Four basic moves - Viking round shield

Подписаться 1,4 тыс.

Просмотров 2,2 тыс.

50% 1

Watch the revised version here: • Revised! 4 basic moves...
When learning how to fence with a viking round shield, and a sword, it can sometimes be difficult to makes choices in sparring exercises, and in sparring bouts. Even at greatly reduced speed, you often do not have time to think about what to do, and maybe you do not even know.
Here is a method to improve your decision making. I have been inspired to develop this basic training method from experimentation and fencing with sharp swords at Trelleborg in Oktober of 2022. Especially the interactions between swords and shields were surprisingly enlightening.
One premise is the bind in the center. This bind happens when both fencers approach with sword and shield joined, or in conjunction, by resting the sword edge on the shield rim, at the top, in the center, in order to cover while approaching.
In this simplified training method, the four basic moves can be performed from the bind. This means, that in order to train it, you must allow this bind to happen. Not chase it, but allow it to happen.
The four moves are:
A thrust from above
A cut below
An overbind to the right and a shield strike
An overbind to the left and a shield strike

Спорт

Опубликовано:

9 ноя 2022

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 29

@swordandshield Год назад

Excellent! An easy-to-follow guide that facilitates decision making in shield binds. Very helpful, thank you.

@mikkelpauli Год назад

You are most welcome, and thanks for the praise. I have uploaded a revised version.

@j.r.morrel628 Год назад

To some concerned about the effectiveness of Viking sword thrusts: a thrust does not have to kill to be effective. If it resets the OODA loop, it buys critical time. Even a light cut across the eye can end a fighter's drive quickly.

@rangda_prime Год назад

Heck, I stabbed someone in the eye with a padded larp weapon once (by mistake no less) and he just collapsed to the ground. His eye was ok, but it hurt a lot, he said when he had stopped moaning from pain.

@jaytech4082 Год назад

Thank you 😊

@mikkelpauli Год назад

You are most welcome

@matthewrussell4343 Год назад

I'd like to advise to be careful when extending you shield that far out. In I33 it would make sense to extend with a buckler but not necessarily with a round shield. I've found in sparring that's best to keep your shield close to you, preferably with a strap attached to both ends of the shield grip. Thrusting to the face would be a good way to get you opponent to react but the real sweet spot is the legs. That's going to be your best bet especially if your opponent is wearing mail and a helmet.

@swordandshield Год назад

It is true that with the opponent's shield held close to his body, his legs are a great target. That is a great reason not to do it. The geometry that withdraws the lower openings in the buckler fencing of I.33 is based on anatomy, and thus is irrespective of shield size. Plus, both archaeology and period iconography suggest that, for the larger part of the Viking Age, hardly any armour and only few helmets were worn.

@matthewrussell4343 Год назад

@@swordandshield I would disagree that it's irrespective of size because obviously with the size difference comes the weight difference and the round shield would have slot more substantial heft compared to a buckler, so having it extended out would tire your out a whole lot quicker and could easily loose control of your shield.

@matthewrussell4343 Год назад

@@swordandshield Also I'm not saying they all had armor I'm just saying if he did, the legs would be the most exposed opening.

@swordandshield Год назад

@@matthewrussell4343 I fence with my Viking shield extended all the time, and it does not tire me out.

@swordandshield Год назад

@@matthewrussell4343 Understood. And yes, armour works. However, anatomy and geometry still remain the same, and an unarmoured leg that is out of reach while heads are in range is still not a viable target.

@alexandermartzok_vikingcombat Год назад

As you pointed out, the thrust and the low cut are solid techniques, especially in combination. However, these overbinds based on rotation not only of the opponent's sword but also the shield, do not seem like something that works really well in an uncooperative environment. I get that you based it on the fact that a sharp blade could cut into the edge of the own shield. When you apply the overbind on the opponent's sword (which is fixed to his shield edge) you will get leverage to lower his shield. But why would the opponent let the sword stick in the edge instead of letting the sword go and move it independently, thus avoiding the shield being manipulated into an unfortunate position? A sharp sword would not be unremovable from one's own shield edge. Maybe we can test this out sometime in Hedeby or if I have the opportunity to join you guys in Trelleborg, before we start a long, fruitless discussion via text.

