Where can I find the raw data for these 500,000 consults or those 2,500 in San Diego Cardinal Mcelroy talks about. For example: I am a very active Catholic and I know almost no o e concerned primarily about the LGBTQ “community” or discrimination in our Church, etc. I do not trust this Cardinal conclusions and I’d like to see the methods used for this consults and the raw data.
@@oceanecastelnau9821 based on everything you’ve been told I understand it would be hard for you to be open to but as someone who has worked with people to heal their trauma our past plays a profound role in the choices we make. I’ve never worked with someone who identified as homosexual that did not have their identity shaped by a specific event in their childhood. While some are repressed others are directly associated with being sexually abused and the chaos that causes. Others are more subtle reasons like look for love and acceptance. It’s a complex and subtle subject that I’d be happy to answer If you have genuine questions and are genuinely open to a different word view than the one you currently hold
@@331SVTCobra homosexuality while not always will most often be linked to a specific sexual trauma. However there are more subtle cases where someone begins to identify this way because of scary events in childhood.
100% on the judgmentalism. We love to throw each other in the dirt. How many times does Jesus say, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees…” who were growing in power and who felt they had to put bright lines around each and every issue in the Torah? Woe to us, I think, who pretend to know the mind of God, and who, on both sides of the issues, are too quick to form opinions based on very limited information. Folks seem to want God to be a simple machine or accounting software that they can manipulate or from which they can expect a predictable outcome. Me too, but in my experience, and in my reading, that doesn’t seem to be the way God operates. However, that’s based on my own experiences and readings, maybe God is more predictable with other folks. Maybe I’m just nuts. I know that I’m in need of repentance, and for things that nobody knows but me, just like everybody else. Let’s love each other, with unmistakable affection and humility through this time. After all, there is nothing new under the Sun.
I totally agree. I especially agree with the point in people wanting a predictable outcome or seeing God as an accountant. They are saying “if I put in my time and effort, I had better get some reward for it”. Operating with this motivation is ridiculous to me. More than ridiculous!! Ungodly!!!
yes they are. people who commit mortal sin should not receive communion. regardless of what the sin is. i have personally refrained from communion for sins such as disrespecting my spouse. so needless to say sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin too. and if u are in a same sex relationship …. well , those intimate actions are mortal sins
Yes… he’s literally saying exactly that. When he says ‘we don’t say these things are mortal sins’ he means it literally: they are mortal sins, but very often we don’t say they are because we’re so hyper focused on sexual sins. You’re agreeing with him about the badness of those things.
My question to Cardinal McElroy is what, specifically, is the Church of God? Is living like Jesus mean we must just be nice to each other and that's it? Please give a clear vision of a parish community living out the Catholic faith according to this synodal way.
First, YES, we cannot judge what is inside someone's heart, but OTOH, we can definitely judge someone's action to be right or wrong. So, we can definitely say, for example, that someone who commits adultery does something sinful ... Second, I think they are missing the points in the parable of the Prodigal Son. First, the Prodigal Son comes back home with shame and humility (which portrays the repentance of the sinner). Second, more importantly to the point that one of the hosts was trying to make, the older son does not have a problem with his younger brother, leaving home or coming back ... instead, the older son has a problem with the Father, who shows love and joy that his brother comes back home. In any case, this is all predicated on the fact that the Prodigal Son returns home ... or repents of his transgressions ...
thank u for this. so true. the church wants all to repent. not just gay people. but at the same time it is uncharitable to not call folks who act on their same sex attraction to repentance. sex outside of marriage is in fact a mortal sin. full stop
You MUST be in the state of grace to receive The Lord worthily, St Paul spoke quite clearly. Mortal sin IS fornication, abortion and the sin of Sodom which cries out to God for vengeance. St Paul is speaking as if he himself truly believes in the True Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. There needs to be more Bishops and Cardinals even priests who believe as St Paul and defend our dear Lord and the souls He has committed to their care.
This is massively problematic from McElroy who misses out loads of important points and comes across as just manipulating doctrine to push a particular agenda. Jesus was radical in his welcoming outreach to everyone, but at the same time, equally radical in his demand for conversion. To no one did Jesus ever offer welcome tout court; he always summoned them to the hard work of real discipleship. This is the whole point of being a Christian, of confirming our lives to Christ.
We are to repent of our sins, change our lives and conform to Church teaching not the other way around. Yes we want and welcome everyone to be Catholics but that means that those who wish to be Catholics are willing to live according to our teachings and not try to change them to fit their way of life, a life of sin.
