Just starting the video so it might be touched on but my favorite aspect of both is that, they're not either reskins of male MC tropes (looking mainly at Revy from Black Lagoon) nor do their characterizations rely heavily on basically doing the opposite of male character tropes/sterertypes. They're written from an authentic place where the fact that they're female shines through even though, especialyl for Freiren, it's in subtle ways. Like you could have a male elf and everything would work. You'd be missing something I can't name, and tha'ts fine. Freiren feels like a well-written character that just happens to be female but it's not like she screams "male character with a female skin". Mao Mao is slightly less subtle but still nuanced just the same. She can't be male because of the story/world she's placed in but and it still relies on subtlety regarding her indifference to gender norms. She's not preachy even though she could justifiably be, but she has an interest and that interest/skillset dominates her character. I'm rambling but they're just so freaking dope and well-written and even though I love characters like Kaguya from Love is War who i also find to be well-written, I'm glad there's beginning to be as much breadth in the type of female character written. An aloof character isn't unique in itself, but Freiren handles it masterfully. An obsessive nerd isn't unique in itself but Apothecary Diaries (favorite show from the past 5 years) handles her character gloriously
I totally agree with you! After I watched Frieren, and saw her reviewed as the "female protagonist," I blanked out for a moment. As a female myself, it amazed me how well Frieren was protrayed to not make viewers hyperfixated on the character's gender. Like Inakyu said, she is a baby and a granny (sorry Frieren, you are an onee-san), adorable and badass, with character developements required in a shounen and that is all that matters. On the other hand, Maomao is a female protagonist where being a woman determines how she acts in the brothel, inner palace, outer palace and anywhere else she goes. There is a significance in following this story through Maomao, a girl, so the femininity portrayed in this series isn't superficial . (I have originally been following it through the novels, so a little bit of a SPOILER ALERT. For example, Luomen trained Maomao as an apothecary not a doctor, even when she had the motivation and potentials to be one and acts like one in many occasions because women can't be doctors in their country of Li). The world building is deep. Maomao feels real and relatable because she is living as a woman in the story. Sorry @MegaShinobi2011 on practically repeating what you said.
I agree with most of what youre saying, but i dont think characters like Revy are Black Lagoon are 'male characters in female skin '. Some women have more traditionally masculine traits, and are into action, violence etc. Representing that isnt bad female characterization.
Revy would not be who and what she is, if she wasn't a woman. She would be an entirely different character if you genderswapped her, and the entire plot of Black Lagoon would have to change to accommodate that one singular change. She is leagues apart and above the reskinned male character archetype.
Maomao is something that most anime protagonists are not: Cunning. She's always lying to people, but without negative intentions, and the moment I realized that she was also lying to the viewer by withholding very important information was the moment I fell in love with the show. Too bad the mangaka doesn't have the same talent in lying to the taxman.
@@nyxsantos04 mangaka literally just means person making manga. Nekokurage is the mangaka of the square enix apothecary diaries manga. It‘s not uncommon for the artist to also be the author (though in this case the authorship is largely with natsu hyuuga, the author of the ln), but even if that’s not the case, that doesn‘t mean the artist isn‘t a mangaka. I wasn‘t trying to be condescending, I just thought it was funny how you said „the artist not the mangaka“ when these two words basically mean the same thing
I have to strongly disagree with your take regarding Frieren and fake-Himmel in the forest as well as the statement that Frieren "lacks any understanding of human connection and just wipes Himmel out of the forest without hesitation." It runs counter to the entire point of the scene. In both the manga and animation, the scene is explicitly meant to depict the depth of her connection to Himmel. In both, the hallucination of him tells her to shoot him. She remarks that this is precisely what the real Himmel would say, before she does just that. It's not that there's no hesitation or emotion. It's CERTAINLY not that she lacks understanding of human connection. It's the opposite. The monster takes your own memories and feelings and projects them as a vision. She connected to Himmel so well, and has internalized his values to the point that even an illusion of him retains its commitment to justice and goodness. It encourages her to destroy it, despite this...well, destroying it. The depth and far-reaching consequences of her relationship to Himmel are depicted multiple times in the series (the entirety of her fight with Aura being a huge example of just how much she has taken Himmel's values to heart.) She's surprised that the vision was of Himmel because it means she's changed. She doesn't seem to realize just how successful her efforts to understand humans have been, though it's quite clear to us as the audience. Frieren's commitment to making human connections is a signification part of the point of the series. All of her fun quirks are almost exclusively built around the notion of her caring about human connection. Not just, for example, the fact that she collects quirky spells because of Himmel but also WHICH spells she chooses to gather (Sour grapes for Eisen, or the faux memoirs of her mentor). Her selection of the butterfly hairclip for Fern (butterflies are a recurring motif in young Fern's magic). Stark's birthday dinners, how she handled Flamme's will - all of them illustrate how deep her emotional relationships run.
Proof of Frieren's development is when Frieren is so afraid of Fern's silent treatment because she woke up late in 1st class mage arc that he was begging Stark for help. From taking human interaction for granted to actually faraid those interactions.
