From Svelte to Go and HTMX 

Can't imagine my two favorite tech youtubers on one video together, this is legendary

Next up: from Go + HTMX back to PHP.

It’s nice seeing The Rock get into HTMX

This is the colab we need. Anthony and prime talking Go let's do it

I did the same for the previous few months. I used to have a Go backend server and a svelte frontend, I use the static svelte generator to generate static files and directly serve them as static files using caddy. Now, I only have a Go backend which spits out HTMX. It takes way less effort than I imagine. However, the performance of my tiny internal tool that only be used by a dozen of people is the same. The maintenance time does go down though.

Love that chat about type security. Anything without static code analysis warning/errors is so much harder to refactor in the future because it takes so long to hopefully find all the dependencies. And you can never be sure you have found them all

"How many config files do you have in your frontend app?" "Yes"

So it's Laravel + Livewire? The modular monolith lives to fight another day son! I like to think that a PHP dev whose comfortable with Laravel could step up their skillset to Go in this type of capacity relatively easily and gain some new skills in typed languages but without a completely jarring learning experience. Go is the PHP developers secret best friend, they just don't know it yet 😅

I don't want to be THAT guy.... but the hated C# had this for decades :D type-safe, async data fetching from within the template, streaming rendering etc, hot reload in templates (now also in code). Just saying :) btw, now it's even better with with Blazor server rendering

I built an entire app with golang and HTMX, without even realizing TEMPL existed! I used the built in text/template for Go and I didn't actually hate it.

Prime has been so good for the developer community at large. I hate to think of a world without him.

Svelte kit is now the recommended choice even if it’s going to be full SPA .. basically for the built in routing

4:58 yes i am a lazy backend developer, I want the answers to my problems to be easy and simple "idiots admires complexity"

It finally happened. Anthony on Prime’s channel🎉

4:47 I 100% agree with what he's saying trying to build a solid piece of software with react and some backend languages could be a nightmare in terms of security, integration and stuff.

Can't help but realize how we're coming back full circle to the modular monolith and I quite welcome it. I'm leaning towards the Elixir/LiveView side of the fence, but I wonder: what is the breaking point? Is it the over-complication of the JS/TS ecosystem? Is it because the cognitive load for writing and maintaining SPAs is going off the roof? Is it because SPA frameworks and libraries are getting so bloated that it defeats the purpose? Is it because each of those frameworks and libraries lock you in (I'm looking at you, React "library")? Or is it simply because the SPA model was never the right one? My take on it is that the only thing we've ever needed was the ability to hook up a certain HTML element with an isolated state and logic, and the JS+HTML model never provided that out of the box, whereas with traditional AJAX+SSR it's quite easy to implement. The latter traditionally suffered from scoping issues with global JS for interaction, and most importantly global CSS for styling, and it looks like HTMX and the PHP model of rendering within the language bounds fix the former issue, and Tailwind just obliterates the latter.

mmm doing the same but with Ruby and Sinatra. It feels like a warm blanket in a land where the word "Javascript" has never been mentioned

Wow I literally just watched Anthony GG's video with this video queued, having no idea that you were reviewing his video

Reminds me of Smarty templating in PHP, but over time it was so overkill for my needs I just rolled my own no-dependencies simpler version that doesn't have fancier stuff like pre-parsed template file caching. I wonder how hard Templ goes.

Underlined whiteline (after "platform"). Literally unreadable. :P Also, I'm stunned how this thing is called "crazy" and "insane" but in fact is the same thing like JSP/JSF from 17 years ago! They also seemed cool at first glance, but turned out to be really, REALLY bad idea, mixing model with view and controller. That's maybe great to some small projects (in terms of code base and dev count), but would be real pain in larger ones. That's actually crazy how IT sector is crazy over the same things and mistakes over and over again! :D

Prime hates C#. Prime loves every single C# feature other languages adopt Go figure

Was just thinking: What if they wanted to style their “go” components (those functions) like you can already in Svelte, in a modular and colocated fashion? If they wanted to move away from tailwind for whatever reason (which has all the styles already globally set and just referenced as classes, which works well here). Maybe someday there could be a Go framework (maybe integrated into Templ) that can compile and ship CSS classes in a Svelte-like way too. That’d be nifty. Disclaimer: Am not Gopher.

HTMX it's been a breath of fresh air. For it to take off and become a trend, it just needs to be adopted by a large company. That would create a cycle of interest around the lib, open up job vacancies and spark more interest from the community.

What building in 30 sec is long ? The building process of our app now takes well over an hour (90% java, 10% JS) with testing. Java artefact generation takes ages...

The title is a bit misleading, they didn't move from sveltekit to hmtx+go, but rather from sveltekit+go which makes total sense considering they wanted to focus on one language

Sounds like nightmare fuel serving the front-end from the backend again like this. We will sit this hype out for a while and see how it goes for others.😅 Can't also imagine all our front-enders switching to this, that will be a steep curve.