The Cardinal says it's not a mortal sin to not rip off your employees but isn't one of the sins that cry to heaven for vengeance "Defrauding laborers of their wages"? If so, why wouldn't that be a mortal sin?
The Cardinal did not say that ... I think what he was saying is that the mortal sin that prevent us from receiving the Holy Communion is automatically assumed to be sexual in nature, while at the same time there are other sins (like what you mentioned: ripping off employees, discriminating against someone, etc.) that we don't automatically assume to be mortal sins, but actually they are. I don't think the Cardinal disagrees with you ... he just wants to go the other way ... to say that not all sexual sins are mortal, and therefore should not be an obstacle for someone who commits these sins to receive the Holy Communion without going to Confession first. His argument is that to consider all sexual sins are mortal sins is OUTDATED, since that notion came from the 16th century ... Now, just consider what these sexual sins are: adultery (including THINKING of having sex with someone not your spouse), fornication, masturbation, etc. and think for a moment which one(s) that the Cardinal would consider NOT a mortal sin ...
@@fjodorcornelisson6874 Mathew 5:28 "But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."... This came from Jesus, way before the 16th century.
@@fjodorcornelisson6874 besides, all mortal sin should keep you from receiving Holy Communion because mortal sin is a sin that removes you from a state of having sanctifying grace. You don't need to be perfect to receive communion as the Cardinal suggests, but you do need to be in a state of having this sanctifying grace (i.e no mortal sin). To have venial sin does not remove one from sanctifying grace.
@@fifamaniac04 The "we" here refers to he himself, but to us people in general. What I think he was trying to say is that when you're a member of LGBT community, people automatically say that you cannot receive the Holy Communion, but if you own your business and don't pay your employees properly, you get a pass ...
Sexual morality is at the center of catholic morality ACCORDING TO JESUS AND THE APOSTLE PAUL, but of course, we know what the Scriptures and Catechism of the Catholic Church teach what liberals like james martin or mcelroy teach and there is a huge difference. Bad shepherds are easy to recognize: the vast of german bishops and those who like them promote same-sex sexual practices using the word inclusion are the same ones who exclude themselves of the Catholic Church.
Acts 20:29, “I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.” The Cardinal should make his own Gospel together with the German bishops. Remember the church belongs to Jesus Christ. Mathew 16,18 “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,” “My church” The synod creates a democracy. Majority wins and imposes. It’s is a non-serviam culture.
Regarding LBGQ etc, I agree with have to see them as striving if they indeed are, however, when the express pride, and claim it's all OK I have to draw the line.
I believe Pride is the wrong method that my fellow LGBT people use to express themselves. I am LGBT myself and I don't support the idea of Pride or same-sex marriage, I support the idea of equal treatment and involvement in the Church and non-discrimination, but not the wrong use of marriage or the expression of Pride in ourselves, which can make us ignorant and selfish. No, I do not dislike the very base of homosexuality or LGBTQ+ people, I believe that like me, they are like this and like me, they cannot change. But marriage IS between a male and a female. And Pride is nothing more than a festival which glorifies the human that we have, which is just part of our Human nature. Pride is like a festival which glorifies if we're smart, male, female, european, asian, white, black etc. Completely unneeded and proved to be harmful.
@@ChrisLeirbagpride is really the faulty of the church and the culture it fostered for centuries, it’s simply because they were an often prosecuted and degraded group and they’re just coming out of that culture
The Cardinal erred - San Diego is not on the Border. Chula Vista County is. That place has been half - Mexican for a long time. Half or more. San Diego is of course well on the same track, especially since the Dems started hard with ignoring all immigration laws a few years ago with this "sanctuary State" stuff. Given how lefty my Pope is, this new Cardinal is probably the same, sadly.
So people never lie to themselves about their sins? Actually, they do. Self-deception is the most common of human experiences, right up there with breathing, which is why Jesus said the truth will set us free. This may come as a shock, but God is smarter than us. God gives us moral absolutes because He knows all the repercussions of our actions better than our cunning self-accommodating minds can imagine. And when Francis tells us that it's all right for a man to "discern" that he can abandon his family and run away with his mistress, it's not really a "new' form of "mercy" or pastoralism. In fact it's sort of merciless towards the victims of sin. It's just the same old phony sin and rationalization with new attempts at sophistry with new verbal engineering for which the sophists will have to give a final account of themselves before God. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, would you?
He says in the interview: "We have cast them largely into sexual sins". Please, tell this bishop to read the Fathers of the Church so that he would understand that the Church has not made new laws, or change the understanding of the Teachings of Jesus that the Apostles handed down to their successors and that they handed down to us. We can't change their Teachings because moral truths don't change (murder, fornication, stealing, homosexual relationships, were wrong then and thus they are wrong now)
one word for this interview - FRAGMENTARY: may be beautiful here and there, maybe true here and there but cannot be a cohesive whole in relation to the doctrine of the church.
