There’s a difference between airing grievances and whining like a little kid, like a spoiled brat who didn’t get things exactly their way. Give me a mature adult for a president. 🇺🇸💙
But most of his followers are exactly the same as he. People always complain but now we have that collective whining voice is a voice to control government.
Corruption breeds pessimism. Campaign finance legalizes corruption, and it spreads in every direction. Big money uses the government to enrich themselves and avoid taxes. Corruption is a problem that few politicians mention, except the most corrupt of politicians himself.
Republicans breed and weaponize pessimism, especially with their unamerican Dead Chicken Strategy where good people are punished for doing good and holding people accountable. Mature voters living in reality know that corruption and capitalism are just the two knobs that fill the bathtub we all soak in, it's this new weaponizing of made-up grievances and fake victimhood for Republicans that is the real problem. What you're referring to is the "both sides" manure when both sides are not doing this, it is strictly the dangerously desperate Republicans and folk libertarians both becoming more populist and unamerican.
Frank Bruni hits the nail on the head. The grievance culture is becoming alarming in America. My friends on the left and the right actually have soloed themselves and refuse to see any truth in the other opposing side. Honestly, i am trying very hard to reconcile with my loved ones who don't see things as I do. it' has nothing to do with education, for some of my relatives have gone to ivy league colleges and still vote for populists like Donald Trump. Our country has placed grievance over results, meaning that if the other party actually does a good job at something, it cannot be true in any aspect. Tired of the grievances. All of us need to complain less and do more. Thanks!
I've read Bruni over the years and don't always agree with this conservative, but he is sounding the alarm folks need to listen to. I put the problem here as people not reading serious newspapers. When Trump first took office, Kellyanne Conway proffered the notion of "alternative facts." I thought maybe she misspoke but now there is a growing sense of an alternative reality due to social media. Facts. Reality is one-sided. Something is either fact or false.
I wish the interviewer wasn’t so defensive . I think it is nice to hear the other side tell their grievances in a way people can understand, instead of screaming.. just a point of view from another country.
And when wages have not increased since the 70s while prices have constantly increased, and when you cannot get good health care, etc. Yes there are many REAL problems that people are pessimistic about.
Collegiality, comity and civility --- in precious short supply! Such thought leadership and eloquence is rare and deserves more attention. A University classroom is a small audience, but great interviews and his book are thought provoking and a needed call to action. Well done!
Something like 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Something like 40% of Americans only have $500 dollars to cover for emergencies. Regardless of where one stands politically, it's hard not to feel a little bit peevish about this.
I was there for many years. This is the best argument for a single payer healthcare system instead of the profit model that destroys the meager savings of the 60% and dooms them to years of crushing debt when they experience a medical emergency.
Many of those living pay check to pay check spend their money unwisely. I have worked with people who go out and buy lunch everyday, Instead of bringing a sandwich, lease fancy cars and pay high interest rates, pay for expensive cable networks ,phone services also alcohol and drugs, Have kids they can't support or buy fancy stuff for their kids. I did without a VCR or cable TV. when those were popular,I took a sandwich everyday for lunch I drove a standard transmission Nissan Sentra for 25 years. I bought a cheap house and then used the equity to buy a different one. I worked a lower paying state job but stuck it out for 30 years and was able to retire at 52 yrs old because of states pension plan. You have to start with a good foundation and build from there.
@@kathycarraher5014Thank you for succinctly repeating the myth, “if you’re poor it’s your own fault”. People with systemic advantages always pull this one out when they hear about the financial struggles of those less well off than they are. I don’t waste money, never drove a fancy car, don’t spend on cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. When I had cancer treatment in the US, in spite of two very good insurance policies I was saddled with thousands of dollars in debt by the end of it. Some people have so much medical debt they have to declare bankruptcy. This is a bad system, not the failure to live within one’s means.
I disagree with Mr. Bruni about requirement for college degree. A BA degree means you spent the time to consider and absorb what is needed to become a good guardian in governance of the polis. So I ask how else will you measure that? Speaking of grievance their is already the danger of the abused becoming the abuser with regard to government, with the most aggrieved being elevated by virtue of their suffering. It is an age old question of who will guard us from the guardians. I dont think lowering the bar to pander is the answer although I do believe that participation by the greatest numbers possible is healthy for a democracy and exclusion is unhealthy. The doors should be open but virtuous effort should be the price of admission to the halls of power. Just look at what happened when hw bush allowed all the southern aggrieved bigots into the tent of the republican party.
