Forward Facing Sonar- Where Does It END? - MLF Stage 2 Santee Cooper (podcast) 

You guys fish for a living, I bank fish. I’ll never tell any of you how you should feel or fight with you about an opinion. This was a fun clip. Just know how blessed you guys are and how many of us watch these wishing we were welcome on the casting couch. Good luck fellas.

I think they will have to do something. It's affecting the triple A level and co-angler participation in those tournaments. Not too many co-anglers want to sit in the back of the boat while boaters float around in the middle of the lake casting at individual fish they see with FFS.

The best set of guys to talk a FFS. I love that you guys support each and great friendships. Let no one or nothing break up this awesome team and friendships.

Bass thumb straight out the WOMB 😂☠️ bro yall kill me

I think FFS is a wonderful tool but I do not believe it belongs in pro tournaments. Practice with it all you want but it must be off on tournament day. How about just some old school knowledge. You can practice and mark areas but in a tournament, knowledge should allow you to either find fish at your mark or figure out the movement. But I would like to see a reduction in available graphs that can be used on a boat during a tournament event. Also a size limit to keep the TV screens off the front of the boats.

That was one of the best Casting Couches I’ve ever watched 😮🤣🤣 But great answers and love seeing all y’all talk it out. Jacob is the man of reason and wisdom. DC is all fired up🔥🔥🔥

Y’all can’t see it from a weekend warrior’s perspective? We don’t watch MLF or BASS live to watch 50 of the best pros in the world stare at their screens for 8 hours. I think live viewership will continue to drop because of it.

I couldn't even begin to tell you how many hours I've burnt up chasing fish around on Toledo Bend and Sam Rayburn learning how to use Livescope and not catching crap. It's not even remotely close to as simple as some people make it out to be to Livescope fish but it's definitely unlocked more of Toledo Bend. Just watching yall on my home lake confirmed I still have a lot to learn because yall caught fish in places I never even thought of looking at. Great video as always guys keepem coming!!!

Man don’t worry about that DC… you can’t bore most of us. I’m in class right now, y’all Boyz keep teaching! 👍🏽

Guys I really appreciate yall talking this subject publicly…..I can tell you with 100% accuracy that bass at Lewis Smith will absolutely bolt when they feel that beam. Same thing at Chic in Tennessee!!!! FFS is here to stay so everybody needs to just embrace it and move on. Keep crackin em boyz, really enjoy watching how you all.

The #1 issue with forward facing sonar is it creates a “pay to play” sport. The average fisherman can’t afford a $2-3k unit to keep up.

Remember you guys are the ONLY tournament bass guys that release fish.... some lakes have over 200 boats every weekend...200+.... live well fish don't survive long term.... I'd like to see who can win without FFS .... you guys are my favorite pros and always watch all four of ya... your guys are the best

I am 51 years old and fishing has been a real part of my life since I was 3 years old. I would pond fish with my dad until I was around 20. I would bass fish for awhile then it was time to catch some bream to bring home and eat. Once I was old enough to bait my own hook and take the fish of my dad made me fish away from him and find my own fish. That was the best thing to happen to me. To be out in nature and find your own fish, just you against the fish. Around age 20 I started fishing at the city lakes. I had a trolling motor, battery, and a portable depth finder. I have never been one to use the depth finder to locate off shore fish. I love to fish shallow and throw at objects I can see. I do use the depth finder to find slightly deeper water. If you are in the back water and it is mainly 2 ft or less and you find some water, a ditch that is 4- 6 ft you may have for something special. I also look at water temp especially in the cold water months. That being said I do admire people who are able to find off shore areas and catch fish consistently. That is a skill. I don't believe live scope is the same though. Using sonar to locate areas that have fish , finding humps and creek channel bends with cover is not the same as forward facing sonar. This ffs is finding a fish and watching it while you present a lure and watch it react. Once you caught it you know to move on to another fish. There is no instinct as was once needed. Not the same as when there was no sonar. I don't care if you use ffs you can do what you want. I have noticed there are 2 types of fishermen. There is the one who loves the connection you get with nature from finding and catching fish, the sense of accomplishment from figuring it out and the love of the chase. Then there is the one who loves catching the fish and competing in a competition. They don't care if they are the one who finds the fish and figures it out for themselves. They would be fine if they were told where to go, what to through, and they are ok with watching it on a screen in order to catch the fish. I don't care because I can only live my life. I will not trade the excitement that comes from pitching a jig next to a stump in a row of stumps not knowing if I will catch 1 or 10 fish for anything. Not knowing or seeing what is about to happen is the joy of fishing to me. You all remember a time when you were fishing and didn't know what was going to happen when you cast by that stump, only to see your line jump or swim off. The excitement to set the hook on a fish that could be the fish of a lifetime was the whole purpose of fishing. Now a whole generation of kids will grow up with ffs and will not have that as their memory. Is ffs worth taking that away from the children? Would you give up all the fishing experiences you had with no ffs to only know what is like to have ffs? I will continue to fish with the excitement of not knowing what is going to happen on each and every cast. That is the path I chose and I would chose that for every kid so they took could have the love of fishing and not just the love of catching to compete. Thanks