Humanity desired and freedom and didn't following Gods law. They followed their own desires.its a mortal sin. Synonadality is not about the position,or leader. It's about inner strength. I pray.
Not by Might, not by Power, but by My Spirit. The Catholic Church has always been a welcoming Church to all people. All people are sinners and all fall short. No body is perfect. The Spirit is what leads people to the Truth. The Truth will set us all Free. Is life simple ? No. Are their variables ? Yes. The process of Sanctification will bring us closer to Him. When people judge others, it’s where the problem starts. No body has all the answers. A layman’s 2 cents.
You talked about young adults drifting from the church, theres many young adults found exclusively in the Latin Mass. open your eyes and have “dialogue” with traditionalists.
If this Cardinal thinks we should ask the Layman about whether we should include the lgbtq or not and construct the church's teachings around that, then what exactly do I need to church for?!
For me there is inclusivity but also church teaching, tradition and doctrine. God created Adam and eve. Period The lady talks about the College as if it's a school that meets to study! The College only meets during the conclave and then only members aged below 80. Can we please have better presenters?
We are all sinners. That's true. That's why we have the sacrament of Confession. We can cleanse ourselves off of our sins and start anew. How many times did St. Peter err? And Our Lord still designated him as the Rock of His Church. St. Peter was not the smartest or the bravest or the most well-behaved of the Apostles. At their first meeting, St. Peter asked Our Lord to depart from him for he knew how unworthy he was to stand in His Presence. St. Peter, a mere fisherman, was humble enough to admit his weaknesses and he learns from his mistakes. He corrects himself. Unlike Judas Iscariot, the most learned of the Apostles, when he realised his mistake, hanged himself. Was he too prideful to admit his mistake? What did the serpent say to Eve? "You will be like God, knowing good and evil". Did pride get the better of Eve and Adam? Why did Nimrod build the tower of Babel? To prove how smart he was? He can build a tower so high to reach heaven, that he is like God? Why was Satan called Lucifer (light-bearer) before his fall? Was he the smartest of all angels? It seems like the smarter we are, the more prideful we get. The more prideful we get, the more we think we don't need God or that we can be our own god. We can make our own rules.
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS ,,We encourage the Bishops, then, to provide pastoral care in full accord with the teaching of the Church for homosexual persons of their dioceses. No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral. A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin.'' (During an audience granted to the undersigned Prefect, His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, approved this Letter, adopted in an ordinary session of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and ordered it to be published.) Given at Rome, 1 October 1986. JOSEPH CARDINAL RATZINGER Prefect
Thank you for this discussion. I heard a focus on such a helpful mindset, listening, not judging, we are all striving. Appreciate the point about the overemphasis on sexual sin with many important moral life issues such as racism, exploiting workers, mistreatment of spouse or children, one could go on, tending to fall out of the picture. Yes, I wonder what we are ignoring or distracting ourselves from in our own moral life when we overemphasize the sin of another.
Well when the bible talks of the babylon city and how god demolish the city of same sex would the people of the world like that to happened believe in god is that we wont accept that god do not like
I can tell Cardinal McElroy is genuine in what he believes, but boy oh boy is he flirting with heresy on homosexuality. We might as well be Episcopalians.
Sexual sins are prohibited by Jesus. 'You shall not commit adultery;' 28 but I tell you that everyone who gazes at a. woman to lust after her has committed. adultery with her already in his heart. John 8,11 21:12 She said, “No man, Lord.” And Jesus said unto her, “Neither do I condemn thee; go, and sin no more.”
Am I reading this Cardinal right? He does not know what sin is because St Paul does not give an exhaustive list of what Sin is in Cor 1 chpt 11. This Cardinal twists Scripture and Catholic Teaching so much I don't know where to start or end. Wow how he twists the words of St John Paul 2 of Blessed Memory ------ here is how the Cathecism explains 'GRADUAL' What John Paul called “the law of gradualness” does not refer to a “gradual” turning away from sin, but to the perennial Christian doctrine that we are not yet perfect in the first moment of our conversion. When we receive a grace of conversion, we break definitively from evil and then gradually advance in holiness. We may even fall back into grave sin, but, helped by grace, we repent and start anew. Here, the sacrament of Penance has an important role to play: it calls us to renounce our sins definitively with a firm purpose of amendment. In effect, he who will not yet repent, will not yet accept God’s mercy, and so is not forgiven. (CCC no. 1451; DH 1676.) This is miles away from the way this Cleric explains it. Jesus said 'Repent and Sin no more' Where did this Cardinal learn his Vocation? I am shocked.
