Very solid review Neil! I like this van a lot and like the large array of options you can piece together to make this van truly exceptional. The fact you can go propane-less is fantastic. The price point is really solid even with adding the lithium upgrade options. The warranty is better than the manufacturers that charge 170 K but give you 1 year. I love the twin bed option a lot (in other vans as well). This has moved onto my top 5 list. Keep up the solid reviews!
I love the interior. Reminds me of a Sees candy store.... Walnut burl is beautiful, too. Nothing can ever be too elegant or beautiful, IMO. As a 5'2 munchkin I would love this.
Although with options this can become very expensive, very quickly if you're not careful. At least your not being forced to buy a load of things that lumped together, just to get a few things you do want. Of course it is not just manufacturers in this industry which are doing this, it seems to be a popular technique all round, forcing you to compromise on specs, but then also having to potentially pay more for other things you do need as well, or not being to be able to get them at all. But I do like the understated look of this one, with the electrically lift able bed, could have a lot of day-to-day daily driver uses.
fleetwood is offering some interesting options like the lift bed and i like the roof rack system as well. it looks cool and is very functional. stop the video and take a good look at it. the bed itself is above the air conditioner unit!
John, you sound like you might like the way Advanced RV ( ru-vid.com/show-UCpP1y-e7xQzD8S0bQaIdgZw ) options out their coaches just like Burger King. Have it your way! You get only the things you want, and don't get the things you don't want.
Great review as usual, Neil! Thank you!! Lets compare some prices: Fleetwood LP Gas 2.5K Generator - $7493 (look at the markup here. No wonder they want to make this an option for 2020! Onan Cummins LP Gas 2.5K Generator $2669 (in 2020) Fleetwood 100 Amp Hr Lithium Battery $4500 (more than 600% increase in price) Amazon 100 Amp Hr Lithium Battery $749 (highest runs around $900) They cannot just swap out Lithium for Lead Acid house batteries. In most RVs you have a isolator connection to house batteries from engine battery. In case engine battery is dead, you can do a one way recharge from house batteries. This necessitates that both are the same battery type. If you switch to Lithium, you have to disconnect the isolator and you lose this functionality. Not a big deal as you can carry a jumper battery on board but there you are. I can do an entire custom conversion for $22K! Not just the battery system. What a ripoff. Get real Fleetwood.
One of my favorite looking vans so far, especially in the darker exterior color. Wish it had a little more head room inside seeing that I am also 6’1” and also leaning toward the cassette type toilet. Still years from buying one just thought I’d comment anyways. Nice review as always.
Well done review. My issue with all RV's built on the Pro master chassis remains the same, cockpit comfort for taller drivers. I really wanted to like the Promaster to avoid buying a diesel engine but every time I test drove one, neither my wife nor I could find a comfortable driving position.
Hi, Neil, thanks for this review. I really like this overall, especially the option to go propane-less. But basically it's a no go due to the height restrictions; both the bed (length) and inside cabin height are not generous enough for us. Thanks for always making height (and width) considerations very clear and demonstrating it. This is why I always look forward to your videos - I know you will include that essential info. Thanks again!
The prices of the add-on optional features are just over-the-top! The rear seating area - I really like the design of the upholstery, it’s beautiful - desperately needs seat belts - the lack of them is a dealbreaker for me.
Super video Neil, as usual. I love the overlay text specs in your videos. Thanks for including the multiple tall people consideration comments in this review. This would be a “shortlist” for me except I’m 6’5”. (I need a tall list.). Thanks for doing such high quality reviews with great specs and pricing.
The bed lift is definitely attractive. Although the interior is beautiful, the dark color makes the small, short space feel even smaller. Change the residential doorknob out. I envision bruising & catching! As a single, shorter female, this would almost be perfect. I like the upgrade options.
