Gaimangate: Ten Days Later

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#neilgaiman #goodomens #gaimangate #davidtennant #michaelsheen
Me when Neil Gaiman uses his platform to exploit vulnerable young women and puts two kind and brilliant actors who are so much better than what he deserves in an impossible position

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12 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 139

@cutewingedpug427 2 месяца назад

Adding onto this - wanting the production to be continued isn't just "prioritising rich white men over rape victims". The production team for good omens is made up of hundreds of working class people inside an industry which is very hard to get into and stay in. If people try to get go3 cancelled, that will just be hundreds of people suddenly without a job! My art teacher was on the production team for go1 (she trained Dog), and I think without her I would have also forgot that good omens supports lots of people financially, not just Neil and David and Michael.

@domperdomper9250 2 месяца назад

@@cutewingedpug427 I don't think Amazon cares about anything other than profit :( So I'm pretty sure they'll decide the show's fate based on what they think will bring them the most financial gain. Amazon is notorious for human rights violations so they couldn't care less about ppl losing their jobs. That being said I hope that they'll find a way to continue the show, but without gaiman. He needs to be held accountable for what he did.

@musicstar8418 Месяц назад

what I am wondering is if ocean at the end of the Lane gonna still be making since the same director of coraline was planning on doing that (hopefully he doesn't side with gaiman)

@LisaBeta-42 Месяц назад

That dog tjat bi David Tennant in his calf? Left a scar that provides evidence to "mishap on set"😮

@victoriar4637 Месяц назад

You're right about all the people with the jobs in the series like lighting, dog training, child chaperone, set/prop design, costume people etc etc, which would all go too if it was cancelled!

@mabusestestament Месяц назад

Why white men though? Isn’t it horrible for any type of person to do this?

@justaginger5838 2 месяца назад

There is a point to be made about putting celebrities up on a pedestal, but it also just sucks to find out that someone you thought was a good person turns out to be the contrary, regardless of their status. The betrayal is still real, and it's still okay to feel that way. Your grief is valid.

@mabusestestament Месяц назад

I agree. Personally, however, I’ve always just been interested in the art, not really the artists behind artworks as persons. Pretty much the only interest I’ve ever had in artists is how they create their art. So when artists in real life turn out to be the wrong type of people - and lots of 2:30 have done bad stuff in one way or another - most of the time the art is still fine for me. the art >>>>>>>>>>>> the artist But perhaps I’m different that way.

@aimelle3 2 месяца назад

Agreed, the best solution would be for GO3 to go ahead but for Gaiman to step away from the production. If he doesn't have the decency to do it himself, this is probably where David and Michael could put a thumb on the scale. I have no doubt that discussions are being had behind closed doors. We'll have to wait and see. GO3 doesn't go into production until January and likely won't air until two years from now, so there's time to figure it out.

@ericamacs3875 2 месяца назад

I hope so more than anything. It has given me something to live for. (I don't mean that in a hyperbolic way, but in the way you keep going because there are nice things in life to look forward to.. I think they should consider bringing John Finnemore back as he wrote quite a lot of series 2, and he's a very funny and very well respected comedy writer. They will have the majority of scripts already by now. They would need to find a showrunner though. I suppose the big problem is it being derailed. You'd have to make sure promotional interviews banned any questions about it, that kind of thing, which is possible but there are always journalists desperate to make a name for themselves who will slip a question in. Plus you get people who will campaign against it, flood any social media promotion with comments etc. Also conventions, I have a feeling David has done one in the last few days or very soon, I wonder if those questions were banned.

@noondarkly 2 месяца назад

Sigh. When I met my husband 24 years ago, he introduced me to the world of graphic novels through the Sandman series, and what an incredible journey that was. Our collection is still on the shelf and is part of our history together. I have also been a fan of Tori Amos since 1994 or so, who is as far as I know a good friend of Neil's (she was the inspiration for one of the Sandman deities, I forget which one, shame on me). So while I'm not a "fan" of NG as such, his work has been a part of me for half of my life and GO was such a breath of fresh air for me. This whole situation is very painful to watch, I keep googling for news and I really, really hope things will be said, and soon. We cannot be left in the dark. David and Michael must be devastated. Half of Tumblr and the entire lgbtq community must be devastated. Lauren, you look so very sad, my heart breaks for you. Please never lose hope - and the community you are part of, will not crumble because of what happened. In fact I think you guys will come out stronger because of it. There is a part of me that wonders if Neil is considering the damage he'd done and regretting his choices - but that's another matter, for another day. 😢

@mabusestestament Месяц назад

My girlfriend still keeps his works on the shelves as in our opinion/ the way we feel art >>>>>>>>> the artist. But it can be different for everyone.

