I think the vid misses out some key gripes with the Apollo and when it compares costs it’s not really accurate. Here’s why…. After you pay 700 to 800 quid you are then going to buy the other unison preamps and plugins which adds to the round trip cost. The cost once you’re stuck in their ecosystem is a never ending spiral. I think if they sold the Apollo and you could run anything on the dsp and/or choose to buy their plugins I would do the purchase. It’s the locked in part I don’t like.
Great video! I think the key is being able to do what you love. If you're wealthy or can comfortably afford it, UAD is a solid choice. But for many of us, upgrading from something like a Focusrite to a more reliable setup is already a stretch. UAD just isn’t practical when you’re on a tight budget, especially with a basic laptop basic room and basic instruments. It's like trying to buy a v8 engine for a small shitty car. While DSP is important, it becomes less crucial if money is an issue. A video on hybrid setups for home and live solo performances with a few instruments would be really helpful! P.S. Love your work!
...i love Universal Audio ! ❤ my few Plug Ins ( LA2A, Distressor, Chanel Strip ) sounds really good and for less than 50 Bucks real useful, esp. the Chanel Strip is one of the best i've ever use.
I would just like to quote section 14 of the March 11, 2024 Universal Audio EULA and let it speak for itself: "14. Non-disparagement. Customer agrees that Customer shall not make any public statement about, nor publish in any chat room, online forum or other media, any content about, UA or any UA Licensor or Authorized UA Reseller that damages (or is intended to damage) that party's reputation." The different EULAs are easily available on the UA website ("Legal" at the bottom of the site), so you don't have to take my word for it.
I love Apollo but I also love the apogee symphony desktop. I have an 8xp and a satellite octo honestly I love the flexibility along with console +24dbu capabilities
People who actually know their stuff still won’t buy Apollo. Instead, they’ll go with an RME + UAD Satellite combo. Why? Because with the concept of matrix routing, we can print their preamps in real-time in the DAW. In terms of conversion, RME or even Focusrite (Clarett+ series) outperforms it. AVID’s, Rednet’s, and everything else outperforms it. To be honest, comparing Scarlett 2i2 to UAD devices is like comparing apples to oranges. People who state that there is no visible difference are probably listening on KRK Rokit speakers. 😆 Anyway, I understand the value you are proposing, but perhaps make a video with RME/UAD Satellite and show, with the help of matrix routing or even specific live software, how we can do that. Also, in Windows, only the USB version works, and good luck getting Thunderbolt to work properly. People who use Discord and other software, rest in peace. The drivers are just wonderful isn't they?. oh wait, you got to login in to download drivers i suppose.
@@shyamlok Apollo is all about the convenience, reliability, all the useful features packed and nice UI of the console app. The difference in sound between UAD, Focusrite and RME is not a deciding factor when buying one of them. As an audio engineer I'm looking for something really stable and reliable which also has everything I need to get the work done. Apollo is delivering exactly that. Has it downsides? Of course, like every gear.
@@producermathew do i owe a decision to your wallet? no. do you like buying apollo? Buy it. As an audio engineer myself, do i own an explanation to you? not really. Do i keep myself to an ecosystem? no. Do i work in mac? no - i work in windows, do i like paying new price for dated converters? no. Help yourself buddy, consider me an authrority or a troll, or whatever you want to.
@@huberttorzewski pretty accurate, if you work with clients or producers with similar gear and plugins, the process is much seamless. I explained another side, whome might not be happy with universal audio, except going with their satellite, instead of their Audio interfaces, which are no joke tbh, but dont actually offer exactly what people like myself are looking for.
Good job dispelling the myths and shedding some light on the value of the ecosystem. Brave calling out point 4. And you see this with a lot of things. Apple etc.. but most of those bitching really just hate being poor!
I actually really like Universal Audio since the native plugins came out. I have bought quite a few now and ditched most of my Waves plugins. I've even been trying out Luna and like it as well. If I were recording for my career, then I would consider the Apollo stuff. But the people I do occasionally record are more than happy with the way they sound with my Focusrite Clarett. I need 16 channels for drums etc. and that gets pricey with Apollos. I upgraded my computer to an M3 Macbook Pro on sale for less than one Apollo 8xp. Bigger bang for my bucks in my opinion. And I can monitor with plugins (granted not all plugins) and run a full mix no problem. Your points are valid, but not $4,300 extra in cost valid for my use case.
