This lady achieved more in her lifetime than you would in a thousand lifetimes. How dare you speak ill of her. You are typical of the narcissistic arrogance of modern Britain.
The socialists hated her because she supported the idea of being self-reliant, highly successful and intelligent, something labour supporters fail to achieve for decades prior to her premiership.
Carol Jones Dementia is heart breaking to have to witness. I saw my late Grandma descend very fast into Dementia after she fell in Cwmbran Town Centre. Within 4 months she thought her Grandpa Watkins was still alive (died 1941) & cried when I reminded her that her Dad had been dead 30 years :-(
My late mother and father had dementia and the change in them was dramatic and unbelievable. My parents had six children and worked nearly all their lives to raise us. They were the breadwinners that fed us and clothed us when we were children. The thing about dementia is you lose the person that you once knew and it's very upsetting.
Alalak Jakaja it didn’t mean that she deserved to have dementia. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. You also see a lady who was very powerful and part of Britain’s history in an extremely vulnerable condition.
@dazmin100 I disagree on all counts. Please provide your references on all counts: a) Destruction of the manufacturing base (this was, in fact Labour and the Unions - Thatcher closed them already destroyed) b) Which family silver? Do you mean she repaid Britain's debt? c) easily avoided war? Research more...there were negotiations going on all the time...but - should she have let the Argentinians just have the islands? d) War crime. Which war crime? The sinking of the Belgrano?
God bless you, my dear Lady. Your supporters here in the USA will always remember you as an inspiration to ideals that help us do our best to serve ourselves and our country.. RIP
@Bdcorpuschristi "There little money for college. I had to eliminate "was" because I was 3 over the limit. I figured you would get it. My experience in private enterprise taught me more than I would ever imagine about the acquisition of wealth."
@dazmin100 As I said - I read this article and commented on it. It is not incorrect, but it does not prove your point. Spending cuts affected all areas. It is an interpretation that Mrs. Thatcher therefore "provoked" or "wanted" a war. There is absolutely no evidence of that except allbeit not unfounded dislike of what one perceives was her character or her behaviour. I for one do not commend her naiveté at that point but it was definitely not one of malice or warmongering.
When all is said and done, though for many of us she was the enemy and the enemy of freedom for many people and territories subjugated by her conquering country. She is one of God's creatures and as such, I am motivated to say, May Almighty God have mercy and compassion on her!
I may not have agreed with her all the time, but at least she was decisive and had firm belief, drive, direction and conviction. It beats the insipid wavering PC navel-gazing that seems to preoccupy us so much today.
@HeinzHornsby by the governer and people of the islands not to remove the ship as they said Argentina would undoubtedly invade. So basically intelligence, the military and the locals all knew what would happen and warned her, she wanted a war for the same reasons the junta did.
@mellowNdark That's a true point and it's certainly something that should not have happened. Funnily enough, on this occasion, she conceded to the cabinet. She never wanted to privatise British Rail....for good reason.
War is never something to be happy about. I had a great grandfather who was in the 1916 easter rising, he killed soldiers. (i had no relatives involved in the troubles). He wasnt proud of what he done but he definitey was NOT ashamed of what he done. If he had to be one or the other, he wouldve been proud. The man who asassinated mountbatten did to mountbatten what mountbatten has been doin on thousands of INNOCENT people all his life. The IRA were soldiers, no different from anyother soldier
She us 6 months older than the queen . She was a remarkable woman , people will love and hate what she stood for but she left an indelible mark on britain and the world. In her honor she should have received the title of Countess instead of the lowest peerage title of Barronesss
@HeinzHornsby a citation can not be classed as a source.I always go for direct sources (or memory, if I am in a flow, which obviously is not a greatest source either.), ballots were certainly taken at local level as your piece implied as opposed to stated, these men lasted a year on strike with zero money except from benefit concerts,donations etc often going with out food I think you will find that a national ballot would have passed WITHOUT ANY QUESTION (opinion). Whole communities would not
She wears the chain she forged in life, 'tis a ponderous chain' she forged it link by link Cameron is working on his too They both deserve their fate. There are no spirits coming to offer them salvation, they are beyond redemption.
@Bdcorpuschristi It’s not a simple question, but you want a right sided answer, economically the country would be better off, if we talk simply about tax bases and balances. However I would think from a socially democratic perspective how this individual became wealthy. Was it through product or service development, industrial endeavors etc all of which create jobs and are intrinsically better for country and economy? Or was it financial market gained wealth?
