I love the dichotomy of Mike saying "please don't get mad" immediately followed by both Micah and Charlie saying something to upset as many people as possible
@@roadapple66 robert kennedy who just beat all the big phrama in court came out and said fauci nih outsourced bioweapons resaearch aka c19 to ukraine to avoid the death penalty
Ignorant statement. Springfield makes comparable quality products to Glock and SIG and thats why they're still one of the best sold and rated firearms👌 🇺🇸
@@fight4ourright306 you mean like there whole line of polymer pistols and this vhs they ship in from overseas Edit maybe they don't ship them I could be mistaken they may have they rights to produce them here. Either way they didn't define them.
"The Springfield Armory Hellion, much like their Hellcat pistols, is an imported firearm made by a Croatian manufacturer, HS Produkt. “Hellion” is the American name for the HS Produkt VHS-2 rifle."
Dustin have the issues with the 105 been dealt with? I've been thinking about grabbing one. I know Palmetto is very busy with other projects, I'm hoping the 105 hasn't been forgotten like the MP5 clone
Lol seriously.. and my favorite things they have are the ak chambered in 5.56 and the ar in 7.62x39. I thought about buying them both just for shits and giggles but i'll probably end up with their AK-V (9mm)
@@MonstaFreak13 Used to have an AKV with an ALG trigger. Definitely recommend. That thing was so much fun. People can say what they want about Palmetto, but they seem to be improving and I'll be damned if they don't put out several new clones / versions on the AK market. Their spiker clone is on my list now.
Gotta love Charlie’s statement “back-blast area clear” after Mike picks up the first rifle, then turns around and plugs his ears thru his Comtacs. Charlie is a legend.
Coming from someone who served in the Estonian army with a Galil during a winter with an average of -10c: we all had the occasional malfunction, but generally it ran quite well. The most important part was putting on a little less oil than during the warmer months so it didn't clog as it froze.
And to be fair there's a difference between a gun being cold and pouring water directly into a gun and letting it freeze solid. But snow is a bitch to guns, I managed ti make my AR fail after throwing it in dust cover open side down
Charlie is the chaotic goodness I needed in my life after I lost my best friend. He’s not dead or anything, he just has a kid and no longer has time for shenanigans.
As a married but childless middle age adult I totally get this. The sad thing is it continues on and on and on. A huge chunk of your friends (even the ones that profess to hating kids) will have children when they get married. And if they didn't forget you existed when they first got married they most definitely will the second they have kids. I think its because as a married yet happy childless couple we are living proof that they didn't actually *have* to procreate after getting married and everytime we mention sleeping in on weekends, planning vacations around what we want to do or having extra money for ourselves its like salt being rubbed in the wound. Lol Two of my best friends are around the same age as me and both are married and both are kidless and intend to stay that way and both couples describe the exact same treatment from their (previous) friends who now have kids. They stop calling, stop visiting, and eventually just go totally radio silent and a quick look at their Facebook pages shows their new life of indebted servitude. ;)
@@bp968I never want kids. People have slated me for it but idc. I can't think of anything worse than losing all my free time, money, wiping up piss shit and vomit up, losing sleep etc. I'll stick with my parrot haha
@@domenik8339 It’s just a meme, what’s so dang bad about it? Eta- never mind. Didn’t know it had far right extremist meaning. Literally just liked the picture because it was a frog doing that scene from once upon a time in Hollywood.
@@1bigboi_629 that’s why I like being a uncle. I can hand back my siblings kids at the end of the day. My oldest nephew is 6 and he is an absolute blast to be around.
The fact that Mike didnt react to Charlie saying "its not really getting in there as much as i would like" shows how serious he was worried about the hangfire.
I've only ever shot steelcase for that reason. There's no reloading the brass that gets ripped out of there. I've seen pictures of cases ripped in half lmao.
@Your JOEtivation true but it was also snowing and they were dug into snow which I would assume allow moisture to get in and in a temperature where it's going to freeze quicker
Only way for the Chosin few to escape to saftey was Canadian Machine Gunners on Amphetamines with Millions of bullets and no sleep for days and days. 🇨🇦
When I went through Parris Island we had some Korean War Marines come and talk to us. They said that in Chosin if you had to piss you waited for an attack because you needed that piss to free the bolt up on your rifle. Respect.
In the Swedish army they told us to shit and piss when preparing to fight since getting hit in a full bladder will be worse than getting hit in an empty one.
@@antonw-uw4ov It actually makes a lot of sense. Also makes it far less likely that you will go septic. If you literally are full of $h!+ and get hit in the stomach, all that waste could kill you super quick. I bet having an empty stomach might actually "help", since it would basically just be stomach acid, which maybe could antiseptize things?