Cardinal McIlroy differs and opposes the words of Christ .as Jesus Christ sends the church out to preach teach repentance and conversion For all of us to be freed from the disorders Of sins because of our separation ,through the sins of Adam and eve.. Jesus told the apostles the opposite of Bishop McElroy, Jesus ,tells us we need to listen to him. Jesus knows without us telling him the mess our thinking, and our hearts are in already. Bishop McElroy, you are contradicting the word of God. You think yourself more merciful than Jesus. You suppose you have more wisdom than God himself and understand what we need better than the one who created us? May God convert you and may you teach the deposit faith handed down to us by the shed blood of Jesus Christ for 2000 years.. Saint Paul tell us, even if an angel comes in preaches a different gospel ,,it is not of the Holy Spirit and should be rejected. The word of God can never never never change.. thank God for the gift of discernment by Grace. We know cardinal McElroy That you contradict the word of God and is not of the HHoly Ghost. What a gift God has left us and so easy to discern if you know the word of God and the teaching of our Catholic Church for 2000 years. Any teaching from anybody that contradicts the 2000 year-old deposit of fate in the Catholic Church, is from the evil one. May God take the scales off of your eyes and over our eyes and give us the mind and the eyes of Christ.. pride always comes before a fall. Thank God for the fall it is God’s grace to awaken us.
It is so sad to listen to this Cardinal. He thinks his views are THE most important of all in catholic Church. He dismisses what Jesus said about sin and sinners because he knows best. He is confused and he is not fooling the older generation. He may fool the younger, but I hope not for too long.
Catholic Church has been treated like a social club over the years. With the richest being given respect. Synodality brings this to fruition. We are meant to acknowledge our sins go to the Cross and experience forgiveness , new l😮fe and a peace of mind the world cannot give . Inclusion without this gives us PTSD trying to include all !!! Trying to understand them and make allowances for them when ultimately they are not interested in Christ let alone change their ways .
@@oceanecastelnau9821no, gay people are definitely not interested in what Christ has to tell them. I've known enough of them, not one was a believer. But talk to them of anything sexual, preferably in connection with young people, you will have their interest right away.
I wish there had been more discussion of the role of conscience in Catholic spirituality. E.g., when Catholics who have had a careful formation only want to follow Christ, and who identify as LGBT, wish to do what their conscience suggests, they deserve acceptance, even a blessing.
A lot of words with no substance and plenty of equivocation. When we fail grievously we need to repent and go to Confession before being admitted to Holy Communion.
This cardinal is practically saying that all the church's teaching on morality is wrong? And only now that in this time of Pope Francis that we learned that? So you're practically saying that the saints and his predecessors were wrong all along?
I think the vision of Pope Francis is the pope being head and speaker of different churches with different doctrines...therefore his ambiguity on divisive topics like mortal sin in a relativistic age. He is tolerating the apostasy of the Synodal Way and the errors of the lgbtq+ promoting Cardinals Marx, Hollerich, Cupich and McElroy. The obvious future of Catholicism will be a loosely bond society of doctrinally autonomous bodies, some with married lesbian priests blessing marrriages between men and stallions in Munich, Germany, promoted by apostate modernists and Jesuits, and others not so inclusive in rural Minnesota ran by Bishop Barron and others.....but this will obviously not work....somebody will have to leave or the whole body will be cast into hellfire.
@@martinospitaletta8198 The seemingly arrogant and frankly heretical utterance of some cardinals these days makes Pope Benedict XVI 's thought so true that the problem facing the Church today is the 'Dictatorship of relativism" (you have your "truth" . I have my own "truth".) .....that there is no definitive truth...which is a lie. And who is the prince of lies? Figure that out.
@@solanuscaseyoldcatholiccom4868 what I commented is TRUE....listen again to this interview...this cardinal's treatment of our Moral law the moral law of the Church: he spoke about it in a manner comparable to what Pope Francis said that the "Church's Cathecesis on sex is still in diapers" which seemed to me really of insulting I mean the shade of Aquinas must be shaking to think that his moral theology was so infantile that we had to wait another thousand years for the faithful to improve upon it.
RE; pastoral approach to the pre-Conciliar Mass. Cdl. has (to my knowledge) discontinued the Mass at all but Fraternity churches. I'm trying to reconcile this with the Cardinal's view on being pastoral to those attracted to that Mass.