I absolutely love your argument, unfortunately I must point out a flaw I have noticed. It is rather minor, though. You note how Frieren remarks that the illusion said exactly what Himmel would say, however even in the anime I always found this silly because of another point you brought up. It is explicitly stated that "the monster takes your own memories ... and projects them." Of course she *thinks* that's what he would say, the monster is using her perception of him, so it's difficult to say objectively. ....At least it would be from this scene alone, fortunately the series has many flashbacks which provide quite compelling evidence for her view of Himmel, such as the time Himmel trusted a demon until he saw their emotionlessness for himself. I also much appreciate your providing the example of the fight with Aura as an additional example to supplement your point. Your point on her surprise is excellent. No notes. I always knew there was more meaning to that scene underneath the surface but I could never quite scratch it. But I think you've put it perfectly and succinctly.
One of the things I love about MaoMao is that social status is taken very seriously in her series, it's neither a glossed over bit of colour nor is it made out to be a monolithic force. People don't simply exist in their statuses passively, they negotiate restrictions, find ways to work within or around limits, and the like. A huge part of the genius in MaoMao's writing is how much the series shows that she's aware of and constrained by her status... but also how she works the system, in ways that are consistently entirely reasonable for somebody of her status and level of ability. I like the mystery aspects of the show, but the depth of characterisation that comes from her knowing precisely where she is in the social order, and what can happen to her if she crosses a line, and then actually working within it's structures to give herself as much freedom and happiness as she can get... and then those rare moments when she's strongly enough motivated to risk crossing that line
When I read "cute girls but well written" I think "A Place Further than the Universe". Yes, technically it is "cute girls go to Antarctica", but it is so well written. They are so well written.
Fun fact, the light novel source material fror Apothecary Diaries was meant for the female demographic. The manga is seinen because of the manga publisher. And the anime seems to be a mix of the two and have cross demographics
If I didn't know better, I would've mistaken it to be josei. The subject matters they deal with are too dark to be shoujo (even if the anime art style seems to be that), and there's much which a young woman might be able to relate/understand better. I'm still glad that it being marketed/published as seinen would help expand young male's understanding of a woman's world and their vulnerabilities.
@marti9734 I agree in theory. But in practice, if there were not separate demos, then what is basically shonen/seinen will always get made, because it makes more money. Women will watch Shonen, but men don't watch shoujosei as much. Left to its own devices, I think most anime would only cater to men. So that's why I think carving out a space for shoujosei is important.
As a German I can tell you, in Frieren all the Names are very fitting to the characters. Frieren=freezing Fern=far away Stark=strong Himmel=Sky All of them describes the character very good
What I love so much about apothecary diaries is seeing Chinese rep hit the main stream , often times in anime only modern China is repped maybe the occasional Qipao. But I’m just so happy to see the apothecary diaries not only in a all Chinese setting but also representing Hanfu so beautifully 🥹
If you are interested in worldbuilding inspired by Chinese culture in anime, I strongly recommend Colourcloud Palace (The Story of Saiunkoku). It's old, and the animation is not as beautiful as AD, but has similar vibe and the story is good.
Stems from real life racial tension between the Chinese and Japanese. A story heavily featuring Chinese characters is far less likely to avoid getting canned by the publisher.
I think the crazy part for me is that I grew up with Chinese Period Dramas. My favorite ones were always the ones where the protagonist has to win the day through clever schemes and understanding of people, as well as what science was available to the scholars of the time. The Apothecary Diaries were like a Chinese Period Drama transplanted directly into anime and I just felt so connected to it. Palace Intrigue is just what I grew up on and I love it dearly. Most protagonists of those period dramas are usually disadvantaged in some way, typically in the fact that they're commoner servants who require a powerful patron to back them. Maomao is double disadvantaged in this society because she's both a commoner and a woman. She's not even up to that society's standard of beauty either (even though she's plenty beautiful to us as the audience even when she's not dolled up, freckles and all). And yet, she's possessed of the quality that makes these protagonists so endearing to us: a good heart. That's why all the scheming and lying and deception doesn't hurt us as the audience. She's doing it while trying to avoid hurting anyone (at least anyone who doesn't deserve it) and she's doing it having thought things through. Most of her actions are deliberate and careful because she knows full well the consequences. It's also fascinating from a storytelling perspective because she's clearly a powerless pawn in this society but her intelligence and knowledge definitely gives her a soft power and influence. ....Aaanyway. I love this story. It just fits my tastes to a T.
literally started crying during the maomao section omg the way her curiosity pushes through her fear and circumstances is one of the most inspiring things i've ever absorbed through media i adore her and the entire show so so so so so much im so excited for another season
Around 7:55 - I agree, female characters don't have to shed their femininity for character development or something. Not that it's bad, they just don't have to; that should not be the only way to do so. Around 17:05 - Yeah, people need to get over the fact that just because it's demographics says it's for group x of people, doesn't mean it's only for group x people. It is indeed refreshing to have female leads for a change. And that's coming from someone who is looking mostly for a good time, and often dismisses fictional characters as being... well, fictional.
The funny part is based purely off people I've talked to and personal experience, most of the people saying x is only for x group are young adults (18+) that still watch mainly Shounen, which by their logic doesn't make sense, but again I'm sure that's not everyone that makes that point
No it's valid, you have to admit the truth, simple. Whether you watch or not is your choice after knowing the reality. It's like you don't go to ice cream shop asking for tacos.
