I love how G'Kar gradually went from a mustache twirling villain to this deep sympathetic heroic character, while Londo went from a silly foppish fool to a deeply conflicted sympathetic villain, and how their two plotlines kept circling each other.
Part of that is great character development. Another part was JMS straight up lying to the network about the show he wanted to make. He said that he knew they’d never let him make the show he wanted. He had to give them something they would understand at first, then change it later.
@@gregsteele806 Yet JMS always had a plan, unlike RJ Moore who started his own epic yet never had a plan. BSG started out stronger than B5 but BSG spiraled into a morass of conflicting plot points, nonsense and incomprehensible character behaviors while BSG saw threads come together and characters develop with depth and conflict.
@@kennethfharkin Agreed, they had to do some really awful retcons on BSG. There was no plan. B5 always had a plan. They even had contingencies for main character actors having to leave the show. The thing that messed B5 up was thinking they weren't getting season 5. They had to cram the whole story into season 4. Then, when they did get a 5th season they didn't know exactly where to go with it.
That "We know. We've tried" part always gets me. The tone G'Kar has while saying this, clearly lives were lost during those attempts. Andreas Katsulas is fan-fucking-tastic.
Back in the 90s someone on America Online's Babylon 5 message boards once posted, "What animals do they have on Babylon 5?" Someone replied, "We know they have ants."
@@medexamtoolscom I don't think they have ducks or any other sizeable fowl on B5 because when Marcus gave Ivonova eggs and bacon, Garibaldi said he hadn't had eggs in three years, and they are too expensive because they spoil too fast for shipment.
Actually, if you look up the cast of Babylon 5 in general, you'll find that a surprisingly large of them have already died. Doctor Franklin is dead. Vir is dead. Who would have guessed that, that Lando would outlive Vir. But in fact Lando is only made to look old with makeup and their age differences were not so much as they appeared. And my favorite character is dead too. Oh, poor Zathrus. You were the best, Zathrus.
Ironically when I was in college I called my Mom and was like "Hey watch this show" when B5 was first on. She watched a couple of the episodes and this was her favorite moment. She said it is probably the best description of why real aliens might not want to talk to us that she ever heard.
@@davidtexas1638 she is wrong. The real description for the why they don’t talk to us is that they are holy, unfallen beings from whom our rebel, wicked race has been isolated - just as we quarantine our own when they develop a similar deadly disease. Soon, the Cure will arrive with pierced healing hands and we’ll finally have the opportunity to get acquainted with them.
Or why we might not want to talk to aliens. Many have the notion that aliens must somehow be wiser, smarter, more powerful, more peaceful, when the opposite is just as possible. Personally, since I don't believe in aliens, I'm not losing any sleep worrying about it.
@@kjohn8917 LMAO! "Soon, the Cure will arrive..." Really? Your silly book of fairy tales puts that time within the lifetimes of the people the main character was talking to... Funny how that didn't happen, eh? Another victim of one of the oldest conspiracy theories ever concocted. But, lucky for you, your delusions can still be treated. "Atheism is what happens when you read the bible. Christianity is what happens when somebody else reads it for you." - Bertrand Russell Stop listening to those who would have you follow, and read it for yourself. Don't let them destroy what's left of your common sense!
Andreas Katsulas was a character actor. Once he put on the makeup, he was no longer Andreas Katsulas...he WAS G'Kar. That is why B5 must never be ressurrected, reimagined, or updated. Leave it be.
i always thought the series was a little morose,,, especially some of the closing scenes but G'Kar's lesson to miss Siakai was and is one of the most thought provoking i have ever watched. Thank you G'Kar,,, and forgive me for eavesdropping in on you conversation. but thank you for such a wonderful lesson rest your soul Andreas Katsulas,, you were and always will be G'Kar
That's the problem with "modern?" SciFi. They put too much emphasis on CGI/ effects, and neglect story lines, script, character development, acting, etc.. Think Michael Bay...