I am a big supporter of Universal Audio. My studio has Apollo x6 and multiple x16 Apollos for all of the studio out board gear. Yes I do use their plugins but mainly I love the converters on out board gear. Yes in have recorded and mixed exclusively with Analog outboard gear but their plugins are still go to. First choice every time. I am pleased with my decision to use their products.
had a apollo twin usb for 7 years - loved it, just updated to x6 and was a big mistake being on windows still, basically my intel 13th gen mobo with tb4 doesnt work with it properly (click and pops all the time), so I will have to update to mac, or get rid of ua. I like the ua plugingst too much so its hard saving for a mac now. Aside my problem here, id like to see updates to the plugins - values shown/wet dry knobs (the ones that dont have them), a built in tuner into console, would all be nice. the soundcards are all coming down in price, I paid 1.5k for a x6 when the used to be over 2k, so its looking like new stuff is around the corner
UAD would be great if they evolved but they have a BlackBerry mentality and with it being such a potential great product,with potential….you fail if you don’t make necessary changes all the way around even with pricing.
Apollo shill.... 😆 Just kidding! But dude, you have to realize that not everyone needs that specific setup Apollo offers. If it's for a high profile studio and you literally have money to burn, then yes, otherwise it is a major overkill for a lot of content creators who may never use live DSP effects on audio recordings. All kinds of effects can be applied after the recording is done. Not everyone likes Macs or Intel with Thunderbolt. Especially Intel with their latest lackluster CPUs - terrible choice.
Antelope gets a lot of crap for their software and support, but my experience was UAD console was way more prone to locking up and causing issues on my M1 mac. The 2 times I needed support it took days to get a generic unhelpful response to a ticket and Antelope got on the phone with me right away when I had an activation issue and resolved quickly. What I do love about console though is tracking through UAD verbs and delays as it's more inspiring.
I worked years with Apollo, and now with Audient. In my opinion, Audient sounds better. I'm not talking about beauty... I'm talking about clarity and precision. Flat and real. When we work, we don'y need colored sound, we need sincerity and precision.
I don't like Universal Audio because I bought 276 VOLT because I wanted to have a mobile set up that had a built in compression it was unusable; the compressor was super noise-y and people tried to gaslight me and tell me that it was just background noise being compressed. No, the compressor in it was garbage. Also, the headphone knob only worked when it was cranked up a quarter of the way, it seemed like the potentiometer wasn't wired correctly.
In Chile UAD apollos are very expensive, like 2 or 3 times the cost in USA or Europe, so for the same money you cant get way more channels an even better conversion (with audient, rme, motu, antelope, etc)
I have apollo x4 and clarett 4pre + , I think they both sound good but I do like using the apollo and satellite for taking some of the load off my computer,, uad plugins are priced high so I normally wait for sales, sometimes plugin boutique will have the same sale going but they have a rewards system for any plugin you buy from them not just uad , plugin boutique now has a uad 22 plugin bundle for 99 dollars which is a lot of plugins for the price and you can get the century tube channel strip for free right now in case nobody has that one.
@@ghfjfghjasdfasdf totally. Their free native plugims as the la2a or the analog verbs released some months ago do not need internet conection and the license can be located in your pc, not the cloud
I been stop dealing with uad , the plugins are good but not with the money , u can get better deals and just as great plugins with plugin alliance ,the apollos conversion is not the greatest either I sold my Apollo x8p and got the avid matrix , and for what they try to give u dsp wise with uad with there rack mount units are not worth the money either . but take this with a grain of salt .
You missed a HUGE reason I stay with Apollo: live streaming without DAW overhead processing. also what i dislike about the console app is no easy multing and matrix routing options.
I nave Apollo Twin audio interface, it’s good, but UA Connect is a complete piece of shit, every couple months I have to reinstall this shitty software because errors appearing and that’s pissed me of
DSP literally saves my computer (Late 2013 Mac Pro) from lagging or crashing when I have to use many instances of Autotune. I even had some people comment on one of my videos on here and on Tik Tok saying my Apollo x8p is bad and other companies have better sound/conversion. I don't get the hate for UAD lol. Great video man!
One thing I really like about UAD, is the dual ADAT on the x8. If you go with Lynx Aurora(n), it would cost an awful lot to fill out the I/O to be able to track a full band with 24 inputs. I think the plugins are actually pretty good value, if you buy them on-sale, and in bundles. I think the ADC is plenty good enough these days - competitive with RME, MOTU. And wouldn't hold 99% of people back. For DAC, people can add an external, if they like. Or even add a great stereo ADC out for the most critical tracking, if you are very fussy, about the primary instrument, vocals. Since in those contexts, often you are tracking one source at a time. And I don't believe for drums Apollo isn't good enough.
Hey bro I love my Apollo Twin MKii for eight years but ….. those Apogee converters and preamps are the truth. I have the Apogee Symphony Desktop and the Duet 3 👀 nice…. I will agree the Dsp side of the Apollo’s are untouched for as ecosystem. The higher end Apogee stuff is nice bro.