Listen, you know I love all 4 of you guys. I watch all the videos all of you guys put out there. You guys make your living doing this. I told that to Mark in one of his videos. You have to use whatever tools are out there to give you a chance to get into the MONEY to feed your families etc. You do what you have to do. PERIOD. LOVE ALL OF YOU.

Words from the wise! Can't beat listening to yall fellas talk about fishing.

Excellent cast. I've always felt FFS was pushing it as far as technology goes. This podcast has made me definitely understand where you guys are coming from. In anyone's profession, you use the tool(s) that make your job easier. So use a dag blasted rc submarine if you have to and keep all 4 of you great roomies in the top 10 in every tournament. And finally, I was initially against the every fish counts format. I only follow you four guys and Scott Martin. Watch the Elites catch a few fish, watch MLF guys catch lots of fish? I'm choosing the MLF format. All of you are true ambassadors to this sport and I hope 1 of y'all wins every tournament. It's MDJ's turn, go hoist that trophy Mark.

West Coast does suck for fishing tournaments. But I gotta say, the heavily pressured lakes that we do have out here have trained me very well. I went to Minnesota a couple years back and was slaying bass left and right from the shore next to local anglers who were only catching one here and there.

Mark, Like I told you in your video and now with the other guys, if you are going to make a living bass fishing, you need all the tools available. Good video DC.

It def can’t go anywhere but it would be cool to see maybe a few tournaments where they can’t use it, just to mix things up

DC please get on the Elite series. You need to start striving for the classic!

I love it, love watching the guys use it and I love watching the tournament guys use them. Here is a way to look at the whole "spot lighting" analogy. If you were using a rifle, and your bullet flew at a 20 degree variance. Would you trust you'll hit the target? In other words somewhere within a 20 degree is your target, do you take the shot? The answer should be no way in the world should you take that shot because you can't swear you'll hit the target. Just because you have it, your not shining a flashlight directly at them. They just happen to be in the beam.

Bass needs to catch and release

Hey DC. Love you guys and use what ever you want to get it done! My question is do you think the lakes can sustain the fish ? Maybe not bass because it’s mostly catch and release. I remember back in the day only a few crappie guys fishing in the winter here in Missouri but now there’s tons of guys catching limits in a couple hours. The guides are even taking 2 or 3 groups out in a day instead of 1 trip. State Paddle fish records are being broken every week. Like I said I have no problem with it but just like you alls opinion on it. Keep them coming partner and best of luck this season!

Casting couch excellent name DC, this was very informative. As a bank fisherman you really got me thinking of what I need to do. You talked about over pressured banks, fish seeing lures nonstop. Don't have electronics but need to search for the fish out in the middle, got start thinking outside the box. Got start look for those ones wondering around lakes and ponds away from shore. All the best @ Santee Guys

You can't compare any other tech to ffs or anything that allows someone to see real time under water. I don't necessarily hate it or love it but I also get why people love it/hate it. But when real time info is available to people, to me personally I think it de-values the importance of knowing how to do all the other things that a good angler should know how to do. At some point, it will have to have some boundries put on it moving forward though, because these companies are going to keep pushing limits until its real time camera footage underwater. And that I'm not cool with. I also know that I am the odd ball, as I get more enjoyment out of the strategy to get the bite vs flipping them in the boat. Reading water color, weather, temperature, depth, contour and getting that thump is fishing to me.

