This was the most informative and entertaining video of all the conversions I've watched. I now know that I will never attempt this. I already know the woodworking is not my best talent - I am a hack and I can't hide it. I'm not even a huge fan of fretless playing but I wanted to find out by watching this instead of ruining an instrument. Mission accomplished! The candid commentary was just the best!
In the back of my imagination, I would turn to Kiesel to build me an instrument with similar fingerboard coating to this. Not sure that I would request for them to use CA glue, but the outcome with a protected fingerboard that would allow me to do the same type of slap bass that Les Claypool does, along with any other person who would slap on a fretless, would be the purpose for having such a mod done.
Thanks for sharing this video. You've explained the process and things you learned along the way very well. Almost like 'the scientific method'. My son pulled out the frets on his Ibanez 5 string a year or so ago, and really doesn't know how to put a protective finish on the neck. It's an under $500 bass so he's not been too keen on taking it to a luthier. ❤️🎸🎶😎
Great video and thanks for taking the trouble :) Also like the technical depth, and honest objective final report. Top marks. I'm also an Ibanez player, my go-to brand.. Best value for money :)
A couple of notes about activator: firstly it's 99% water with a drop of dish soap in it and a waste of money. When you add it to super glue as a finish you are adding moisture to wet glue that displaces some of the glue and you'll get an uneven finish 100% of the time. When you apply just a thin layer of CA and let it cure with the moisture in the air it'll cure fast enough (10-20 minutes). I usually do 10 or more layers before sanding with a radius block too, this lets me find any high spots without sanding through the finish in the lower spots. On a particularly humid day I can get 10 layers on in under an hour, sand, polish, restring, and setup all before lunch and not a single squirt of activator needed.
Thanks for the tip. I had no such background knowledge when I did this project, since I am not a professional woodworker or luthier. This in strictly on amateur level. I made this video because I was looking for information online and could not find anything with useful instructions on how exactly to do this. So I decided to give it a shot myself and to publish _my_ results so that others would _find_ something when trying to tackle the same problem. Concerning ingredients, I could not find the original product that I used on this any more, but it did say something about containing acetone, and it did have a distinctly chemical smell to it, too. And as you can see, I stopped _long_ before 10 layers, and in spite of all problems with even application, this bass plays beautifully and the surface is still in pristine condition. I don't think I will ever do this again, but thanks for your input none the less.
This took me back to 1983 and the day I decided to irrevocably turn my 1962 Fender Precision into a fretless bass. It was an impetuous and rash decision. So rash in fact that when the idea popped into my head I jumped out of the shower and ran wrapped in a towel to pull the frets out with a set of pliers. In hindsight, I wish I'd done it on a less valuable instrument first, but it had been well modified by its previous owner in the 1970's already. So it was "Player Grade" anyway. The differences in my application were... 1.) I used ONLY gel superglue. No thin variety. 2.) Disposable foam trim brushes to spread glue. It went on wonderfully even, and I just threw the brush away between coats. The whole pack was I think $5.00. 3.) No accelerant. I was in no hurry. I let each coat dry to hard naturally, and then applied the next coat of gel. 4.) No sanding between coats, so I wasn't sanding through the already very thin layers. I did use a flat sanding block from the outset, as the radius was well defined and the gel coat thin. The result? Well I played it HARD for 20 years solid with roundwounds. Recently I finally wore through the glue layers around the third fret on the E string. I didn't want to mess with it this time, so I took it to a luthier to do. He preferred epoxy this time and it didn't come out quite as nice. Some cloudy spots. He built it up pretty thick, and without realizing it changed the radius from 7.25" to 9" because that was the sanding block he had. He hadn't bothered to check the pre-epoxy radius. I was not happy. Made mental note to buy a 7.25 radius block and do it again myself when I find time. Can't possibly mess it up any worse.
Now _there's_ an intriguing story. Thanks for sharing. This is also the first ever statement I read about the durability of CA coating. Makes me optimistic about playing mine with flatwounds.
@@Noone-of-your-Business Oh, yes, I did it in 1983 and played that bass exclusively with roundwounds at least most nights a week between learning tunes, rehearsals and performances until 2006 when I got a fretted Jazz bass to trade duties with. Still played the fretless though, and that spot didn't wear through to wood until 2019. That's 36 years of roundwounds. The rest of the board was fine, and I probably could have just touched it up, but I chose the full resurface. Really wish now I had just touched it up myself.