I recently bought a used UAD Arrow for cheap. Was able to register it with UA and get some free plugins which I often use. I don't get the hate, UAD is GREAT. And i'm on windows 10. Just follow the setup instructions for windows and it really all works out. And I get extra plugins I can use if I end up maxing out my CPU which I often do. AND the unison preamps, high quality DA converters and headphone amp, whats not to like??
Do you have any idea how few people claim that UAD works on Windows… your setup is definitely an outlier and guess what, at some point, you will run into issues because UAD drivers for Windows are garbage and are not properly supported. The fact that you have to be online and connected to their servers and DRM for their plugins to work/function is enough to despise this company.
UAD is overrated. Maybe you have not used enough other plugins to tell, or checked them on the meter. Also, buying an "audio interface" to run plugins is a scam, modern cpus are fully capable of running plugins well. Also, they are constantly running BS marketing campaigns to FOMO people into buying, instead of making good enough plugins that people want to buy due to value.
Well done! It had to be said. I couldn’t live without UA Console for music, tracking, video, everything….. never mind the variety of plugins. No other vendor brings it all together.
Most people don't realize how awesome Universal Audio and their Apollo interfaces are. The way UA's developers implemented the Console app and Luna, incorporating low latency recording with Unison Preamps, Rec Efx, summing and integrated tape, is damn near genius. UA has giving us the opportunity to record our music with a classic analog workflow in the same way most of our favorites records were recorded back in the good ole days. To each is own, however, thank goodness for Universal Audio. Thanks for highlighting the misconceptions about UA.
I use Apollo twin X quad, this card completely covers my needs, great plugins and reliable trouble-free work 👍 after buying Apollo there is nothing more to want 😀
Apollo is great, no questions. But as soon as you need help from UA you are literally Fu**ED. Never had a more bad experience with a company in audio. That's sad because I have spent well over 7000 Euros in their hard and software.
I just switched from apollo x 6 to merging happy mk2. no regret! a different level indeed!! Especially the conversion! but I still holding my twins and my satellite only for the dip. maybe trading the twins to another satellite. Love the amphions too., sounding so unbelievable good!
I own an x6 and 2 Octo satellite boxes. The DSP IS LIMITED. DSP power IS NOT spread over all plug in instances - It’s PER CHANNEL. Which means you regularly can only use 1 instance of a thing on that channel. That’s crap in 2024. Everything else though - Fab!
Yes, you can only use one instance of a UNISON preamp modeller. But you can use up to four UAD-2 plugins in the mo it or insert section on each channel, plus two Aux sends for effects. And you can print the monitor inserts so effectively giving you five stages of processing on each channel. Subject to DSP resources.
Take it from me who’s an acoustics engineer with a background in electroacoustic design, the UA Apollo is maybe not objectively the best converters. However, their converters are amazing, they are on par with RME.
@@EdThorne for me, the only real step up is if you get a Burl AD/DA. Honestly it’s usually the people who don’t know what they’re talking about and just generally dislike UA or can’t afford one who try to say their converters are bad. This is just incorrect.
You made 1 mistake.... when you said no other interface offers the same qualities in daisy chaining like the Apollo..... That would be Antelope Audio. They are cheaper than the Apollos with better converters and clocking. Their software has come a long way. I have my Apollo X4 & UAD satellite (Octo) and decided to upgrade to the Antelope Orion 32+ versus the Apollo 16. Why? 1. It had more I/O, and expanding capabilities like MADI, as well with ADAT. 2. Has DSP plugins, 3. Better clocking 4. Better Dynamic range 5. It was cheaper by $700. and I was able to get a 10% discount through Andrew Masters affiliate. And it has been a superb interface. Take a look. I mainly use my Apollo x4 more like a monitor controller but still use the UAD satellite consistently. I have more outboard gear preamps now so the modeling is only when I am looking for a specific flavor.
Ok, that’s interesting. Thanks for the info. As far as I’m aware though, connecting digitally doesn’t enable the devices to share DSP resources like the Apollos. Fair enough about MADI but what studio uses that. It’s a live sound format. Also, the plugins are simply not in the same league. You’ll never get me anywhere near Antelope.