I think people make excuses as to why they leave the church. I don’t think we’ve really found out why with all our surveys because if their problem is inclusion then we should see the inclusive churches growing. We don’t. They are not. I’m not against inclusion. I just think when all churches are emptying out something is going on and we don’t know what it is🤷♂️
Sorry, but my Novus Ordo churches are packed. The TLM group form a very small proportion of the entire Catholic Church. And to say to your fellow Catholics that receiving Communion in the hand is sacrilegious is placing yourself in the “ holier than thou “ group, which is a dangerous precedent. Does that mean that all your fellow Catholics are in a state of Mortal Sin? What exactly are the TLM group trying to get across? BTW, I grew up in the Latin Mass. I don’t miss it one bit and I have no desire to attend another one in this life. During the Pandemic, plus being bedbound from a chronic illness, my husband and I watched the Mass from the Immaculate Conception Parish in Denver, Colorado. It was established about 50 plus years ago for people who were unable to physically attend Mass. Watch it and tell me in what way it is irreverent compared to the Latin Mass.
@@pjsmith4369 that's great to hear. I'm genuinely delighted where that is the case. Agree that TLM is only a small percentage of the overall Catholic population. I think my observation would be that, in my experience, some of the parishes that are losing people are the overly liberal -progressive ones. I've been to some great Novus Ordo masses where they are very traditional in their approach - reverence for the Eucharist, well-drilled altar boys, option to receive on the tongue, and doctrinally correct homilies. It's not either or - we're all one team!
How do you have the right to rewrite the commandments and said that if you have sex, it’s not a mortal sin, if it’s out of marriage. Sorry to say go to another religion, but this is a mortal sin.
Do you not see the obvious weakness in your assertion? The commandments HAVE effectively been rewritten. They define two sexual sins and no more: Adultery, and coveting one's neighbor's wife. Nothing about fornication, impure thoughts, homosexuality, pornography, immodest dress. All of those are inferred, not defined, sometimes drawn from old testament sources that have scores of prohibitions- e.g., no meat + dairy, no mixed fabrics- and penalties that include death for things as common as disobeying one's parents. And if you do any research at all, beyond the Pauline privelege, scripturally, there is no divorce, except for adultery. There is no such thing as annulment in Scripture! And yet there is a whole long laundry list of reasons that one can get an annulment today. This is not to say that any of the above mentioned sins are not sins. It is just to make clear that the commandments have been expanded and in the case of annulment modified.
Priest, when you say that Augustine said his change isnt finished yet, do you think he was still sexually active?, or he was at times tempted by sex? these are 2 very different things?
I live in San Diego and appreciate having a Cardinal caring for the poor and marginalized. However, I think Bishop Barron was spot on about the ambiguity of the definition of radical inclusion and that is the biggest concern with regard to the synod. We always love people but cannot condone sins. We would be leading people astray to the road of perdition by giving people false hope, particularly in the area of morality. It is not about weaponizing the Eucharist by telling them that they can't receive the Eucharist unless they are in a state of grace. It is a charitable act to tell them the truth saving their souls for eternity.
My take: nobody says one word about straight unmarried Catholics and what they might be doing, but then bring up and weaponizes the word “disordered” when talking about our brothers and sisters who are lgbtq. I believe that Jesus would welcome everyone to the table, and that His example should be followed.
@@Heart_on_Fire1 You're speaking for Jesus? You know for a fact that Jesus would "ask gays to convert to straight"? :) Sorry, but you're not convincing me. The Gospels show Jesus always accepting of so-called sinners. I mean putting yourself in between a second-class citizen and an angry mob with rocks... tell me that He isn't the Best Shephard.
@@331SVTCobra I merely quote from the Scriptures and fully believe in the traditional values of the Catholic teachings on the sacredness of marriage between a man and woman. That can't change to adapt to today's modern world. It is correct we are all sinners, and we should not judge people based on their sexual orientation. We should, however, tell everyone to strive to live in purity. Gay people don't have to be converted to straight as long as they live chaste lives. Straight people have problems living a chaste life as well, especially with pornography being rampant.
I do speak from my own personal experience of having a profound conversion experience in Medjugorje 15 years ago. The Blessed Sister Lucia of Fatima prophesized, "The final or decisive battle between the Kingdom of God and Satan will be over marriage and family." I was in that battle. God intervened to save my marriage through the intercession of our Blessed Mother. Before my conversion, I led a double life as a practicing Catholic going through the motions for many years while leading a life of promiscuity. Today I can tell you I am full of joy when I can go to Church and receive Jesus in the Eucharist. A priest once told me, "you watch and read about saints, and you will become one." I love reading about saints and understand that saints Paul and Augustine had to go through radical conversions. There is a saying that " no saint is without a sinful past, and no sinner is without a future." God bless and be in peace.