The one thing I’ve learned from these videos, if anything, is if you do have a frozen rifle, and the safety and trigger will move and you do manage to get a first round off, you’d better make damn sure that shot counts. Cause the chances of getting a full cycle seems quite thin.
The cz bren2 test would have passed the test perfectly, the button does not freeze and it is easy to return it to the built-in. this is verified even in MAC bren2, neither the button nor the mechanism is frozen, and the reset button did not even have a hint of priming. cz bren2 is simply the best weapon hello from ukraine i am a military man and dealt with bren2 he is ideal.
@@skydivemurr The cz bren2 test would have passed the test perfectly, the button does not freeze and it is easy to return it to the built-in. this is verified even in MAC bren2, neither the button nor the mechanism is frozen, and the reset button did not even have a hint of priming. cz bren2 is simply the best weapon hello from ukraine i am a military man and dealt with bren2 he is ideal.
I love how the VHS-2 will singlehandedly revive Springfields reputation. Even though springfield doesnt even produce these weapons, some will associate it with springfield because they renamed it for their own gain.
I was fortunate enough to know a gentleman several years ago that fought in the Battle of The Bulge. Me being the gun enthusiast I am I had to ask him how their M-1’s faired in the cold weather, he said when they woke in the morning they all peed on the actions of their rifles to unfreeze them. He swore by the M-1 Garand
My father was in Germany during WW2 and I've heard stories about the war, cold freezing rain and snow while hiding in a foxhole at dawn for instance, and they did the same... They were definitely a different group back then...
That reminds me of a documentary I watched years ago where one of the guys talked about having waves of Germans coming at them. He was the gunner on an M2 and, since they were going cyclical on the krauts, the barrel got red-hot. His A-gunner stood up in the middle of a massive firefight and pissed on the barrel of the M2. The guy said, "I still don't know how he was able to squeeze it out under that much enemy fire, but he did and it worked!" 🤣
@@frankrenda2519 Well, not for accuracy, but the AK was designed to be an oversized SMG and no one needed to bother thinking about hitting anything past 300 yards back then. Modern U.S. made AKs can meet or exceed ARs for accuracy, though, depending on which ones you're comparing.
@@dredlord47 modern AK-74s can be just as accurate as an AR you are correct about that, 762x39 is heavy so it drops really fast which is bad for accuracy in Old AKs but a light more modern round like 5.45x39 is very accurate, 5.45 is basically Russian 5.56 it was literally made as a response to the 5.56 performance and market. For the modern AK accuracy isn't a problem.
After watching MAC's tour of their facility I'm a definite fan of PSA now. They don't cut corners, and yet still put out reasonably priced pieces that perform.
Wouldn't expect to see much of a difference. The big differences between cheap and expensive AK's seems to be more about steel grade and machining costs rather than parts dimensions or finish
The auto parts stores sell these small cans of de-ice spray for locks. Wonder how well that would work on guns and if it would be worthwhile keeping it in a winter kit
It's just methanol, you can buy gallon cans for dirt cheap and fill the bottle of your choice for WAY less money than buying those cans. Also, aerosol cans don't work well in freezing conditions, a squeeze bottle is best.
Or you could just "pee" on your rifle and de-ice too. This way you don't have to carry more stuff in your kit. Or have the added weight. I'm being serious too. Your pee is coming out at 98 degrees.
As a Hawaiian who has no idea what snow looks, feels, or tastes like, I'm just going to take my firearms to an industrial food freezer and replicate these tests to the best of my ability.
@@Token_Black_Guy Yes, guns are easy to get here despite the tyrannical registration. Suppressors and shit though...that's harder than scoring an Asian girl with natural JJ cup juggies out here.
To be fair, if they had pried the dust covers open manually, the Hellion would have had 0 issues total. Technically speaking, both the 105 and the Hellion only had 1 issue each. Stuck dust cover and frozen mag.
I love the way you guys involve everyone in the videos, its so relaxed and enjoyable to watch. Traditional media has got the formula all fucked up, this format is so much better. Great video mate.
I love the insane amount of trash talk about the Springfield hellion and how well it performed. Remember its pretty much the VHS-2 and springfield didnt make it.
You could see a ton of ice buildup around the dust cover -- which is probably why it couldn't eject the first round. On another day, that gun may have just emptied an entire magazine without a hiccup.