About the same year (1983) I saw this Guy on TV playing a Music Man Stingray with added Precision split Pickups on, so i bought some Seymour Duncan's ,and with hammer and chisel installed them , I've now learned that the serial No, of my Bass (still got it) Is in the first year of Manufacture
@@leoneddy1492 YIKES! I've developed personal scientific formula for this phenomenon actually: M+t=R2 That reads aloud as "Mods Plus Time Equals Regret Squared"
try sanding with a radius'd sanding block, it may be the issue you are having as you are adding material thickness and that raises the relative position of the fretted area to the nut.
A proper curved sanding block with a radius matching that of the fretboard would have been a useful addition. You see luthiers using them all the time when refinishing fretboards
Wouldn't a radius block (that matches the radius of the fingerboard) be better than a flat sanding block? Also, shouldn't one be afraid of moisture being trapped in the rosewood under the glue layer and potentially warping the fretboard with time?
I agree. It would. On the other hand, even a flat block is better than your fingers... 😁 as I said, I learnt a lot in this and next time would be more refined. 😉 As for moisture, the mod is now half a year old and the fingerboard has not budged.
Why do I feel like I am in a cyberpunk movie where this is a stoic yet slightly cinical narration of my older self about a crazy biomodification on myself?:DD
Informative. I was thinking of doing this to my fretless but decided it's not worth it. the wear that the fretboard has matches the bumps and bruises a 35 year old bass tends to get. I never fixed the pickup selector switch that broke and I bypassed 25 years ago. I doubt I would go through this effort now.
Nice. Just got a Fender MB-5 that someone along the way had pulled a “Jaco” and I was debating doing a finish - decided against based upon your experience and am going with a good set of Flats instead.
I have a six string version of this bass. I may try the back of the neck sanding, but I think I'd probably rather leave that to a pro. I just got treble side inlay put on to make intonation a little easier. I had an epoxy board before but it just wasn't something I liked that much, so... eh.
CA glue? Seems scary and permanent. I'll stick with tung oil on my fingerboards. Recommend, BTW. I've used it for five years now. Weird that CA glue scoops the mids so much and generally smiley-faces the response curve. Not a fan of those new extra high noises. You know, I think tung oil would take you right direction for enhancing mids, unlike the CA. FWIW, I only play roundwounds on mine. The tung oil impregnates the wood with solids so the windings make tiny scratches but don't dig into the wood. This $12 bottle of real tung oil will last the rest of my life.
I think if my fretless jazz was shiny like Jaco id feel better not playing like him! Pedullas use to have deep shine on boards suppose it helped sales. noticed recent builds the don't bother probably a production issue . Even carl Thompsons flat wood color, foderas same. GOOD JOB regardless, pandemic fun
Song names are in the description and on screen when first playing. The first is a little sample that I threw together with a synth sound I liked, and the second one is from the second album of my first band way back in 2000.
I WAS going to do that -- thanks to you, don't think I'll trust myself with this level of workmanship -- just gonna go ask my local luthier -- good work by the way :)
As a luthier, I thought I'd add my professional opinion to this. 1). Do not do this with a good bass. 2). Adjust the neck dead flat before block sanding it and prepping the board. 3). Dam the sides of the neck with masking tape and aluminum flashing tape, so you can flood the area with THIN CA glue. DO NOT USE ACCELERATOR. 4). Allow the glue to dry for about a week before sanding, and sand till you take the resulting superficial top coat off. Then buff. Remember, you are trying to harden the wood, not cover it up.
Appreciate your honest self analysis evaluation. Some people may have convinced themselves to like the altered. You are a strong person accepting good and not so good. Hey you did a great job it just saved others going down that rabbit hole.
I bet in this day and age, you could make more money going something with your voice on this platform than you could at your day job. (Unless your day job is like a crazy nice one I don't know you ) just a suggestion.
A thing I have learned while working on one of my fretless basses is that guitar necks are not actually straight, so ideally you should use a radius sanding block of the correct radius, not a straight one.
Pretty sure he can do it with a flat one, he just needs to pay more attention and sand the whole width. A radius sand block is still more handy, but not a necessity.
you need both a levelling beam and a radius beam. The correct technique is to get the neck as straight as it will possibly go (with truss rod), and work from there. . You cant ask your radius beam, to ALSO take care of the end to end flatness. How do you know you are using it correctly? if you are favouring your right side, the neck will have a slight twist etc etc . . one job each . Levelling beam for general flattening , followed by radius beam to re establish the radius. both beams MUST be longer than the board PLUS your stroke, otherwise you are sanding a hollow into your neck
@@thebutton7932 darkySp is correct. You don't need all that fancy jazz (!) to level a fingerboard. I used a cheap red rubber sanding block from the hardware store, checked with a straightedge, and that level has lasted five years.