Ironically I quite like the SFX in this one. That is a really neat looking ship, both of them I always thought B5 had a higher class of sets than Star Trek, also. Less fantastic without being too familiar. The sort of things humans might actually live and work in. And somehow they manage to make us feel like they're not showing us the same 3 rooms and corridors a thousand times by constantly changing up the contents and lighting.
Love Andy's acting here. "How would it explain?" - light laugh, joking. "Vast...timeless" - Philosophical, ethereal. "We know, we've tried" - slight serious shift. "They are a mystery" - heartfelt, religious. "They must walk there...ALONE." - totally ominous mic drop, reinforced by dead-serious look. No reassuring smile, no half-hearted attempt at humor, no tension breaker, not even a head nod for emphasis. Just...the lesson.
They tried several times with Crusade and Legend of the Rangers. Both were crap. B5 was a spark that happened and then burned, then went out. You'll never find that spark again.
@@doom7ish No, the Walkers are essentially at the same level as the Vorlons and Shadows (or, perhaps are to them as the Minbari are to the other races). They are within our understanding, but barely. The Thirdspace aliens are the ones best compared to Lovecraftian mythos.
...and that was the exact moment I knew I was dealing with a Sci- Fi series of a completely new caliber. And with a cast of characters that are, as a certain someone said, "Not exactly what they seem".
I realized the same thing... only it took me decades to figure it out. When I got the entire dvd set of Babylon 5 as a gift, and I started going through episodes one by one, G’Kar kept standing out.
Now compare this level of complexity and writing to the Startrek Pickard/Discovery garbage - and this makes me weep how badly Hollywood has fallen. That is also exactyly why this show must remain as it is - remake would be just a desecration of this masterpiece.
It was the first to do a series long plot, season long plot, and a episode plot all at the same time. Every other series was only episodic only or at best short four part series (Dr. Who Classic era)
Babylon 5 always had what every great SF series always needs: a great cast, great stories and great messages. Thank you, Andreas, for making G’Kar one of our most beloved extraterrestrial heroes in the SF universe and hopefully the real universe. 🖖🏻
@@medexamtoolscom If not a villain then definitely not a man of peace. G'Kar started out as a rude hateful guy who wanted to see Centauri Prime burn, a wish that came true when he no longer wanted it. He went through extreme suffering to become the enlightened man with the generous personality we came to know later.
Great lines ... I like this warning he gave her and the fact that (if Michael O'Hare didnt leave the show) she would totaly ignore it, keep searching for the first ones, in a tragic chain of events find the shadows and become the Main-Hero's Living-Dead-Wife. Even though i loved the Sheridan Character, i sometimes wonder how the original plot would have been like if Sinclair and Talia havent left the show. Especially considering all the Valen related stuff...
It’s hard to imagine it being different though, I like micheal ohare but the Sheridan charecter seemed necessary, plus Sinclair’s was valen if that’s so then who leads the shadow war once he goes back in time or the war to liberate earth?
I think Sinclair would have travelled back at the end of Season 5 to become Valen. They just replaced that with Sheridan turning to light. That's how I see it anyway
@@WhiskeyBrewer Would he really have travelled back? When i wrote this i only guessed what the original plot was: I thought Sheridan just inherited most of Sinclairs plot. However, JMS seem to haved leaked a great deal more about the original plot meanwhile: If i memorize it correct, the plan was that Babylon 4 really was "captured" into the FUTURE (as previewed by season 1). By mid of the series and mid of the shadow war, Babylon 5 would have been destroyed (also foreshadowed in some early episodes). The final battle against the shadows would have been fought in the future (with the then very old Sinclair) using Babylon 4. @Travis Davis: Not 100% sure about it but i think the "Sinclair is valen" plot was only introduced after they needed to replace O'Hare: JMS needed an explanation on why "The One" sometimes referred Sinclair and all of a sudden now it reffers Sheridan (He went with three "The Ones": Sinclair, Delenn, Sheridan => Past, Present, Future). While i love the show, knowing this makes the "ducktaping" JMS did, or had to do there a little bit more obvious (Remember Sinclair "I got old because we made a time jump and i was lacking some time travel safety equipment ..." ? - meh). But thats just a minor complaint in retrospective - Still enjoying the episode very much, still a "nice save" :)
@@TheF1rstOne Sinclair was always intended to be Valen. Kosh calls him by that name on their first meeting in the pilot (well, his meeting with the person impersonating Sinclair).