I don't think people realize how much knowledge and time goes into being on top of the game. Good luck to all of you guys. Love the videos. Much better that the stupid shows on TV. Fish on.

Next is Apple vision pros live view you can see the fish all over the lake and pull up yearly migrations patterns for every lake using A.I @DC fishing

DC i am not a Bass Guy, i am a SaltWater Guy. But i love watching you Guys. thanks for the House discussion!! Roll Tide!!

I love your take on it DC. Just because you have it doesn’t mean you’re going to smash them. You need to know what’s going on as well as how to use your tools.

Aqua view been around since the early 2000’s,i know a guy that had one he used for stripers,it was a black and white screen,pretty cool back in the day

My son won Colorado state BASS Jr's last year and we are going to Jr. nationals this year in TN. The travel thing is crazy for us. He is 12 and wants to do this already and loves you all. It's insane. Also there is no way to raise money for him so we are trying to raise money selling baked goods. Let us know when and if you ever start anything on this side of the US. Love you all and love watching you all.

I do believe that if you are not up to date with technology then ur left behind everyone else that is not. DC here it is. How many times are you sitting in your deer stand and deer are looking up in a tree. It is the same thing. Use what is offered to you to make the best fishing or hunting experience you can have. This will never stop. Technology will never stop.

Love the podcast. Thank you for shouting out Kentucky Lake at the end as it’s my home lake it’s slowly coming back to what it once was

im a guy that watches to learn as a new fisherman i dont feel like i learn much from watching ff. i watched the team series and feel like i learned so much more from that series. i understand its what you guys need to complete these days. i personally think it should be a practice tool before the tournament. as for everyday fishing i think lakes should lower the limits if you are using it or catch and release only. just my opinion. great show guys keep them coming.

MDJ, your comment about Scott at Big O . . . He was using perspective mode to locate specific structure ( holes in the reeds, etc.). He wasn't riding around scoping fish. He spent the majority of his time fan casting to areas. This is what he said on Bassmaster.

Randy will have the camera rolling all night after this one...😂

I have forward facing sonar on both my bass boats. And I still will go out fishing and don’t even turn it on. As a bass fisherman you know in the back of your mind there’s a bass on that log, dock or brush pile. Ya I will use it to search things out but again I don’t use it 100% of the time.

I have been fishing for 30 plus years and WAS against FFS but after watching DC’s win last tournament and I have realized that there are so many fish doing so many different things using FFS will not really have that big of an effect on fishing but has opened up the entire year of fishing to those who had a tough time in the winter and opened the the entire lake through out the entire year. These fish will always adapt and anglers will continue to practice catch and release so fishing will not be hurt at all. The good thing is having the skills to turn it off and know how to catch fish shallow.

Wheeler, I met Greg a few months ago, and he told me about that story where yall fished together on the river and how you killed them on a chatter bait. Really nice guy. He thinks highly of you..

Been using LS for about a year and its an amazing tool to find areas where fish are hanging out. Ive noticed though that I get more bites when it’s off. I really wonder whether it makes them wary?

As a Viewer and an intermediate bass angler hoping one day to enter the bass circuit tourns, I started bass fishing as most did without sonars so that’s where my opinion is coming from. I believe compromise will be the answer here, years of fishing without the aid of technology brings about set”s” of skills that are nullified with the use of forward facing sonar, the tech does what it’s supposed to and that’s to make it easier to find and put more fish in the boat. The problem is when it comes to tournaments which is supposed to filter out the best of anglers, FFS not only evens the playing field but it also take from those anglers that have spent years acquiring skills that one can only acquire from experience the well deserved title of being one of the best . Now anyone who’s financially capable of having the technology without putting in much time on the water can become an “Elite” therefor it really takes away from the main goal of the tournament which is filtering out the best of the best. I believe the best solution is throughout the circuit… the first couple tournaments (qualifiers) should allow FFS to narrow down the competition then as it gets to the top tournaments it should then start to back away from FFS and solely rely on intuition and experience “raw skills only” your senses to determine the Elite amongst the competitors. Not only would this make Bass Master Elite so prestigious but it would give a great importance and respect to the game in which will be the “talk of the town” more than it does now with the anglers and viewers but it would also encourage challengers to really practice engaging with their environment more from mapping where the forage are, where the herrings are hunting, where the wind and currents are hitting, and creating activities in the water (food chain), to feeling out bottom composition and so forth etc. These are important skill sets that become insignificant with FFS. So In summary forward facing sonar should be use to thin out the competition then as it moves to the “Super Bowl” BMElite/classics; FFS should be banned and require only traditional raw angling skills. Really filler out the best of us.