@HeinzHornsby the freedom of each individual to show their own social responsibility as you do NOT need the state to do this for you and indeed it is more expensive for everyone if the state does it. It is because of the greed of mankind, not because of her policies, that people do not see this. It is a flaw in Thatcher to not allow for this fact...but it remains a noble idea. People turned around and just spent what they didn't have. This goes against everything she believed in. But it is fact.
@erico1977 I'm sorry. My mistake. I read something below and attributed it to you. I am only corresponding with you. Where I come from, people were waiting for government handouts. I really believed at the time that that was the way to survive, but at the age of 13 I got a job in an ice cream shop, and the owner gave me a lesson in economics that still rings in my ears. His predictions for this country have all come to pass. Our welfare system is destroying families..
What were you driving while witnessing all this. Would you have felt better if no Bentleys were present. How many people did you feed while you were there? Just curious; you don't even have to respond to that one.
@HeinzHornsby Copy your whole phrase into google and search it, tell me if you can identify the source, the tone of the piece is anti labour at the outset and there is no station given for the information and I only looked at the 1 page containing 8 different sites with the exact same phrasing, who wrote it first, wikipedia provides no citation to it can not be classed as an actual source. Wikipedia is great as far as it goes but it is written by anyone who wished to enter a piece and without
Maggie, darling !!! The world loves you !!! Specially China, India, Brazil and Russia, you disgraced England, but you made them soooo happy and free to go on their way !!!
@HeinzHornsby to have Diana Gould criticise the PM on public TV was nothing more than a PR gag. What Gould maintained was false - we know this now from the facts. Understandable how one could have felt this way...but nevertheless-it was false. What people do not understand and it is to her detriment that she should have allowed more space for this, is the difference between socialism and social responsibility. She was not cold, she was not against the working class, she was for discipline and
@HeinzHornsby They were not hers to sell at all, they belonged to to the country and the children of those who had paid for and built them, I also have no doubt thatcher was heavily back handed from certain interests to set the prices so low, or was she not an economic whizzkid with no concept of how to value a corporation, 1 or the other must be true.Also if during a picket both bbc and itv showed police retaliating against miners whereas the police had charged the miners. This was explained
@aeronuk1 She had a disdain for our people which was evident in her dealings with the Irish government (thought we were all stupid micks). But you can’t nor can she blame a previous administration for letting men die, she had the ultimate power to meet what are basically civil rights. She chose not to. Also shannon rightly or wrongly may be technically British so he is more than entitled to comment.
@erico1977 Eric, we are finally getting to points where we disagree. It is not a sin to do something for one's self. In fact, it is an American ideal. We had about 8.4 million millionaires in this country by the end of 2010. It was nearly a million more than in 2007. I believe that made the country better off. Doing things for ourselves cumulatively gives us all a rise. To understand the problem, you must look at more than the poverty. Encourage industry to expand with fewer taxes.
@HeinzHornsby will want their money back. Trading with other countries does not mean that there was a free market. Not all successful countries manufacture along the lines of slave wages..there are those that have high quality products and can serve markets. The tertiary sector became something new Britain thrived on, these services also exported. As I said....new pits are opening with new technology, maybe Britain will rejuvenate along these lines but NOT state owned and funded by the taxpayer
@dazmin100 Here is a quote from wikipedia, this is a communiqué from 23.4.1982: In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty's Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.
@ofotcnest I defend her on the ground that she is one of the most successful pms this country has ever had, and true leader of the economic build up and "reformation" in the 80s. I still stand by my point that all levels of society benefited greatly under Thatcher. The reason behind labour winning many elections is due to mainly the less well-off people in society in lesser developed areas voting for them no matter what, even though labour has proven to be twits and failures.
@dazmin100 Britsh nationalised industry belonged to the nation, that being each and every taxpayer as their money went in to subsidise it. NOT just each and every worker that worked in it. It had been poorly managed and the subsidising was no longer sustainable and due to the power of the unions the risk involved was immensely high. Undeniably there was coal and there still is....so privately owned collieries are now reopening. The picketing at the time was unlawful - period.
