Maybe divided is better. Im not too anxious to establish some world government that could have the potential to become a world dictatorship over night if the wrong person gets in. No one deserves that much power and really your thinking is just flawed. Its never going to happen, countries will always exist.
Isaac Gunn As if your country shits ice cream. Certainly not my favorite flavor, banana pistachio to be exact. America wasn't so divided when we sent help so that the Russians could fend off Nazi Germany in Stalingrad, or during D-Day when we sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives for the sake of winning back Europe from Hitler's grasp. We Are All One People. You say we are divided yet you generalize all americans as one thing and base what you know about us on war films and CNN Talk about a fucking hypocrite
The Duality of Man, The Jungian Thing: Human beings are savage and civilized, kind and cruel, noble and deranged. You should embrace these contradictions.
What is savage? People who live in the bush, and don't have modern technology? Or people who live in cities, believe in the Christian God and use him as justification for war and imperialism, and built technology for war? Who is civilized? People who value community, family, the land and water, taking only what they need, and have their own unwritten laws that are decided and enforced collectively? Or people who live in cities, value the responsibility of the individual, superiority over other men and nature, and written laws decided and enforced by the power of a small group? Everything is contradictory. Someone who is trying to be kind, it may seem noble, but its actually cruel. Someone being cruel may think they're civilized and doing something noble. When we write laws to protect people, it contradicts the values of one group, and they see it as cruelty.
Man has the ability to treat his sons with the kindness of Jesus Christ himself and also the ability to laugh while shooting women and children that he views as the enemy. Having both of these traits makes him human.
Jesus Christ told us to love thy neighbor as thyself. He also said to forgive 77 times, even people who have trespassed against you. Yes man has an evil nature, but by being taught by God, we overcome that sin nature by refusing to do what the flesh does and simply obey God's methods.
It's even more funnier how the colonel embodies this duality himself by ordering the Joker to kill the enemies of America while also talking about making peace in Vietnam and it's terrifying how he doesn't seem aware of his contradiction
Right, the "peace craze" is the impediment to "the big win," which we can imagine is American world domination. "Inside every g**k there is an American trying to get out."
Its kind of the Joker thing, he stands out and is questioned by his superiors, he gets flippant but is respected for his honesty and bravery in the end.
The scene was meant to show how the military has an answer to everything. Joker’s explanation, while not especially difficult to comprehend, went clear over Col. Dullard's head. Under ordinary circumstances, the colonel might have felt embarrassed by his lack of knowledge, but in a war zone he is superior, and hence smarter, than any enlisted man - even when he's not.
+Erica2Lives I dont know though, the colonel is pretty smart with words too. It's just that his duality of man is restricted to beeing an enemy or an allie.
I felt like the Colonel had probably met a number of people like Joker on duty, military personnel who weren't on the front lines. He recognised the pretentious tone and the purposely condescending irony that Joker was showcasing here and called him out on it. I think the Colonel probably recognised Joker hadn't been in the field and went easy on him. Despite their personal feelings, above all else once in the field of battle, your allegiance to country and fellow soldiers is the only thing that matters. That's how I would like to think Kubrick intended this scene to show.
Duality seems to be the theme of this entire movie and Joker the guide. Gomer Pyle and Animal Mother, Jokers Born to kill and Peace symbol and then the Colonel and Hartman (used a similar phrase in this clip)
skornie123 You might not believe it but under fire, Animal mother here is one of the finest human beings............all he needs is someone to throw hand grenades at him for the rest of his life!
ToonandBBfan If I Im gonna get my balls blown of for a word, my word is "poontang". But you should better get your ass and head wired together before I take a giant shit on you. Its a hardball world out there TonnandBBfan, we gotta keep our heads before this youtube-comment-craze blows over.
I remember sir. I still don't understand the madness of that place; the cold, the loneliness, our commander running off in the middle of a blizzard to fight a goddamn yeti. What the hell were we doing out there?
I’ll never understand it. I was an E5 when I separated from the Army. These Colonels are so weird. They’re NEVER normal people. That’s not to say they’re bad people-just weird, quirky, etc. Actor nailed it.