Fall season 2023, when both these shows aired, might have been the Best Anime Season ever. Frieren Fridays followed by MaoMao Saturdays was fuckin' magic.
frieren's best writing point was the part when she was asked what was her favourite spell. Spoilers Below: She replied it was creating a field of regular flowers. Yes this Demon Lord slaying elite elf with so much collected spells of grandiur and destruction, with so many years of experience, felt home to this dainty, disney princess-like spell. Her test taker was disappointed in such lowly answer since its a silly beginner spell, but frieren felt no shame. It hit home to me because its like when middle school teachers tell kids to draw or write essay on what they wanna be in the future, and it always ended as an power-scaling fest on who can come up with a grander idea. I wrote programmer bc I wanted to join a game company whose games inspired me to work harder irl. Teacher said it was cutely inspiring but since i was a top grader and supposed role model for junior classes, i should "dream bigger". The notion that one must think grand to start their journey on is not really effective. For some, setting small milestones or having simple inspirations without getting looked down on are enough to bring the best out of themselves.
That's not the only reason it was good writing. It was also her mentor's favorite, and one she learned from her, as well as being indirectly responsible for the party of heroes specifically seeking her out, and as a result, saving the world from the demon lord. It's not the spell that's important, it's the connections to others that it represents for Frieren. That's what fundamentally separates her from Serie. Frieren has learned to value other people and her connections with them.
@@itsaUSBline . . . It goes deeper than that. Serie and Frieren are different in their preferences and action. Serie fundamentally dislikes Frieren outwardly. She even dislikes Flamme a great deal. Frieren clearly dislikes Serie. And yet, Serie's room is literally a garden of flowers. She re-entered the mortal world and reintegrated herself with mortal magical society. She didn't have to do any of that. She could have stayed a recluse just like Frieren did for 500 years. What does it matter to an immortal elf? The fundamental difference between Frieren and Serie is that Serie didn't have a Himmel or a 10-year adventure to save the world. And yet, Serie is actually trying to reach out for connection. She's clumsy in that aspect because her only point of reference is Flamme. They fundamentally dislike each other because they're so similar to each other, the only difference between them are slightly different choices they've made and the slightly different connections they have. We see in some later chapters some light hints that Serie really could have had her own Himmel if she only would let them into her heart. Serie has some arbitrary high requirements in a person as well as some issues with an over-inflated ego. Even Himmel had a hard time getting through to Frieren, who didn't have an ego problem. Even then, Serie clearly has some meaningful connections, even if she continually keeps them at arm's length. What's clear to me is that Serie loved Flamme a lot. To the point that Serie's room is a garden of flowers, even if she herself doesn't really care for flowers. Flamme's mortal death clearly hurt her a lot. She's come out of seclusion to look for another one who could be like Flamme "but better". But she's clumsy in that regard and lacks sufficient humility to realize that she's already surrounded by meaningful connections. It's also possible that Serie is afraid of feeling that grief of loss again, which is why her standards are so high. Of course, all of this is just extrapolated from the little bits of dialogue and visuals I can see. I have no qualms at being wrong but it all seems to track to me and it's fun to be able to just extrapolate these depths from a well written (and well drawn) story.
The field of flowers is more important than one might think. If Frieren hadn't impressed child-Himmel with the spell, he wouldn't have sought her out to go kill the Demon Lord. Serie is dismissive of the spell when talking to frieren but has filled the room they're talking in with flowers using that self-same spell.
Wow…. Being a programmer sounds tough especially with all the competition for cs jobs now. Anyway I really like all the deep dives into frieren and serie!
I love apothecary diary so much, dispite the fact tons of people talk about it already i feel like its underated. Ive watched a couple episodes of frienen so i need to get cuaght up.
If you like Apothecary Diary you'll love Frieren. I love both Apothecary Diary and Frieren. And if I'm being honest Frieren is one of my all time favorite fantasies. It's such breath of fresh air.
Frieren despised the use of Himmel from her memory that she used that much mana blasting it away. Clearly she valued her connection to Himmel, and would not let anyone get away with tainting her memory of him (another time was when old man questioned her memory of Himmel, or her cold shift in tone with Wirbel...) Most people noticed that it was a huge blast but dont give it a second thought, at least until they watch it a second time
loved that scene, been awhile since i've gone back and watched it but think first thing Himmel said to her was kill me or something like that, thought it was sweet becasue she was a little confused that it was him instead of it being her master Flamme again, shows how much she's grown, other one was the flower episode when she went on a quest to find that particular flower becasue it was Himmel's favorite and he promised to show it to her
to me it's not that she despised the monster for imitating himmel and that's the reason for the large blast but more so to take out the monster like what himmel would want
FMA had been my favorite anime since I was a kid. I loved the writing and felt such a great sense of nostalgia, but Frieren has finally dethroned it. After watching it almost 4 times now it’s clear that Frieren’s writing is just on a different level. Every line of dialogue and every scenic shot matters. There is constant foreshadowing mostly within the scenes where nothing is said. In Frieren, less has certainly been more. I’ve also paid very close attention to the music (since I normally don’t in just about any other anime) and it’s crazy how much the music reflects certain character’s feelings. There was a scene in episode 5 (I think?) where Frieren and Fern are speaking with Eizen. As the scene is playing out and Eizen is speaking of his disciple and memories of the hero’s party, the music changes. 2 instruments are played when Eizen speaks about Stark, which I think is meant to be for Frieren and Fern (as they are currently on a journey) and 4 instruments are played during the flashback shots of the hero’s party (when the hero’s party was on its journey). Having 1 instrument per person has been a MAJOR theme in Frieren. Honestly I’ve noticed it so much that I’m likely going to watch through it again and try to determine whether the instruments are meant to be specific characters or if they are meant to convey specific emotions that the character is feeling during the scene. Over all phenomenal anime.