@aeronuk1 paying your wages! Ridiculous! Like the 20% raise the unions wanted in 1980/81 of which Thatcher gave them 16% and prepared for next time. I am almost inclined to say, that being able to hold a whole society at ransome because the material is required as a necessity of everyday life is certainly not an option a free society would want. And THIS is what destroyed it. I am sure though, you may be happy to hear that new mines are opening these days in Britain. Privately owned. Maybe
@HeinzHornsby Read the papers when they come out the end of this year. As for your sources....newspapers....I cannot believe for one moment, that any sane human being on the face of this earth would use newspapers as a "true" and unbiased source of information. She had such a devisive character and persona - the papers made millions off of it. Do yourself a favour and read the government papers that come out. You will already find, that should you mean the sinking of the Belgrano, that this was
@Bdcorpuschristi Best response of the day. Although it would be nice if you addressed the original question at some point in this game of swings and roundabouts. I have a wife and two children I worked many a tought job before I got to where I am. The irony to all this people like you where I come from are actually a model for social democracy not neo liberalism or conservatism. What was I saying about £2.50, or are you debating with so many people at this point you are mixing things up.
You can never please all of the people all of the time if you agreed with her or not i don't know anyone can look at this vid on a human level and say they are glad she is in this way says more about them than her disgusting.
I was having lunch at the Ritz Hotel on one occasion, when she entered the dining room. I joined all the other male diners in standing, as she took her seat at her usual table; unscripted and very moving; the 1st and only time I've been "starstruck"!
@@primmslimm7185 Other comments have been negative (fair enough), but are there any out in this forum who've led a bigger life, done something of equivalence, actually changed things; btw, as a young man, I didn't vote for her, I just reflect on that time, the issues and the outcomes.
I think your being very discriminating against working class people by saying they "scrounge of the state". Many people who are against thatcher and her policies were not receiving anything at all from the state, so how could they be scrounging? The ambitious got richer? Yeah thats the same kind of people, such as Bankers, etc, that have caused the global financial crisis that is going on today. Oh yeah, they got rich all right and caused the suffering of tens of millions in the process.
Increase jobs. The working class needs respect Thats what a union is for. I agree unions need reforming too but you cant have it all one way. You need to meet in the middle. If you shut out unions and shut out workers rights your just going to end up with higher unemployment. After all who wants to work for pennys when the company they are working for is making millions and billions? Dont the people who make that happen deserve some of the cut?
Your more than Welcome my Brazilian friend and thank you for your compliments also. lol yes Thatcher is an old hag dispised by half the planet, it was unfortunate that she survived the brighton bomb. Greetings to South America from Ireland, im looking forward to the World Cup 2014 in Brazil :)
@TheSunstar2000 I click to check and reply to your comment and I realized you've wrote 3 whole comments. Nice, racist much? That's hardly helping in your argument actually, considering you're hardly using rational facts and are just, in short, immaturely insulting people. You call us HKers 'Brit servants'? Ironically, you're no better than Mainland Chinese then, who called us 'British dogs'. Servants or dogs, at least we're not being silly~ :D And er, great? .... Shall I clap for you? 8D
@TheSunstar2000 lol I don't see what's the big problem here. o n o On the contrary, 'my' country happens to be Hong Kong, and I believe you misspelled 'she' as 'he'? Unless that (and all your grammatical errors) was (or were) on purpose... And even if I happen to be 'nice and blind' because I merely 'like' Margaret Thatcher, there's no reason for you to force your opinion on other's; which, funnily enough, was one of Mrs Thatcher's biggest faults.
@ShowPolitics because thatcher refused to give them political status she refused to give political status to member of uk parliment.she refused rights not only to the hunger strikers but the nationalists. i didnt say 18 of my people that was the other guy. but he is right they are my people.he means 18 irish men. what are on about economic stability, interest rates, growth,that stuff does not impact the people of ireland. what conspiracy are u on about.tell me what am i lying about.
What on Earth was the government supposed to do? Prop up economically unviable mines because of 'family traditions'? 'Me dad was a miner and his father before him'? Sorry, but the economy has to move with the times and subsidising uncompetitive industries is just a waste of good money.
Actually, the Russian tanks were better designed and equiped than the German tanks. Just because the German Tiger tank was profound and well known, doesnt make it the best. Just do your research, Russia had the best tanks in WW2.
@ShowPolitics im always sober.no u did not make a valid point. how can u say about the h block hunger strikers that u need evidence to prove that starved to death at the hands of thacther.
wind yourr neck in. Yourr quoting one person who did well for themselves (Thatcher) yet ignoring the millions of people who lost their jobs, homes, etc due to her policies....enough said.
Actually if you read up on the FACTS, far more british soldiers died in fights with the IRA than IRA soldiers. The IRA has been smashing up Brit soldiers since the start of the 1900's lol
Yeeeoooo, the Paras went out with a BANG in the "Warrenpoint Bomb" yeeeooo the IRA got 18 paras that day and also Lord Mountbatten, Prince Charles favourite uncle yeeeeeooooo!!