@kay-jay1581 Месяц назад

Oh tell me about it. I got read of all my Neil Gaiman books except for good omens because Terry Wrote and I just can’t seem to detach from it for now. Also I have other good omen books like the script and the making of the show tucked somewhere in my house. Also months ago I purchased the Graphic Novel for Good Omens. A part of me wants to cancel the order but it’s a little too late I think. Also I feel terrible for the artist I wonder if she knows anything. I really loved the work she was adapting from the book. So also feel bad if she gets there on down the bus because of Neil

@harlequeenchannel 2 месяца назад

Not just saying this as a fan of the channel - I think this is an incredibly well-made response. It does a good job at both respecting the victims and acknowledging the core of the problem with Gaiman, AND respecting fans and Michael and David's and their complex feelings, AND facing the facts about how Amazon and the film world works, AND creating a good discussion on not putting people you don't know on a pedestal.

@Nightmarc369 Месяц назад

I got into Gaiman in my late teenage years when i was in a dark place existentially in that point of my life, which also affected my writing habits. Until i began with Coraline which has been a long time favorite film of mine and i loved the book just as much, and then he won me over with Stardust and Ocean at the End of the Lane, especially that last one which pulled me out if my existentialism and gave me a new perspective of life. From there i spent the duration of four years collecting and absorbing anything Neil Gaiman: from his short stories to the entire sandman comic series, which also helped me think outside of the box with writing, as i would listen to his interviews and read his masterclass, and i would constantly put on his Signs of a Life album for creative motivation. But hearing of his allegations was just... Devastating, shattering, betraying, heartbreaking. I wouldn't say that I put him on a pedestal, but i looked up to him as a creative and had highly respected him, even fantasizing meeting him sometime and just chatting. But when all this came out, i was in denial of it at first, but the more and more information that was being released, i cant even touch another one of his books now without feeling grimy, i guess i should've seen it coming with his explicit sexual descriptions in some of his books, but still.

@flusel4949 2 месяца назад

I 100% agree with everything. After hearing and digesting the allegations you certainly look back at other things like Douglas Mackinnon’s departure and posts in another light. Let’s all just hope there will be a new show runner 🙏🏼

@AA-ln3kn 2 месяца назад

Lauren, I cried while watching this. I’m serious. (I’m gonna go on a bit of a spiralling rant, which lacks coherence, bear with me) Good omens helped me so much. It made me more comfortable with who I am, it genuinely helped with my raging war against depression, it made me a better person And now that these allegations have come out I feel like shit. Also… I feel like I need to say this but good omens does not belong to Neil. He co wrote it with terry. It belongs to him to. It belongs to David and Michael and the entire crew. It belongs to the fans, who have spent hours dedicated to creating fan art and fan fiction. Gomens does not belong to Neil and that is a hill I will die on. And.. yeah idk I’ve seen so many people outside the good omens say “oh they’re only still liking good omens because it was made by a babygirl white man” but like. I will be honest I never really liked Neil that much. And I think what so so many people fail to understand is that this is a very difficult situation. Yes, it involves sa and yes you just support the victims no matter what. But it’s still confusing, it’s still diffucult

@AA-ln3kn 2 месяца назад

Once again, I’m so sorry for spiralling here in the comments, I just really needed to get it off my chest and seeing this video sort of triggered it

@alexbee6676 Месяц назад

⁠@@AA-ln3knI liked the point that you made that it doesn’t belong to Neil, but to everyone involved, whether that be the actors, the crew, or the fans… and Terry Pratchett. I’m old(I remember the first Dr. Who… William Hartnell) but only came out as queer/non binary in my mid 60s(being gay was still illegal here in Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 till the 1980s)so I find a great deal of help and support in fandoms like this and have such a deep love for Good Omens. I’ve loved David Tennant for a long time - I’m from the same city as him - and he and Michael are wonderful as A. & C. So, just wanted to thank you for that comment - an excellent point.

