little less than a year. I was so desperate in believing and being good according to scripture, that I would listen to doctrine and covinence audio version from the LDS app on my way to and from work. That allow me to see all the lies they say from the get go and it was so easy to say, nope, definitely organized religion is not from me and this so called church is as far from the old and new testament as it can possibly be. I met incredibly good humans on my time in, and it saddens me how they are so brain washed that they believe those that left will be harmful in their lives.
I LOVED this episode! I grew up the same as far as my ardent desire to be the holiest Catholic girl who ever lived. I’m an artist, so way back in Catholic school I had the best handwriting, which I used to write the homework on the blackboard in elaborate fashion. I designed the two huge bulletin boards in our classroom from grades 3 to 8. I sang in the Latin funeral choir, several funerals a week. I designed all the smelly purple mimeograph notices that went home to parents. I stayed after school every day to clean the convent and learn how nuns lived. I was chosen to climb a ladder and place a crown of real flowers on the statue of Mary’s head on her feast day, in front of the whole church. But I distinctly remember a feeling of ‘waking up’ around 13 1/2 when my hormones kicked in. I didn’t want to crown Mary. I stopped cleaning the convent and became interested in music. I saved my money from my freelance art jobs and work as a holographer to go to Europe with my boyfriend when we were 17. They let him in the Vatican in shorts with his arm skin showing, but me? They tried to sell me a giant black trash bag to wrap around my body for the equivalent of $5.00, which I didn’t have. It was 1976 and we were using the book “Europe on $10.00 a Day.” My boyfriend, now my husband, waited 2 hours for me to take a bus back to our room so I could change clothes. When I returned, I announced on the steps of the Vatican (to everyone and anyone) that I was quitting the Catholic Church. It felt incredible. Since then we’ve been to 35 countries and have no problem visiting the cathedrals all over the world, and I miss the smell of incense, but that’s all. My parents were upset until they died; we go back centuries as Catholics. Now there are none. 💕 Love your channel!
With all due respect, that is quite a strange reason to quit your religion. Because your clothes didn't fit the rules (which you could have known before) and because of $5? Your parents had every right to be upset.
Hi, I don’t come from a high demand religion or cult, in fact I’ve never been traditionally religious. I relate to your channel and the personal stories told so much after escaping an abusive relationship of 19 years. There are so many similarities and it makes me feel less alone. Thank you so much for what you do and for your guessed who tell their stories.