These two are such a breath of fresh air it gives me hope that we'll see more anime soon where girls and women are fully fleshed out and compelling characters that aren't there to be sexualized.
I watched both and absolutely love them! Quickly became two of my absolute favorite anime of all time, especially for the amazing female protagonists! Video suggestion: Himmel being the greenest flag ever!
both of them were super sweet without getting super Shojo, both of them had romances in them Frieren/Himmel, Fern/ Stark, mamou/ jinshi, but the romance was not the main focus of the story and it developed naturally and less notice me Senpai.
Hey! We have the same first name! Also I completly agree. Its the first time I really liked an anime with a main character who ACTUALLY is a character that goes through growth and has depth.
@@howlingbreeze7078 Reminder that shojo is a demographic not a genre, there are lots of shojos without any romance or with romance not being the main plot
Frieren became one of my top 3 anime within such a short amount of time. I’m really looking forward to the 2nd season, the content is going to be really juicy!
Apothecary Diaries was a series, that I did not really expect to like. The PV of the anime just looked good, but I wasn't conviced, because there was a lack of interessting things the story might have to tell. But I gave it a shot, liked the main character and said it was alright, until the "slap episode" dropped and I realized for the first time how much invested I actually was in the story and characters. Something that also came to mind when watching you talk about Frieren and Maomao was something The Closer Look mentioned once: What makes a great main character. He had this idea of a triangular "power scale" of capabilities a character can have, and which of those are their strong suit: Competence, Activity and Charisma. A character should never have all of those to a large extend, because they'd turn out to be some kind of mary sue character where everything revolves around them. To be fair, story mostly revolve around the main character, but I think you get the gist of what I mean by that... Anyway, funnily enough I think that Maomao and Frieren actually are the same "kind of character" in this regard, because both of them are highly competent, mildly active and not really charismatic. This is great, because we can most definitly see where the character is lacking and needs external characters to motivate them or get them in the right spot in the story. For example is Jingshi the driving factor that is forcing Maomao to action and easily connects her to other people, because he is very charismatic and knows a lot of people. The flow is very natural in my opinion and we can really feel Maomaos desire to not be involved, even though the series would be deadbeat boring if she really did keep her low profile. But this is also something she kind of fails at, because her thirst for knowledge does give her some form of activity, which in turn is enough to get the ball rolling for the story. Frieren is very similar, where her activity drive might seem lower than Maomaos, but she is determined to reach a certain destination and she is also very responsive to happenstances, like for example when they reach the city where Lügner and his companions reside at that moment. Fern is here the great character due to her time limitation, which automatically pushes Frieren forward to move along. What I wanted to say is that I really like how those series put the female character in competent roles, that pave the way of the series. Female characters are often more likely to fill in some kind of passive role, where they are often the supporting character that pushes the male lead forward. To switch things up doesn't really change much about the series as a whole - the dynamics are only changed up a little bit, but a lot of people pay attention to this, because a female lead of that kind is rare. The leads also do not feel like they are just "male protagonists in female skin", but both of them radiate their own kind of femininity along the way. I like both series and I like the characters. Oh and in regards to fanservice in Frieren. Before Übel made her appearence the artists really went all out on Fern. Fern. Have you seen her outfits? In other series she would be the most likely candidate to be ignored for such artistery, but people want to create artworks of the series, they want to feature Fern and they really love the series. This also kind of shows how much of an impact this series and characters has. Great stuff.
and the artwork was beyond beautiful in both but if i was to choose it would be Apothecary Diaries, just the background scenes of flowers and just random things was not something that was supposed to be that good and Frieren's battle scenes OMFG straight out of a Shonen
@@inesatt1313 Characters that you have listed are from a shounen (for young male) series, that's the reason. To get more well written female (or characters in general), read/watch more seinen (for adult male) or josei (for adult female). Yes, Frieren and Apotechary are seinen.