@mabusestestament Месяц назад

“a babygirl white man”? Who says that? I’d say, don’t listen to anybody who speaks to you like that.

@chuchuchie 2 месяца назад

YES!! We will support David and Michael our beloved Demon and Angel! Amazon has everyone’s hands tied by contracts!!! People need to understand the business behind all of this!

@tillytally250 2 месяца назад

The fact that someone I’ve looked up to for years has been hiding such terrible things is entirely heartbreaking. I’ve been trying to scour the news for real facts recently, so I appreciate this video and the research you’ve done. It’s really not fair, is it? After feeling like an absolute outcast, the one fandom I can feel loved, seen, and included in is Good Omens, only to have the image f’d up because of one man who took his privilege too far. It’s a horrible thing, and as much as I would love to get a Season 3, I really hope they take their time on the right approach. Also, expect my David representation video that you talked about awhile ago, I’m still working on it, but I think right now David needs all the support he can get :)

@mabusestestament Месяц назад

Fair?

@hydrogen3266 2 месяца назад

I didn’t know about this, and I’m glad this video came into my recommended. I’m glad you talked about how the response from David and Michael is complicated, because I’m sure a lot of people will try to “hold them accountable” or “cancel” them for something they didn’t do and basically have no control over. Because knowing what I know about David, he’d speak out if he could; he’s never really been the kind of guy to hold back opinions about this sort of thing

@dandelion_16 2 месяца назад

Thank you for your perspective. I personally don't keep up w David and Michael that much, so I didn't really know what was going on on that side of the fandom. Thank you for filling us in. Personally, I'm still figuring out how to tell my irl GO friends. I have no idea if they know, and I hate the thought of breaking their hearts. And I get that you feel foolish, I'm in kind of a similar boat and it's been pretty painful to realize this wasn't different. It just was the outside perspective. Hang in there. Whatever the outcome, we'll be able to look back on this one day and be relieved it's in the past.

@alexbee6676 Месяц назад

Yes, I’m trying to decide whether to tell a friend who is a huge Good Omens fan: on the one hand, she’ll hear it sooner or later, but on the other hand, I don’t want to be the bearer of such news. Still don’t know what to do.

@bluevortexpng1211 2 месяца назад

neil using david's name as a pawn for his skeevy behavior probably got swept under the rug bc the allegations of direct abuse were much more horrific (and do deserve more light, imo), but it definitely made me cringe while reading the transcripts for the podcast... like it's so unexpected, i never put neil on a pedestal but i never thought he'd be that brand of creepy? i never thought he'd be the kind of person to leverage his power like that? oh, yeah, i'll use my employee as leverage to get pics from this woman. what the hell...?? i'm sorry for what you went through re: the theater teacher, i hope you and your peers are doing well

@laurenrogers 2 месяца назад

@@bluevortexpng1211 oh yeah we got him fired my sophomore year it was epic fully a story for another video actually

@silviamayo2993 2 месяца назад

Thank you for putting out such a thorough summary of the situation. It’s horrifying to hear what his victims had to go through. But if one thing has given me hope it’s the solidarity of this fandom and the kindness of the community we’ve created. We can’t control what Neil does, what Amazon does, or what Michael and David are forced to do because of contracts, but we can support each other. The story of Good Omens means a lot to me for a number of reasons. Perhaps one of the most important ones is that it’s part of how I met you. Regardless of what happens with Season 3, I’ll always have that.

@laurenrogers 2 месяца назад

Awww Silvia :)

@samanthabarry5997 2 месяца назад

Lauren you have an insane talent where, even if your posts are more serious, you still manage to calm my nerves and make me relax, despite everything going on, and I know I’m not the only one!!! ❤️❤️❤️

@rebeccaflutters5179 2 месяца назад

Thank you for making this video. The allegations are sickening and disturbing and I wish the best for the victims in their recovery and getting justice. I will never stop loving Good Omens and am currently learning to remove Neil from it in my head because it just feels gross otherwise. I hope Good Omens does continue to its final season but only if Neil steps down and someone else takes over. I understand though, that Good Omens is not the priority here. So many of us respected this man and he turned out to be a predator. I feel for all of you, as a Good Omens fan myself. But especially the victims and people that know the man personally. Thank you for your content. The creativity you have poured into this fandom is incredible. I would not be surprised if GO3 is cancelled amid these allegations but first and foremost, I hope justice is served. We have all felt betrayed by this and your feelings are perfectly valid. Take care of yourself and I wish you luck on whatever is next for you.