Love when these guys are together so entertaining

What happens to all these fish being caught in 20 -40 feet deep after they been pulled up from deep and then they get released????

West coast guy here out of Vegas. Won bass teamed up with bass recently to help qualify for the bass nation Championship and opportunity to qualify for the classic.

I actually fished with Rick morris fishing a youth tournament may years ago throwing a chatterbait on lake Gaston in Virginia super cool dude

I'll be honest fellers I'm over the FFS talk not only we beating a dead horse we dug it back up and beat it again!!! 😂 Oh by the way love the content dustin 👊

MDJ got it on the head for West anglers travelling. I live on the Columbia River in Washington, and Lake Havasu, AZ is 16+ hours straight driving, the Cali Delta is 14+, Clear Lake, CA is 12.5, Lake Mead is 14, Shasta CA is 9 hours, Lake Powell is 14. It's rough to drive to all those Toyota Series or any of the other trail. I'd love a couple BFL divisions here, a Northwest and Southwest would be great!

In CT we allow boxing of fish while on beds, this state has also ruined many lakes and ponds by introducing grass carp. They virtually wipe out all vegetation for us.

I still have multiple yellow Skeet rods... The first time I used a chatter bait. I snapped my line and grabbed it. That braid sawed a cut in my finger and I still have the scar. So it's kinda hard to forget.

Haters gonna hate. And they hate and complain about the ffs because they don't have it or use it. If they were in you guys shoes, they would use it 100 percent. You guys focus is to get paid and it's just a tool to help you get a check. All fisherman are competitive but not all do it for a living. Only downside I see is the cost of it all. Quite costly for the average person. You guys rock. Best wishes to each of you this season. Tight lines.

I freakin love watching you guys lol. Yall are the best bass squad hands down. So for FFS I love it. If it was the difference that helps me win 100k I’d have transducers dripping off my boat, forward, backward up, down and around the corner… I’d have so many transducers I’d tell you where that bass was born and who his mom is. lol. Seriously tho, technology will never beat out evolution, the bass will learn just like yall are saying. Buttttttt, until they do idk about yall but I’m jerking lip scars in everyone I can trick into biting. I hope yall get 1st ,2nd, 3rd and 4th this weekend. Good luck to all of you.

Viewership and participation has already been affected. Not one single piece of tech has ever had this amount of impact. No skill will make you more competitive right now than that piece of tech. Yes some guys are ahead of the game and love it. When the whole field catches up with you on the tech you'll have a different opinion. Those fish aren't being targeted by the whole field yet. Not one smile while discussing it. Does it really feel right?

with the ability to see your FFS screen on TV watching is amazing and really allowed audience to be a part of what is going on. AMAZING.

Great video tonight, shout out to the camera man. You know what's up Brent. Keep it going you are doing a Great Job. The topics tonight where Awesome. There's always 2 side's of every catch 5 an weight them all over 2 lbs an release them.

You’re my favorite RU-vidr

This IS GREAT content! Love seeing the crew together!! I bet TZ is hate watching!!!

Love this podcast DC!! Keepem coming

Hopefully, with any luck, it ends with me having a live stream view of the direction I point my sonar, so I don’t even have to ask myself if it’s the right kind and caliber of fish. I can just see them and know what it is. That’s where I would love for it to end. You still have to catch them.

Being a Clear Lake local it’s fun bumping into Skeet and Ish Monroe from time to time. Had Ish roll up where I was struggling and just smash them in front of me on the good old yellow/blk frog

I don't have an issue with ffs, but for me I fish local tournaments and I'll be fishing a tournament on Santee Saturday. Problem is I don't have the funds to have livescope, but I'm fishing against over half the boats that have it. It makes it hard for someone like me without the funds to compete with people who know how to use it well.

Ole Randy and the bilge podcast will be up all night crying. Gotamighty

#NailedIt Dustin Connell. Fishermen/women have to have some knowledge to "get around" the fish.