I love the detail, like how she seems to have a brief shiver at the end. Having seen what she has seen, and then given that explanation by G'kar, it would be enough to send a chill up anyone's spine.
I was 3 years old when the show did so for you. I'm so happy that my father was watching the show in 90s, even when the situation in Russia was terrible. I watched it when I was 16, and I loved it. Now I'm 24 years old and I watch it once again, and now I understand that it was the true love, sweet like a honeycomb, unbound, unforgiving and everlasting. So bad so many actors died, so bad that many scenarios haven't been in the TV show (Sinclair removed as the captain and as a character of B5, Talia Winters being dissected because the actress didn't see any perspective in the show, Garibaldi revenge after he became a super rich guy, that I know from the book that he hunter Bester), but it is still perfect. They won't make a show with universal magic like this anymore, its a once in a lifetime opportunity, like seeing all of the planets standing in a line with their huge shadows covering the Earth. I think we should be thankful for such a generous gift from the universe, I just hope that someday, when we die, we shall go beyond the Rim together, with Sheridan, Sinclair, Delen, Garibaldi, Ivanova, Franklin, Zak, Lita and others including the Old/First ones, so that we wouldn't be never alone again ....
it is this kind of spiritual moments that make babylon 5 so different from all the other syfy shows. if they reboot B5 , i'm afraid they won't be able to recreate them unless strazinsky writes and directs it
The things that made B5 so great were simply multiple things (low budget encouraging dialog instead of action, casting classical theatrical actors who were comfortable working with static set pieces, etc) coming together in a perfect way. Any reboot of B5 would be a reboot in name only. Honestly, all they need to do is just redo the CGI scenes and release the original 35mm widescreen print in order to update it for today.
I absolutely agree. And even now, 20 years later, still no other sci fi series came close to Babylon5's level of acting, epicness and fascinating storyline. Every few years I watch Babylon 5 again, and will continue to do so for a very long time :)
give over mate i'm sure he has, note he said massive scale? B5 had a storyline that spanned 5 seasons 22 episodes each and then some spin offs. Firefly was canned after 1 season with a movie to appease fans, not that it was in anyway bad Fox massively dropped the ball, again.
Connie Colvin Agreed. I loved it. Great stories. Great visuals (for the time). Great alien species, inc those living sentient ships (albeit similar to the one in Alien and Prometheus). Great script. Etc. Too intelligent for today's masses alas.
When I first watched this I chalked it up to "just another mystery of the universe" which was the attitude of G'Kar. That they came back in Season 3/4 to matter was, to me, great writing.
The introspect and wisdom of G'kar is inspiring. I'm not religious in even the slightest, but he speaks in such a profound way that any word from G'kar has my undivided attention and I feel it is almost a religious experience.
actually Sheridan asked for the help of the remaining First Ones to unite against the Vorlons who were going to eradicate the known universe. The Walkers arrived and the other First Ones helped take down the Planet Destroyers and proceeded to leave the dimension we know. Sheridan didn't kick them out.
"Whatever they are Miss Sakai they walk near Sigma 957. And they must walk there alone!" That's simply great writing and magnificently delivered by Andreas Katsulas!
