@@RhodesianSuperiority2h obliterate allowed me to straight nuke through og pandaria and that was with plain awful rng. Like more than 6 months to get tinker gem and Sha axe each. Never got my cloak. Leveled to max within first week of WoD do to garrison and could solo like 20 mobs while leveling. Making it stupid fast questing. Only reason I quit is because computer burnt out from the lava and fire effects.
@@alihordaif I remember correctly, back in WoD when Breath was first introduced to DKs. It was a choice talent on the last row for all specs since talent trees were really dumbed down and simple.
Good breakdown. I like the direction they are going overall, but still think some things need to change. Frost still suffers from the janky crit scaling. They changed how crit worked for paladins, I wish they would do the same for frost. What if KM didn't give 100% crit chance. Instead made obliterate 100% frost damage, while regular oblit did half frost half physical. This would allow them to adjust oblit damage across the board to be less reliable on the km procs, and the KM procs wouldn't suffer from the awkward scaling. But at the same time, hitting oblit with the KM procs would still feel good to press, when without KM currently it feels bad to hit. I think a change to KM overall would help the spec truly shine and get way from so much damage based around cds. (Though pillar could also change to help with that as well)
Yeah, modern m+ with Modifiers just force you to move around and control or avoid something, spend 2 min CD and deal no damage because of it just not fun... I hope they gonna make us 15-20 meters range like in legion. I mean ret does, why DK can't.
That's just... not true. Also no one has played breath in M+ for the entire expansion, 2h obliteration is currently the best way to play frost in m+ and it pumps hard as fuck
@@icresp4263 people like biceppump kept saying it is better than 2h obliteration but dmg scale say otherwise. Yes BoS is good for crowd mobs but I don't think it deserve to be final talent tree in my opinion since it works like a trinket or at least reduce the cd & add more dmg
@phy-raditz BoS interacts with the entire frost dk talent tree, it should definitely be a cap stone, and a lot of people dont like it, as a cap stone you can ignore it and play 2h if you want. It's only good when you can consistently hit mobs for its full duration, but even then, 2h puts out almost the same amount of dps. The issue is the duration of it, which is being looked at and sitting around 45-50s average atm on the alpha which is far better to play with. My original comment I rushed out, I was saying that 'most people just want to play 2h frost' is the untrue part. There are a lot of people who love BoS, why should they lose their favourite playstyle. There's also a huge amount of people who want to play DW obliteration, and they've been left out for the entirety of DF. The new tree seems to cater to all playstyles in some way which is impressive.
@@icresp4263 It is the duration that kills it tbh. I like BoS but I just don't admire the fact of how it is. Now that the talent tree is changed up a bit maybe it's possible to 2h obliterate+ BoS considering we're getting 5 extra talent points. I wish they could add more better runes at least to make DW relevant, I do enjoy playing 2h hander oblit but it gets boring and old too quickly.
You can't really say that "no dk wants to dw with obliterate". There are quite a lot of current oblit players that do enjoy dw, but are shoehorned into 2h (with some enjoying 2h more and some not). Looking back, the biggest reason talent 2e icecap was mostly not played (and dw oblit in SL and talent 3e in DF) was not because of the "fun factor" but largely due to lack of competitive dps. If these TWW talent changes enable dw oblit to become competitive with 2h oblit and dw BoS, then I predict that oblit players will be split somewhere between 70/30 and 60/40 between 2h/dw.
I definitely prefer dual wielding over a 2h. To me, it fits the class fantasy better and dual wielding is specified as the standard for the specialization in the game and dual wielding just looks more badass imo. I use a 2h because obliteration build forces you to but I use the legion artifact dw mog so it gives me the appearance that I am dw haha
A baby between Legion artifacts, and Covenants. they do it right this time tho, being able to switch anytime you want, and not behind any kind of grind
having 7 stacks of icy talon for frost is gonna be metal asf, i hope blizzard will find a way for us to squeeze in 3 more icy talon stacks to get 10 stacks.
@@MarcelianOnline if frost dk had recived a talent that makes us deal to deal frost damage with our melee swings then that talent would be insane with the damage it amps up our regular melee swings
dude to hell with all these spoilers im grinding work until the expansion comes out buying a hot fresh new potato quitting my job stocking up on hungry mans and putting on a onesie yo its gametime
Shattered frost would be nice with avalanche spreading razor ice on everything and then tabbing to each mob with 5 stacks to dump runic power procing 1 stack at a time aoeing on each 1. So if 8 mobs get 5 stacks frost strike each one and aoe splash frost strike damage 8 times to all 8 and of course the more the marrier
Looks great. If they change the cleave from D&D some sort of aura. It’s gonna be perfect. To be honest at this point D&D only makes sense on blood DKs. Idk why they keep the cleave linked to this skills doesn’t make sense fantasy wise.