Never used Go before , but it's time to start a new adventure I guess... was an amazing stream man! WD!

I like to use go+quicktemplate. It is a bit arcane but it is compiled so it is type safe

12:22 I could have sworn the html/template already did this. VScode chad, so wouldn't surprise me if it just twerks. Also everything passed into Go's native templates is just parsed into a string anyway.

Go templates with type safety kind of just sounds like razor

GSP's retirement is going well

Just use the to make the modaels.

16:20 his issue was he mixes sveltekit (a full stack framework) with "go", either choose sveltekit or "go" with something else. sveltekit has use:enhance, he didn't need to proxy anything, all he had to do was using (s) with `use:enhance` and combine it with the `form` html attribute, and do everything with form actions, without any proxy, he doesnt have to manage any state, doesnt have to build a proxy, its just boosting. something like this +page.server.ts const count = kv.value(0); export const load = (async (event) => { return { count: await count.get() }; }) satisfies PageServerLoad; type zSetCount = z.infer; const zSetCount = object({ value: string().regex(/^\d+$/).transform(Number).pipe(number().min(0)) }); export const actions = { async setCount(event) { const form = await parseFormData(await event.request.formData(), zSetCount); const response = { setCount: form }; if (!form.valid) fail(response); await count.set(form.data.value); return response; } } satisfies Actions; +page.svelte export let data: PageData; export let form: ActionData; $: count = form?.setCount.data.count ?? data.count ?? 0; const setCountFormId = uniqueId(); + {count} - OR if you like more reuseable actions export let data: PageData; export let form: ActionData; $: count = form?.setCount.data.count ?? data.count ?? 0; const countUp = uniqueId(); const countDown = uniqueId(); + {count} - and all works even when you disable js on the browser.

the complexities comes with modals, which should be, is insane.

Feels like it would be possible to write a linter that typechecks template/html templates

Again thanks prime to let me escape Typescript Hell. Now I can happily live my life in Go and use and contribute my favorite Go FOSS project. Templ !

It sounds like they were just using go as most of the logic anyway and they just needed some output so its web compatible. Seemed like they created more of Go API with a front end GUI. Sveltekit is still great as a whole.

this reminds me of server-side scripting, seems like tech took a detour. perhaps out of boredom or to solve a problem only to create many more. going back to the late 90's and early 2000s, i created many beautiful web applications without the need for React, Angular and etc... just good old JavaScript and ajax and sprinkles of direct server-side script, I still scratch my head as to how we arrived where we are now.

"Modern js development" sounds a bit like "modern horse riding" This is basically the stack I'm set on. I'm using gorm for now but I'm thinking of ditching it because it just takes too long to debug SQL with it. Thinking of using clover db for prototyping.

Rust + wasm , lets go

So weird that webdev seems to go back to simply PHP

Interesting... This feels like the good old vendor locking situation. If your company is quite big, and every department has different needs, then a headless implementation would be a better choice. Am I missing something? Is this the Backend way to do Frontend? What about security? Web components... good but we are not there yet. Something is missing. Otherwise there will be only WC and not a need to use react, vue, svelte, ... (Also, HTML has a default tag for modal called dialog)

HTMX is making frontend DRY again! YAY!

Ready to hear about why the old way is the new hotness.

Today's a good day to use HTMX

Prime when are you gonna switch to qwerty layout? I recall a tweet sometime ago saying you were gonna migrate over. Waiting to see your sweet vim shortcuts in qwerty format.

Am building with svelte and I understand his point of view, server side rendering requires you to use javascript on the backend which doesn't give you the benefit of go performance

Please no please no please no something went wrong on this timeline

Hey! Love your videos that contains Go 😅. Keep it up! Hopefully we see more of it

@ThePrimeTime For rust, you should really try and give Poem and Maud a try. Maud is very good, it’s html entirely as macros, and poem is, well, frankly, beautiful. I highly recommend it.

templ: using your main language in your templates. Ok, so 25 years later you're still reinventing php?

21:15 what are you using to take so long?

I don't understand how a FE framework would force you to use JS on the BE? between them is either REST or GraphQL, does not matter what you use

Is HTMX production ready? And are there any major drawbacks of using it? I currently have a Spring Boot backend and a NextJS frontend, where I basically only do the rendering. I was also thinking about switching to MVC with HTMX, as from what I see it would be faster to work with than writing all the API types 2 times.

Finally this JS nonesence is fading away. I hope htmx becomes more widely accepted, so that Teams can finally remove this FEBE barrier. It's a complete game changer. We'll get more of better software.

That's looks like jsp in java. Am I wrong. I don't realy like jsp. The htmx stuff is shoot to the past isn't it or did I misunderstood something?