This! I suspected we were in for a treat when he first told Mollari "what's the matter, no small children to slaughter?" in Midnight on the Firing Line. It told us we needed to know more about what really happened between the Centauri and the Narn before we passed judgment on the Narn. That they had a legitimate beef that was more than just "we had a war and lost." That was literally the first regular season episode, and it was clear the Narn had a reason to be pissed and that they weren't generic bad guys, but you didn't get a good view into G'Kar as a 3-dimensional character until this exact moment. And the way he delivered it, I was like "I wanna see more of THAT GUY!" instead of the generic villain we'd seen so far....and boy did I get my wish.
Pretty good lines from G'kar. This was a nice change of pace from his usual "The Centari must die!" rantings from season 1. It showed us a preview of what he would become in the future and that he doesn't obsess over destroying the Centari all the time. I also like how he realizes that to the Sigma 957 walker aliens that we're all ants to them. To them, the feud between the Centari and the Narns seemed like a fight between two rival ant colonies......
@xellossaxon I disagree. Despite being a bigger fan of B5 than DS9, I think the latter was the best the Star Trek franchise had to offer prior or since. At first there may have been some competition with similar trappings, but DS9 evolved to something else and excelled for different reasons. They each brought something valuable to TV sci-fi that's sorely missing and needed today. Miss them both.
@xellossaxon It's true. I remember reading a stunningly long list somewhere years ago of the parallels and what DS9 took from JMS's B5 bible that he had sent to Paramount around 1990. When you watch DS9 after watching B5, you start to see just how many concepts were stolen (B5 was even supposed to have a changeling character, which became Odo in DS9), and you get a bad taste in your mouth. One thing I personally noticed as well was the major change in the Bajoran people's culture and system of government after TNG. In DS9, all of sudden, Bajorans became a heavily religious people with a hierarchy of Kais, and Vedics, and whatnot. That stuff was clearly ripped from the Minbari (and Kira, the irritatingly self-righteous religious lady and rebel who is somehow simultaneously depicted as the sex pot of the show, was like a fusion of the Delenn and Ivanova characters in terms of her role and attitude). There's no other explanation for the sudden change when you at how they had been depicted in TNG. I like some things about DS9 (such as everything Garak) and it has some episodes that were great for sure. I think it's a good show all in all. But I also think it's a very uneven show because it tries to have things both ways and be both a traditional Star Trek episodic vehicle for morality tales but also an operatic arc-based saga like like B5. For that reason, I don't think it reaches the heights of TNG as a Star Trek show (the best Star Trek show, in my opinion) nor does it reach the heights of B5 in what that show did well. The thing with B5's story arc is that the way the stories and characters develop makes more sense and you can just tell that the whole thing was put together beforehand with care, even with the casting hiccups and rewrites that occurred during the show. In DS9, they took many story and character concepts from B5 mixed with TNG's Bajoran and Cardissian conflict and developed all of it every which way (including ways that didn't make sense to me, like the way Gowron's character becomes a psycho for no reason, what they did to Kurn, Odo's inconsistency, Dukat becoming a religious nut (it seems that Londo was the template here, but Londo's development was handled FAR better and more believably), or Bashir suddenly revealed so late into the show to be a genetically engineered superhuman which strains disbelief far too much retroactively, but who cares if you can concoct a few interesting stories out of it, right? I care) only to try and tie it together at the end with a cliched good versus evil finale. But there's a reason that people remember DS9 more for the Dominion War than anything else and that's because it's an unfocused show that meanders around with the Maquis plotline for a few seasons, suddenly throws in Worf and the Klingons midway through for a ratings boost, and then really only comes into focus and offers something uniquely DS9 around Season 5.
@@megavolt67 I actually like bashir being a genetically engineered superhuman... It's the first time I've seen the nature/nurture question solved that way. By having a superhuman end up being so average nobody notices.
There is a name in English for that little shiver at the end: "Someone just walked over your grave". Just by seeing her, you know what has happened inside. Great cast and great acting. Time to binge again, I think.