I think it's because of their responsibilities. Colonels are usually the highest commander that will talk to a soldier. Generals I suppose only give orders to other officers. This scene is brilliant because the colonel notices the button, then proceeds to control the soldier . That's all. Win-win. The colonel establishes discipline and the soldier feels that his ass got saved. Military command and brainwashing is an ancient art...
@@TheArtimusMaximus Not necessarily. West Point grads VS. Shake and Bake OCS grads: which do you think will be slated for advancement and which one gets considered last on promotion boards? Not everybody is equal in the eyes of the military
@@kevinstachovak8842 Yeah, I have trouble saluting OCS 2nd LTs, but respect the West Point LTs. They earned their officer status rather than having some shitty degree they couldn't get a job with.
Ahh! The dogs of War !!! :-) Its hell getting shot at and shooting other people. This guy reminds me of a Col. I once knew, :-) Hi ! Hope you're doing well , I am headed for dreamland where I hope not to dream about this, :-) You have a good rest of the week my Friend. Much love, peace, and happiness to you and yours,□□□□♡♡♡♡⊙⊙●●zzzzzxxzzz
I’ve brought up this scene during an English class. My teacher who’d also watched the movie, asked about the potential symbolism I was describing. Joker has two conflicting thoughts, one as a marine, one as an individual person. His mind is in the kill kill kill mindset, hence the born to kill on his helmet. On the other hand, it’s his moral values that are against this, hence the peace button on his armor. Inside, he values peace. This conflict of mindsets was also present during the Virgin Mary scene back in boot camp.
Anyone that went home and watched this for the 1st time afterwards definitely thought differently of you the next day. Especially, what’s coming outta schools these days. 😂
Also, just fyi, when Joker later kills the enemy sniper, his peace button slowly disappears out of the camera shot. By the time Joker fires his weapon, the peace button is gone.
I love the Joker analytical way of thinking. He outsmarts everyone he confronts during the whole movie. He is witted, sarcastic and gets the full picture. Until he kills that young girl, that's when he really became a "Marine" in the sense this film is trying to tell us. When he killed that girl he became just like Sgt. Hartman, Animal Mother, Pvt. Pyle, Cowboy, his newspaper Liutenent and this Coronel right here...
Notably, Joker keeps the pin afterward even though the obviously disapproving colonel could have ordered him to remove it. The colonel didn’t grasp the pin’s symbolism, but he still did a decent thing for Joker by tolerating something he didn’t understand.
Joker stated earlier in the film he's an atheist. Which adds to the duality of man aspect as Jokes doesn't recognize the existence of a higher power but has to obey one as if they were.
This is the most important scene in the film,and it's actually become my favorite.The way the scene starts grim and serious,then shifts to dark comedy is brilliant.That's how both parts of the film shift in tone.Just when you think it get's to serious,kubrick switches up with morbid humor or or perverse irony.Think of the end of boot camp,going to ''these boots are made for walking''.Or the long drawn out dramatic conclusion with the sniper,giving way to the absurd mickey mouse march.
In the novel, this gets him kicked out of the press corps, which is why it's right after this he starts shadowing Animal Mother's squad; the film did away with that so that Kubrick could have him filming and interviewing them.
And weirdly in the book it has like 2 sentences that also imply that the commanding officer was a vampire who was hauling around a marine to feed off of and joker threatens him with a “wooden bayonet”. I think it might have been unreliable narration.