Thanks for the great review (again!) of the new IROK, esp bed lengths as I could not find on-line, or in brochure. Q - what makes you call it a "luxury" Class B CV? Like Mary, I'd like to see a multi-comparison of vans this size w/similar attributes 3-4 side-by-side?). Most specifically the Travato K vs the FW IROK.
hi there . the fit and finish it pretty high with the maybach type seating and the hand rubbed burl wood. built quality is also on the higher end though not as high as pleasureway. higher than say roadtrek and hymer.
I would make a note to self: People looking at your fine videos and do not think about insulation.... I live in McAllen Texas with heat index is 106F .... I am interested in coaches ... any ..... that understand that these vehicles may be used in and around Texas beaches and federal parks and I can assure you air conditioning is important and a word or two about insulation would help .... also keep in mind if outside is 100+ then even with venting it is the same inside and if the coach is stapled cabinets or laminated surfaces ...... well short lives..... just like people. Thanks for your kind attention
Very interesting review Neil. You stated down below . . . Ultramobility 5 hours ago "quality was okay. i'd put it above hymer/roadtrek but below pleasureway. . . ." You didn't mention anything about "staples" as you did in the mini-review. Do you have an opinion on that point?
i didn't mention it because i don't have enough info. i saw staples but they didn't look like stick framing and staples so it is hard to know what those staples are used for and why they are there. there may be a good reason and i reached out to Fleetwood and they said they would investigate and get back to me but they didn't before the video was cut.
@@Ultramobility - Thanks for the objective report Neil. Please let us know if they return the call about the staples. Will be interesting to hear what they have to say. The coach is very attractive on the surface and has desirable options to go all electric, which I really like..
Thanks for another good review. You have become our "go to" reviewer. Like the new shortlist idea and pics of you actually lying down on the beds and on the toilet for us to have a better idea of sizes. Did you have a feel for the comfort level of the beds? I presume most of these beds need some sort of mattress pad to make them truly comfortable?
I was surprised to hear you say "I appreciate these special touches" in reference to the residential aluminum door knob on the bathroom door. This is sure is a black and blue mark on the ol' hip every time you bang into this knob. This is one area where stealth is absolutely needed.
well i didn't run into it so that's a good sign. generally if i run into something like that once during the review then it's likely that people will run into it all the time.
Thank you for this review.... we are decided between this and the lexor and i'm tall and you sitting the back with the headroom shows that I wouldn't fit so its definitely the pleasure way!
I was just about to buy this rig, but then realized the seating area in the back is too small! I'm 6'0 and my head for sure would be hitting the cabinets.
Nice review, wish it had lighter inside cabinets to make it feel more spacious.Thanks for your efforts on reviews and taking time to comment on replies!!!
Neil - I would love a video (maybe you have done one and I just missed it) on the advantages/disadvantages on the two different rear seating layouts on many of these Class B vans. The twin bed vs the full rear lounge type thing. I just can't decide which one would be best for what I want to do. But, maybe that's just as simple as getting in them and experiencing them first hand? Regardless, love your videos. Thanks for all the work you put into them.
it is a personal preference. the two sofas facing each other have the advantage that they generally have no seams in them like a bench sofa across the back does when it is down. the advantage of the bench sofa is that its a better lounge. if you can find a great bench sofa where you don't feel the seams when it is laid down as a bed then that's the best of both worlds.
As a single lady I appreciate the twin bed configuration, however, as a person who prefers home cooking versus restaurant food the kitchen area without any fold outs is not appealing. The hall way between the bath and kitchen area appears to be very narrow also. Thank you for sharing your experience and opinion regarding today's van options.
glad you find my reviews helpful. I include things like the number of extensions and aisle width because no one else talks about this stuff on RU-vid. People need to know. thanks for watching!
I would love this coach if it were on the Sprinter chassis, but the Promaster is too small and causes the interior to be too cramped. The bed isn't even long enough for many people. That said, I love the upscale trimmings and the fact that there's an all electric setup available.
Would love a complete Tofino review. Have to confess a bit of confusion on the different fridge. Also, some of the comments about driving the ProMaster have proved the same for me. I suspect the van was built for a much larger person. For a vehicle that is meant for traveling the country, ease of driving needs to be paramount...thx!