Before sanding with a radiused block to match the radius of the bass neck, release the truss rod to perfectly straight using a straight edge. CA may not adhere well to oily woods.
My dad just eyeballed it mostly without a straight edge and sanded according to the direction of the grain. Doesn't have to be perfectly on the mil. all we used was a 2 part epoxy and sandpaper. the neck wasn't perfected until i broke it in later adjusting the truss rod after playing it for a few weeks breaking some upright bass strings in the process.
You forgot the most important piece of advice...EXPIRIMENT FIRST ON A PLANK OF WOOD,ANY PLANK,THEN WHEN YOU ARE CONFIDENT TRY IT ON YOUR INSTRUMENT....how do I know?...I'm a carpenter,I have years of experience with wood....GOOD LUCK GUYS
I admire your efforts. I've done this a few times and let the glue drying without the activator, you will be better off. The activator creates little dry, uneven and harder to sand pools. Super glue (thin) will dry quickly, just be patient, it will give you a thicker finish if you spread it instead of brushing.. The biggest problem in any project is getting in a hurry. Sand with 400 and keep applying glue to level out the finish. Once you get to a level finish, start working up to 1200 grit, then up to 3000 grit. I used Bondo in a bag and molded it around the neck to get the radius correct. Place the sandpaper under the Bondo curve and it's a perfect match. When you get to a 3000 grit, you're starting to get a shine. I hand rub with compound to keep from grinding in a low spot with a drill. Bottom line, don't get frustrated and have some fun with your work, you now have experience.
Glad to find your vid ! I had the exact same bass here and it doesn’t reach my expectations, Overall it’s a lower cost Indonesia made Ibanez which shouldn’t compare with bass like Fbass AC6, but it really need a mod to be a usable fretless bass. The coating to the rosewood finger broad is one of the must to improve the high notes, but one other important issue are the nut, it’s plastic so I had to make a brass nut myself, it does made note clear, Also put on an other set of flatness strings ( I took high C and no low B) and proved the original string are no good. Last parts changed are the magnetic pickups, a pair of Northstand instead the OEM Barton’s mark I . , overall results are very nicely improved, so the last thing is to follow your CA project which I think will make It complete. Thanks !
This is really cool. I thought it sounded good after the coating. That "nasal" sound you mention, at least to me, sounds funky. Your video production skills are pretty good, and your dry humor is pretty entertaining. You should totally upload again sometime soon!
Your video made my choice of fingerboard for my 36' flat fretless (im a woodworker). I did a total of 13 layers during the day, no activator, sanded up to 2000 grit by hand on top of a 5mm vynil board. I mostly slap that thing, and let me tell you, after a year of use shits holding up great. Has a VERY clicky vibe to it, kinda like it, a bit more subtle than on Korn records.
I would probably have gone one step further than a sanding block and buy some radiused sanding blocks. If the fretboard on your bass has a compound radius, you might need several different sized radius sanding blocks. You might as well get a full set of them if you plan to do repairs and mods on other instruments in the future.
Thankyou! Its so rare to find a "tips" video that is both really honest and so well-analyzed, rather than just sensationalized and backed up with sloppy or even no research. Also your voice is so good you definately should work as a narrator or something!
Thank you for this video. I used this as a guide after converting a fretted bass (Ibanez BTB 747) to fretless. I just filled the fret slots with pau ferro sawdust and CA. Then followed your steps. It turned out great.
Nice work, I appreciate the comparison. Also showing your mistakes/lessons learned was helpful. I'm considering converting my ubass to fretless, and I like the coated fingerboard on my Rickenbacker. I might end up going with epoxy or mylar instead of CA glue.
I've converted my Warwick Corvette to fretless using epoxy, it is a long process :D Took me about 8 days to get it done. Epoxy takes really long to dry, like over a day. I was a bit impatient and the epoxy was sometimes bit sticky which made sandpapering it down really hard. However the result is pretty good, not that I like the passive mics that I have on it, going to try to swap them to some active EMGs. Good luck with your project!
Not necessarily true, I play both. It's about the way you play, finger placement, both hands, how/where you fret the notes, how and what level you attack your strings, manipulation of the notes and tones, learning to use the overtones. It is a completely different animal. There is only a minor difference with coated fretboards. 90 percent is how you play not what you play.
My father and I had applied something like 11 layers of epoxy to the fingerboard of my fretless project bass back in 2002. It was certainly labor intensive - we had bought a radiused sanding block from Stew Mac. More recently, I realized the epoxy coating was causing the extra high mids/treble that I didn't want in my sound (it was sounding far too synthetic, and lacked warmth), so I sanded off (most) of the epoxy. I'm not sure that I removed all of it, but I'll have to wait for next spring or summer (once it warms up enough) AND use the wet sanding paper method you had shown!