Exactly what I am saying. Two-sidism is more about the same groups financing both political parties. MTG is not wrong about the Unaparty. But she is a really bad authority on the subject. No matter what she says she is always trolling because her business model is social media.
Hey ET! I can barely make it through a brief video clip without getting angry over the nonsense. Hope you are having a lovely evening or maybe it's still afternoon in your neck of the woods!
@@cherylalt101 - Wonderful to see you here! I watch because my relatives do, and it gives me a perspective, albeit a biased one, into why they feel, believe, and think when we speak. Hugs Cheryl! 💙
@@GoFarFarAway. - I’m confused by your comment. When I watch mainstream news there is obvious bias, but the news is often verifiable, video exists, which makes some of it believable. But most of what those three news services “report” is very biased, just some persons hateful opinion stated as fact. I’m hoping you are seeing with your eyes open and mind is open too. 😳
@@Erin-Thor I’m very lucky that my father was always a union man and strong democrat, and even after he made some money, he continued to be a democrat. So most of my family is very close politically to me. I’ve lost one sister who moved to Utah and got sucked into the local flavor, but the rest are all of the same mind. I’m far away in Austria, but I’d be going nuts if I had to deal with your situation. Good luck to you my friend. It’s got to be so frustrating. Stay strong ET!
@@hw-rg7gn Frankly, I saw this coming. But nobody listens to me. I had never followed Mr. Trump as a celebrity, never watched a single episode of his TV show or read the gossip columns. When he presented himself as a presidential candidate I found him utterly repellent as a man and as a public figure. He had no policies that sounded even vaguely American to me. All I heard was a self-aggrandizing loudmouth with too much money in his portfolio and too few gray cells in his brain. But, apparently, I am not addicted to spectacle as a substitute for reasonable behavior like so many other Americans are. I saw right through the creature, immediately.
It is not simply pessimism that has been weaponized. There are several other critical factors that lead millions, in America nd the world, the embrace MAGA and its other names (in other countries). Look at the political campaign organizers of Trump, they had participation on Brazilian Bolsonaro's campaign and also did the same in other countries (i.e.: Italy). There is a radical irresponsible group that has been selling the same agenda and "recipe" for political campaigns around the world. The political platforms and speeches from politicians adopting those services, are almost a perfect copy. I am baffled that this has not yet been mentioned and pursued by a serious Media Outlet. These group, and politicians/political parties, are embracing radical populist (even fascist) views and proposals. They are catering to all grievances people have from inflation, globalization, etc. The grievances are not wrong but they lack a broad and correct understanding of the causes and responsible behind those. These populists simplify the messages to leverage negative emotions (fear, prejudice, "shadow government" conspiratorial ideations, racism, etc.). America has been spearheading this craziness and, with Trump, it showed how destructive and detrimental to society and national security this is. We, as a society, must understand and solve the causes for so many to became almost like zombies who can't think and just repeat and act like a master-puppeteer moves them. The is a lot of money being made from the chaos by people who don't mind seeing the world burn (Rupert Murdoch, etc.)
Excellent points and valuable discussion. My best interactions with strangers are always when listening closely and respectfully asking questions when it’s clear they have very different views than my own. Make sure they know I’m hearing them. Much more thoughtful discussion on both ends where oftentimes they express satisfaction and thanks. A learning experience I usually enjoy.
I agree with that gentleman but lets not equate the levels of grievance. One extreme of that party is a teenager throwing a tantrum while the other is real evil, "the we will subjugate you and take away your basic human rights because we hate you evil. Its very important to highlight that.
PRECISELY! well said. What we're seeing in about the past 2 years in red states, is plain severe anti-civil rights operations, some openly nakedly done, others more quietly done. It's anti-american, unamerican and ppl who dn't pay attention to local affairs, often dn't realize it's happening at all, or how bad it is, or they remain in denial.
I think that grievance is profitable. Negative headlines get more attention, and it stops people from engaging in a rational dialogue, and even thought, and it has become an addiction.
Asked for an example of left wing grievance he mentions the political prisoner release....the rest of the time it's the right wing anger-tainment industry.