@alexbee6676 Месяц назад

Allegations… yes, still that, although I think there’s little doubt something bad happened. I’m a SA survivor(several occasions) and know first hand how it affects you; one, I blamed myself for, for over 40 years: the attitudes were different back then in the 70s(I’m an oldie) and it’s difficult to describe how that affected me - self blame for decades made it worse. I find it helps me to keep talking about it… which is why I mentioned it here. All the best from Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

@rebeccaflutters5179 Месяц назад

@@alexbee6676 I'm so sorry you went through that. I hope you're doing okay now. Take care of yourself.

@ellymyths 2 месяца назад

The main thing is none of us should feel bad for falling for his manipulation, that's what manipulation IS and tbh It feels a little like JK Rowling all over again, I might not have been as active when she started acting worse but it still hurt so much, and even though the last season might be a little weird I hope the show doesn't go on with Neil, and I'm just sad about this rn

@norikokomikado Месяц назад

I think this is worse than JK Rowling. Rowling, horrible as her views are, was at least honest about said horrible views (even proud of her own cyberbullying), but Neil Gaiman seems like he's hiding something. Pretending to be something he isn't.

@wilyserpent 2 месяца назад

what a solid response, an absolutely profound and eloquent way of putting- what I feel to be the feelings of many within this beautiful fandom- into words. straightforward and easy to understand for a horrific situation. thank you, lauren. as always, love your content and thank you for posting this! ❤

@AshofApocalypse 2 месяца назад

I was wondering how the contracts would play into this. God I feel bad for all the people involved (not Neil). Putting your heart and soul into something and then you find out that one of the creators has taken advantage of the thing you are trying to create/ that you have loved to manipulate people/you to do what he wants. For fucks sake he’s taken the work he and Terry made, a man he has called a good friend, and used it to SA the fans of said work. I want to puke. I hope justice is served and that the victims get compensated(I don’t know what other word to use) for the harm he has done to them and probably countless other people.

@alexandria9276 2 месяца назад

I'm still trying to parse how i'm going to approach this show and the book in the future. As a fan I hope this community will find a reason and the strength to stay united. Despite this happening I hope we as creatives and fans overtime continue to grow inside and outside the fandom and that one person's horrible actions do not stop us.

@yubantwo2086 2 месяца назад

As always, your deep dives are thought-provoking and thorough. I love the world of GO and am as big a fan as anyone other than you, Lauren, and other GO content creators (which, by the way, one creator I've followed for as long as I've followed you has said nothing at all. They report on Neil, David, and Michael all the time, so their silence on this matter is more than curious). My initial response was not to rush to judgment despite being an SA abuse survivor by an uncle and assistant pastor, two men who were authority figures to the young girl and teenager that I was. As an adult, I've had to ward off unwanted attempts, some of which came horribly close to unthinkably worse violence. Unfortunately, I am all too familiar with the tactics used to silence victims, which can paralyse one with fear and guilt for years. After watching your deep dive, you reminded me that when the director quit, clearly bad blood had been at the root of that divorce. That was the first hint that something was wrong in Rivercity although Neil played it off as if McKinnon's contribution was easily replaced. It was then that my worries for GO3 began. To your point, if the show gets canceled, it would impact more than the lead actors and secondary players, it would impact the dressers, designers, production crew as well as msny others kike assistants and even the people who serve the cast meals. My prayer is that since Neil finished the script that a new show runner will take over. That will be a legally costly and complicated affair but could be managed...IF Neil reads the writing on the wall and loves the story more than his ego. I support the Queer community but am not a member. However, I am impacted by racism and sexism and feel an affinity to your community. I just wish to caution all of us to remember that the artist and the artistry produced are different entities. I boycotted Woody Allen's movies bc people of color were, for many years, only cast as thugs and maids. The allegations made by his daughter and ex-wife were/are complicated. However, the fact that he took nude pix of his then wife's adopted daughter as a teenager living under his roof then married her put me over the edge and continues to do so no matter that they remained married. At first, it seemed as if what Neil was admitting to was serious bad judgment and creepy behavior. If what you learned about Neil ostensibly offering to give David's hotel info as a way to get a fan to submit to him is true, he most definitely must be removed from his position and access to power. The rest must go through the process of innocent until proven guilty, as painful as that seems, even to me. Take care of yourself, Lauren. In the meantime, believe that truth will prevail and that the GO characters and actors we love will make it to their screen conclusion.