Not quite the casting couch I was looking for but pleasantly surprised 🤷🏻‍♂️

I actually don’t mind watching you guys fishing on the FFS I still find it interesting I think most of the complaints I hear from fisherman is that even by technology standards it’s expensive but we’ll all just have to suck it up work some overtime save up and buy it if you want to stay competitive even at the local level

Your right you have to find them and I know you guys can do that and if you won’t to win you got to do their will be something else come up it’s the indestory like you said before I wish you the best I have watched you forever I live I Mooresville lndiana

I agree fishing is supposed to be about connecting with nature and the mystery of what is actually beneath the surface, and for me personally i just dont think more technology in life is a good thing, i feel like it disconnects us from reality im only 34 but i am very old school, ive been fishing since i was 5 years old and i have never used any technology and probably never will but thats just me, i think the vast majority of us average joe bass fisherman dont like it, but i completely understand why to tournament anglers its a tool,

"Speed" LOL from Heavyweights the movie!!!! I love that you and I are the same age DC. The demographic is me brother!

"Solely dependant" question is a GREAT question. I own a driving school and I warn against solely dependant on new technology like back up cameras. I think as a general rule you should always rely on your own senses primarily and ADD technology as an aid because.. . what happens if you don't have technology? I personally don't like the idea of losing a tournament because of one thing. How stupid would it be to only throw an jig and say, "Dang! I lost cuz they weren't eating a jig!" I like the tool analogy... It's just another tool but make sure it's not your only tool. IDK!!!! CUZ IT'S A REALLY DOMINATE TOOL THOUGH!!! This subject makes me crazy! Have a nice day

That was a great discussion re the box. I don't own one and not sure I will buy one as I am not a tournament fisherman.. but if I was, no way I could not have one. Its about the only way to be competitive.

Guys, I love sessions like this. This is awesome. I would fit perfect in this house. Let’s freaking go, gotomidy , Ding

Where does it end? Well with Zaldain's new video that dropped showing exactly what the pros are running electronics wise and cost.... wow.... amazing ...

Nice first round at Santee today ...watched score tracker..keep up the momentum for Thursday

With bass fishing, there is ALMOST an infinite amount of information to learn. Listen to OG anglers who have fished for many years and they will tell you quick that they are constantly learning. I love to try to figure fish out since I don’t do many tourneys anymore, and that’s the appeal to me

I love forward facing sonar for my private lake. I use it all the time. Have an MLF tourney where you use it one day and not use it the next. I guarantee the days without will be less in weight and numbers. Just fish!!! if you don't think there is an advantage you're high!!

Douglas Lake in TN has been pinged so much that now when you turn it on the fish leave the area. I don’t know if the hear it or feel it but I know they get gone.

Very fun and informative ! Really enjoyed the honest talk ! 👍👍

What is your strategy for fishing santee copper

Just curious to your opinion on what forward sonar will do to the sales of lures? Now most ppl using forward sonar throw a single jig head and a piece of plastic?

Love this 😂 , but I always said FFS is kinda like bed fishing , you see the fish , cast the bait and see how the fish reacts then adjust to catch . I have never caught a bed fish . But I have caught them with FFS.

It’s all good because we get to see a different way to catch fish, but it would be cool to have a league that has limited electronics just like there’s different cars that race that would be cool

I'm a bank fisher but I think the issue with the FFS most ppl think you just go out and catch everything they see. Also some ppl think it's cheating. Most of the old school guys had to do map study and put time on the water and learn fishing patterns and stuff. Me personally whenever I get a boat my plan is to get one. Now as far as it negatively effecting the fish population I see why ppl are concerned. I know 2 guys personally that go fishing every single day unless it's a severe thunderstorm for crappie and limit out almost every trip. Me personally I'm ok with it

What a great video with some amazing fishermen.

Casting couch! Love it! Just don't talk about anise oil...LOL! Good luck this weekend guys!