I have to push back a bit on his initial examples. There is a big difference between a 'news outlet' showing a photo of one thing and knowingly misrepresenting as something else and an individual making some sort of ill-formed opinion/ conclusion about some current event. The two "voices" do not speak with the same volume.
“left and right” - I’m sick of both sides-ism. I read new left progressive book “Justice is Coming” and it’s very optimistic - no grievance. The speaker’s examples on the left are pitifully weak.
I was always under the impression that one of the primary things that returning military veterans end up detesting about “civilians” is their penchant for whining and complaining endlessly about trivial hardships in life. The USA has sadly become this environment of endless pity-party complaining amidst a population that mayhave simply become overly dopamine stimulated by digital distractions that ultimately depress us. All of the best political leaders I have experienced in my lifetime never sugarcoated challenges and problems that the country was facing but always conveyed optimism and service…along with a “healthy” amount of vindictiveness towards their opponents. The primacy of service, optimism and sound governance in political messaging always outweighed complaints, vindictiveness and firehoses of blame.
I'm not going to necessarily disagree with most of what you wrote even if I don't agree with some of the ways it was worded, but I'm definitely going to argue that there's no such thing as a “healthy” amount of vindictiveness.
@@DennisMoore664 It was my poor choice of words. What I really meant was “healthy debate”…which isn’t always pretty and can at times, be mistaken for mean spiritedness.
Maybe we here in the US have simply become SPOILED and have just learned to keep demanding things we selfishly want all the time. Imagine what people who lived through and supported through personal sacrifice the World Wars? Have we forgotten how to be grateful for all that we have, certainly in comparison to so many many other places around the world. We must look like Whiny babies.
yeah, that is sorta one aspect of the 'entitled' folks syndrome, but overall ignorance, superficialialty, is mainly what i smell in many ppl, both political sides often, but especially the blind rage /fear/anger of the new-right.
I don't see grievance "running amok on the left." And the other "grievances" he criticizes are legit. The "both sides" admonition is that we need to engage respectfully. No suggestions as to how to move that forward. I think people selling books about this mess should be required to model conversations with actual Trump supporters and show us how it's done.
Thanks. Great interview. But where Bruni states: "I don't know if we go too far down that road that there's any turning back now," surely he must realize we crossed that Rubicon years ago. Social media will never be recast in the mode he suggests--and neither will human nature. History is replete with examples of countries and societies in this cycle of rupture, and ours is occurring at a time when technology is an accelerant with no extinguisher.
The biggest change I have noticed in discourse is that it used to be when people sat down together to have a hard conversation, everyone seemed to believe that everyone else was bringing their best selves to the conversation. Now, it seems the default to believe that regardless of the conversation, participants are full of malice. I see this in social media posts when a company or an individual messes up spectacularly, and then issues what seems to be a sincere apology. They are always met with a Greek chorus of indignation, bile, and disbelief. Nobody really apologizes anymore. They don't mean it. The thing is, if we paste over sincere apologies as politicking or dishonesty, we won't get any apologies at all. And without apologies, how can we have any kind of social repair?
I think social media has a lot to do with grievance culture because it has made it easier to band together with people of like mind online. Tribalism and therefore grievance culture is rampant on social media and manifests itself in reality (6th of January is a great example). Not sure what can be done about social media now, but I really do think it will have to do with redefining what "free speech" is and what it should not include (lies and misinformation (which become disinformation), violent speech, etc.).
@@mithulahiri4105 I have to say I really agree with you. Social media and people's usage of it to make shared public demands of brands and for-profit companies has really shown me just how little most Americans feel they are represented by their elected officials . I think a lot of us have really internalized the reality that our most important identity as Americans is our consumer identity. We get more response, more engagement from brands on social media than we do are elected officials. People clearly feel disenfranchised.
I think this thread is leaving out the importance of right wing talk radio. It is often listened to during car travel. Years ago, I heard a host say; "Democrats want to destroy America". That was not about any policies. it was about painting the left as 'evil beings'.
@mithulahiri4105 so there was not tribalism in the 1950s during McCarthy? There are multiple other examples but this popped out first. This mindset has always been there. Social media just made it more visible.