@@Jjb-gk4ce "Come with me, Marine," says the poge colonel, putting the little green notebook back into his pocket. "I want to show you something." I step over to the jeep. The poge colonel pauses for dramatic effect, then pulls a poncho off a lump on the back seat. The lump is a Marine lance corporal in the fetal position. In the lance corporal's neck are punctures--many, many of them. The poge colonel grins, bares his vampire fangs, takes step toward me. I punch him in the chest with my wooden bayonet. He freezes. He looks down at the wooden bayonet. He looks at the deck, then at the sky. Suddenly his wristwatch is very interesting. "I...uh...I've got no more time to waste on this unprofitable encounter...and get a haircut!" From pg 49 of the Short Timers PDF
+off topic its not really a win because the us didnt have anything to do with the fall of the soviet union, if you have to call it something, we won by default
great scene because the visuals are a mirror to the dialogue... the duality of man is lying in an open-pit mass-grave right behind them... a bunch of local civilians massacred and labeled as enemy combatants so that the US can maintain their inflated VC bodycount... brilliant film on so many levels
Even though your comment is 4 years old I'd like to point out something minor. In the movie these aren't implied to be civilians killed by the Americans, but Vietnamese civilians killed by North Vietnamese forces in Hue (which did happen). However it's placed right *after* the scene where the chopper gunner kills a bunch of civilians, which *is* referencing the inflation of US body counts through civilians killed. Their placement together is likely deliberate. The supposedly evil north Vietnamese army's massacre of civilians is given attention and propagandized by the Americans (this scene has the US press corps taking photos) but when the Americans also commit atrocities, they are ignored.
Bad things occur when that happens. Even worse is answering to the Sergeant Major. All fear him even more than the Commanding Officer. Even the CO treads lightly around the Sergeant Major.
One thing I noticed that was in this scene was that the Peace sign was on his left side, where the heart it, meanwhile the "Born to Kill" is on his helmet, where is mind is. I always thought that this sort of showed the duality of man as well, when we thing of reason and logic, and joker has been taught the kill, kill, kill, mindset, thus the "Born to kill" on his helmet or his "mind" but as a human and an individual, he has morals and feelings that keep him human and , thus the peace sign on his jacket or his "Heart".
"Son ALL I've ever asked of my marines is for them to obey my orders as they would the word of God. " Yeah that's not asking too much or anything . . .
"Inside every 'gook,' there is an American trying to get out." Speaking as an Asian who grew up in Asia, that's sadly true. In public, they act all independent and spit on US Imperialism, but behind closed doors, they want to live like 1950s Americans and enjoy all that American civilization offers to its people. That's why nations like Taiwan, Japan, the Philippines, and ironically enough, even Vietnam, are more American than America is now.
You know Ho Chi Minh never fully embraced communism. Right after ww2 he approached the United States again hoping to help Vietnam become independent from the U.S. regardless of whether they are communist or democratic. However the United States ignored them. But if they didn't the whole Vietnam war would've been avoided.
What a hogwash! An american inside every 'gook'? Where did that idiot colonel get that idea? From local A-hole academy? No wonder USA lost the Vietnam war, the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan - because they didn't learn a thing from Vietnam.
I don't see problem with being dangerous and pieceful at the same time. If you are capable of being violent and choosing not to be. It just shows level of morality.
Bruce Boa was superb. Strangely I was previously watching him doing the Wardolf salad clip in Fawlty Towers (a bit more lighthearted lol) but then came on to FMJ as it's one of favourite movies. Thanks for sharing.
I think a lot of people are underestimating the officer in this scene. This isn't about intelligence, this scene is about a clash of values. The pogue colonel's silent reaction to "The Jungian Thing" and flippant attitude toward psychiatry are representative of the military's response to psychiatric concerns: "That's stupid." Plus, one of the military's biggest obstacles at the time was the growing movement back home against the war, and Joker's peace symbol marked him as sympathetic toward that movement. It's hardly any surprise that someone in the officer's position would confront such a soldier, and Joker's response hardly mattered. He was gonna get that same lecture either way.
Joker's statement about the duality of man is what this movie is all about. That one line summarizes the entire theme of the film. When you watch the film from that point of view - duality - you will see hundreds of examples of it. Such an awesome movie.
Yeah when the drill sergeant mentions the two Marines who used their power for evil instead of good. Charles Whitman and Lee Harvey Oswald. Private Pile was a good boy and they beat the evil into him. When they mercy shot the sniper at the end. First Joker hated her, then felt sorry for her.
What prevented him from even being nominated was that Lou Gossett won the previous year for playing a Marine DI (whom Ermey worked with). Besides, Sean Connery won for his role in The Untouchables, I think we can all be on board with that one.