I think an aspect of the FFS debate that no one seems to be talking about in its impact on the bait and tackle industry. There is no doubt that FFS requires fairly specific tackle and baits. Though they CAN be caught on bait casters and jerkbaits using FFS, the majority of baits and tackle are minnow baits, worms, and spinning gear. Therefore, large segments of the bait and tackle industry will suffer long term and some are even suffering now. Imagine the spinnerbait and even chatterbait market long term as your every day fisherman shifts to FFS baits and tackle. Imagine the jig market and the heavy rod and baitcaster market. Even the imagine the topwater segment of the fishing tackle industry. At the end of the day, the fishing industry is all about selling products. Academy may love having Wheeler get air time, but they sell more products than spinning rods and reels and minnow style baits. Jabob even admitted in this video that power fishing baits and tackle are in his blood, but if the public doesn't see these items in his hands on a regular basis, sales will suffer. In the end, I imagine there being a ban on FFS in terms of use DURING tournament hours. They will likely be in play during practice but not on game day. And I think that the tackle industry will play a major part in this limitation. The fans may be upset now, but when the manufacturers and retailers get upset, things will change. Think about it. Johnny Morris wants to sell more than just spinning rods and minnow baits. At the end of the day, I love the guys in this video. They are incredible anglers and their videos are truly the cutting edge of the sport. Mark's rate the bait, Jacob's tourney recaps and Dustin's take on things like FFS are extremely helpful and necessary to the sport. Though I am older than these guys, I am no Randy Blauakt in terms of my disdain for FFS. But it does need limitations. If FFS is all about learning the behavior of bass (which is what these guys say here), then learn about them in practice and use that knowledge ALONE to catch them on game day.

All my favorites in one show! So I get people being against FFS and I understand using it (I actually have Live Scope myself). So if it’s truly that big of a deal, then why not have a technology tournament class and a non technology class? I have no clue how it all works maybe it’s not feasible, just throwing it out there.

I enjoy watching Pros use FFS, when they show the screen on TV. I am trying to get somewhat proficient at it. It really helps watching someone who is very proficient at it.

Im an old school at 55 years old i can say that this group of guys their commroderie is the most enjoyable part of watching anything associated pro angling today when i was their age there was only one league and unlike today with youtube and all these other formats and multiple leagues the tournament anglers lifestyle is something that was hardly ever seen and to know it you had to be in it and getting to see these guys in this format is very enjoyable for me not growing up in this information age. I really like this format and it puts the viewer on a more personal level with these guys living the dream

We’ve been using aqua view through the ice in Minnesota since early 90’s.

I’ve been fishing club tournaments since the age of 13. I’m 26 now. I fish with my dad on a tin rig every month. No sonar at all other than downscan. I gotta say, it’s a struggle. It’s hard to beat guys that do have the tools and know how to use them. Now everybody wants to be a guide because they have livescope. If that isn’t a sign that it’s too easy, idk what is.

It's part of the game, I don't like it, I have it because I have to be competitive in my little tournaments, but my thoughts are if it's going to be a thing the A rig imo should be too

You guys are real and I enjoy h Listening to the truth

I agree with Mark

What about the Records Guys. Imagine if baseball went to aluminum Bats. They have the technology but they would literally have to change every record in separate them. How do youball feel about this 🤔. Tesla has cars that can drive themselves. How exciting would Nascar be with no drivers. This is also killing the smaller clubs in back of the boat guys are not entering tournaments . So much has changed . I don't see the good out weighing the bad. Just seems like big tech industry keeps making u buy new systems or get left behind. Has to be capped.

I see it getting at to or about what you can see on ultra sound like the medical field has but that is a price point that will be considerably hard to attain in the next decade

They crying bc they can’t win! It’s 2024, get with the times. Lee it rolling, squad. Love the show and content. Tell Jacob to get his tournament videos released! Come on man! Haha

I installed my hds 12 live and ffs today, the only reason everybody don't have it is the price, I've saved money for 7 months to buy it....catch'um up DC & gang...

Would have liked to hear Mark’s full top 5 west coast anglers haha the top 3 was tuff tho!! DC cut em short on the list hahaha

Could one of you guys ask MLF what is going on with their website ? Had no problems watching last year. I am trying to access it from the UK and it keeps timing out when the cookie selection page comes up. Can't access the website at all to follow results or watch live. Way to go to "grow the sport". Growing the sport from now on requires it to grow outside the United States, it isn't getting any bigger unless global access is improved.

Wonder if dc meant the gas line below mitchell dam and not jordan dam

So let me ask the pros. Say livescope is banned from professional bass tournaments. After having it and seeing what you have scoping bass. Will it change how you fish for bass even without livescope?