@mikkelpauli Год назад

I welcome having my Ideas challenged in a constructive and friendly way :) Certainly the wise move to avoid being overbound is to not follow the movement of the overbinder, but I find it not to be nescessary for the opponents shield also follow for the overbinds to work. As with any technique a vital component is timing. In sparring I find, that a lot of the fencing is centered around controlling the center, and getting a control advantage, similar to the overbinds. We have found the overbinds to work in sparring, with the overbind to the right being slightly more effective than the overbind to the left. We do have sparring footage that shows this, even at higher speed. It may be that the rotation is only a minor component, but it is nonetheless a good way to train the body mechanics of the overbinds. Time will tell. I look forward to testing it thoroughly.

@swordandshield Год назад

Hi Alexander, when wielding weapons separately, a further option comes into play that is not covered here: namely entering, with your sword, between the opponent's weapon. We can try this out next time we meet.

@andyedwards9222 Год назад

Are these techniques based on those in i33? Viking age swords may not be optimised for thrusting but against an unarmoured target they would still do a lot of damage. Being poked in the face with a stick is nasty.

@swordandshield Год назад

Viking Age swords are actually fearsome thrusting weapons. I ran respective tests on animal carcasses repeatedly. Wide blades cause wide wounds. Points only became more acute when more armour was worn. Whenever there was a context of action with less armour, round but sharpened sword points re-appeared, such as the 16th century ‘katzbalger’.

@bertieraisin8250 Год назад

【ｐｒｏｍｏｓｍ】

@northmanlogging2769 Год назад

You guys do realize that viking pattern swords are terrible thrust weapons right? and them thin shields would splinter and be useless with one good swing?, I've commented before that you are leaving your legs and hips open to strikes, And it takes a hell of a lot more then a little swipe to cut even pants let alone sever tendons. The viking swords are hack and slash weapons, which they excel at, this patty cake poking over the shield stuff is pure fantasy especially if you are facing any sort of armored opponent. I guess if this is some sort of highly regulated and point based sport then you're doing fine, but in full contact fight, you would be carried off the field before you could say Skol. (spent 10 or so years fighting heavy combat, full armor with and against round shield/sword or axe or etc)

@johanvillemoes3374 Год назад

It just so happen that vikings did not really wear armour... only one maille and approx. 4 helmet fragments, in a ratio of over 23.000 swords. Alot of these techniques are also described in I.33

@northmanlogging2769 Год назад

@@johanvillemoes3374 You are so full of S that its hard to even respond to this, never mind countless tapestries and paintings, or Saga's And we know that Mail was prized, ded guys probably were never buried in it. Besides, even then, heavy cloth or leather will stop a viking type sword on a thrust about every time, perhaps you can take some real world experience with edged weapons and actual combat before spouting off and claiming some absurd S

@swordandshield Год назад

As for thrusts: a round but sharp point easily penetrates unarmoured targets, as anyone can find out who runs respective tests with an appropriate test medium. Sword points only became more acute when considerably more armour was worn. In contexts with comparably little armour, round points are preferable, as they open up wider wounds, be it in the 16th century with so-called ’katzbalger’ swords, or a thousand years earlier during the Muslim conquest.

@swordandshield Год назад

As for the thickness of shields, there is plenty of easily accessible research results available these days. In general, composite shield edges (wood plus layers of hide) ranged around 5 mm. Experimentation with sharps and replica shields show the effects of forceful blows: weapons can easily get caught and can be hard to free. Experience gained in sports with blunt weapons distort the reality of historical fighting, not only in this respect. Wearing lots of protection likewise distorts the reality of unarmoured or lightly armoured combat, which is what we are looking at in the Viking Age.

@northmanlogging2769 Год назад

@@swordandshield you clearly have made up your mind based soley on either assumptions, ot what a third party assumed, ive fought in thinly padded gambisons, scale, and chain maile, sometimes with edged weapons, though admitedly never while wearing armor, maile absorbs much of the energy, so much so you dont even need padding, all i used was thin cloth padding, try shooting an arrow at a thick free hanging curtain, the results are very simalar to maile