Back in the day there used to be a saying: "I might not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it. I don't really think this still holds true. I can't imagine Trump people would feel that way about me and I'm not sure what I feel towards them. That to me shows just how much things have changed and just how dangerous our current position is.
em, yeah: when one side actively tries to silence the entire rest of the population and limit what all ppl can see at libraries, and limits female family planning rights, of when/where /what why they can either reproduce or simply maintain their fertility, that is a a fascist movement attempting to opress the entire other half or more likely other 2/3rds of the actual population. Rule by autocratic theocratic-ish minority is NOT the american way, and WE centrists will not tolerate this rise of rightwing populist fascism, which is plain to see. Plain to see judges clearly delaying and incompetently (at best) not allowing the trials which of course require due process timing for the people !!! This is THE only clear cut serious moment in american modern history, and if conservative minded folks dn't wake up, they are at risk of losing the country they have known since thirty, forty, sixty, seventy years ago. IS that what they want? bcuz they are acting like a psychotic child now.
The problem is there's no reasoning with them until we stop their news and politicians from speaking to rile them or telling them alternative facts, there's no such thing!
The Brittney Griner example was not like the other examples you gave. I strongly disagree with the conclusion you came to. I am not even a fan of hers. I personally think she should’ve spent some time in jail. I live a few minutes away from the US Mexico border. I know not to bring a vape pen on my person when I go to Mexico. If they find it, I will go to Mexican jail and be subject to Mexican law. Black people being angry and saying “the government doesn’t care about us” cannot compare to any other example that you gave. It is not an exaggeration to believe or state that the government doesn’t care about us. We’ve had at least 400 years on this land and we have seen how the government has treated us. Also, the government hasn’t done anything to repair what it has done to the African-American community both in slavery and since. So it’s not far-fetched for a black person to come to the conclusion that this government does not care about them. Whether it’s about a basketball player, not. You have not lived our reality so you don’t have any right to judge.
"We've had at least 400 years..." Until you think of yourself as an American first, and a race second, why do you think society should act any differently towards you than you act towards yourself? You have as much to do with blacks living here 400 years ago, as I have to do with some European peasant living 400 years ago. Very very little, if at all. Then you try to put up your forcefield with your last sentence. You get to critique freely but the minute anyone else excercices that right, you claim they"don't have any right to judge" It's hard to think of many worse ways to solve your grievances. :( We do agree on miss Griner though, actions have consequences, and other nations' laws should be respected. Even if they are incredibly stupid like banning the wonderful plant know as marijuanna. (also "The Government" is just people. There's not like a persistent entity that has lasted through centuries. In other words, the Government of today isn't the Government of 400 years ago)
RACE...let's talk about the racism in this country. We ignore the elephant in the room if we do not address the race issues. Trump has clearly tapped into the overt racist underbelly of our country, and it worked. Although the grievance of race bites white Americans few openly discuss this problem.
Ignoring the elephant on the room? I'm absolutely not saying it's a thing of the past or that problems of racism don't still exist, but we've been talking about racism in this country for over 70 years and trying to address at least some of the race issues since the late 60's. Just like there will probably always going to be a split between liberal people and conservative people, there are always going to bigots in the world that people like Trump and his ilk will be able to activate.
Grievance and dishonesty are 2 different things. When put together you have a real problem.. When leaders of the country and media influencers use those 2 things in tandem for money and power, you have corruption. The next book could be titled; The age of Corruption and it might more accurately describe what is going on right now in this country and in the world.
Author Chris Hedges (pastor, NYT reporter) detailed the legit grievances of 10s millions Americans, 15+ years ago. In sum, legit economic anger - starting in late 70s & in full, by time of NAFTA.
boy o boy, having money with its inevitable options for flexibility in getting what you want/need, is what its all about. Grievance cuts across the divides, but wealth determines the interpretation...
When you work for the NYT, there is never any hit on the right without a follow up hit on the the left. That is just who they are. I abandonned my NYT subscription a long time ago and whenever I start to forgetall I need is fix from Bruni or Friedman and then I remember.
Very important what he said at the last about how we talk to each other.. Everyone has to do his own part to make this world a better & kinder place.. 💙💜
I have worked a state government job where do to downsizing they gave existing employees jobs that formerly required a college degree. They did not have the reading, writing or research skills to to do the job well. They lacked experience and confidence in giving info in meetings or inservices. Listening skills and ability to focus on verbal info was poor. You get alot out of college .Replacing qualified people with poorly educated people degrades the whole work place.
This socio-psychology needs massive public re-education. That dynamic of enviously projecting one's own low/nil self esteem onto accomplished others must be addressed for their own mental health and quality of living futures.