I think a cool idea would be to have Breath of Sindragosa be a toggle abiltiy with no cooldown and take down the damage. 2 minutes is way too long to synergize with other buffs and cd's. As a frost DK main since WOTLK i like the idea of the 2 playstyles but they need to change also in my opinion the KM to Frost Strike and not Obliteration. The spender ability needs to the strong point and not the filler.
I really hope they make it able to dual wield or two hand with two distinct choices and not be forced to do one the entire time. Each playstyle within 5-10% of each other
I am sad you spent so much time on Breath not being good. How about instead talk about the kickass Frost Strike Dual Wield potential harkening back to some initial playstyles for Frost (well once they weren't the tank spec anymore.)
Imagine if GM hunter dark ranger was your main and you've seen almost every class and then you see what they planned for you... Nothing says ephue to the most played class (hunter) like the love they spent on everyone except the hunter.
Inst there any rework for Blood so far? i started playing Frost DK and now am surely coming back to it and play both specs (Frost and Blood), man i can almost see the team getting all this cool ideas, using old stuff from Legion and covenant stuff that worked out, reading the feedback and putting it all together with so much passion and love, so much effort well done... Same for palas, mages and looks like also for chaman And then there is Jorge, being drunk and half a sleep as the only guy working on the hunter.
But which build felt better/more fun to play ? BoS or Obliterate ? Also did you test 2h vs 1h with the new auto attack buffs in both scenarios ? Seeing all these changes makes me feel like frost will become 1h dual wield only spec and that's fine , but i really want to know how that changes the damage profile of Obliteration because for me , BoS has always been the worst way to play frost dk imo
@@dmargjrthere are a lot of us that prefer dw over 2h and don't play breath, if these changes make dw oblit competitive it's not gonna tank 2h oblit. At very most it will be 60/40 2h/dw.
@@drag0nl0rd123 the issue was that when it was an option for both they almost forced you to be dw. So as long as both can be played that’s fine. But when has that ever been an option.
So many issues for Breath-mains could be solved if they would jsut add more of the buttons you want to press oGCD while breath is active. Ie: Remorseless Winter and Frost Frever do not incur the Global Cooldown while channeling BoS. Or something like that.
Where in the talent tree does it say that consuming killing machine reduces the cooldown of reaper's mark? i can't find that interaction anywhere which you spoke of.
I'm just glad breath uptime is getting nerfed (at least blizz said that's their goal). Having shorter more powerful breath is a lot more fun personally. Learning the boss fight and learning when is the optimal time to pop your breath rewards you for learning the boss fight and gives you a lot more control rather than poping it at the start and just praying that you don't get mechanics that force you to move out during an extremely long breath window. Played breath in SL, couldn't force myself to play breath in DF.
Why do some videos show Razorice stacking to 5 and others don't show it at all? I get that you're probably swapping weapons, but it's Dragonflight 10.2.7 and I've applied Rune of Razorice to a 2H I have, and I did a follower dungeon, but I see no Razorice stacks appearing on any mobs, I only see my Frostfever applied. Is there some option that turns RazorIce buff on or off in settings? I also don't get why the new War Within talents have interactions with RazorIce when every guide says to put Rune of Fallen Crusader on your 2H, instead of RazorIce.
As much as i would love to pick up frost as main spec for my Dk i still feel there are quite a bit of QoL changes that could be made. BoS is pretty much a dead/wasted talent imo and should have been done away with. Im glad to see some new changes in the talent trees however, its a good start at improving the spec. The main issue for Dk in general would be DnD though, at least make it to where it can move with us instead of the 4's cleaving strikes buff after leaving DnD. Overall great video as always dude, just like how ill always play unholy!
@@vincentproud6589 I think thats just the leftover from old frostscythe, and during that time, to make it so you only press it when it auto crits from killing machine
Coming back to WoW after almost 10yrs I missed my frost DK but I hate how they played in Dragon flight hopefully I find something I like this expansion.
Playing death knight for this long I'm basically dead inside, so I'll wait to see just how much damage DKs do exactly, since balancing this complexity is something no one on this earth could do.
i mean i think both 2 hander/DW both will be viable just for the group that min max ie 3.3k+io grinders and CE raiders will be just using whichever is better as rn both DW and 2 hander work till later myth bosses as oblit 2 hander does more damage overall DW just makes u feel alot more consistent but only like 15k less dps overall
I just hope all these reworks are casual and new player friendly so they dont have to spend days trying to learn to be able to play the game, to get frustrated and quitting.
@flame, how does the playstyle feel? Good or same sh* since legion? It sounds really interessting. If i could change something then make Horn baseline and like wotlk a group buff maybe crit if we need so much 😂 and delete breath complete. For me the biggest problem is the 2 different playstyles. Go back to 1 would feel better or how do you see it? 😅
As a Frost Breath DW DK main, I can agree and disagree with some criticisms. Remorseless winter is not problematic to keep up during breath. I get to press it on cd so it isn't anti-synergy. Losing runeforge hysteria does suck but instead of razorice they have changed the other runes to give stats you can just take those. Having bonus stats are very good for dw frost dks since it scales well. I do agree the cd lineup is extremely awkward with breath build and there could def be some fixes like making horn of winter more accessible for breath. And the synergies with the rider talents are awkward. I really really think frostscythe should generate runic power as it would feel punishing to press during breath. The remorseless thing tho is not a problem, the only button you ever worried about during breath is frost strike, you just dont press that and youre good. In raid I can maintain my breath the entire fight with no externals. I have lots of problems with the hero talents.