@Sendarya Месяц назад

Hi yes, that would be me you are referring to. Thanks for not naming me, but calling me out all the same. If you find it curious that a person isn't sure how to discuss something that is this deeply divisive AND personal to them, I don't even know what to say. I have repeatedly said, I am just a fan who likes to make videos. I'm not a news reporter, I don't work for Amazon. I have not said a thing on my channel because my emotional devastation is so deep, I'm considering shutting down my channel. I am not interested in fame or money, I do this because I LOVE this. And this is killing me, I am an emotional wreck. I have been going back and forth trying to figure out what to do. This isn't some news I can report on, as I do with other news, because it is affecting me personally VERY deeply. I have thousands of hours invested, friends I have made, a comicon I spent over a 100 hours creating panels for, and I don't know if I can continue. I have obligations to a couple of friends who have started projects that I feel I owe it to them to finish, but otherwise, I'm basically a mental disaster right now. This video is great, and Lauren is very brave for saying something. I think she's got some very wise words! And, on the bright side, your comment has helped me make a decision. I'll have a video posted this Thursday. I guess I chose a public life, so I have to suck it up and decide. In public.

@begrunenwasgeht2990 Месяц назад

@@Sendarya I can imagine how you feel. Your videos always show so much love and passion and watching them is a great pleasure for me (I don‘t know anybody who loves this show as I do and so I‘ve nobody to talk about it - but there you were… 🥰). Now we have to cope with these feelings of betrayal and disappointment. I think this will take some time. I‘m feeling with you and all the others who love this show and this amazing and heartwarming fandom. This community is so much more than only Neil and it‘s worth to be loved. Big hugs for you (if you want them) and thanks from the bottom of my Heart!

@Sendarya Месяц назад

@@begrunenwasgeht2990 Thank you for the hugs, they are appreciated. I know how hard this is on the whole fandom. I think we'll all be sorting out our feeling for a while.

