Freedesktop BANS Hyprland Maintainer 

In the realm of free software and open source, the spirit of community stands paramount. It's crucial to recognize that political opinions, regardless of their place on the spectrum, can sometimes lead to polarizing changes. What seemed extreme five years ago may not hold the same weight today. This shift in perception underscores the need for ongoing dialogue and adaptability. We must also acknowledge the varied experiences individuals bring to our community. Not everyone has faced harassment, and as a result, some might not grasp the impact of their actions or words. It's essential to approach these situations with empathy and understanding. An apology, as Chris highlighted, can be a powerful step toward healing and moving forward. Positivity should be our guiding principle. Let's focus on contributing constructively and recognizing the efforts of all members. It's important to ensure that no one feels marginalized. Our community is diverse, comprising individuals with different levels of resilience and sensitivity. By organizing our communities thoughtfully, we can create an environment that respects this diversity and maintains a balance that keeps everyone content and engaged.

Better to get banned than let those people think they can influence you

I'm going to do a little trolling and get redhat banned brb

I agree with the crux of the point made here. The best way to handle it was to just say that they were striving to get better and improve the situation, anything further wouldnt benefit Hyprland. I don't think either side is "in the right" because nuance and context is a bit messy but I kind of feel for Vaxry. I don't take his side or condone any of the problematic behaviors but I believe he is in his early 20s and has found himself in a leadership role and that is very young to be in such a position. I remember being that age.

Sounds like a bunch of people getting butt hurt over nothing

It's always a Redhat employee that starts the drama

I do not want to see purity tests imposed on those who contribute and use free and open source software. That's where I fear we are heading for the pursuit of not offending anyone, being "problematic" or having the incorrect political opinions of those who have power and control over FOSS.

I miss the days of the good old forums that got properly moderated etc.. I dislike discord enough to not even go near it, in the last couple of years. What you only have discord, OK I guess we'll never be able to communicate 😅

Adults acting like kids. So just the normal state of things.

Just got into hyprland. Eager to build more with it now.

WoW. Mental illness is getting out of hand.

Seems like vaxry already made a post long ago even before adding the CoC admiting the mistake. I don't know the exact contents or if he appolized or not but it seems he did admit the mistakes

I support Hyprland now even more now.

this might just be the best video covering the situation

Keep politics out of code. And treat others with respect. It’s not hard.

Well. Going to hyperland now

to be honest, wrong stuff on both sides. Immaturity on one, toxic enforcement without explaining why the change is needed on the other. Saying "our rules are rules," does not explain unprofessional behavior as a maintainer.

Ok so who/cares

I can't believe people are still using discord I stopped when they forced me to log on a give personal details to access discord

chris knows what's up 🤣🤣 sway is jealous and wants to take down hyprland, on a more serious note, i guess they shouldn"t call it free desktop anymore. it's censored desktop.

I am watching this on Hyprland. I feel really sad about what is going on.

hyprland, you got my attention.

I'm more concerned that he got banned from contributing to Wlroots than the microaggressions that someone was doing on Discord. Seriously, someone at Red Hat is on a Witch Hunt in Linux Community, this should not be allowed.

This will backfire hard.

Keep politics and activism out of Linux. It’s killing all other industries.

So basically, Drew is pissed because no one cares about Sway anymore.

Software should be about software, not about your orientation, gender, nor your politics and certainly not about hating groups of people or minorities. This world went to shit somehow.

Childish drama. Nothing important to care about. People like to make drama of everything. 😂😂😂 America is fck up with this whole prounce thing.

Demands and ultimatums never sit well with anyone. How did they think this was going to be any different...?

I'm old and don't give two 💩s about someone's pronouns or political affiliations. If they want to ban me, so be it. If they want to cancel me, awesome. I don't try to offend anyone, but it happens from time to time. As I'm sure the post I'm writing here will offend someone. Just my two cents.

They're jealous that as a DE/compositor hyprland is years ahead of everything they did .

Free as in free speech

not really related to this particular case but i was wondering.. is there any way to "un f-ck " someones life if they apologized after all that? like is there some sort of a redemption mechanism in place? What if a person has a change of heart all of a sudden and offer a sincere public apology but theyd be unable to make money ? or does it only go one way spreading negativity further and blowing things up even from tete-a-tete conversations?

Good to know Hyprland's dev's power level is over 9000

Everyone involved should be banned for using discord

hyprland: I thought this was a free software

nah that’s some bs. OVER A 2 YEAR comment on discord????? cmon man. this person better not be on twitter then

Imagine being of such weak internal fortitude that you are triggered and completely thrown off by someone calling you the wrong pronouns. So many crybabies out there.