I wrote all in another comment, but it abvius that in a Government of 11 and half years there are some things not very right, the fact is that Margaret, because of the uncompetent labourist at government early, had to care more about a devasteted economy than the single ones, an example was to prefere the indirect taxxes! And what about the terrorism? She never game up on terrorism, never, from the arabe ones to the Falkland War and IRA!!
Oh no, they didn't kick out her!! Just remember, at the first turn she had more than an half of conservatives with her, but she resigned cause she was long way better than her party.. well, i admit than the pool tax wasn't a very good tax, but for example both Howe and Heseltine gave their resignation because of european conflicts when, i repeat it again, she was perfectly right!
@Bdcorpuschristi Ireland offers 12% corporate tax and with a glut of empty world class facilities it makes sense, a highly educated workforce especially if you are in biochemistry or high-tech industries. That’s a classic, you think that man is a social democrat but none of his policies outside of obamacare even come close, Vote winning policies with little thought for how to actually make them work,I’d like to see what he does in the next 4 years. Romney is a scary alternative for all sides
@erico1977 So, are you saying that we should give up the fight and let more people gravitate to drugs? I don't think we have fought seriously. Thousands are being murdered just south of us by the cartels, that's how the bosses get away. I think allowing more people access to drugs by legalizing them is foolish. Does the name Bernie Madhof ring a bell? We have to catch them first. Didn't you mean embezzled? There we go with loaded words again.
@Bdcorpuschristi I am the antithesis to you people, reasonably well off not a bit perturbed by high taxation, pro free healthcare and welfare protection, all my staff are union workers. My products sell, I don’t compete with china but have made products that are priced at a fair rate without $10 a day labor. I will not lie the fuel prices and freight rates have assisted me but hey the playing field needed leveling a little. I also believe in free education from daycare to masters.
@Bdcorpuschristi Look I have tolerated you playing the smartest guy in the room; i have tolerated your somewhat condescending tone. But now I have to listen to an explanation on manufacturing economics. Unlike you I created my wealth through manufacturing in a just society, the factory still operates within its means the employees have a secured fund that ensures should we hit trouble they have 5 years protected salary to see them through, that is not a governmental requirement.
I meant try to feed spinach to a baby. I don't expect the mathematicians to teach it; they seem to be enraptured with their own abilities. It took me years to develop what I do, and I don't apologize for making money with it. I would rather have been an athlete. My contempt is not for the poor; you must grasp that. My contempt is for the poor habits that lead to poverty. So many of our young would be so much better off if they would adopt better habits & bypass poverty .
@Bdcorpuschristi Time or all your will in the world will not move my political opinion, if you consider i used to think somewhat conservative until I saw through the lies and propaganda. Now the work week starts we can take this up next weekend again. But I will keep an eye on the inbox so feel free to keep mapping out those principles and ideals for me. Hope you enjoyed the game, it was a great finish.
@Bdcorpuschristi Firstly I come from Ireland there was no Celtic tiger when I was growing up, we dreamt of the American dream. But I have my own mind and I read about the decimation of industry in America. I kept reading and yeah people made it, but that was a tiny few, the same tiny few who don’t try. Most got a job or had to work two jobs to maintain their way of life. Under Reagan their rights were no longer protected and neither were their jobs, tell me why would I be impressed by Reagan.
@Bdcorpuschristi I think you mean unbridled when I was in china that’s what I saw, a disgrace of a country, India the same Bentleys cruising past hordes of people who hadn’t food, it was a visual depiction of all that I read in dickens except with skyscrapers, these vulgar disparities in wealth cannot be good. Windy does not mean stupid it means full of wind loads of unnecessary words and no point to it.
@erico1977 In private enterprise we fire the incompetent. I'm not sure what you mean by running the show...which show? We place a high regard to those with proven success. We talked about the word "hero." My heroes are the ones who can pool land, labor and capital together and run a successful business; they are saints in my book. They create jobs and raise the GDP in a solid way. Who do you think would be more qualified to "run the show." Incompetent gov't mgrs get bigger budgets.
@erico1977 Eric, at no time will I accuse you of being stupid; you are not held to that standard, as for ignorant, who isn't. I will not change your mind about the philosophy you have chosen, only time will do that. It would be a boost for you to visit China and India to see the power of the market in action there, even if it is somewhat bridled. I mention India because of the heated arguments I've had about the tremendous influence GB had in its development.