Whole opening is duality of man when they are interviewing first officer "Everybody turned out, got shot" *Pauses, turns and smiles for camera* "Some they buried alive" *Pauses, turns and smiles for camera*
My take is this scene is in line with general theme of transformation and death and rebirth. The transformation from pacifist writer to killer. The Colonel knows what the duality of man means, but you can’t hold those two thoughts, killer and pacifist,in your head at the same time. Come “on board” be reborn. The theme is all over this movie. Private Pyle is “born again hard” dies and is reborn as “Animal Mother” Hartmann is killed because there is no need for him anymore. Pyle IS a killer his job is done...the recruits are salty... in the book the short timers Hartmann (Gerheim) says to Pyle as he’s dying “I’m proud of you” Joker’s transformation is complete at the end he’s able to kill the sniper. He’s reborn he was “Born to Kill”
I think this scene sums up the whole movie for me. In Kubricks movie there's always a couple of scenes or a couple of lines that are completely out of left field. For example in the Shining there's the bathroom scene where Grady drops the N bomb out of no where. Here Joker quotes fucking Carl Jung in the middle of a mass grave in Vietman!!! I think Joker represents the duality of man. Born to kill vs the peace symbol. He has a few conversations with Hartman concerning war and killing and then at the end of training he goes into journalism. At the end of the movie he kills the 12 year old sniper point blank. Did he kill her out of vengeance? Did he kill her to put her out of her misery because she was going to die anyway? We don't know. Kubrick brings up all these questions that we have to answer for ourselves.
My favourite scene from the movie. During the brief pause, I reckon the Colonel was thinking along the lines of "Oh fuck. He's given me a straight answer to a straight question and he didn't sound like he was being a smartass but I have no idea WTF he's talking about...." so he just starts barking cliches at Joker.
he obviously kills her to put her out of her misery. you can hear her saying "shoot me" and he says something like "we cant just leave her here". So in other words, even though he's a trained killer, he takes no joy from it but in the end is forced to essentially execute a wounded enemy soldier out of compassion.
"Another great example of a war film showing the wider disconnect. Joker gives the colonel a philosophical answer, the colonel has a brain freeze..." kind of. Joker actually gave him a clever excuse, and the colonel decides not to tear him a new asshole.
When I first watched this, (I must have been about 13) I agreed with the colonel. I didn’t understand how someone could believe they were born to kill others while also wanting peace. Now whenever I rewatch this movie, I understand.
Anyone else laugh out loud at the awkward pause after the Carl Jung reference?...."WHO'S SIDE ARE YOU ON? WHY DON'T YOU JUMP ON THE TEAM AND COME IN FOR THE BIG WIN!?"
First off, that's a Colonel. Secondly, the colonel knew exactly what Joker was talking about. That's why he gave Joker the answer he did, about why the United States are in Vietnam and what he expects of his men. Third, Joker isn't smarter than the Colonel. He might be very well read, but you can imagine the Colonel probably is as well. They are two different men with two different philosophies.
The first time I saw this movie I thought, "WTF?" 'Thought it was bizarre and really didn't live up to my expectations of what a war movie was supposed to be ... and the ending, just weird. And the more that I thought about it, I'd watch it a second, a third, and a fourth time (because I'm slow); but Kubrick was f'ing brilliant. Of course the ending bizarre as well as some of the other parts. I've been to war since watching this film. 'Seen it up close, 'seen it from a lotta different angles and war is just bizarre ... it's insane. And it's so funny (... it's sick) what some people think back home in the U.S., as a goodly sum of them gobble up every little piece of BS the MSM feeds them on the battle that rages. 'Just freaking crazy.
@@stopglobalswarming "How about getting with the program?.. Why don't jump you on the team and come on in for the big win?" Even the officers talk about it like football.
Same thing happens near the end of the film: peace button disappears from camera view when (spoiler alert) Joker raises his arm to shoot the injured Viet Cong sniper.