@yubantwo2086 Месяц назад

@@Sendarya You wrote: "Hi yes, that would be me you are referring to. Thanks for not naming me, but calling me out all the same. If you find it curious that a person isn't sure how to discuss something that is this deeply divisive AND personal to them, I don't even know what to say." As I did not name names or even give away a gender, my intention was to be sure that no one would know about whom I was speaking. The word curious was as neutral a word that came to me in the spur of the moment. The point of my comment was to respond to Lauren who did speak out. What I meant by curious was that this community has basically gone quiet OR has condemned Neil without due process (and I say that as a SA survivor). It breaks my heart that this Fandom and community, which is something that so many have held so dear for so long has seemingly been struggling and suffering mostly *in silence.* It was not my intention to condemn you but rather, I have been eagerly looking forward to hearing from you to say something, anything, even exactly what you have said here. You should not have to decide right now. Hearing from you would bring us out of isolation and back into our community by sharing our devastation and worries. Of course, everyone reacts differently. Please accept my apologies. From my perspective, Aziraphale, Crowley and the GO world no longer belong solely to Terry and Neil in the same way children do not solely belong to their parents once they make their way into the world. When Terry died, Neil took up the GO torch. If Neil's actions require that he be disqualified to continue more than what he has done so far, I believe that the GO world and those characters must live on as they have been while we wait for the 3rd and final installment. Whether or not that will happen remain to be determined based on factors none of us can foresee or have any control over but we can hope. "I have not said a thing on my channel because my emotional devastation is so deep, I'm considering shutting down my channel. I am not interested in fame or money, I do this because I LOVE this. And this is killing me, I am an emotional wreck." PLEASE don't or at least please wait, give this and yourself time before making any decisions of this magnitude. We love you and love your channel because you are like one of us. However, you, like Lauren, have gone further and poured your life's blood, energy and time into giving us fans SO much. You brought so many people together, completed and provoked thoughts we didn't know that we should or could be having by unlocking so many corners of our brains with brilliant information you found to share. Shutting down your channel would create a void of a vortex for you and for your fans and fans of GO. I was never a fan of Neil's or Terry's.. I was a fan of the GO world they helped to create which came through them to us. "I have been going back and forth trying to figure out what to do. This isn't some news I can report on, as I do with other news, because it is affecting me personally VERY deeply. I have thousands of hours invested, friends I have made, a comicon I spend over a100 hours creating panels for, and I don't know if I can continue. I'm not even sure I'll be at the con. I have obligations to a couple of friends who have started projects that I feel I owe it to them to finish, but otherwise, I'm basically a mental disaster right now." Again, although I am not in your shoes and do not really know how or exactly what you are feeling, I feel gutted and I have not been as invested as you or Lauren have been. But I think being with other like minded GO fans may prove to be healing for you. I have had difficult decisions to make that had some serious human and political implications for me personally. As an opera singer, I sang mostly Italian repertoire, some French, some Russian and a lot of English. At an audition for a role I really wanted, they stopped me and asked me why I had never sung German opera. Basically, because I have a voice more suited for the Italian repertoire but the truth was that no one had ever hired or even suggested me for such parts. I left down trodden and called my agent to tell her that the audition had failed only to hear that they had already called her and offered me a German role which ended up leading me to be offered the role of Venus in Wagner's Tannhauser, the long version. I struggled with the use of Wagner's music by the Third Reich during the Holocaust and of Wagner's personal bigotry against Jews. I had many Jewish friends who took umbrage with me just living and working in Germany. In the end, I made a decision that the music Wagner wrote was given to the world through him. His music does not belong to him. How his music has been used is the same as how fire can warm a home, cook our food or burn down our dwellings and devastate our lives. So even though I have friends who may not have agreed with my decision, I sang the role and in the end it was the right decision for me. " (...) your comment has helped me make a decision. I'll have a video posted this Thursday. I guess I chose a public life, so I have to suck it up and decide. In public." Apologies for this long reply, which I've thought about all last night and all day today because I wanted to answer you thoughtfully by being mindful of your struggles vs. my selfish wishes for you and for me. I will be looking forward with baited breath to hear what you will share. Again, I do beg of you to consider not making a definitive decision until you have had even more time and distance. Hearing from you will soothe many of us but a decision may not need to be forthcoming at this exact moment in time. Reconsider going to the comicon it may just be the elixir you need regardless of what you ultimately decide to do.

@kay-jay1581 Месяц назад

@@SendaryaI’m a big fan of your videos! You’re a great content creator. I figured you also didn’t say anything because how disappointing and heartbreaking this situation is. What ever you decide I hope you know you are supported and loved. You brought together amazing artists and creators for great a fandom, for just the love of Good Omens and for the LGBTQ community.

@Stormchantress 2 месяца назад

I am by no means justifying anything Neil did (the sheer fact that he neglected aftercare after his partner passed out from rough sex is appalling), but just to keep facts straight: the nudes for meeting DT conversation was with K - the fan he dated who is one of the two women that the podcast focuses on. The message exchange happened after their relationship ended - they were still friends after that (it goes without saying, that doesn't disprove the allegations against him) and the whole exchange was a joke, as K herself admitted on the podcast. I know listening to four-hour-long paywalled content is a drag, but relying on headlines and regurgitated news is hardly reliable. Also, could anyone point me to any sources on the "other stories" that are mentioned here? I haven't had much luck googling. Personally, I'm not sure how I'd feel about GO s3 with a different showrunner. We've all seen what an incompetent showrunner can do to the most respected franchise (The Witcher, The Rings of Power...). Perhaps if it were still NG's script, it might work. I'm still going to watch it legally, because NG is a multi-millionaire either way and he'd hardly feel the difference, and I'd actually be taking money from everyone involved in the production: minor actors, set creators, music composers etc. For the same reason I'm not going to bootleg the two seasons currently available - that would only tell Prime there's no point in making s3 and all the people involved in the production would lose their income.