Sex outside of marriage, mortal sin. Abusing ur spouse, mortal sin. Both are mortal sin. I regularly refuse to take communion because I am not in a state of grace. My love for the Eucharist has encouraged me to change my life and live in accord with God’s will. Was I being marginalized because I didn’t take communion? No. I have gone months with out communion - all while being active in the parish and being a part of ministries all while being loved by God and by the Church. Communion is not about being a part of this club. Communion is about taking the lord under your rough in a real way AND giving your self to the Lord - and to do that substantially you must be in a state of Grace.
Jesus broke bread with everyone at His table. If you wish to limit your participation, that is your choice. But for men to tell someone else they are not welcome, that is not following Jesus’ example.
"[W]hat pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be partners with demons…You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons ( I Cor. 10:20-21). Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord (I Cor 11:27). For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself” (I Cor. 11:29).
We must be non-judgmental of sinners, we are all sinners in different ways. But we must also teach the clear truth of mortal sin, and remind everyone that we must repent and live the life that Christ calls us to. The problem is Bishops avoid the sin and repentance message and just want to welcome everyone.
Note that the difference between mortal and venial sins is a construct made up by humans. Put this together with the fact that Jesus was repeatedly frustrated with the apostles for trying to put His message into human terms. The rich man who Jesus told to sell everything and give the money to the poor could not reconcile that instruction with his understanding that he was only rich because God was pleased with him and displeased with the people He made poor. Jesus instructs us to love. Our church is meant to enrich how we love, not to stratify classes of humans.
@@331SVTCobra CCC 1854-64 is useful on this. Your reference to the distinction between mortal and venial sins as 'a construct made up by humans' is a very vague expression and potentially could cover a mass of traditions, practices, beliefs, and doctrines. Do you think your comment can be consistent with CCC 1415-1416? Of course, you might really want a reformation that would sweep away many of the traditional beliefs, and perhaps even many biblical sources as well. You might even think that this would be 'in the spirit' of Vatican II. Perhaps you need to clarify your thinking.
The idea is to welcome everyone, THEN work on the sins. Would you have a workshop for married couples and begin it by lecturing them on the evils of adultery?
"A member of the Russian Parliament, Father Popov the First [a famous 'Revolutionary' priest at the time], appeared on the steps of the Tauride Palace in the middle of the day. He had emerged to bless the revolutionary armed forces: 'Let this day remain in our memory for now and ever shall be!' But the forces of the revolution didn't have much use for his blessing. They didn't flock to kiss the cross he was holding out." (From Solzhenitsyn's "The Red Wheel") Abandoning the teachings that Christ gave us will not change the fact that the vast overwhelming majority of people believe the Catholic Church is an inherently racist, manipulative, mysoginistic, evil organization that is complicit with slavery, genocide, white supremacy, and voilent patriarchy. Activist reformers like Cardinal McElroy think they're both on the same side working together towards greater unity, but the moment he stops being useful to these movements, they will disavow him and tear him to pieces. The reality is that many people in these movements will not come to accept Christ and His Church no matter what we do to cater to them - Jesus himself acknowledged this in the Gospel multiple times. When the Holy Father Pope Francis was newly-elected, he was hailed by many in the church and in the secular world as this figure that would energize the church and bring people back into the pews. 10 years later, the "Francis Effect" turned out to be a mirage. Now, there are less Catholics than ever in the US and more confusion on an unprecedented scale.
@CatholicSamurai There is one, only one person who can 'energise' the Church and it's members, look no further than Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Himself. No amount of watering down of the faith will save anyone. No amount of modernist clergy can save anyone. Beware of appeasing feelgood words, Follow Christ. It's a very hard road, one of suffering, as was His own and the only one that leads us to Heaven. Above all pray.
A true Shepard speaks clearly and doesn’t mince his words. He’s doing what all the modernists do. Keep it vague and destroy the life of the church. I pray for the triumph to happen soon so we won’t have to put up with these false Shepards anymore
So a group of (Catholic Leaders) think they have the authority to vote and change long standing Catholic doctrine because it makes people feel better. They have 40 thousand other religions they can choose from, but the Catholic faith is suppose to the rock that Peter built Jesus's church. It can't be the rock if it changes to accommodate every social issue. The Blessed Mother warns us that we are being led down a path of Perdition by Catholic leaders, this may be what she's talking about.
The Catholic Church has changed over the centuries, that includes Catholic doctrine. I think people need to know a little more about the history and listen to the various voices in this discussion before claiming orthodoxy/unorthodoxy.