I got a Springfield Saint Victor like 3 years ago as my first AR, it was like 1300 bucks but I've already got 2k+ rounds through it and the only "problem" I've had was a crushed rubber washer beneath the extractor spring. The XD series pistols are mostly trash but the whole company in general gets more shit than it probably deserves
I wish I was in on the setup for this video. I would have suggested you could use one sport bottle of warm water to simulate pissing on it to get the rifle up and running.
The vhs2 better but the idiot closed both ejection ports! It is no dust cover! No need, AK no need for dust core too. Only AR and similar crap needs. All othe failed us production. 🤣🤣🤣
Well if you remember the story of the Marine who was at the Chosin Reservior and slept with his M1 under his coat, the other Marines laughed at him until they were attacked by the Chinese and his rifle was the only one that worked.
Interesting story, I recall reading that some Marines had to urinate on the M1s action to unfreeze them. Makes sense after seeing this video. Makes me wonder if the water had been warmer if it would have helped a lot.
The SIG 553 has a gas valve at the front that can be turned. It gives additional power to the reload mechanism for frozen or dirty conditions. The Valve can be turned with a big knife/bayonet. And all this mag problems with the other weapons, the SIG 553 has plastic mags to prevent freezing to the gun, also the release mechanism is optimized for such conditions. Greetings from Switzerland.
KNS (in the US) made an oversized safety thumb selector for the 550 series. I had one on a 551, and if I was in freezing conditions, or knew that it is going to freeze, or even rain, I would have already turned the gas setting to "dirty". The only negative is the "Swiss clock hammer spring", and trigger assembly. I prefer the modern AR drop in assembly ! Many drop-in assemblies will prevent a blown (dislodged) primer from jamming up the rearward travel of the hammer, or from lodging under the trigger assembly. I run a CMC drop in now, with strike industries non rotating trigger pins (no tool disassembly required). It has performed flawlessly and is very practical. If the two above could go into a STG90 ! ! ! Ideal. I had no issues or problems with the plastic magazines. Both the AR and the SIG intended the magazines to be DISPOSABLE, use them for one tour of combat, or 4 years training, then throw them away. Preventative maintenance.
The biggest problem we had when I was in the Norwegian army was snow in the muzzle. If that freezes and you shoot, shit could go very wrong. We use HK 416, i have never had any problems with it, even in -35°C. You just have to be careful about moisture (not bringing your rifle in a tent hot enough to melt the snow to water), and brushing your rifle to remove snow and ice
100% spot on. Military bases all over the world in sub-freezing temperatures, and they have no problems with guns. The real issue is moisture and barrel obstructions, not your gun getting "too cold." Additionally, this is more of a meme than a torture test. No one, literally no one is going to dunk their rifle in water and then leave it out to freeze. Even more: try and shoot it without cleaning it beforehand if it was left outdoors in these kinds of conditions.
I’m in the finnish army and this test is actually pretty realistic. You’re outside and your gun gets snowy, you go in a tent and the snow melts all over the gun and you get back outside and the water freezes freezing the gun.
You don’t even need the snow. Condensation will form on every surface when you go into the tent. In Alaska we leave the weapons outside during exercises.
I live up North in the U.S, this is a realistic scenario. The one that came to my mind is sometimes when it snows here, the temperature is still above freezing, so the snow is 'wet snow'/slushy mix...but later in the night it will drop below freezing, potentially freezing any wetted equipment.
@@509Gman idk man if I was a soldier I don't think I want to leave my gun outside. That sounds like a bad habit. You need your gun and suddenly they're gone and that's right when you get shot and die
@Hulk Hogan dancing isrealis Lavon affair, operation Northwoods..... Europa the last battle is a must watch for anyone who isn't a scared little communist f@660+ ......
Hellion is a derivative of VHS2. The VHS2, like every other weapon manufactured by HS-Produkt, has been treated in: dust, sand, salt bath, clay mixed with water, freezing, high temperature and a drop from 6.5ft, with and without a bullet in the chamber. The tolerance between the moving elements offers the compactibility of exchanging parts. Regardless of all the gripes of the trigger lever, it is a reliable rifle that does not need a hammer support.🙂
I bought a Hellion 3 months ago and have been impressed with the workmanship and function. In addition to a firing pin spring the Hellion also has a spring loaded firing pin block safety that prevents the firing pin from moving forward until the hammer pushes the block safety out of the way. Basically two safety's to prevent slam fires. This maybe the reason the trigger pull is about 7.5 pounds, that is needed to overcome the heavy trigger spring. So what is this “hammer support” that you are talking about? Also, I wish HS Produkt would have applied a anti-rust coating to the bolt.
@@retirednobaddays456 Hammer support as in the gun didn't need to be hammered like a lot of others in order to function. Because you know, it was frozen.....