Fantastic review Sir. XD As you know I am looking to Upgrade from my Revel and I sold my 4 Winds to my sister & brother-in-law. Yeah!! Being 5'2 1/4 inch,,hahaha the Ram chassis works well for me along with a shorter ceiling. This is a sharp vehicle and anyone familiar with the RV Ind,, will know that Fleetwood stands for quality and understated elegance. This Unit has a tasteful interior decor which I have been nagging about,, I know.;) I Luv the new textured design of the lounge area (Prefer the bench seating). Perfect for 1 -2 under average height person/people and it has the option of being "Propane-less" luv it.!! I have been at a cross-roads between the Coachman Crossfit or the PW Tofino,, but your review of this vehicle had so many positive attributes,,(for me:) that cannot be overlooked. Need to check warranty info. and if it has Duel wheels in back,, very important for a smooth and stable ride.but Wow,, you've just thrown a a really handy monkey wrench into the works. lol
@@Judy-cm6kp Hi,, I was so excited when the Revel came out. Finally,, an RV 4X4 vehicle with off road capabilities on a well made sturdy MB Chassis,,,so I thought,, b/c the "Unknowns" aren't found out until your actually in it and experiencing what your rv can do or handle. For me,, the list of negativity is extensive accompanied by being on a Diesel Chassis limits your range of back-road travels. Small towns/villages do-not carry diesel fuel and Mechanics wont touch,, so you are at the mercy of an MB service attendant to reach you wherever you are,, and the time laps depending on where you are and how close or far an MB dealership can be located,,in my case was a 3 day wait and then given attitude once arriving bc of where I was. Duh,, the vehicle was supposed to be made for kicking butt,, well it woosed out on it's maiden voyage. The Bilge pump,,was a major factor also. I had it fixed (2 flat tires) and have it in storage bc it doesn't fit in the garage or my car port. This was my experience,, not everyone will experience the same,, but anything on an MB Chassis or runs on diesel fuel,, for me,,is flying a Jolly Roger Flag. ;) P.s. I am not knocking Winnebago RV line or products. They are a top of the line IND.,, but everyone hits a bump in the road at some point.
Thanks, you have convinced me. A neighbor of mine mentioned RoadTrek going to gas in 2020. I really don't want a diesel and have heard it's difficult to get MB service in areas. I too like the out of the way places.
@@Judy-cm6kp Your welcome and glad I was able to help:) To be fare,, MB will also be coming out with a gas Chassis in 2020,, but it's a first for them,, so it will be in a trial stage and well,,besides that,, MB left me in a sour state. There are such lovely little towns, scenery, architecture,,, that we miss by having to stay on the main highways. A gas Chevy, Ram or Ford chassis I find will offer no problems to any mechanic anywhere,, all are friendly, helpful, knowledgeable and get you on your way promptly & safely.:)
Thank you for a wonderful review. Do the heated tanks mean you can use it in the winter? I currently have a 2017 Ascent and wanted to retro fit with tank heaters but PW dealer explained that wasn't a good option.
yes it's just simple warming pads attached to the underside of the tanks. not sure why the PW said it wasn't a good option. you can get them installed aftermarket pretty inexpensively. it doesn't mean you can use in the winter. your pipes on your ascent are still exposed to the outside and will freeze below 32f.
Great review! Two quick questions: (1) Does the couch (non-twin) option have seatbelts! And (2) with the drop-down bed option is there a lounge underneath? Or does the drop-down convert to a bed? Thanks for the great review - definitely shortlisting this van, though once options are added it's well within the price range of comparable Class B's.
Color, I'm 6'3" so this is a coach in which I would have to personally sit and move around in to see if I fit. Other than the head room standing and sitting, I like it alot.
Philip Robins ... my thoughts exactly. This unit is coming close to my wants and wishes except for the bed length, shower headroom, and interior height. I wonder how other builders using the same Pro-Master shell can achieve decent headroom?