I don't get it all, but I love hyprland so much. I hope the people sort out their differences and we can all enjoy the goodness.

hyprland maintainers and users can do and say what they want. That's their right. Others have the right to tell them to take the L and not have to work with them. That's not trolling. Freedom of speech doesn't shield you from the consequences.

ok I get liking hyprland and being bummed, and I like free speech, but Im also a big fan of being able to respond to things however you personally see fit, even if that means some fists being swung (as long as ppl are similar sized and no sucker punches). I find it incredibly annoying that a lot of the more offensive member of the "free speech" crowd wanna bully other ppl but then flip out if someone does something back. If your using slurs and being hateful ppl are going to want to even the score and they cant do that with words unless they also respond with some form of bigotry, so when you act like these guys did, yea there are going to be a lot of ppl who get even with something other than words, like banning your program. the other thing I dont get is why ppl outside the situation try to split the middle on this stuff. If you dont make excuses for ppl being hateful theyll be a lot less likely to do it in the first place, and when thy get called out theyll be a lot less likely to try to weather the storm without apologizing.

I don't feel safe watching this video.

Just because the maintainer of sway commented on what's going on with Vaxry doesn't mean he trying to win some popularity contest. The key details are in the beginning of the post where DeVault explicitly states he tried to reach out to Vaxry multiple times. Now Vaxry is having a meltdown on his blog over everything. Quite frankly, his blog posts are anything but mature, and that goes for more than just this "drama." He tried to clap back (which never ends well) in response to Lyude and that's what ultimately resulted in his ban. I would also like to point out that bans for violation of codes of conduct or terms of service outside of the platform 100% happen all the time. Twitch, for example, has a policy in place for things like that; if your behavior on Twitter is in violation of Twitch's guidelines, they will ban you from their platform for however long. Twitter used to do the same thing but then Elon fired the moderation team so yeah...but I digress.

freedesktop acting like some fascists lol how ironic

You can't get trolled Chris when the sender email is from official redhat servers.. 😔

Merit should always triumph over opinion. Seems like there's no malice in the comments, just some edgy jokes. Huge over reaction from subpar admin who doesn't maintain anything in reality but rather there just to be moral police. Bunch of children

Keep the activism bullshit out of the computing world. Ban all the emojis, pronouns, and absurd aliases.

So it's not that Discord sucks, it's that it was never meant or built from the ground up to house large projects or communities. It was always meant for small groups to interact about specific topics like certain games or just a place for your group of friends to hang out. But as human nature did what it always does, people started using it to create their own walled garden communities where they can hoist control over other members. That's why this drama happens. I will say though, there is zero reason for people to get upset about a change and demand that another community change, especially when we are talking about something as small as a group of developers for cool software that very few people (relatively speaking) use. This person, if they were so upset at a silly pronoun change from their server roles, they should have just left a passive acknowledgement of the change in the server as a message, and leave the Discord and project. The fact that another trans person at Red Hat found out, meant there was likely some networking and coercion going on here, which just makes the people hurt, look bad. I don't have an issue with trans people, but... if I could give any advice to those people, it would simply be this... Don't make a huge deal out of super small things like labels, and stuff that is not actively harming you when you could simply walk away and make your own thing, your own community. Raging about something like this, is only going to make all the people that do have problems with trans people, even more justified in why they think what they do about your community. If someone pokes fun at a label associated with you, simply brush it off as if someone is telling you something you've heard a million times. If you truly believe you are what you are, then why would someone making a very cheap jab, affect you? It takes zero effort to make a trans joke, but it's the biggest thing in the world to some of you? It shouldn't be, it's just a cheap jab. Personally, I see this happen time and time again, and it starts to make me think that a lot of trans people are indecisive and unconfident with how they think they are as a person, that they have to blow things out of proportion to, at this point, seemingly make it believable for themselves, let alone anyone else. Just ignore the trolls, and be yourself, it's that simple. All things considered, this is just a stupid, dramatic, lose-lose ordeal.

My personal summary, as a suckless DWM user: Right wingers write better window managers :-)

watching it on hyprland 🤣

Do they all realize that the quality of code is independent of whether someone subscribes to woke agenda ?

Gonzalez Lisa Williams Mary Martin Kenneth

This gives computer people a bad name no straights allowed on Linux

When hating minorities is just a political thing lol.

