Original video: • Sean fhíseán Gaeilge The vocative (scroll to 'vocative plural' to see 'a fheara' explained. nualeargais.ie/... The verb 'déan' in Munster (Cork) Irish corkirish.word... Script: docs.google.co...
Thank you for doing these videos Dave. Been here about 10 years and 2 of those years I lived in Spideal. I used to hear it all the time and that made it easier to absorb. But I’ve only been picking away at it since I’m not in the area now. I have to teach myself. I learned useful things from this video alone. I wouldn’t have been able to put those things in but now I can and it’s appreciated. Only when I’m after reading it is it possible for me to understand what a person says sad to say. This helps greatly. 🙏
What an amazing video! The gamut of spoken Irish very wide and can indeed be daunting for the learner. The way you mix humour with a thorough analysis offers a wonderful way of overcoming the challenge. Go raibh míle maith agat as an físeán seo, a Dave.
I find it so interesting how much of irish grammar and expressions actually influenced the english spoken by the Irish people. Like conditionals for example, super common in english spoken by irish people, very uncommon in let's say american or british english. Even things like "look at those legs on her", that's such a typical thing you'd hear in ireland. I had a suspicion this came from irish originally, when people translated irish to english directly in their heads (I should mention that I don't know irish at all as I'm not irish), it seems even local expressions in let's say Munster irish relate to Munster english dialect, same for Ulster etc. Even things like the "I dunno", that's so typical irish english, haven't heard that in other english dialects. Thanks for confirming my suspicion :)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-creole_continuum So... This doesn't apply 100% to Irish (as it obviously isn't a creole), but Hiberno-English is kiiiiiiind of a creole. 1. In the situation of Hiberno-English, originally Irish native speakers would have learned English as teens/adults, outside of their homes, family, and churches. As such, English would always be an odd fitting set of clothes for Irish speakers. 2. Basilects are the lower prestige languages when two languages collide. Acrolects are the higher prestige languages . Historically, as we all know, Irish would be the lower prestige language and English the higher prestige language. These two combined, sort of. 3. Irish language phrases and grammar constructions will pop up all the time in English/Hiberno-English. I'm only getting started learning Irish, so I'll leave y'all to tell me what some examples are. But I do speak Spanish fluently, Mandarin Chinese decently, and enough French to flirt with Polish women if need be. Each of these languages have examples of "imperial creolization". Mexican Spanish is utterly shot through with Nahuatl (To the extent that Mexican Spanish bucks the "all vowels" trend in Modern Spanish and is moving in an "all consonants" direction. Mandarin in Taiwan is quite mixed up with Taiwanese constructions and vocabulary, finally everybody knows about Cajun English in South Lousiana. (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GbrmelhroLw.html --- Cajun He-Man. Have fun with that.) 4. but yeah, languages will impact the grammar of other languages in close contact all the damn time. That's the fun of it.
@@hermessanhao i get what you're saying, but calling it creolization is a little excessive, for example even Mexican Spanish has a good number of words of nahuatl origin, but that's most of the influence. Hiberno English probably got its intonation and prosody from Irish, along with some constructions, but from what i know most of its distinctive characteristics come from 18th century english archaic features or alternative innovations from its english base. Modern Irish (as taught in schools and spoken by most of the non native population), on the other hand, is sadly much closer to becoming an actual creole (basically english phonology, english syntax, some english grammar bits transposed onto irish)
Some notes: “Meas tú?” - this actually keeps the medieval form of the verb. In Classical Gaelic you’d say ‘measaidh sé’ for ‘he considers, deems’ as the independent form and ‘an meas sé?’ or ‘an measann sé?’ as the dependent form (the -ann ending was an early modern innovation and was optional). So ‘(An) meas tú?’ is actually the older form of the question. “Ní hé an aghaidh an rud is tábhachtaí” - again ‘é’ for ‘aghaidh’ (this ‘é’ could refer to ‘an rud is tábhachtaí’, but then the sense is strange - the sentence expresses ‘the most important thing is not the face’ even though it’s awkward in English, ie. it gives information about ‘the most important thing’; but ‘é’ referring to ‘an rud’ would inverse it, making it a comment about the face, not about the most important thing). But I guess there’s been a lot of confusion with pronouns with the copula for at least a few hundred years already, so I guess the usage varies a lot between speakers, even older stronger ones.