I have seen Frieren and IMMEDIATELY went on and watched The apothecary diaries because I LOVED Frieren and I saw the two shows associated together. And I absolutely loved both shows and cannot wait for the second season 😭👌💕
By the way, 'The Apothecary Diaries' as a story *is* Shoujo. It may officially have the genre of 'Seinen' as a manga, because it was published in a Seinen magazine - genre and demographic in the Japanese Manga publishing industry are dependant on each other - but the Light Novel that the Manga is an adaptation of for example is Shoujo. And that is evident in that the story in its essence as a genre is very clearly Shoujo/Joesi, therefore, in my opinion, the Anime is also Shoujo. The protagonist, the visuals, the story, the way the male love interest is written - yes Maomao technically doesn't like him that way, but it still counts - the attention and care to the female characters' personality and women's struggles in general, even the opening, are all very clearly reminiscent and typical of Shoujo/Josei Anime. I do think that it does try to appeal a bit to a male audience, as evidenced by some fan service by the concubines and the courtesans, but that is just because it's a marketing strategy. So similarly to, for example, how 'Jujutsu Kaisen' tries to appeal a bit to a female demographic as well, so as to have as big of an audience as they can, 'The Apothecary Diaries' also does the same thing. Yet, 'Jujutsu Kaisen' as a story is still considered Shounen and on one brings that into question, because it is very clearly Shounen. I think the reason for this is because we live in a patriarchal society, in which stories written by and/or for women, especially young women and girls, are often undervalued and seen as inferior, which strongly deters not only a male audience, but even the general public. This may indeed be why the manga was released in a Seinen magazine instead and why there is much more resistance to it being considered Shoujo, as many people, i.e. mostly men, do not like the notion of liking anything that is 'girly', because it emasculates them. Because of this I personally would rather it not be referred to as Seinen, as it in a way takes away something that is supposed to be for girls and women, if that makes any sense, as if the general public can't like anything that is written for girls, because it's uncultured and inferior.
@@Taiga-16 quick rundown: Shonen=young boy Shoujo=young girl Seinen=adult men Josie=adult women Whenever people use these terms in relation to anime,manga,etc. it is to describe who the target demographic is
@@abdellnunez1403 Yeah, but there are certain tropes, general story lines and stylistic criteria that we do associate with those genres and I just don't think this story really matches its supposed genre at all. After all, Shounen and Shoujo aren't just referred to as 'the target demographic', but also are their own genre. I don't know, it's a bit confusing.
Seinen, shoujo and so on are not genres, they just show towards what demographic the show is targeted at. I totally see the shoujo and it has many it‘s tropes and I thought of this show as a mystery and slow-burn-romance anime and was surprised to see that romance is not a listed genre (most times) when you can easily spot the shoujo romance tropes. And overall it’s probably less shoujo but more Josei considering the maturity.
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE FRIEREN. IN MY TOP 5 ANIME AND IT IS JUST THE BEST ONE I HAVE WATCHED IN A WHILE. IT WAS AMAZING FROM THE START TO THE END. IT MADE ME SHED TEARS MANY TIMES. IT FELT REAL. THE CHARACTERS FELT REAL. IT FELT LIKE I WAS LISTENING TO ALL OF THEM. IT FELT LIME I WAS A PART OF THEIR LIFE AND THAT THEY WERE A PART OF MY LIFE. AMAZING ANIME. 10/10
the Himmel ghost/monster scene does just as much to characterize Himmel as it does Frieren. The "ghost of Himmel" simply says "do it." Frieren cannot imagine Himmel lying to her or telling her to do anything that isn't the right thing. Her image of Himmel cannot save the monster, because there is no conceivable way Freiren's Himmel would be against dying to kill a single monster.
These were two of my top shows of the last SEVERAL years. It's really nice to see shows with really awesome female characters that are cool and awesome while also still being cute and femenine at the same time. It's almost as if they were written to be real fully fleshed out characters and not just to fill the female character quota as an afterthought. I'm really excited to see a video from you on Coco when Witch Hat drops.
Apothecary Diaries is a light novel series. It got itself a manga adaptation, but the source material are the light novels. The demographic should be determined by the original source material. And the visual and story-oriented "language" (think "movie language") it uses is that of josei manga. The romantic aggressor is the man (for seinen/shonen romance, the aggressor is nearly always the woman. For shojo/josei, the romantic aggressor is nearly always the man). Also the main female character is ostensibly ordinary looking while the main male character is gorgeous. While there are shojo authors, like Yumi Tamura, who present complex characters in shojo series, generally the more complex characters, like Maomao, are found in josei manga. That isn't to say that guys can't like Apothecary Diaries. I'm a straight guy, and I love the series. Any guy who lets the original demographic stand in the way is missing out on half the great manga in the world. Frieren, on the other hand, is straight-up shonen. It's published in Shonen Sunday, and you can't get any more shonen than that without switching publishers. I also fully agree that most shonen action series tend to struggle with female characters (or I should say, they don't bother struggling enough to make good female characters). Since you like Apothecary Diaries, could I suggest you try Villainess Level 99. Although it's in the isekai genre in the Villainess subgenre, like Maomao, Yumiella is quirky and introspective, although her passions and quirks are completely different from Maomao's. She goes into the typical "academy" anime with a fun and consistent internal monologue. (If you try it, know that the first half of episode 1 does NOT represent the rest of the series. The series actually begins after the mid-point commercial break of episode 1. Also know that it didn't get Frieren's or Maomao's budget. The CGI sucks, and the 2D animation, while okay, won't blow your socks off. It's the writing and voice acting that's the hook.)
Great video! Just wanted to point out 1 thing: 11:30 -> You said Frieren wipes Himmel without hesitation, when this isn't true. Frieren gets told by Himmel to shoot. Because the Himmel she knows is so sincere and reliable that he would never, not even in a hallucination, try to deceive her.