With such a casual approach, you can't nail the guy! A serious approach to change the physical properties of (cheap) wood was impregnation of the wood with a suitable "resin" under vaccum and irridating it with Gama rays to harden it, proved successful with its machineability, and other sought physical properties. Perhaps this research was gagged.
Great video, and world class voice and pronunciation thanks for your work! .... you are definitely a speaker for radio or television - if not, then you have a hundred percent job there! are from the German-speaking area, as your components are described in German.
Thanks for this. Really enjoyed your video. I also have the same Ibanez SRF705 and was thinking about doing what you did to improve tone. After watching, I decided to leave the neck treatment and switch the pickups to Bartolini MK2's and the preamp for a Nordstrand. Played with the piezo settings a bit, and now this bass is MWAH like Jaco. My main gigging bass.
Very interesting! I did much the same but with tung oil, and to smooth out some of the string dents. It kind of worked, but not sure if it was worth the effort. Also, with tung oil, don't lay it on thick, remove excess and be prepared to spend a couple of months building it up.
My bought festless is unfinished, I love it. I have converted an LTD to fretless, w/ high gloss enamel coated fretboard tuned DGCF, and a fender acoustic guitar converted to a fretless w/ a high gloss Acrylic coated fretboard, tuned BEADGC. And about to create a frets 1-12 fretted, frets 13-19 fretless 6 string classical guitar, it will remain unfinished. I like both for different reasons. Plus ea. of my instruments is different, each tuned throughout the scale of BEADGCF, so they all blend in succession when overlaid in recording. I'm also working on a custom acoustic guitar converted into a 4 string short scale rubber band bass. Play both kinds before you commit. They both have much to offer but are completely similar at the same time. *overall, note placement, manipulation, and string attack are the key elements of fretless.
@@andrewgocken517 I bought an LTD b-204 fretless and I love the feel and look but I don't get quite the "mawh" sound I'd like.After watching this video it doesn't seem like the work is worth the limited result.I do notice that the most pronounced "mawh" seems to come from higher end basses.
@@kevmac1230 try "finger?" picking right at the bottom of your neck and crank your mids. Make sure your neck is flat, if not adjust it. My fretless cost a $120. Shit you not, my other I made. Set it up or get it set up, nice flexable, round wound strings. I almost put mine down before I did this. Now I love it. The mwahh, fret slightly off and add vibrato. It should help also. Hope it works out. It's a different animal, give it another chance. Good luck
@@kevmac1230 my homemade fretless is a LTD. It is very different. It's more about intonation and learning how to use and intensify the sounds a fretless produces. Try running bass, treble pretty flat 4-5 and your hi and low miss cranked to like 8-9. Play with you controls try bridge only, neck only, somewhere in between. Try using your middle finger close to the neck press hard against the string and pop your finger off of it. And check out Alain Caron. He's amazing.
@@Noone-of-your-Business amazingly well, even with roundwound strings. I'm still on my first application after fifteen or so years. Of course I don't play every day, more like once a week or so with the band or on the odd gig. Done that on three basses so far and had no problems but since the basses were all defretted and then veneered with birch, I didn't really run a comparison to lacquered and unlacquered. But I'm happy with the sound.
You really did great job with this modification! Btw, although there is no improvement in the sound, if the feeling of playing is improved in the left hand, that's also something that should be accounted. If someone play fretless, then slides are frequently done, and it seems to me that this kind of fingerboard should make those slides feel at least a bit better.
I've heard of people using this technique and none of them I chatted with seemed to be in love with the result. I ended up going the Jaco route and using System Three MirrorCoat epoxy on my fretless builds, and have been very happy with those. Of course, I wanted a thicker coating than CA will give you, mainly because (a) I use roundwound strings and actually prefer a bit of high-mid clank most of the time, and (b) it's easier to get a nice, uniform playing surface free of unwanted imperfections. Plus, if/when you DO end up chewing up the finish, you have enough material on the fretboard to easily buff it out. Whichever method you go with, I recommend using a radius block to maintain proper radius while you're level sanding. A simple sanding block does nothing to preserve that. Just my $0.02. As always, your mileage may vary.
There is not a huge difference in tone, but the super glued fingerboard will be significantly more resistant to string wear, especially if you string up with some nice bright round wounds, which will give the bass a very different voice.
Round wound’s are what are on my fretless bass. I have to say that I enjoy the sound far better than if I were using flat wound’s or whatever is most customary for an instrument like it. I enjoy the extra harmonics in both the high and low registers that they offer up.