Well apparently the Croatians know how to build a rifle that worksish in freezing conditions...Springfield just jacked up the price and put their stamp on it. Hollar back when they build something original rifle wise that works. I bet if they made an ak they'd put grip zone on the grip and say it's an all new design.
@Hulk Hogan There *_WERE NO_* female Sailors killed on 08JUN1967 aboard the USS Liberty, how about you *_LEARN_* about what you want to be ever so sanctimonious about?
Love these tests, as someone who lives in Wisconsin--where it's currently 25 and somehow only gonna get colder throughout the day--this is extremely relevant.
@@AverageBritishNerd1138 VHS 2 is tested to -50 degrees Celsius to meet the standards of our military so no suprise it performed very well...greetings from Croatia
Love how the hellion being completely shit on was the first one to run flawless if it wasn't for the dust cover being stuck it probably would have eject that round too lmao
Been using the HK G3 for 10 years in the army, I had higher hopes! Still, it's a hell of a gun, has never let me down, thanks for making these kinda videos! Keep it up, man!
Different tools for different jobs, it best to own one or more in 5.56, and one AK in either 5.56 or 7.62x39 per person. Without ammo the AK is just a club and there is far more .223 out there. Save the AK for winter time. For most untrained persons I recommend the AK for year around, because it is fool proof and requires almost no maintenance. My personal tests are too extreme and too expensive, possible destruction or major damage to the rifle to replicate. The AK is ideal for extreme austere conditions, and for persons who do not know how to maintain the rifle. When a person does these test themselves, and when the rifle fails to operate, the experience is personal and truly valuable. AK's are not perfect, but if I could only chose one, it is the AK. However, if your friends are all running AR's, you better have an AR. AR's are a good all around rifle, yet severe environmental conditions, and level of training must be considered. I am no expert, just a guy who has had many decades of experience to learn the hard way, and glad I did. In freezing conditions, one might be better off with an SKS than an AR if you do not know how to lubricate the AR, and otherwise mitigate. In extreme cold, well below zero, I will always grab the AK even if I cannot hit a barn when firing from inside the barn.. . The AK does not usually group shots, it provide a consistent cone of fire. It is rude, crude, and effective, and more effective, because it can be reliable even when shooting inexpensive soft point ammunition that stops the fight faster than the AR. Ever hunt big game? What is that worth?!
Well, I would take VHS-2 over AK any time. VHS don't care about conditions - it works. On freeze, rain, in water, dust, sand... they don't give a f..k.
Considering the Hellion aka the VHS-2 was designed and made by HS Produkt for use by the Croatian military and they experience cold wet winters at a similar temperature it passing was not a surprise.
This is actually quite educational watching how to safely deal with malfunctions. Hey GT - what about a video on "winterizing your rifle? what can you do to help it perform in the cold? Like what if you ever find yourself as part of the rebel forces on planet Hoth?? your equipment has to work. For example would you ever use diesel vs regular gun lube? can you wrap certain parts of the rifle to prevent snow from getting in? etc.
@@borkwoof696 ambient temperature..-10 to -30 C up in the mountains....I don't think you can keep more than a pistol under the jacket ....rifles...no way
@@andreivo6581 that's why you leave them outside. Biggest danger is ice getting on your rifle. Then you take it inside to where the ice melts and gets inside it. Then when you're back outside the water freezes inside the firearm and you get these sort of problems
Seeing the VHS-2 working almost perfect makes my day~ 😙 I mean come on ~ It’s a beautiful rifle! Please don’t hate it just because the damn Springfield give it a terrible name in US.
Springfield just sucks. They sell an imported rifle they gave a dumb name to, a pistol that is pretty good but again they don't make it, 1911s which Colt brought to market a hundred years ago, and they sell an M1A which was the worst cold war rifle and they don't even use forged receivers like Fulton does.
I think its disrespecgtful to be so sceptical about hellion. I dont know how many people are familliar that Hellion is in fact Croatian rifle ( HS Protukt VHS-2) what stands for "multifunctional croatian machinegun" that is used by croatian army and special forces. It was used for years in its first iterration (VHS1) wich has some minor flaws but in second itteration they are all fixed. Of corse it is not perfect but is combat proven in afganistan and other NATO mission that Croatia partricipated and it showh as very very reliable. The Hellion has nothing to do with SA its only imported by SA and its completely produced in Croatia. When France was choosing a new rifle for its army in 2017, the VHS 2 finished 2nd in the competition, just behind the German HK416 F. Some sources state that it was even better than the HK416 F, but it was minor, so they chose germany rifle due to political reasons.