Honestly going just by the name and artstyle, i thought apothecary diaries would be some shoujo romance or something, but you've sold it so well that im gonna go watch it as soon as i can
Highly recommend it btw, really fun in many aspects. Maomao really is the goat. But i was right, Jinshi really *really* wants to be a shoujo love interest lmao Big ascendant of a bookworm vibes too, but more realistic (and poisonous)
i love apothecary diaries 😍 i would love for you to talk more about how it’s a seinen manga! i definitely assumed it was shojou, and i feel like im probably not the only one! loved this video 😍
The original source is a web novel/light novel written by a female author targeted at women. All this shojo/seinen etc is decided by what magazine publishes the manga. The manga adaptation got published through a seinen magazine, therefore the label "seinen". I think it would have been better if it was officially published as a shojo/josei also for the manga because people think the story is targeted at men with the seinen label when that is not the case. The story is targeted at women but that does not mean that anyone else can not enjoy it
One cool way Frieren has subverted shonen tropes - which has the tired tendency of "going all out" and always going up power levels - she and Fern both suppress their mana and use the spells needed to get the job done. They're clever about it, their life isn't driven by defeating others and one-upping, but using practicality. I love that!
Has anyone here watched "Talentless Nana"? Can highly recommend, has a female lead who def kicks ass while being very girly. Also internal ethical struggle. Actually now that i think i've been almost exclusively watching female lead animes with well written protags.
Personally, I love Apothecary Diaries much more than Frieren but that's just because I think one is more fun to watch and is just much more enjoyable. I have no idea what happens inside a female mind or how males and females are mentally different but I love Maomao. I love Maomao and although her poison fetish is a big part of that, this video made me more aware of other things I love about her. I love the way Maomao mentally tortures Jinshi by saying things that are designed to be incorrectly interpreted by him. Such as with the situation over the hairpins. Or when she wanted the cow thing but made it look and sound like she wanted to kiss Jinshi. I love the way Maomao talks to that one dude when she is studying his body to determine wether or not he's a good match for the other lady, I think her name is Pairin. And yes, of course I love how she slapped the face powder fool and force-feeds her a good taste of reality. So thanks, Inakyu for making this video. It also made me realize Freiren might be a little better than I thought. Honestly I thought Freiren sucked with nothing good but I might have been wrong because your explanation of how her personality and such was effected by her life and elf-biology has me thinking.
I think what makes a good character male or female is the nuisances, its not the big over the top things that make a good character its the subtle things. the other thing i think is when they try to "girl boss" too much and ignore the femininity of a character, and just write the character as a guy and go and make her a girl, that or give no explanation as to why the character is like this or show how they evolved into that type of person, my favorite two examples would be Ellen Ripley from Alien's series and Sarah Conner from Terminator, neither one started out badass but evolved into that
@@howlingbreeze7078 . Okay but what would actually be a feminine personality trait or psychological characteristic? If I make a fictional female character, I would want her to actually have a female mind, whatever that actually means. What actually makes a character mentally feminine rather than masculine?
@@BoomdroopInfernal-ChiI agree Gender is actually a fluid concept and a female and male can have both feminine and masculine traits or maybe neutral. Most animes tend to forget that. Even though they beautifully represent male characters, females are often there to be an eye candy(fan service) or are one-dimensional (too strong almost like a bulky man or too feminine and flashing iykyk) or as a side character to be sacrificed for male character growth. But these two animes make women human, flawed yet exceptional and they have no other intention other than creating characters of a beautiful story. Such representation matters because it indirectly affects us humans about how we see women around us.
Apothecary Diary is one of those rare feminist story. It is encouraging for women and critizing patriarchy without condemn it and lecturing the audience. It went with that "it is what it is" approach so, rather than complaining about it, adapt to it for the sake of your own survival and happiness. That's why it's relatable to not only female audience because we have all been in those women positions at some point in over life. Life is cruel and most of the time you can't change the situation you are born in so, git gud.
An underrated aspect of Apothecary Diaries for me is Jinshi. Having read ahead in the manga I can definatively say you girlies are IN FOR IT in season 2.
I loved Frieren cause she shkwed it bs when tbeg make children love intrest an fan service cause "she actually adult just short" cause she is short, but she is drawn with proper proportions and adult voice an mannerisms. Frieren is a short adult (to everyone, not elf) and we know it from jump. When flashbacks to her as a kid, that's when she is drawn with childish proportions. And Apothecary Diaries shows you can have scene FL with her looking drop dead gorgeous BUT not the fanservice shots. And her big sister are more than their bodies they all have talents and humanized as her little family.
frierens one of my new favorite shows connected with her as a character super strongly, never seen another show with an aroace character and it meant a lot to me
I've only watched videos on Apothecary Diaries made by guys because thats what was in my recommended videos, and it's great that the series is recognized and loved by everyone, but I also appreciate and enjoy a woman's perspective and commentary on it and would love more of it!
Man... You are so young. Have you ever heard of the show Slayers and a redhead girl named Lina Inverse? Good shounen anime with female protagonist are not new. They were forgotten.