Mr McElroy!!! You are reinterpreting the catechism!! shame on you !! Young people are leaving the church and going to traditional Catholic churches. You are only trying to get more numbers!! You are confusing our children!!! Stop it!!
Cardinal McElroy, you are so scared and fear the loss of Young generation. You are there to guide and help the lost to the holiness which Christ expects l. That's your job and you have to be answerable before almighty for this. It is simply ridiculous to change and align & alter churches theology in accordance to pleasing these young kids. What's can be more ridiculous then this
Cardinal is essentially trying to fix a straw man. Who’s saying sexual sin is automatically a mortal sin? Who’s saying the Eucharist is for the perfectly moral? Also, his definition of mortal sin is …not complete at all. How can you take his position seriously then considering these 3 things? I’m fine with have the discussion, but not with those faulty premises.
To go before GOD and claim that you, as a man, even though you are a priest, no better than God, you understand vanity better than God, like God made a mistake when he gave us the word of God,. Like after 2000 years, you have decided that you suddenly have the truth that was never known before. You want to dismantle what is in you want to deny that it is sin. How can you lead people to repentance if you've told them it's not sin . Sex is for creates humanity. Abuse, and miss Use Our sexual activity is reverting God's creation of man. Grace does live progressively in our lives however, if you deny something is a sin, you're not looking for Greece you're looking for approval to remain the sin. From what you say you double talk, but in the end, you really want to do away with sexual sin that it's it's perfectly OK, you're not speaking in a way that you're interested in people leaving that sin you're warning approval for them in that sin . Bishop, you have very little belief in the power of God at work in humanity.
The gay lobby wants to change the constant teaching of the church, so how is openness possible? Does the cardinal believe we should change any of the teachings in order to include the Gay Lobby???
@@331SVTCobramost Catholics saw where it was going. When there are so many problems in the world and in the Church, an exercise in navel gazing and diluting of the faith kept people away. The Church cannot change however much some may wish it to, because Christ does not change.
According to scripture, Jesus included everyone through the grace of conversion and transformation. Approval of sin is inclusion without conversion and transformation. Jesus died to take us out of sin through grace. Approving sin leaves us separated from God and the misery that we remain in separated from God into eternity.
There could be no conceivable objection to someone's receiving Holy Communion despite the fact that they are living as if married to someone of the same sex, or in circumstances where either party to a civil marriage has a former legitimate spouse still living, PROVIDED THAT the Mass is no more than a memorial meal and the Host no more than a piece of blessed bread. Anyone, from the Pope or cardinals downwards, who speaks in favour of an 'inclusiveness' that would permit either of the situations just described must come clean on his beliefs concerning the Mass and the Real Presence in the sense understood traditionally and clarified at the Council of Trent.
When the Bishop cites a Bible verse and then realizes that the verse has to be twisted to accommodate his ideology he then say “well I believe, I think” he return to himself. As the source.
The magisterium the authority of Christ and the Apostles cannot be changed. Solidarity is anti-Catholic. These Bishops are lost. Pray for their conversion to break away form Apostasy.
I was lukewarm Catholic for most of my life until a few years ago because I didn't understand my faith or the Church and what she stood for. I was raised by Catholic materialist parents, love them, but I grew up learning that money and getting a career was more important than God (by their actions) and by everyone else I knew in public schools or in family. CCD was not helpful and I found the way it was taught to be a snooze fest. The people teaching weren't on fire at all, it was just another 1 hour of school for me. I don't remember my confirmation and I remember some kid telling me they found it boring..... THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS NOT BORING!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish God blessed me with a teacher like Harold burke sivers or Fr. Don Calloway...... I get inspired when I hear loving but truthful talks like from Fr. Blount or Fr. Goring... and when I grew in my faith, I noticed I sometimes need a kick in the butt from a rougher priest like Fr. Ripperger or Fr. Larry Richards........ sometimes I need to feel comforted by gentle priests.... but most important is I need the TRUTH.
Bergoglian satanic Jesuits have Ozer0 credibility in the eyes of God and Mother Mary at Quito, Ecuador, La Salette, Fatima have enlightened about most so called catlic religious orders of stinking roots. Wake up catlicks. Nuclear try pasting alive awaits most bergoglian Jesuit ilk.
@@fifamaniac04the most marginalised are the children deprived of their life before they are even born. It is a cancer on the whole wild and a sin we will all pay for.
I cannot believe I am probably sitting in church praying with those who make such hateful comments about LGBTQ people and about Fr MacIlroy I thought the Cardinal was sincere in his words, understanding, intellectually excellent and spiritually caring for the church community. A leader who promotes unity and dialogue.