@alexbee6676 Месяц назад

It’s worth pointing out that the source - the one that I found this out from - is by Rachel Johnson, sister of the deeply unpleasant ex Prime Minister of the U.K… and who has been involved in some very unpleasant and disturbing things himself. Folks in the US may not be aware of that. To be honest, I would take anything she writes with a huge pinch of salt(I’m not saying he didn’t do anything… just that there may be more/other reasons for this, particularly timing, as the piece came out just as we were having a really controversial General Election here)

@mabusestestament Месяц назад

And don’t forget Star Wars. Star Wars has also been ran into the ground by incompetent show runners.

@kay-jay1581 Месяц назад

7:09 aaaaugh the pain I feel for David and Michael they were so proud of portraying such good Characters. Mind you guys half of the work is thanks to Terry Pratchetr. I haven’t done too much research of his life, but I’ve never seen anybody complain about Terry. Everybody seems to agree that he was a good person, but was quiet and sort of angry writer (not because of his fans or anybody personally) but because there was rarely any justice in the world for the people who need it. Gods! I imagine that he never got to found out about Neil’s disgusting actions :/

@dandelion_16 2 месяца назад

There's an article I found via another youtuber who covered this (Spencer Fantastic). The article really does well at criticizing Tortoise where needed without discrediting K or Scarlett. Won't link it here for fear of having the comment deleted. And just so anyone knows, the article goes into details on sa, grooming, rough sex acts and bad bdsm conduct, so if you can't have that, save yourself plz. It's not merciful.

@twistedelegance_ Месяц назад

As a cis gay male survivor of CSA I am tired. The news has been reported even here in Finland and I don't know what to believe. On other hand I know what it's like not to be believed; my mum would not believe my cousin was abusing me in sauna every time I visited. "she's not like that, you're making up things" is all I got. On the other hand, I've seen how quickly lies spread and how fast people lose their careers because of them. I can't believe all victims because I know not all of them have been victims but attempted to destroy someone. All I can do is wait and wonder. The worst part is, even if he somehow magically was innocent and proved it, people would still call him all kinds of vile things for the rest of his life. I cannot trust the internet nor social media. Its proven itself to be a cesspool. I hope the truth comes out regardless. Either the victims deserve justice or Gaiman deserves his name cleared.

@gilbertsaller913 Месяц назад

Very well said. I'm so glad I found this video, you were able to verbalize everything I've been feeling since hearing about this. It scares me how manipulative, false, and downright evil a person can be. I used to really look up to Neil, but only "knew" him through his writing and videos of him. It does feel hard to trust anyone anymore. I did meet David in person at a Comic Con and what you said is true, he is very kind and empathetic. I hope he is OK as well, I am sure this is very difficult for him.

@begrunenwasgeht2990 Месяц назад

Lauren, you‘re amazing. You put my feelings in words and everything I hardly dared to think. I‘m sad and I feel betrayed. I sympathize with the young women and I‘m so sorry for them what they had to go through. But (I know that’s selfish, so so sorry for this!) I also didn’t see any future for season 3, I was really afraid. You not only gave me a glimmer of hope (S3 without Neil), you showed me that I‘m not alone with my thoughts. Thank you very much for this!

@PartanBree Месяц назад

David Tennant and Michael Sheen seem like decent sorts. None of us knows them personally, however.

@steffirebellin1832 2 месяца назад

Stumbled upon your channel and love your take on this situation. I haven‘t been much of a fan of Neil Gaiman, and got into Good Omens mainly because of David Tennant, so I‘d be gutted if season 3 were not to happen because of this (I don‘t think it will). Hope they can get a different showrunner, though. I don‘t really know much about Neil other that he seemed like a cool guy for being a well known person who still answers asks on tumblr - but then you mentioned how this could be basically his „hunting ground“ and that‘s just yuck…even if the allegations come out to be untrue, there was still a power imbalance happening, so he‘d still not be the good guy. I think David is at a Con this weekend. I‘m curious if he‘s going to be asked about it and how he responds.

@noondarkly 2 месяца назад

oh god I hope they won't ask David in public :( what a terrible spot he must be in. 😢😢😢

@ericamacs3875 2 месяца назад

I was wondering if the con might ban the questions? They really can't allow it I'd think.