Frost Scythe has always been a dead talent and tricky to fit in!? what are you talking about? Frost Scythe has been amazing since it's implementation. I used to destroy groups of enemies with that ability. Probably still can.
Im not optimistic, only okay change with potential is frostscythe and heroic talents give me some hope since DK is in sore need for rework. Wish they would finally remove breath its annoying, anytime you pop it you feel pressure to mash buttons to feed that rp bar its stale and obsolete. The auto attack talent, yeah gl with a 2hander for only chance on crit instead guaranteed proc on crit as it should be and I hate when talents force you to dual wield we should have viable options for both. All in all here's hoping it will turn out ok since I stopped maining Dk cuz of staleness, oblsolete playstyle and nerfs.
When are DK content creators gonna realize that anything good they report gets nerfd...yall need to keep it low and/or lie and say its trash so they leave us alone.
Been playing frost DK for few years now , i kinda really know this class and specc but still getting owned by UH DK's , even tried to to Unholy but this specc is kinda not for me since most of Your dmg is from Your pets , really happy about Frost DK in TWW , i hope it is gonna be good finally.
I think the main under talked about things are 1) soft (always crit when behind target) or hard (100% either direction) capping crit. 2) positioning to guarantee everything crits. 3) getting haste to lower global cooldown/reduce cooldowns/and make auto atk time laughably low.
Finally. It finally feels like we can dual wield again without being forced into Breath builds. I've personally hated Breath since it's inception and loved the fast attacking, many crits dual wield frost had back in Wrath. It feels like that is back and I am all for it.
I have always hated breath of sindragosa. Also, I would rather the obliterate spec do more damage with 2 1handers instead of a 2hander. We should get the added benefit of a 2nd weapon rune which should make the uptime in PvE as dual wield more powerful than 2h builds…
Same. I'd rather we get a few other dots to throw on/another buff or transformation/ascension ability. Maybe some sort of aoe 360 use spikes. Something.
The problem with frost DK is that by the time you pop pillar of frost then Chill Streak, abomination limb, remorseless winter and then death and decay for cleave and then howling blast for a killing machine proc you have only 4-5 seconds of pillar of frost left and it feels super bad. Switching talents around only fixes half of the specs issues. Also i wish they would scrap runes. Its dated and it sucks. BUT i am glad its getting some attention because i have always loved the spec but its been left behind for a long time.
I know some people like it but I hate the Bias mini game. I am going to be so freaking disappointed if BoS continues to outclass other builds for frost DK.
They need to get rid of the whelps. It's just does not fit my head cannon at all. Summoning Babies? Boo....even the larger dragon is meh. Just give me Skeletons that cast frost bolts please. I like my undead. It's time for customizable ghouls. Death and Decay simply needs to become an aura with a radius that stays on you instead of a AOE on the ground. I would personally like to see a little more shadow in my ice spells. Chains of ice needs a new animation Take away Abomination arm. I just don't think it fits our lore / playstyle them at all. AT least in its current look. Fun idea for a talent imo: ICEWALL- summon a Ice wall to block incoming damage. ( It could be very similar to when we have to hide behind a summoned object to not get hit by damage similar to dungeons. So useful utility that the spec can bring to your raid party. ) ICEFLOW- Summon a patch of ice in front of you. Any player who walks on the patch will have their movement speed increased 80%. This stacks with other movement increasing effects. The greater your speed % the more you will slide at the end of the flow. (Similar to a speed Roar, this would be what I think would be a fairly thin long line. Say 5x15ft. The idea being you have to run in a straight line to get the most use out of it. Could be fun for speed runs/ again more flavor utility.) Sliding at the end goes WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE and adds a random element of danger and fun.
Honestly man frost now looks cool but still plays like shit with frostscythe rework and death and decay still being in frost dk... D&D needs to go and frostscythe should be buffed again like it was in BFA. It was absolutely insanely fun back then
Some nice changes but... Is this it? Not a rework, this is a bandage to a broken specc. Who came up with, lets do a capstone based on AUTO-ATTACKS?? Seems very boring. We still have the issue of not getting KM proccs, you don't do any damage. Please bring back the base damage to oblitirate without KM procc. Please. Because this feels like a lot of RNG is involved. Either stars align and you deal great dps, or you hit like a noddle.
I much prefer dual wield than 2h frost. It just feels right. 2h is slow. It's more suited for UH. Dragonflight has been super boring for Frost and i am looking forward to the return of dual wield sindragosa. Still wish they just normalised the damage and set it to 1m CD though. That would stop the hating.