Wow thanks for the historical context. I've no knowledge of classical Irish so this is a fun fact about 'meas tú'. _so I guess the usage varies a lot between speakers_ I think you're probably right. _again ‘é’ for ‘aghaidh’_ I guess the é/í thing is probably more obvious in non-copular sentences. Also, another commenter mentioned that referring back to a feminine noun in a general sense with 'é' is fine, which I think it probably is. My main point bringing it up was that some percentage of the time native speakers will refer back to the noun via its gender and I don't think I was ever made aware of this during schooling.
‘Meas tú’ is very common in Connacht. It is basically something similar to ‘I wonder’. You can say it to yourself as well. It doesn’t change depending on the number of listeners. ‘Meas sibh’ is not used; neither is ‘Meas mé’.
Hello from Chicago. This was hilarious! I'm amazed at how all you Irish Gaelic RU-vidrs sound so much like Americans when you speak both languages, so much more than anyone from that other island.
Just to say your videos are great, GRMA! Would love to see more of this series (full-speed native speakers broken down to give us a life-line is very welcome!) or the ones on pronunciation. Know these things take a lot of effort that doesn't come for free. Do you have a donate link or that to send you a cúpla pionta?
You’re very kind for the offer of pints! I don’t have a link or anything but if you know any other Irish learners that these videos would benefit, please do share to them
. So, Dave, when are you going to give us a fresh new video? It's been forever! Please get your act together and give us some new content, as RU-vid needs stuff like what you put up. Best wishes, Patrick.
Isle of Tenerife, Spain, Africa. Great breakdown! But don't you think the word "cosa" here would be better rendered as "legs"? Also, while not literally so close or even employing the same grammatical person, idiomatically "meas tú. . ." is usually probably better translated as "I wonder. . .", I reckon.
Yupp, spot on legs is what the guys were going for! My brain went to feet first. Fair point on “meas tú”, every time I’ve heard it it’s been in the context of “you reckon”/“you think” which even in English is probably away from the grammatical person. “I wonder” being an extension of that concept
"Ná bhfaighfá" is what is said here -but ná faighfá would make more sense. Gheófí - with a slender f. É to refer back in a general sense to a feminine noun without focusing too much on that noun is fine. Cén fáth? or cad fá? Mar gheall ar muc - should have lenition, so I think it was probably mar gheall ar an muc, but even then the dative muic could have been used. Tusa a bheith - pronounced tusa bheith, as the "a" is swallowed up.
_"Ná bhfaighfá" is what is said here -but ná faighfá would make more sense._ You're right. I wonder was he thinking of both 'ná faighfá' and 'nách bhfaighfá' and ended up coming out with a bit of a hybrid slip. Extra context for anyone else who reads this thread - 'nach' is pronounced as 'nách' in Cork and Kerry Irish. _Gheófí - with a slender f_ On re-listen I think you're spot on. _É to refer back in a general sense to a feminine noun without focusing too much on that noun is fine_ Yeah I think it's likely fine. _Cén fáth? or cad fá?_ I'm hearing 'cén fáth'. _Mar gheall ar muc - should have lenition_ You're spot on regarding the séimhiú. In terms of him using 'ar an', like yourself I don't hear the 'an' (nor a schwa). He delivers the line pretty confidently, I'm wondering is there any other grammar rule that he could be using?