I have read The Apothecary Diaries a bajillion times since I first found it in 2018. I love Maomao so much. She’s the type of person I wish I could be. Genuinely my favorite manga.
@@LamperougeCCboth are the source, actually. The art style of the anime is way closer to the manga than the light novel, but the story follows both the light novel and the manga (since that also follows the ln), tho season 2 might pass the nekokurage manga depending on its length. There‘s a second manga too, but it isn‘t licensed in English
Well, many popular anime (which coincidentally shonen) don't write good female characters either. Even this video talks about it in the beginning. Go to popular anime communites, half of them are whining about how their prominent female character is either annoying or one dimensional.
Some bits on both stories too that stood out to me is they focus on elements of the characters being women wihtout discarding or calling them bad. To me Frieren's relationship with Fern, and to an extent the flashback bits of Serie and Flamme, had a big mother-daughter vibe. And it's kind of weird to think how few anime have protagonists who have a mother role, when I can dig up quite a few that have fathers as the main character. Apothacary Diaries I think stood out a lot for often highlighting how kind of rough it is for a woman in her environment, and pointing out things at times that she has to be constantly on guard for that the men around her just don't even consider. Again, kind of just an intersting story in showing perspectives and plot elements that I think often get overlooked in historical or fantasy anime. And your summary of Maomao is pretty good. Sh'es more just kind of a weirdo than a kuudere, and I like how she's also not omni-competent, but having holes in how she acts that create fun problems later. So yeah, good shows for sure. Favorite in a while. Would watch more your takes on them :D
If you like these two I'd also recommend the "Ascendance of a Bookworm" anime and light novels (fully published official english translation). It has a driven female protagonist obsessed with their goal of reading books, and definitely gives off quirky character vibes. It also has a unique fantasy world.
Maomao is a true girls’s girl and I love that! I feel like she could’ve easily been written like a “not like other girls” and look down on the other serving girls, but she doesn’t!
Another thing that makes me like Maomao character is because of Jinshi, the male lead. Him and Maomao has a great chemistry throughout the story. Even though Jinshi has reputation in the palace, he treat Maomao like a human and found interest in her, while Maomao know her place and have to stay in act to prevent conflict.
I don't think many men choose to not watch a show based on the gender of the protagonist. Hell, I got so into Bocchi the Rock that everything else pales in comparison.
But many men still hesitant or avoid consuming female oriented demographic compared to how there's many women that willing to consume male oriented demographic I mean look at jjk or mha fangirls. Yuru Camp or Bocchi The Rock are appealing despite the female cast cuz the target audience is male, so it's easier for straight men to enjoy them.
@@yunfeikwon I'm curious, what makes Bocchi the Rock specifically targeted at a male demographic? There's zero fan service, zero action... why do you say it's targeted at men?
@@ReklawLah because Bocchi The Rock published in seinen manga magazine, you can googled it yourself. And this must be my personal take so it's not entirely represent female oriented demographic, but Bocchi lacked female fanservice and doesn't have shoujo ai or GL tagged as genre. And as I already watch/read many shoujo/josei mangas, Bocchi doesn't have the aesthetic or characteristics that shoujo/josei specialized in. If you think large to all female cast or female protagonist equal guaranteed from female oriented demographic... I'm sorry but I must inform you that you have been wrong. There's many shoujo/josei demographic or I will say joseimuke in Japanese have many male protagonist or large male cast to even all male cast. Banana Fish, Gakuen Babysitter, Natsume and The Book of Friend, Baby and Me, etc etc. are prime example of it. Even dating sim for women like otome game or idol raising game like Idolish7 is existed and marketed for female audience, right? That's why the reverse also applies to male targeted entertainment like shonen, seinen or danseimuke (media marketed to male). Bocchi, Yuru Camp, Umaru-chan all fall into danseimuke category or specifically seinen manga despite having female protagonist.
Plus demographic doesn't equal genre. As not all seinen/shonen are action and adventure, it's mean that there's shoujo/josei that has action, adventure. Just fyi shoujo manga even is the one that introduced or invented isekai concept in manga community back then in early 90s. It's TMI ik but Berserk is heavily inspired by all time popular and influential shoujo manga, Roses of Versailles too. Lacking male fanservice but still able to hook people while having broader range of targeted audience are indeed the strength of seinen demographic. However it also could mean that seinen wouldn't or can't ever replace female targeted media or joseimuke in Japanese.
@@ReklawLah K-On, Bocchi the Rock, and Yuru Camp are "cute girls doing cute things" animes, and this type of genre has been popular with both men and women for a long time. Frieren is fantasy/shounen/action anime with a female protagonists, which is very rare. Most shows that have female protagonists are either shoujo or slice of life. It's very rare to have female protagonist in an action/shounen anime (the same genre as One Piece, Bleach, Naruto, MHA, JJK,etc.), so Frieren is extra special. The Apothecary Diaries is also a shoujo/seinen, but it somehow becomes so popular (as a novel, manga, and then anime) that it also attracts male audience. But this show is definitely not an action/shounen genre, so it having a female protagonist is not as a big deal as Frieren.