A very nice machine.. However, I would not consider this because of the bathroom.. For my wife and I ..a dry ,larger bathroom is a must! Too bad really.. this one has everything else we like.
This looks suspiciously similar to the Midwest Auto Design’s Legend. Is it possible that Fleetwood and MAD have an agreement to market this with van jointly?
Mary - Check out the YT channel 'From She to He' (from a favorite poem stanza according to Debbie), as they have an Ascent and provide great reviews and content.
Great review as always Neil. Seems like a very nice introduction class B. It's always nice to have another option in the Class B category. Do you think the restricted refrigerator size would be a deal breaker for long trips? Also, is the head room from the bottom of the AC unit or the ceiling itself? How do you like the separated framed cabinets (looks similar to the Midwest RV models), as it seems a bit inefficient, storage wise. Does the shower door handle stick out too much? Sorry for all the questions, just some of the things I noticed.
you'd have to try the fridge out for yourself. for me personally i don't need a huge refrigerator. i had that - 6 cu.ft. in my last rv and most of the time it sat empty. generally height is measured from the bottom of the ac unit but i'd have to verify if that's the case here. the IROK is built by Midwest. i prefer the open cabinets but i understand that these are water tight!
Hi Neil. Great review. I'm really looking forward to checking one of these out with the lift bed. I really think that's a great feature. Now if Ram would only come out with a AWD version of the Promaster. That will help in a lot of ways. Thanks again.
I agree, AWD is very desirable and hopefully will become more common, like lithium. It's not all about boulder hopping, but is about getting out of tricky condition roads. You don't want to be stuck out in the middle of the forest after a rain.
Great job, as always, Neil. With the power drop down bed, it looks like the overhead storage is modified, to allow for the bed in the up position. Are the sizes of the bins the same, but without doors?
I don’t understand something, If you don’t have The traditional generator but opt for the under the hood generator how does that work? Is the V6 engine under the hood the generator?
@@Ultramobility I checked also & not only is there no "Tilt" but it doesn't have power pedals either. I'm a lounge driver Neil,, seat back,, power pedals up and tilt down. nor does the PW Tofino have power pedals but it has a tilt/Tel wheel. Looks like the 2019 Coachman Crossfit 22 C may be the final choice but do not like the Marine sink,, but can deal. I am looking forward to your review of the Coachman Crossfit RV 22 C,, hope it's soon, like before Christmas if possible? Pretty Please.:) The Closest dealer from Chicago is in Oregon.:/ ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EfZZQ_BJEFU.html
Hi Lynn. Good news is that I’ve done the video shoot for the CrossFit 22c. the bad news is that in recent polling viewers have put it down lower on the list but I’m hoping to have it done before Christmas for you!
@@Ultramobility Hi back.:),, Shoot,,I missed that chat,,but am happy to hear I'll get to see the video with specific points of interest laid out in black/white. I'll be notified.!! Thanks for letting me know Neil. Yay. hahahaha
Pretty fancy looking for a good price. What did you think about the sofa cushions as a *mattress* ? Thick enough ? Any memory foam in there ? And any impressions about overall build quality ?
Hey Neil :), well you almost got thinking about it but, nope. PW Lexor TS is more open bigger fridge, window in the bigger bathroom. I do like the air conditioner and the drop down bed though. Nice review good looking rig all n all. Thanks :)
Great review Neil! I am still waiting for the "perfect" one. I like the twin bed Wonder but hubby (diesel tech) won't take the plunge due to engine. In the mean time we pull our 32ft Blackstone travel trailer with his approved diesel truck engine! I don't have the skill level to take off and go. In the meantime, I am still on the hunt for a class B so I'll be watching!
Honestly it was like listening to a foreign language. I don't know the terms you listed. I know he was not impressed with the engine. I could ask but then I would have to painfully listen again. I am sure many folks have great experience with them. If I were the only one making the choice, I would be answering this from my new Unity Wonder!