Dave Learns Irish, mar adeirthar as Gaelainn, tosach maith leath na hoibre, agus is ana-mhaith an tosach do dheinis leis an bhfíseán so. Tá súil agam go mbeidh tuilleadh le teacht sara fada. Is ró-annamh do thánag thar fhíseánaibh ar RU-vid 'na múintear Gaelainn mar a labharthar sa Ghaelthacht í, agus do bheadh sé go hana-mhaith níos mó rudaí fónta mar sin ' fheiscint anso!
Do you do online 1-1 classes? I am a serious student who is very interested in finding an Irish teacher. I'm Irish myself, I speak fluent Spanish and broken French. I'm reviving my interest in Irish and need many doubts to be clarified by a competent speaker before fully diving in with memorisation.
I don’t do lessons but I’m flattered you see me as competent! Honestly I’m still very much a learner, although it seems like we both have the exact same aim in terms of finding some clarity with Irish. I am in no way affiliated and don’t know him personally at all, but you could try Patchy on iTalki. He’s a native speaker from Mayo and seems to have a teaching background, or at least experience giving online lessons. He’d be able to offer much clarity on legit native Irish I would think.
Another good video, Dave. You're well capable of analysing any Irish, it seems. I had a look at that Cork Irish webpage you linked, and I believe that's the same Irish language blog I visited many moons ago that I can only describe as "ultra purist". Now this might be understandable coming from a native speaker in the Gaeltacht, but it turns out he's actually a Englishman whose just a regular learner, so it is very weird. I do not like the way he constantly insists on speaking on behalf of native speakers - patronising would be too light a word to describe it. Worse, he is combative and ill-tempered in the comment sections with those who disagree with them. Most bizarrely of all, he's an English right-winger who is obsessed with the Irish language (an oxymoron like no other) and wants to import his county's classism onto our tongue, so Cork Irish is equivalent to Oxford English and Connacht Irish as Cockney in his imagination. As a Munster person, this does not flatter me, this is unfettered elitism. Here's an example of his attitude when confronted: "Irish does not “need” to get any speakers it can. The language is inanimate and doesn’t need anything at all. I recommend learners of the CO to cease their buffoonery and their attempts to speak piss Irish. This was telling, Irish is essentially dead Latin to him: "“The important thing is NOT communication at all - communication can be achieved in English - and so if you are only trying to communicate, you would do so in English.” Such a pity. But hey, I suppose that's life, eh? Sometimes the good comes with some bad. On a positive note, the blog seems to have a new operator since 2019, though unfortunately they're inactive.
I have no affiliation with the blog and prior owner but yupp some people are certainly more purist than others. Honestly I'm just thankful that someone went to the effort of getting real native speaker recordings and making them public. High quality information on Munster Irish can be very hard to come by.
@@davelearnsirish Oh, of course, its a mistake we can all make, but it probably is worth a disclaimer. I would go as far as saying he's a full on anti-Irish racist, even a white supremacist. On a few of his political articles he essentially justifies British cruelty in Ireland and caricatures the Gaelic chieftains as savages, even being mad enough to suggest we're British. It is, in fact, some of the most hateful diatribe I've ever read about us online, and all in the most unexpected of places. He is a sick, sick man. Do keep up your videos. Patchy speaks highly of your Irish :)
Wow! Thanks for the heads up! I’ve seen some of the argumentative comments but nothing like that, I had no clue! I’ll make sure to add a disclaimer if I reference it again.
@@davelearnsirish No bother. I don't mean to be political or anything (we should strive to keep politics out as much as we can in language learning space) but he's just way too extreme for comfort. Thankfully, in the last few years, he was forced out of control of the blog and someone else is now in charge, but they haven't posted, nor have they bothered to scrub any of his bigoted articles or comments. I won't be visiting that site again until its cleaned up.
@@pio4362 Well I expect the old owner (=me) of the Cork Irish blog will manage to sleep well knowing you won't visit the site. I wasn't forced out, but really I don't have to explain. I don't have time to run a blog as I am busy editing Irish books for publication.
Thanks for the video! Can you make a video talking about the different ways to pronounce the letter r, please? Broad and slender r and the sound of this letter in different positions?
