FRANKEL "You'll Never See Another Like Him" 

the Juddmonte , STS was still a 3yo

if you're going to use that as an argument surely that makes stone of folca, who was only a handicapper, the greatest sprinter of all time as it holds 5f record. what you need to bear in mind with respective guineas was starting had a lead. Frankel done all its own donkey work when it needed a lead and was tiring at the end. with a lead it would almost certainly have been quicker

stone of folca, what weight did he carry

Relax mate, in the grand scheme of things, it's really not that important.

John Smith In the grand scheme of horse racing. it actually is. As the horse everyone says is far inferior, even though he achieved more, and the stuff he achieved that was the same as Frankel, he achieved it in a faster clock time! (both times, the guineas and the juddmonte or something) and now this is really why it's important. Stars is BLITZING Frankel in the breeding market, as he's having winners all over the place. Hes blood is gold. Same as he's half brother Galileo. He's demolishing Frankel with winners. Thats important.

This obviously keeps you awake at night. You need to get out more and see what's going on in the real world mate. Whether one racehorse is rated higher or lower than another should be the least of your concerns. Comparing horses from different generations is pointless anyway.

Ah! ok, so now you've resorted to insulting my family? That's very mature. I suspected that you were away with the fairies after seeing your original 3 comment rant, this just confirms it. And having a bet does not mean that you're 'in the industry'. You kept on quoting race times, (which is stupid as no 2 races are run exactly the same) but lets go with that anyway, Sea The Stars wouldn't have got anywhere near Danedream in the 2011 Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe which was run on good ground, the same ground as Sea The Stars won that same race on in 2009. The same applies to Bago in 2004, who also won it on good ground, in a time that was over a second faster than Sea The Stars. Does that make those 2 horses better than Sea The Stars?

John Smith On the day.. yes. I mean all the athletes in the world who tend to post the fastest times, are generally the best athletes. You never get very average runners breaking world and track runners, you generally only get the fastest runners breaking those records. Why's it different with horses? And to answer your question properly, if STS was in the race with Danedream he probably would have gotten up ahead of him, as the jockey would have seen he was too far back and he would have come out of cover faster. Probably. I can't say the same for Frankel in the 2000 guinease. STS was a full 2 seconds quicker, and Frankel was kind of running on the spot near the end. Im just saying, the couple of races they ran that were the same, just HAPPENED to have the same rated ground,. on the same track, at the same day of the year. STS was faster in both races by a good amount. And sure, that wouldn't prve he's better alone. But then he goes on to win at 3 distances, impressively. Wins 3 of the boggest races in europe at a mile 4. So he won the big races at a mile, and a mile 2 (faster than Frankels times) and then goes on to trounce the best mile and a half horses, which to be honest is the supreme test of a horses ability, thus why the mile and a half races are the biggest in the world. I love Frankel. I do. But to rate him 147 for hes 14 length win (fine, lets say he was 147), then to have 2 more races after that, one of which he was only 2 lengths ahead at the end, and he STILL kept he's 147 rating? fuck that. Guarantee that if Black Caviar, Zenyatta, Rachel Alexandra, American Pharoa, and that amazing American Mile Wise Dan (who has been close to the world record over a mile like 4 times, within 100's of a second on multiple occasions.. thats not luck thats a monster). were British, and went to America and dominated like they did, especially Zenyatta winning 19 races in a row, Black Caviar winning 22 races and retiring undefeated even after beating all of amerca AND europes best sprinters, you could be sure Timeform would be up their arses too with their 140+ rating. But as i've said many times, if you're unlucky enough to be born in the states, you can automatically just remove 10-20 point's from your Timeform. I wonder what an American horse would have to do to get a 147 rating? Frankel just had to win a grade 1 by 14 lengths against good horses. Funny though, Rachel Alexandra won a few grade 1's by 20 lengths against the best horses in america... why was she only rated in the 120s? makes no sense, American Pharoa, the first horse in over 30 years to win the triple crown against the best horses in america. he then goes on to break the track record in the breeders cup classic winning it by 6 (the biggest margain) and STILL he's feckin' demoted to the low 130s. Honestly i don't know what a non english horse would have to do to get a 147. Secreteriat winning the triple crown by 30 lengths only got him low 140s.. and he's widely considered to be the greatest racehorse of all time. He also SMASHED the world record over a mile and 1/16th i think it was, and 30 years later is STILL hasn't been beaten He beat the world record by 2+ seconds, won by 30 lengths, and Frankel, winning in the UK against non memorable horses get's a better rating? um,... Apologies for the parents thing. Let's keep it civil