I've been meaning to do this to one of my spare basses turned fretless and have been experimenting on some scrap wood. 1) You should be using a radiused block and not a flat one.. Soundgear basses all have 12inch radius btw 2) Do not use the activator. Let the glue dry on it's own in a dry atmosphere if possible. Wait at least a couple days before doing the finisb sanding. 3) Depending on the wood, sometimes it's better to use just the thin one, sometimes just the thick an one, sometimes first layer with thin one then thick one.. sometimes first layer with thick one then top with the thin version.
I think it's good! Got a good "Mwahhh". Set to bridge pick up, tone almost all the way down, on the amp, put your lows down, mids up and highs to middle... very Jaco!
The #1 reason for epoxy on a fret board is to prevent grooves from forming on the fretboard. If you purchase one with an ebony fretboard, you don't need the epoxy protection. If you get the proper epoxy, you only have to apply once. Always remove the nut. Adjust the truss rod to make the fretboard absolutely flat before you do anything. When using a block sander, never sand in sections. Sand through one end to the other. That's why you need to remove the nut.
Great video, you have a great voice for narrations. However I think that using a radius block to do the sanding would’ve made a tremendous difference in eliminated the uneven pockets on the fingerboard, which can be the cause of loss of sustain and resonance. I’ve seen several others scribble lines with a pencil down the entire length which helps give a visual of low spots or pockets when sanding. But I very much enjoyed your video sir.
a friend of mine - who is building guitars professionally - told me that the use of ca coatings is merely to prevent the fingerboard from wearout. like a sacrificial layer... there is not so much difference in terms of „hardness“ between common used woods, that it would improve the tone significally. if you want that, you‘d have to go for sheet metal or something like that i guess...
As I said, it does change the tone quite a bit - but not in the range I am looking for in a fretless, so I rolled all of the high freq gain off with the tone control.
I used to use ca glue mixed with wood dust as a filler, I know it's a common practice repairing low-end woodwind instruments like clarinets and oboes. At one point I was using so much ca glue, I dreamt of making a guitar entirely from ca! Anyway - I cringed when I saw this, can't think of anything worse than coating a nice ebony board with nasty chemicals. And sanding block - essential to get one that's radiused for your bass's neck, they're not expensive. Even without the ca treatment, use fine grade paper to highlight wear marks, coarser paper to level the board, then fine paper again to finish. And important tip - support the neck in the middle or you'll wear a curve where you don't want. Edit - forget the polishing compound and lectric drill, I would use t-cut and a soft cloth, little bit of elbow grease doesn't hurt. Thanks for the video, a cautionary tale if ever there was!
And someone else mentioned hear a two-part epoxy would be easier to work with here. A 2 part urethane, would more harden the surface and fill in the pores of the fretboard. Much better then super glue! Automotive or Marine Coating. After I do mine,. Perhaps I'll post it too. Thank you much.
Dont try this randomly, and DO have some knowledge of whats required, UNLIKE this guy . some knowledge of neck setup is needed. You need levelling beams and a radius beam. Thats a must. The reason this did not go as he would have liked , is the tiny hills and hollows in the job, are muting the string from ringing freely, in places. Get it adjusted by someone that knows what theyre doing. You will be pleasantly surprised.
Seems there is a positive aspect you did not talk about : superglue finish improves the durability of the fingerboard surface :-) I am currently building a fretless neck with an ebony fingerboard, and I think I will finish it with superglue for that particular reason only
Easier to mill off the original fretboard by depth of replacement sheet of bowling ball material, available in strips, some company in Tacoma, Washington I saw. should be more resonant and perfectly flat from the factory.
Do NOT USE accelerants with super glue because it will result in it going white as what happened to you. It will dry fine on its own from the moisture in the air. Best to do it outside as it’s very noxious.
I have a cheapo washburn with an ebonol fingerboard much cheaper and no risky diy for the same level of hardness as a coated bass but sounds more similar to wood. I think bare rosewood has a better sound but harder surfaces like ebony, ebanol, epoxy coated maple or rosewood feel better to play fretless, probably why ebony is used for orchestra string instruments fingerboards from violins to double basses and everything in between.
I have done this with thin industrial super glue, no accelerator and finished with a radius block with sand paper attached before buffing. --- i.imgur.com/cgn9Vz9.jpg?1
the reason people coat their fretboards with glue is so they can use roundwounds without it digging into the rose wood. why would you close off the pores and then still use flats like before? the video was educational but I hoped you would've at least used the correct strings.. which is the whole point of the coating. also I hope no one with an ebony fretboard starts doing this.