Amazing. I've been so sick of 'the noise' - everyone crying that they are somehow a victim. It's unamerican to complain so much. I used to think of us as a nation of people who 'got shit done'. Well, I suppose individually we do do that...but what gets amplified and echo-ed in media is, as Bruni says, 'grievances'. Grievances are clickbait.
On all sides, facts should matter, inventing facts for gotcha motives will destroy our nation. We all have to check ourselves & be answers, not the problem too.
Fairness is not "bothsidedness". I never read that Brittany Grinder was black or that she was a lesbian. I knew she was s female athlete in possession of some marijuana which she stupidly/ignorantly brought through Russia. The difference is "that side" did not invent facts and invent issues. Pretty different. (I think that some of the complainers about race have a point but not that I saw it apply in that case.
"us" vs "them" - that describes the religious model. You have the "elect" who deserve all the good things vs the "others" who dont deserve anything and they deserve not to deserve anything. It's not a surprise at all that the section of our country where religion and religious doctrine are the strongest is also the region of our country that has historically been most comfortable w the idea of "second class citizenship" even though that concept exists nowhere in a Constitution that specified that ALL have a right to equal protection and due process.
I really liked this interview, I may need to get a copy of this book. I especially appreciate the description and examples of how our interactions have become less and less functional for the majority of people in our country. Thank you
Pessimism .... inate pessimism, must surely be fueling a lot of the grievance culture. JD Vance rose to his current place in congress with his book about West Virginia being infiltrated with narcotic addiction, and grieving, among others, about the uneducated white male's despair leading to suicide.
From the ORANGE REVOLUTION...TO THE REVOLUTION OF DIGNITY! TO THE ASSUMPTION OF DIGNITY THE CONSTITUTION ASPIRES TO To the AGE OF PESSIMISM! AND PERSONAL GRIEVANCES! WE ARE EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW! STILL!
Murray is a fraud with little influence because he tries to masquerade as an intellectual. I am much more worried about the hold creepy libertarian billionaire Peter Theil hold over Senator Vance.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. So grievance makes sense politically, however crappy it is on a societal basis. Crunch time for Bruni: Does F Bruni include AIPAC and The Israel Lobby as the prime grievance mongers in the USA? IF NOT, he is not worth listening to.
Cynicism is a bad knock-off of discernment. Secularized society has lost the inner compass for discernment of truth, because of the adoption of the idea of there only being relative truth. Therefore, just as scientism has taken the place of spirituality, cynicism has taken the place of discernment. But cynicism, unlike discernment, is easily manipulated.
Most of society has been excluded from participating in capitalism. Corporate evisceration of our livelihood is a legitimate grievance, but none of our political candidates will address our exclusion from participation in the economy.
Hey Frank this is Kim in Texas 63 years old. I'm a gay person And I thank you for being honest and open all these years You were brave. But next time you go on Bill Maher who I love tell him what's happened to him in the last 2 years he has changed and quit cozying up with the right people cuz and I mean the right wing people he's starting to act like him I don't like that he can hang out with him but don't become one of them and that's what a lot of people he's lost so much of his audience because of this phase he's going through what is he afraid he's going to get canceled and he's cozy and up to the right anyway just letting you know what So many people feel down here in the gutter. 😊😅
Blaming the decline of standard of living standard on uneducated drug addict is a stunningly elitist statement. Frank, I disagree strongly with your whole premise.
I did not hear that. but I agree there are major issues. When I was growing many years ago, factory jobs were able to support a middle class life style. But now many more products seem to be produce overseas, by passing the american worker.
❤ From My Fair Lady…: [He’s got it. I think he’s got it.]. This fairly describes our current predicament. Trump obviously stokes this, but D’s are not immune. But we indulge in this to our detriment. One solution: make a point to engage, considerately, those with whom you disagree.
Frank we’re talking about Black and Brown people of ALL classes and educational status that experience shorter longevity and higher morbidity rates due to racial bias in our health “system”- privately insured Black and Brown patients have higher morbidity rates than publicly insured Black and Brown patients BUT ALL suffer from deeply embedded racism in our medical ‘system.’
Hmm, I dunno, I don't think he's wrong, but also don't think his thesis is as groundbreaking as he might want to belive, to sell his book. As Michel pointed out, many grievences are valid, and it's not as though this is a new phenomena, goes back millennia.