@@BabyMachine it better be, it's an AR15. Everyone and their brother makes those. I'll give Springfield the credit of actively selling a 16" midlength with a FSB. Some people dont like those, but it's really the proper civilian M4 because 16" carbines have always been kinda terrible.
Here the hellion is far better, the idiot closed both ejection ports not the VHS2. How stupid one can be. That is no dust cover, it is ejection port cover, ejection side is always open, it is not US made weapon, therefore no need for some additional dust cover.
Oh snap, I own a VHS-2 as my first 5.56 gun after growing up my whole life with AK's and FAL's. It's been a great gun for me and because of that I thought I'd crash and burn in the test...Glad I'm still proud of it! I also laughed out loud when the G3 sent it's brass into dark space, never to be seen by brass ghouls ever again 😂
VHS-2 was made to replace AK and it had to perform better as to be accepted as military standard for Croatian army. It went through some really brutal testing (ice, salt water, sand, etc.) since we have all kinds of weather here (from freezing winters to boiling summers) so it wasn't actually surprise for me. Greetings from Croatia.
I love watching your videos,because beside you are a expirienced Army man,you do have sence of humor and positive energy. Thank you for that. 👍 But in this video ...from the begining ....your scepticism toward Croatian Hellion imported by Springfield ... I would say,whose under your level of a professional. I understand,you have negative stand toward Springfield as Company because they said something wrong. But to blamish and laugh at HS Product rifle ...after all the expiriences with their XD - XDM - XD Mod 2 - XDS - Hellcat - usage of VHS rifles in Afganistan,Iraq,Croatia,Kosovo ..under real working conditions ... Don t forget that Croats fought Homeland War mostly with Yugoslav version of AK-47 , H&K G-3 and FAL. War on Balkan area in winter ...it is something you would remember for life. Reliability,endurance,ease of maintenance ...all are aspects which where on the table when VHS-2 whose buildt. Does it have a trigger as Custom AR-15 rifle do ? No,it doesn t ,but it does have the Best trigger out of any Bullpup rifles in the World. Superfine trigger in winter or under high stress,with gloves on your hands when all hell is broke loose .... I would choose less perfect and more controlable trigger. War is not shooting range picnic under perfect conditions,and VHS is constructed and buildt for War. Not for showing of. From my stand of point,only minus of VHS-2 and Hellion is that it doesn t have 7,62x39 , 6,5 Grendel and 308 Win models,and 20" barrel. Everything else is 👍 Best regards from Croatia !
I bet every Croatian combat arms soldier watching this video was sweating bullets watching that Hellion test 👀💧 In all seriousness: Looks like Croatia was right to go home-brew rather than adopt the Tavor.
As a Canadian, the x95 is one of the last reliable black rifles available to us. Thanks for featuring it in this test. Maybe a review video is in order?
I got a X95 a few months ago so far i love it. I live in WA and its a constant battle for our basic human right to own weapons no matter their characteristics. Never back down.
I'm with you; I was pleasantly surprised as well. I didn't really like it when we had one at my LGS, but nice to confirm the Croatians make solid guns.
Everyone knows that soldiers at the battle of the bulge were made to dunk their garands in water and let them freeze over without being warmed in any way except for a bottle of lukewarm water
also have to think unless these guys drop is in water in that cold even just 4 degrees out can be cold with wind shit 20 degrees def going to need some shit to bring with you if you know your in the cold or will be for sure i like how they did this test because anything below like 30 with wind will give you issues just like it being hot out shooting all day kind of deal get more gunk and shit in it as well idk either wya this was a cool video get you thinking
So the "shocking" conclusion is that a safeties with a huge lever arm (ak) work better than short lever arm safeties, and that a rifle designed to work in freezing conditions in a country where those conditions are very common, is actually better in freezing conditions.
It's way beyond just the safety, AK also don't have the problems with the bolt locking back, trigger mechanism freezing up etc. Lots of points of failure. In Alaska some police departments even ditched AR's and use AK platforms as their primary rifles.
@@bradenmchenry995 No it actually isn't. In extreme cold a typical thing that happens is your weapon may work for the first mag or two just fine. However after it has heated up in the cold it gets covered in condensation, or it's snowing on it and melts, then in a lull when you are not shooting the gun gets cold, all that moisture re freezes, and you end up with similar results.
So usually up here where the video is filmed, you get cold, snow and sometimes freezing rain, and as they stated, this may not be a realistic test, but it is fun. It could happen over hours though. I would like to see these rifles spend the night outside, no added water in our next snow storm. Wake up before dawn and test again.