So my take is that I don't care about other's pronouns at all BUT I don't like the forcing of them onto anyone. Stay on the topic that the 'forum' is created for, keep all pronouns out of the discussion.. A user profile is 'private/personal' and if a moderator wants to change it, has to ask! unless the TOS for that particular 'forum' explicitly states the right to modify a profile without consent. I see this ban as 'WOKE' toxic behavior. Making a bigger issue from something small. Sure there is an issue here, BUT it should not be affecting other accounts on 'forum(s)/platforms' than the one that the issue was occuring on. IMO Don't force anyone to do a thing. Allow everyone to do their thing. Be respectful to everyone who earned it.. 🌱 😇😎❤️😁

I agree this is all stupid but I think your take is bad on this Chris. I don't think Hyperland dev should apologize. We need to quit letting these communal tyrants attempt to control peoples speech. The idea he needs to apologize is wild to me. Actually, Red Hat needs to apologize for injecting politics into other communities and in general being a shitty company towards open source as of the last few years. Anyways, this makes me glad I switch to Hyperland.

I don't know what is worse, trying to enforce some sort of "law" over nerds or having like 10 videos a day over some stupid childish drama. Remember when back in the end of the 90s - 2000s we joked about the "internet police" when someone posted an edgy/politically incorrect joke (for those who don't get it, the internet was considered unpoliceable back then) well.. here we are boys and girls

At this point because he's been banned? Does that mean wlroots and the fsf can steal / use his code?

So is this again related to LGBT like that last week's drama on the Arch discord?

Vaxry is right

That sucks, it's just a two side of the same coin situation and both side sucks. I hope this doesn't lead to the product(code) being cared less, and instead the priority being "which side are you on". This is literally a kindergarten fight between the two biggest losers in the school thinking one of them is the best. In situations like that, you always lose.

"I apologize for not playing into the 'trans' bullshit."

but who/cares fr

Michael Jordan once said this: Republicans buy sneakers too. It seems people don't understand what he meant still by this statement.

i get a full blue screen activate windows notification and i can't close it for 5 seconds,then when i want to close its open the settings.Its really annoing when gaming.(i used a spoofer before and reinstalled the windows ).Can you help me?

They/them cause May/hem

i would have promoted the discord mod

This drama is such bull. I mean yeah, as you stated, those comments were in bad taste, but all of this should never have escalated to the point its at now. Can't stand drama, so I try my best to avoid it. Really, this kind of thing just makes all Linux individuals, from the coders to the users look bad. We can do better.

That character Lyude tries to set rules for a server that is not owned by FreeDesktop or Red Hat. How ridiculous is that? Oh, the entitlement!

Love that who/cares 😂😂

of course the comment section is full of bigotry why wouldn’t it be

Nothing but respect for the Hyprland maintainer. As you say the people that came scold him acted like trolls, so he is not gonna cave for bullies like that. If you come complain about "toxic community" blah blah blah, I immediately disregard your opinion

Judging by the comments I definitely will be a minority opinion. I haven't seen anything of this beyond your video, but the "he already wanna go get AIDS" comment is wrong and you kind of floated past that. I think it goes beyond saying its just someone not agreeing with someones political views as you said. I get wanting to be in the middle of this and say people are equally being silly, but I don't see that. There is definitely a more-wrong party just going off of this video. As for what a better result could have been, I have no clue. I only just started using Mint a few months ago so I am a baby. I do wonder if maintaining positivity with Redhat was also an important factor, but idk. Like I said, linux baby.

Man, where are the simpler times, where internet was a "wild-west", where anyone was able to say anything they want, and everyone around wouldn't care. What in the hell happened to the internet? How does large % of humanity been degrated? Why is everyone so soft these days????

nah cuz vaxry is actually very important

"who/cares" is fucking funny LMAOoooooooo

Incredibly disappointed with so much of this. Linux community is comprised so largely of diverse and amazing people, ideas, and identities. Being lgtbq+ myself, and having faced homophobia and transphobia in my day to day, I can only express bitter disappointment in both the Vaxxry and the discord's overall handling of the situation. The "who/cares" thing has also been minimized in so, so many videos covering this issue, and it's becoming sickening because based on nearly every coverage of this event, it starts to become pretty obvious the Hyprland community is not going to care, as they themselves suggest. Pronouns are so simple, how people get so twisted over the basic English language is beyond me, but to go out of their way to actively impress transphobic attitudes and actions onto someone who just wanted to be part of the community- the ban is not only deserved, but I hope a lesson for a lot of these people carrying hateful attitudes and trying to bring those attitudes into FOSS, nonetheless on a scale like that of Hyprland. It seems like most of the coverage is from cis perspectives, so Im not shocked that most attitudes have been "This is drama, this is drama" It is until it isnt. This is someone being harassed. This is many people being harassed. This is many people being harassed by discord individuals who cannot carry the maturity to participate in FOSS. The "cant we all just get along" doesnt apply in a case where one person was just blatantly harassed, or based on the poll wasnt it 40% of persons? If only one side is respectful, while the other side acts in derogatory and hateful ways towards the respectul side, there is no problem of getting along, there is a problem of basic respect, and the onus to fix that is NOT on the one being harassed. If this isnt stopped and addressed, what will prevrnt the hate from spreading to other FOSS communities in the future? Tl;dr long rant over, why does a FOSS project have a discord if the community therein cannot behave in accordance with basic respect for other people, their identities, and their experiences. And to anyone who wants to express that hate in replies, remember there will always be people who are living their lives happily while you live hateful in internet spaces. Not my favorite video talking about this, none of them have been, but at least you cover the topic more succinctly and honestly than most. Best.