@erico1977 The first sentence is not entirely correct. I know many in this country who came from meager means and went on to become multimillionaires. Our country is better off because of them; there are many of meager means and others of upper-middle class status who simply did not try. Their own vulgar habits precluded any success at all. Now, this may not be your own observations; most of the chaps I know from GB have done very well here. Their values paved the way.
@erico1977 I think a small part of the world is a better place because of what I've done, teaching hundreds of young people how to master mathematics is something with which our gov't run schools are having difficulty. I have found a solution that is making a comfortable lifestyle for me and my family; it beats the hell out of janitor hero work. I charge the wealthy a bundle and I donate my time to the poor, in case you think I don't care about them. It's easier to teach rich kids.
@erico1977 Is it possible to ethically attain material wealth by educating oneself while holding a working class hero job? You don't have a wife and children, do you? There was no way that I wanted to remain a janitor; there are many better jobs that pay more because of their marginal product, plus, they are slightly more enjoyable to perform. Aren't there jobs there that pay more than the 2.50 you complained about? Nothing stops you from learning, except your own inertia..
@Bdcorpuschristi Name calling, you have these assumptions of me, I am educated, I came from a working class area, I have personal wealth, I have a social conscience. I will not take lessons in social mobility from a person who has disowned their roots. My upbringing awakened me to injustice, it still exists. At this point considering you are the one who writes like a college professor one minute and a child the next you think I need a word like catching bracketed with explanation
@Bdcorpuschristi A wise man once said a group of fools has equal power to a fool alone; One, Eric is a male name I would have assumed as a person of the world that would have been apparent. Two don’t go looking for solace in others it was you after all who proclaimed all who vilify Maggie were poverty cases of feeble mind. Because I refuse to subscribe to your ill informed propaganda doesn’t make me lost it makes me important.
@Bdcorpuschristi At no point did I ask for your help. I don’t involve myself in discussions I don’t know about, as when I don’t know I listen or read and I am open to being educated (certainly not occurring here). I await your answer which I suspect isn’t coming as you haven’t a notion what you are talking about.Sad really your projected image led me to believe we would have a valid discussion, but you are just windy. The reality is I cant help you.
@Bdcorpuschristi Really, you are reduced to pointing out a spelling mistake when you composed a grammatically indecipherable paragraph previously. Whatever respect I was gaining for you has disappeared with such a petty retort.I ask did you understand my train of thought. I reply off the cuff and don’t always take the time to re read. Either you address the original question or avoid subjects you have a very minor and distorted knowledge of. Sad man i thought we were getting somewhere
@Bdcorpuschristi You can’t examine poverty in the same way, the key creator of poverty as we have all seen without own two eyes in recent years is job loss or worse still as in America a minimum wage system that is a joke and unreflective of the actual cost of living. It is a very minute percentage of people who are impoverished by their own doing. But what hope for the child of a junkie when right politics make any attempt of betterment unaffordable
Part 2: Allow me to ask you a simple question. Would England be better or worse off if Her population acquired one more multi-millionaire? Think about it carefully; your answer will determine the future of our discussions. Try to calm down and control your temper and your vitriolic rhetoric. (I seldom refer to Wikipedia; its sources are suspect. You should know by now that I am anything but a middle of the road fox viewing American. Fox has interesting points to us on the right.
@Bdcorpuschristi You have lost me but i imagine that’s because you haven’t a notion what you are talking about, I have studied economics not to boast just so you are aware my question was genuine. I want you to map out her ideals and principles that are so beyond my grasp. I understand inequality, I understand cronyism, I understand corruption, I understand elitism. Have I missed anything?
@dazmin100 they were "producing"....and were being falsely told by the unions it was at a profit and were led to believe that it was class warfare. Things were far from perfect...and even the statistics are divise such as Thatcher's personality was. She was not everybody's darling and not everybody's demon - and I hope that Britain never again requires such measures - it takes a long time for the wounds to heal. However - the operation was necessary. The patient is better - but not yet cured.
@HeinzHornsby for that as it has been happening a long time but she set the tone, do remember when police used to fight each other to kneel on a suspects head while the ones left stamp on his hands (again illegal while under oath(actually it is illegal not on oath but no one seems to be doing anything about our gestapo in blue. Anyway the point here is I grew up in a very anti thatch pro labour part of the country and supported thatch as what I saw on TV made her seem right, then when some