Marianne, A fellow Christian is writing this. A man who acknowledges his need to convert in order to be saved. There's nothing judgmental about speaking the truth about sin and our need to fight against whatever we're doing that offends God and that, if we don't change, is going to lead us to hell. Jesus, St. Paul, Peter, and the rest of the authors of the New Testament, wrote about this and we all know that they did so, in order to help us to be saved. When we see others living in grave sin and don't try to help them, we're not really loving them, Marianne, and Scriptures tells us that if those people end up in hell because we didn't say anything, we're going to be judged because of this. Ezekiel 33:8: "When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand."
Don't the sacraments of the church provide Catholics a way to receive the Lord's grace? If not following the rules (i.e sinning) no longer made you catholic, you wouldn't be eligible for the sacrament of reconciliation no? I don't think the rules should change because they're difficult to follow, ppl should try harder.
THIS BETRAYAL FROM BISHOP TO THE TEACHINGS GIVEN BY GOD SINCE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS, WLL TAKE MANY PEOPLE TO HELL, AND IT IS WELL KNOWN THAT PRIESTS ARE JUDGED HARDER AS THEY INFLUENCE MANY PEOPLE. I AM SOOOOOO DISSAPOINTED OF WHAT POPE FRANCIS AND THIS BISHOP TOGETHER WITH MANY BISHOPS ARE CAUSING TO OUR CHURCH. THEY ARE A TRUE DISGRACE TO OUR CHURCH.
17:09 this guy is calling for open Communion for people not in a stare of grace. It is against church teaching to receive the Eucharist while in a state of mortal sin (CCC 1385). Heretical and blasphemous this Cardinal
No one is saying we don’t welcome them and love and dialogue with sinners but God wants us to leave sin so if we want to advance in holiness then do so within the church.. however you don’t get to receive what is holy when you are remaining in your sin and worse yet defending it and promoting it.That’s what we have confession is for ..join and be healed grow in faith and love but our ways are not Gods ways and our thoughts are not your thoughts .We are not meant to make new rules and disregard Gods teachings.God have mercy on us.. you can’t change a church to make someone feel comfortable and welcome, not basic foundational teachings, because then you are just enabling their sin, and not helping them to grow holiness…😢
the gospel of jesus christ isn't about 'being good', in my understanding.. it's that jesus suffered, died and rose for the forgivenenss of our sins. and that the holy spirit enables us to be one with the son and the father as they are one.
We must help all persons who are in mortal sin, to help them see the light, to stop immoral acts and to come up to God not God down to them. We are all broken but fornication whether hetero or homosexual is a sin. remember the type of sexual sin: Lust Masturbation Pornography Fornication Rape Same sex attraction becomes evil the moment it physically happens. You have the perpetrator and the victim. These new ages cardinals need to review their faith, they are supposed to be the teachers of the faith.
Confession? Such a laugh. When I tried confession to a human priest I was hurried without hearing my full confession. Priest was obviously bored! I finally confessed at home to my real priest, Jesus. It took an hour on my knees. I was reborn. No one ever fully confessed to a human! Now sin of LGBTQ people is being tolerated! Why be Catholic anymore? It doesn't stand for Christianity. Now I attend a Baptist church.
Which order of religious are known as “dogs”? Dominican? This poor Cardinal is in the hierarchy of our Loved Church in a time where 70% of Catholics in America don’t have the faith in the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our King’s presence on the altar. All he can speak about is synodal way? He is part of the problem. Bishop, please vacate your positions and pray with the dogs. For your soul. May you leave and convert.
@@BobBKooenabio that’s alright, we will pray for your conversion. Maybe obey the church for a while. Read a lot about Christ and those who have obeyed Him for 2 Thousand years. Then you can confess to a priest. That, or go be protestant until you gain understanding
Maybe this is why God allowed the great schism on such trivial things like the fililoque so that if one side was rotting the Church could be preserved and continue. I know many, myself included, who are considering Eastern Orthodoxy. Viva Cristo Rey!
God "allowed" the Great Schism just as He "allowed" angels to become demons. It's evil that allows itself to happen, God works with it to have a greater good come out of it. Pax Christi
Confession needed before Eucharist. You cannot teach us that some sexual offense is not mortal. You, Cardinal are being ambiguous and quoting St Augustine St Peter and Christ with distortions. They never rxpected perfection but striving for truth! Judgementalism should not be mistaken for excusing sin!
Does the Catholic leadership just not like God anymore? You can't call the Lord a liar and seriously believe you worship him. It sounds to me like Rome believes God worships them. How foolish.