Put me in mind of General Mickey Mouse at an air cav camp near Pleiku in the Highlands. I slept at the hangar to be on-call for single ship Cobra gunship mission if anyone was in need of some mini-gun and rocket action. General Mouse called for an inspection formation of the troops at the flight line. When he got to me, the action started. He asked me why I did not shave (we usually went back to our hootch to shower and have the day off after spending a night at the hangers), why my boots were not spit-shined (we wore nomex flight suits and never put flammable boot polish on out boots), why my mustache was not regulation (it went past the corners of my mouth) and why I didn't have a regulation haircut (I did not trust the Vietnamese barbers with straight razors). That was a turning point for me. In lieu of making it a career, I looked for ways to get out of my indefinite commitment I took to go to Cobra school in the US. He was the type of commander who got his men killed. When we were assigned missions, we were issued side arms and I still had mine strapped on. As he was chewing me out I stared holes in his eyes with thoughts of taking him out then and there. My anger was palpable. When he asked what I was going to do about it, I told him, "What are you going to do, send me to Vietnam?". I risked my ass daily and his star did not intimidate me in the least. At least the vc had reason to kill me.
I saw this movie long before I went into the military. And I thought it was bizarre, like "what kind of lower enlisted Marine (or solider) would be talking about "the duality of man, the Jungian thing," or even have that kind of vocabulary?" Then I grew up, went to college, did ROTC, became an officer myself, and realized that while this is not exactly the majority of soldiers, there are TONS of lower enlisted that had all kinds of deeper knowledge than I did about things like philosophy, engineering, finance, etc. It's wild to go back to it now. Also wild to realize I'm commenting on a 15-year-old video of a 35-year-old movie.
The colonel's not dumb, like some other commenters here are saying. He's probably not familiar with Jungian psychological models, but he was smart enough to see the contradiction in Joker's garb and recognize that THAT was a protest. That he was able to figure out that peace symbol + born to kill is a deeper protest than simply wearing a peace symbol is a sign that he understood the subtext. So no, the colonel wasn't some moron.
the Colonel is the perfect example of the disaster and thinking that led to our involvement. How I dreaded those days. Due to circumstance and Providence set in motion years before the build up I didnt have to serve Yet many of my brothers had to and did and were injured and never came home alive. They had little choice, they saw none . I honor those men .
I did the same thing when on Exercise in Australia. I got some electrical tape and made a similar sign on the back of my helmet, when a crusty old warrant officer pulled me up on it, I said it was a Mercedes symbol. He told me 'get rid of it' :D
So my dad was in nam. He was a drill Sargent from 60 to 65 then went till 71. I one day came home in 1991 with a tie die t shirt playing some 70s rock n roll music. I got a hella beat down. Looking back I probably needed it but the music was kick ass
I think it's funny how the Colonel said that all he asks of his marines is that they obey orders "like the word of God", 'cause its kinda implied that Joker was an Atheist. Hartman: Do you believe in the Virgin Mary? Joker: Sir no sir! Guess Joker was real chill with following orders for a reason :P
You know, I always just assumed he said that because he was Jewish. I just looked for references to support that and couldn't easily find any. I guess he might have been an atheist.
Anger , serious anger , hatred . Ahhh , you've probably heard the stories about what American soldiers / Marines did during WWII . Some seriously grim , dark stuff . A bunch of turned up side down guys . I think others are certainly capable from say Europe , Canada , Australia , South America of doing stuff like this also . Somehow though , we are really sick fuckheads . Although nothing is really odd to see others from Euro type areas do shit like this , though they have a slightly diff mindset and view of history to go this far . U can't speak for these others but surely it passed their minds during these episodes to take revenge of sorts , to just go off . I'd say to that Americans ( us ) were possibly treated in some instances a slight bit or more harshly than others . We are the Americans , the Cowboys , Gangters etc etc etc. So it was neccessary to ' exact ' PUNSHMENT of sorts to ' put the Yankee in their place ' . Don't think it worked ( ha ha ) . Will say though , go look at the prison systems of the English , French , Spanish abroad , it was medievel . Than again look at the atrocities of both sides during the Civil War . The South was harsher by far but there had to be instances of Northern Hostility that was derranged also .
SSAB P, man where did you get all of this bunk??? The ones buried alive were South Vietnamese, who the Viet Cong wanted dead. So that is how they killed them. SOP for the Viet Cong/NVA. SMH