who/cares??? i may not want to fuck with they/them but if they/them write good software i will use it despite fucks or no fucks

most of the people's comments I'm seeing here are so chronically online. or at least so fragile. its open source. let this person who has the talent but not the tact to conduct themselves maturely go fork it and do their own thing. instead of complaining about how opressive and misguided the org is or whatever, how about getting your money together to support the free thinker on their own journey and not yelling on here as if this is going to be the path toward the great awakening. i wouldnt want this person working with me either; managing people with these opinions if they wont stay in their lane and work with others (and this goes both ways, believe it or not - its bipartisan to use your party affiliation to stop rational independent thought) can be more trouble than it's worth if they stir up more shit than product. like, yeah, id rather have someone that can talk with other people only rather than someone who can contribute to the code only. codewriters are a dime a dozen, decent people aren't. easier to teach wlroots than empathy.

This comment section so far is filled with transphobia and people downplaying the problem, and as a bisexual person myself, it's incredibly disheartening. Let me make one thing clear: there's no debate to be had here. Vaxry is in the wrong, he said some screwed up crap and he's paying the price. Welcome to the world. Nobody should feel unwelcome with who they are, and the trans individual was not even being annoying. Because of this, I have switched away from Hypr back to Sway, for the foreseeable future. Vaxry had it coming and the Freedesktop project is free to enforce their CoC how they wish, *end of discussion.* Edit: After watching the video more, Titus said it best. A bunch of adults acting like kids.

Why did you need to make this video? All you've done is given anti-trans people a place shout off thier opinions.

Ok to call computer people incels just not nonces

Based freedesktop, i hope they continue this gigachad behavior 🔥🔥🔥

Delete the discord!

I agree with Vaxry, don't apologize he didn't nothing wrong. If someone don't like what he said, he can leave. period. I'm autistic but no one calls me IT. like give me a break. Transgender people can't make others say what they feel and or think.

“Not open for discussion”. Absolutely ridiculous attitude.

Only if he just used an Ai generated response. Ai is a GREAT PR agent btw! Two kids fighting each other because they are both butthurt over each over. I am sad to see him get banned over Nothing. He hasn't done any criminal acts, sabotaged the project and got banned for acting like a child. I love hyper land and I am sad to see him go, people really got to become more mature. We can't progress if we all fight like little kids and I mean that for both of them.

I don't agree with proliferation of pronouns being in profiles, but changing someone's profile as a mod is tacky and unprofessional.

Tbh everything about this drama is so cringe. Both sides are pretending to not play an agenda (when they coearly are) and both sides are acting like victimized babies. Its so cringe

wild times

Linus said it best when someone asked him about him being mean to people "You can just choose to not get offended or you can just choose not to work with me. There is a lot of people that I don't like but they contribute good code and I put up with it" look up "Linus Torvalds on his insults: respect should be earned."

So what’s next Reddit will ban unixporn hyprland uploads?

Does this mean that the „Free“ in FOSS is now silent?

if people just separated real life from the internet. thing would be so much easier politics, personal opinions, ideology etc etc. keep real life stuff to real life and just be some random guy on the internet.

was waiting for Chris' view on this.. finally happened 😂

do you have to be polite for redhat to lock your code behind a paywall now?

Reddit users point to apologies being made within six months of the initial incident. This has no place 'hamstringing' GNU-Linux.

telling the truth from biology class is called bulling by snowflakes...lol

Ah, I'm not alone! I've never associated sex, race or anything personal with code. I've admired beautiful code without a thought of who is behind it, and I've seen awful code without a thought of who is behind it. Thank you for speaking up. Freedesktop's "political branch" is reducing software quality for all of us.

I'm with the who cares guy on this one. Cause guess what... NO ONE ACTUALLY DOES CARE. We're literally all just trying to live our lives. I don't have time to guess or stop myself talking because my brain is rendering different information that what YOUR beliefs just happen to be at that moment. Everyone always gets so damn butt hurt for LITERALLY EVERYTHING. Just stfu and let other people live as long as they aren't effecting your life.