Just found this video thanks to the algorithm god and I had a blast. You being a casual vibe to just talking anime and your chosen topic and I loved it. Subscribed
Great video, but Lucy and Erza are very different from the usual crop of female characters. It's unfair to lump them with the others at all. Erza is a badass without sacrificing her femininity, but she's also batshit insane and chaotically bisexual, very different from typical shounen heroines who usually stop being a badass halfway through. As for Lucy, she's a very relatable character to a lotta female FT fans for a reason. She's got a fantastic character arc and her growth as a person outpaces the male characters by a large gap.
The fanservices and 'childish' tropes doesn't give them enough room to showcase it. They attract specific audience and the audience don't care that deeply about character's personalities. In the end the good personalities they represent won't be the topics that came up when talking about the show.
i watched this immediately before hanging out with my friend who happens to ADORE poisons and Chinese history, I recommended we watch apothecary diaries and we both instantly become obsessed, thank you so much for this gift of a show recommendation
I think anime writers - NOT ALL - should teach Hollywood how to create adorable AND powerful female characters. Even girls can't stand anymore with the "strong female characters" Disney and Marvel are offering them. If I need to inspire little boys and girls on how a courageous girl behaves, I will show them EVERY f*cking Ghibli movie before something like The Acolyte, for example.
Wow, the way you were describing the Apothecary Dairies, I 100% thought it was a josei! I'd be interested in seeing you review Kill La Kill, Claymore, and the Slayers series on the topic of shounen/seinen with female protagonists. Maybe Ghost in the Shell as well!
Did you seriously just call Frieren gen z's FMA? Hu, that makes perfect sense. That makes a whole lot of sense. Thank you I needed that. It really helped me with something. Sometimes you've been around the block so long and have collected so many anime that are special to you, you can forget that this is somebodies first special anime. I remember when the '03 series was airing on Toonami and how special that was for a young me. Thank you
If you liked Frieren and Mao Mao as complex female characters, I'd recommend you to read Yona of the Dawn. I swear Yona has one of the best female character development I've ever seen in all of the manga I have read. It's a slippery start, but the political intrigue, found family & character dynamics are all so worth it!
people talk about female characters "written by a woman" or "written by a man" but it's more about whether the female characters are portrayed as (and limited to) archetypes or as three-dimensional characters.
I love the apothecary diaries, ive become obsessed with it to the point of hilarity. Just one thing, that, since you haven't read the manga you dont know, but it actually doesnt take place in china, its a made up country whose people and customs do look chinese, but even the map of the country is different, but thats a story for the second season :D
I had a fun experience with these two shows. I was visiting Japan and both frieren and apothecary diaries were on Japanese netflix so I ended up watching both of these banger shows back to back during all of my down time on my trip (so worth it)
Yes, please do a deeper dive into Apothecary Diaries! I loved the Frieren analysis in this video, but the AD analysis was too short and left me not understanding what you loved about it. Perhaps it was just too vague and didn't go into the psychology of the character as much as your analysis of the characters in Frieren. I think that your careful dissection of Apothecary Diaries' characters, writing, and background would be such a treat!
I loved the apothecary diaries. Am thrilled for the next season :) and just an hour ago I started watching Frieren. We'll see how I'll like that one :D
Honestly friren made me cry every episode on my 2nd rewatch truly a beautiful anime the apothecary diaries is honestly a pretty emotional series and a very very slow romance anime
I honestly would also love to see an arc in Frieren where Frieren has to fight a bunch of people. Knowing how she is, I'm sure she'll fight smart, and I'd love to see her kicking everyone's asses. Frieren Vs. Overlord. Who wins? I know who my pick is.
What i also love with these protagonists is that the asexual community/aromantic community get seen. Especially Frieren, and i adore that. There are so many ways to adore these characters and i just love them so much :]
1:50 Boys never had problems with female protagonists. For instance, Miyazaki became a legend with lots and lots of them. Shonen have shallow females? Yes. It has shallow characters almost by design. Boys tend to value things over people, so the main points are the fights, the plot, the conflict, the war, the dragons, the weapons, the magic, the animation, etc. Give a good story with a male, a female, an alien, anything as protagonist and they will love it. Even if it is more focused on people than things. I’ve loved the freckles ;)
2:05 - Those and the feet folks, who have gone gaga for elf tootsies. (°-°) I'm really glad you like "The Apothecary Diaries." I agree that it was slept on a bit, but I think any other year it would have been at the top of the annual lists. And Aoi Yuki is on fire with her performance as Maomao. Feel free to do that full video on it.
Both of these protagonists have a strong relatability that makes them enjoyable. I can only use myself as an example, but MaoMao is a good example of someone who starts off relatively poor but not completely broke (lower middle class). There's an expectation of success because she doesn't start at the bottom, but with little ability for upward mobility, and because of that her cunning and drive really showcase her. Frieren is the first show since Violet Evergarden to bring me to tears. As a 40 year old man who beat depression via apathy, the show was a reminder of how easily I can get lost in that apathy, and losing that time with her friends finds a very real correlation in missing my children grow up. Her hunting for spells is my getting lost in work and missing my sons soccer game. I find myself trying to become less like Frieren, and more like Eisen, who, although his life is long, acknowledges his age and restrictions and accounts for that by finding joy wherever he can.