Htmx is cool to use, very simple. It seem very similar to JSP in J2ee with async process to get the rendered view. It's very nice to not use javascript and JSON to refresh the data of the view to get the same result

no types is the only reason I am still not down with htmx for larger projects

When the Top G validates your work 😎

php lazavel did this with Blade template engine like a decade ago

for building a simple website that request api and display the result, yeah it will do the job. but if you build a complex frontend like video editor, photo editor, game, i think pick a frontend framework would be the better choise, and then it help you to manage that complex code by writing in component based concept and if our backend is consumed by mobile too, we need to determine that if the request come from website tyen return html, if the request come from mobile then return json, if the request come from dekstop app? 🤔🤔

the only problem is react, angular, svelte has a lot of component libraries which wont be available of we use go+templ+htmx

Still not convinced to how this would work with complex front ends. I think I am going to prove myself wrong.

4:20 Yeah. Imagine the feeling, you writing your backend with Python, Go or Rust. But you have to use NodeJs for frontend... It sucks. That's why I searching vids about HTMX, to learn about alternatives to Node and NPM stuff.

Everyday I'm more excited with go lang

Some people have forgotten that client-side rendering + json was invented to unify backend for web and mobile applications?

Immediately there is a notification over 1000 people said "Yes i want to listen to this guy talk."

The mention of mobile apps is so hilarious because all we try to do on the web is have the same experience that native apps do, and we do a goddamn good job at it with very little code and tooling that isn't as bad as Xcode and Android Studio. "It was better before" is like saying that all we do on the web is just displaying API results, but it is not. You love handling sessions on the backend? I don't. Complex UI require complex states. We aren't all writing clones of Wordpress. Just trying to avoid using any sort of global state machine to handle cross feature states, mixing in navigation and shortcuts and so on, is enough to make me cry in pain.

how does hot reloading work? ui without hot reloading is insane.

19:24 That has always triggered me so hard. It's like "Why couldn't we have just all settled on a .config directory or something??". I've tried adding config to package.json where possible, but eventually I just gave up and put a massive files.exclude block in VS Code's settings.json file...

Django 5.0 + htmx

I like to think of HTMX as html templating but on the frontend

I learned vanilla front end and some php for backend in my uni courses. Are these templates like making a .php file and just include-ing it in other places? And any advice you can give? So far I built a basic project for the course but it ended up as a spaghetti mess of .php files and juggling data with session and figuring what carries over after a page refresh and what not. In the end I felt likr backend and frontend became one elden ring abomination. I concluded that Id rather bash my head to solve logical backend problems then trying to untangle frontend frameworks. Tho im not fat, nor have a fedora or uwu keycaps

It finally happened

So Templ is basically a reinvented PHP? I love HTMX BTW.

19:18 just config hell anxiety things ♾.

MVC stands for Modals, Very Cool!

How many of you using htmx are mostly working BE?

Soo here are a ton of web devs. I'm from desktop and embedded development and like to ask, is there still a way to create a proper Ogl or dx game within browser, like at one time unity supported? I'm looking for a way to host a game in the web without the user having to install anything, and letting me use shader and stuff like that. Does anybody know how to do something like that these days?

I knew The most Backend Language Programmers that will adopt HTMLx is Golang devs

6:35 is exactly why I hate this usage of JSON

Feels like endless reinventing of the wheel.. ASP was released when? In 1996? And Java/JSP had most of this by 1999.

Prime is so meaty now he used to he a big scrub but hes like an extra large filet mignon... not much fat but a lot of tender soft meaty value. It's a pleasure to see.

idk man, I really don't see a draw... Sveltekit has already got me developing the front and backend at the same time and it's all just normal js/ts and html stuff which is fast and easy. If I needed more performance out on the backend, there are plenty of tricks you can do before throwing away your whole tech stack. I get in his case he already had lots of code in GO, then sure, otherwise if you are starting from scratch, Sveltekit makes way way more sense.

a go legend reacting to a go legend

13:55 is that what react users be like once they discover proper frameworks? Wait cant you do that in svelte? 🤔

looks like that c# for front ned

All I know is yavascript sounds way better than the JavaScript that I use and will definitely be adopting that pronunciation without even npm installing it.

I imagine this htmx would be very hard to build around highly complex business logic But I've not used it yet so idk; however this dudes site looks super basic so you could write it in anything from what I can tell there is barley a need to use any libraries, could even get away with pug or something

Antonygg is my fav golang personality he codes live and gives good content. Though he bases you and theo in this video 😅

It's a BRRRRRRRREEZE

my man Anthony GG! The strongest high value engineer on the yt

I'm switching from Rails to Go+Templ+HTMX.

So based

GoTH Stack seems like a real winner ngl..

red commits are the best commits.

Seems like reinventing aspnet razor pages but in go xD

Hey that's literally me

Honestly, go error handling doesn’t even bother me. I’m used to it now but if you’re not, it is a little much at first.

I was also watching comments... "Ciansweeney" had a point!