Catherine seemed like an interesting character. Too bad we did not see more of her. However, we get to see flashes of brilliance from G'Kar; who be very important to the alliance in future episodes.
I saw this episode once if i recalled it was aired on 1997 (im not sure the exact date) at my country. But i still remember this scene exactly. Wow what a memory. I really miss this show..
It is also the very sad scene, because it show's how much Narns have lost due to Centauri ocupation. Remember, that is the 1st seazon of the show, and G"kar speak's words of wisdom in one minute and word of genocide in another (when he speaks about setting debts with their former opresors.)
This reminds me of an old Romanian poem: I don't crush the crown of wonders of the world and I don't kill with the mind the mysteries which I meet in my path in flowers, in the eyes, on the lips or graves. The light of others strangles the spell of the impenetrable hidden in the depths of darkness, but I, I with my light enhance the silent world - and just as with its white rays the moon does not shrink, but trembling increases the mystery of the night even more, that's how I enrich the dark horizon with the broad thrills of holy mystery and all that's not understood changes into even greater misunderstandings before my eyes- for I love and flowers and eyes and lips and graves.
Why would aliens be so interested in visiting this solar system or us? We're in the backwaters of the galaxy, orbiting a type of star that is common, with planets that can be found anywhere. Our radio 'noise' fades to nothing within a couple of light years. We're nothing special so we shouldn't think anyone would visit us at all.
I LOVE B5!!! This scene made me cry with joy the 1st time I watched it. I actually wrote about this segment in my Philosophy paper back in 2004. Mr Katsulas was a genius
The first season of Babylon 5 is not always looked on as favourably on as the later seasons, but one thing that I felt season one had that was lacking to some extent in later seasons was the sense of mystery. The universe seemed much larger and unexplored in season one with even the planet below Babylon 5 holding secrets that could not be fathomed. The aliens of Sigma 957 held so much potential, but in the end all they did was blow up the Vorlon planet killer.
What's interesting here is how you can see the way J. Michael Straczynski was setting up Catherine Sakai to play the same role that Anna Sheridan eventually did (the presumed dead romantic interest who returns, but brainwashed by the Shadows to lure the hero to Z'ha'dum), but Michael O'Hare's departure forced Straczynski to replace Sakai's character along with Sinclair. We now know that JMS wrote what he called a "trapdoor" into the series for each character. All of the main characters had a vital role to play in the unfolding story, and this made the characters indispensable to the story's integrity. Wisely foreseeing that any given actor might become unavailable, he had to have a way to have a different character, played by a different actor, step into the same role should that happen. It was a well he took such precautions, because Michael O'Hare's mental health problems necessitated him leaving the show, and later Andrea Thompson left after she didn't get her wish for more money and more screen time, bringing back Patricia Tallman to play the role of the powered-up telepath.
Sort of wished they would have given the prologue to the end... Catherine asks G'Kar why the Narn saved her and he said it was to save Commander Sinclair needless sorrow. At that moment G'Kar went from semi-regular jerk to one of the good guys.
Andreas Katsulas could probably have read a laundry list or a page or 2 from a PHONE BOOK & imbue it with philosophical & poetic nuances. He did it very well as G'kar. His role as Cmdr. Tomalak in ST : TNG didn't give him quite the latitude. A rare screen presence.
I have to seen this show or clip in so, so many years, and poor Andreas is long dead - but I just got goosebumps from his little speech here. What an awesome actor, and character...
Even after all these years, this scene is one of the most powerful I have ever seen on television. B5's first 2 seasons were full of mysteries but ever since they had to speed up, the mystery of Walkers, Shadows, etc kinda faded away. From almost Lovecraftian, ancient old races, whose motives we just couldn't comprehend even if we'd try, to Ivanova getting Walkers to join the battle with "vorlons said you were chicken" taunts. That was one of those few facepalm moments in the entire series.