@@EdThorne FYI. Here are the following studios using Antelope Audio Abbey Road Studios, Universal Music, Metropolis Studios, Britannia Row, Netflix, Rak and Sarm plus many more.. Note Madi is becoming an industry standard and it will supplant ADAT because of the sheer number of channels it can handle. Antelope Audio Galaxy line is the flagship it is rivaling anything on the market now and again, number of I/O. They spent a number of years working on software and customer service. It is really good I heard for years to stay away from their interfaces but I can swear by it now. A friend was the one that suggested it to me and then I saw Andrew Masters built his new studio around it and a few other big RU-vidrs. It sounds unbelievable. Also the routing that you can duo via the software is just as good as RME. I have a ton of outboard gear and it took me a minute to get used to the software but once you do its a breeze on the number of things you can do.
@@EdThorne I was on an expanded Apollo system (2 X16s and an X8P), and was considering selling the X8P and getting two more X16s. I now use MADI to bridge together two Orion 32 G4s, giving me 64 channels of analog IO all the way up to 192khz, which I got for less than the cost of two X16s - I made money on the switch. They kick off a fraction of the heat, and consequently take up a fraction of the space in my rack. The conversion sounds better to my ears, and I already had enough outboard pres that I always use anyway. The routing capabilities on the Orion and Galaxy units is EXPONENTIALLY more powerful than the Apollos, and I was doing a lot of "advanced" stuff in console on a regular basis. I want to be clear - I think Apollos are great. If I were trying to put together a small rack to go do mobile recording sessions with, I'd put an X8P in there in a heartbeat. I think the Apollo Twin is the best thing available for the bedroom musician recording solo demos. Once you get past a certain degree of IO needed though, and you have a decent collection of outboard you generally want to track through anyway, the value proposition (and the routing capabilities) of the Apollos starts to fall apart very quickly. I LOVE UA, I LOVE Luna, and I would love nothing more than to see them revamp the Apollo line to include options that make more sense in those scenarios, but that's just the way things are right now.
@@melissabell585 Agree 100%. I don’t think Ed realizes how MADI is becoming an industry standard. I knew I made the right decision when I found out abbey Roads was using AA Galaxy and MADI…. I think people are still thinking it’s 2015 they have come so far with their customer service and their software. They new CEO wants them to rival RME and they have put a great deal of effort to ensure stability and they built a whole software team. I do think they can make the software a little more aesthetically pleasing like UA console but the routing capabilities is LIGHT YEARS ahead what the apollos offer and can’t forget the mixing options too. I love my Apollo X4 .
@@EdThorne to run any of the neve related plugins on uad you are required to have a uad interface. unless you buy the uad spark subscription which allows you to use any of the uad plugin regardless of having a uad interface or not. (im not sure if this is the case for any other of the uad provided plugins) my point is that they are gatekeeping plugins behind a pay wall of either purchasing a interface and being sucked into that ecosystem, or buying a reoccurring subscription based system.
They’re incredibly detailed speakers. Too detailed. I hear too many details that need fixing that result in sterile mixes that don’t translate well. I nail it on the Amphions which translate perfectly.
So Antelopes software sucks but console is your fault you don’t understand. I don’t understand why the video is critical of the user rather than the product. I sure can afford it and yet believe is ridiculous expensive for what it offers. I rather buy apogee than a product that is barely comparable to Focusrite Claret. Even the new Scarlet has comparable converters. I like your videos, but you didn’t need to be so cynical with people who disagree with you. Believe me, there are valid reason why people don’t like Apollo stuff and not necessarily for the cynical reason you pointed out.
@@EdThorne well, I just gave you one. Conversion is mediocre for the price. Yes, I can afford it, I just choose not to buy it. The new scarlet has comparable converters at a quarter of the price. Most composer care about AD conversion but will never even use the DA conversion because they will not mix or master. Second, I don’t like closed systems. Their system locks out unapproved companies from developing products for their DSP. Third, we don’t hate their DSP because it’s irrelevant in 2024. We dislike it because the DSP processors they offer are weak, outdated, and expensive in a price performance ratio. This is well known.
I thought it sounded way too gritty and noisy in the highs. The lows/mids were good and in general the sound was linear in a good way. But yeah, not the highs for me personally.
Fair enough. You have to enjoy what you’re working on otherwise there’s no point. There’s a piece of gear for everyone but not everything is for everyone.
I think I do hate universal audio and their dsp nonsense. I don’t think that can be changed in my mind. All I see is a company they had really expensive plugins and now they suddenly want to give them away for free now that the competition has caught up and surpassed them.
@@EdThorne you know, I prefer anything that doesn’t have really iffy upgrade models like waves or pest like software as can be seen with universal audio. Last time I had their downloader/updater installed it honestly felt like malware.
I fkin hate UAD just because LUNA is a pile of shite that doesn't work no matter what you do!!! I do still love UAD plugins even tho I've gashed everything of theirs off my computer now..... perhaps an overreaction.... 🤣