Nice review. Please compare this van to the PW Lexor. When equipped compareably, the prices are similiar. You didn't mention that the cabinets, although attractive, are stapled. I would be concerned with the quality of a Fleetwood proud t.
i'd like to get your take on the pleasure way xlmb. including the 2019 changes. i'm a little sad because it seems they've gotten rid of the cherry wood finishes :( word on the street is that they have one at the happy daze in sacramento. i may drive up to see it soon, but i'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
I agree about the cherry wood finishes. Just when I wanted to see a Plateau FL in the pale gold color with the dark cherry ("copper") finish like Neil's Ascent, they dropped it. I asked Grant at Pleasure-Way, and was given the brush-off. Now they have a choice of two dull colors in and out. I get more choices with the Galleria 24A from Coachmen, including better technology, for less money... but Coachmen only offers a One-year warranty.
So Neil, on the drop down bed, you have no living room space in the back? So you would need to make your own with the bed up.....lawn chairs and such? Also the bed looks like a full mattress and full size?
yes. my engineering side agrees although to be fair in automotive circle both are used interchangeably but you're right technically it should be pound-feet and i'll change that moving forward.
Watched the video again, and have a couple more questions: first of all, those "cupholders" in the table look like just holes cut in the table. Are there inserts that go in the holes, cuz if not, the only type of cup that's going to work in there are ones that have tapered sides. In other words, any cup or glass that's straight sided will fall right through the hole. Secondly, where does the A/C go when you have the powered drop down bunk, or does it only work when the bunk is in the down position?
I have looked everywhere to try and find out towing capacity for this unit. It is not on the fleetwood site. Did you happen to notice when you saw it in person? I want to tow a can am spyder, approx. 1500 pounds, and trailer is approx. 700#., so need a minimum of 2200 pounds, and another on this chassis I have bee looking at is right about 2 thousand, but I hear that is simply because of things on the undercarriage, otherwise this chassis would easiy handle five thousand pounds.
not sure Jackie. Fleetwood has incorrectly listed the GVWR as 9350lbs which is actually the GCWR according to Ram's website. To get the tow capacity you need to subtract the GVWR (which only the manufacturer knows) from the GCWR (gross combined weight rating which is the maximum the Ram Promaster can tow and includes the full weight of the van as well as any towed vehicle). without the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating which only Fleetwood knows because it includes their buildout) we cannot calculate the tow capacity. you could call Fleetwood and ask what their GVWR is then subtract that from 9350 to get the tow capacity. you'd also need to know the hitch rating. whichever one is smaller is the actual tow capacity.
Neil, so I'm guessing this means it would be functional for occasional temperature dips below freezing, say overnight, but no extended forays into sub-freezing temperatures?
Hi there. Yes, I haven't announced it formally yet but have been working with people. I charge $125/hr. for consulting and advice services. Most people take an hour and come loaded with their questions and run them all past me. I also do research for them and/or look over deal sheets, etc. email me at neil.balthaser@Live.com if you're interested John.
Lots of great stuff in this video. It seems to me the future is all electric with large lithium capacity, anything else will seem dated in 2 years. I'm not as big a fan of the quilted style of the upholstery. Too schmaltzy for my taste in an outdoor recreation vehicle. Even the burled wood although beautiful is almost too elegant for where it is. I prefer the more European, cleaner look, but that is just my taste.
Mom . . . I agree that all electric/lithium is going to surpass propane in the future, especially in the Class B category. Neil has done a tremendous job of explaining which class coaches apply to which bucket lists for me (as a soon to be retiree.)
My son is 6'1" and could walk around just fine....except for the AC unit. I'm 5'9" and have plenty of headroom. The seats are also very comfortable. Did 1100 miles in two days and was comfortable the whole time.
shortlist means that you should put it on your short list of vans that you're considering buying. it's a term that means it made the cut and should be seriously considered.
i'm not certain michael. sometimes the lead acid batteries are in the engine compartment and sometimes under the cab seats. good question - I'll have to check.