It actually made sense if you go into the backstory. Seems the Walkers and the Vorlons really don't like each other and Ivanova hit a weak point. Even in the scene, she mentions the Vorlons which gets a reaction and she just digs at that in desperation.
The most profound scene in regards to encountering alien life. The universe is vast, we have not even seen the full extent of it because the light has not reached us yet. The universe is ancient and we have only been around for a literal blink of an eye. Odds are good there are species out there so advanced that they would be put on par with gods compared to us. And as G'Kar said, "If they are aware of us at all, it is as little more than ant and we have as much chance of communicating with them as an ant does with us."
We all know this is fiction but somehow, those few words from G'kar humble my understanding of the universe overall...tie it up with Clarke's 'When you finally understand the universe, it will not only be stranger than you imagine, it will be stranger than you can imagine" and you stand humbled even more...
This is 24 KT. Gold with platinum & providing a setting for the Hope or Koh - i - Nor diamonds, visually & verbally. I have the 5th season of B5 on DVD, but while it was good, the other 4 seasons were amazing. Mr. Katsulas as G'Kar was one of my favorite characters.
I swear, Andreas Katsulas' acting performance in B5 is still beyond most Oscar-winning actors. This man was so, SO good at his craft. He was undoubtedly the high point of the show, imo, just from his amazing screen presence and range.
"The Earth…is a very small stage, in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood, spilled by all those generals and emperors, so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters, of a fraction of a dot." - Carl Sagan
This episode was the first hint of the "First Ones". Tragically, I had forgotten this scene by the time Delenn explains the "First Ones" (including the Vorlons) to Sheridan in Season 2, "In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum". But when I saw this scene again on a recording, it tied up ends I did not know were loose!
I love how G'Kar starts his speech like he's preaching, explaining... Then by the end he's changed, he doesn't know, he's not sure he wants to know, and he admits it. He goes from arrogance to a quiet, deliberate humility. The music makes it awesome.
I never watched this show but I remember flipping through the channels when it was still on the air and coming across this scene. I found it fascinating.
And here I go again on my own Goin' down the only Jump Point I've ever known Like a drifter, I was born to fly alone And I've made up my mind I ain't wasting no more time
Actually Catherine follows Sinclair to Minbar. You can read about it in the 100% canon book, "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" by Kathryn Drenna who was married to jms when the series was produced, so she had unprecedented access to his thoughts for her book. She also wrote the S1 ep "By Any Means Necessary".
@@steveaustin2686 I know. I've read it. The question I was responding to was why she didn't stay beyond the 1st season. (I think. It's hard to figure out comment threads this old.)
@@Kartissa IIRC, shortly before the events of "War without End", she had gone 'missing'(all but confirmed dead) during a mission assisting the Rangers. I don't know how canon that is, but it did explain a lot, up to and including why Sinclair was so wiling to fulfill his destiny to become Valen in the past.
The first glimpse of what G'Kar was to become. He was still angry bitter and a villain at this point. To see him grow as a character and Londo as well is why I loved this series. I enjoyed Delenn and Sheridan story. However for me they pale in comparison of tragedy of Londo and spiritual awakening of G'Kar.
Andreas Katsulas was a magnificent actor, too bad that he has left us. If he had been british I'm certain that he would have become "Sir Andreas Katsulas" at some point! RIP Andreas, G'Kar, Commander Tomalak, the one armed man, etc. We won't forget you!
There are more really great scenes and nuggets of truth about the universe and mankind within this series than any other sci fi series ever and that includes all the star trek series combined and I say this as a trek fan from way back. to the original. Trek was all about a utopian future while B5 was more grounded in the reality of human behaviors.,
Star Trek is not utopian. It's just an improved world that still has imperfections. A good example of this is the DS9 episode "In the Pale Moonlight." More to the point, the human race will likely be extinct by the 23rd century if we don't improve our behavior. In that sense, Star Trek is more realistic about human behavior than Babylon 5 is.