@kay-jay1581 Месяц назад

I think that’s not an appropriate thing to ask at a con. Women have been assaulted and David had nothing to do with it. He was just brought to the show because Neil asked him to. David doesn’t have an online presence, anything posted online it’s because of Georgia and other media parties. Michael in the other hand… I feel heart broken for him. He adores Good Omens since decades ago. He was an OG of OGs fan of Good Omens, of Aziraphale and Crowley, and their beautiful relationship .

@ericamacs3875 Месяц назад

@@kay-jay1581 also Michael is a good friend and old friend of Neil G. I mean I guess he might still support him. i never assume that people's friends just dump them in these situations.

@Lex-cp5eg 23 дня назад

My priorities are in a slightly different order. But I appreciate your empathy and care. This well-reasoned response is one that we need to hear. It would mean a lot if David and Michael would speak out. I agree with you that they MUST be disgusted at all of this, and it would do the fandom a lot of good to hear them say as much. But you are right that they are not bulletproof, even if they do seem a lot more insulated from consequences than many of us put together.

@almamater489 Месяц назад

Thank you for mentioning it! I hate how people expect actors (who had done nothing wrong) to just lose their jobs over this. Yes, they're 2 famous well-off guys, but they can get blacklisted for life and companies can actually financially ruin them in a lawsuit. The only one we should blame is Niel

@NewtieTimesSix Месяц назад

as a nonbinary person who was a huge Potterhead back in the day and had it pretty much ruined for me partly directly by JKR and partly by what the fandom reaction to the news, and who got into Good Omens just last year, as you know, literally the first fantasy book and show/movie series fandom (i really like having both those things as i'm a bookworm and fanfic writer who prefers being able to consult a written work for canon accuracy, but I also love video edits, fan music videos etc) that truly caught my attention after I managed to get over my grief for realising I'll likely never feel fully comfortable participating in the HP fandom. So my reaction to the news abt Gaiman was like Oh God Not Again.jpg. do i just have shitty taste in authors or something?

@PartanBree Месяц назад

You made a lot of good points in this, and I was going to share it, but I didn't because I find your tone around David Tennant and Michael Sheen to be a bit uncomfortable. What's caused so much distress around these allegations, and arguably what Neil Gaiman may have been using to gain access to vulnerable women, is hus extreme parasocial influence over his fanbase. David Tennant and Michael Sheen seem like decent people as far as I know, but I don't know them. None of us do. We're not on first name terms with them. We have no idea what they're like in private. I am concerned that if I share this with people who are already struggling to get the better of their parasocial bond with Gaiman, it will only encourage them to transfer that bond to Tennant and Sheen, rather than confronting the fact that it was an unhealthy place to be in the first place, which left them open to exploitation and abuse. We all need to be mindful of the pitfalls of parasociality and try to keep a foot on the ground as regards celebrities we look up to.

@monkeyzorr3090 Месяц назад

People who have parasocial relationships with celebrities need help, not to be enabled

@ohdarah 2 месяца назад

Lauren, thank you for this video. I thought I would have the heart to keep up with this and I really can't. Like everyone here, it is an overwhelming sense of betrayal and sadness for the victims. I can't watch this quite yet i think, but thought to thank you first and will come back again to properly watch.

@magnolia7212 2 месяца назад

Thank you for commenting on this. Oh god. I did not know about half of the stuff you have talked about here. Yeah, I will most likely pirate s3 if Neil is still the showrunner, like with most media I consume. We're a close knit community and we won't let one man's disgusting actions taint it all. Much, much more people have helped Good Omens come to fruition besides Neil.

@perfectlymarvellousmusicals 2 месяца назад

Thanks for this i have been waiting for a response from a source i trust such as your channel because so many people are so scared to speak. I honestly agree with you in that the best thing that could happen is not letting one man destroy a much needed community that extends far beyond him. We all deserve our cottage in the South Downs in this sometimes isolating world guilt free and I hope and pray with all my heart that this situation is resolved where it effects only those guilty and not those who have been saved by what he has created. Thank you for your amazing content it means a lot. Hugs from a fellow Gomens obsessive to anyone who has been hurt by this situation. ❤

@noondarkly 2 дня назад

They paused production on season 3 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

@domperdomper9250 2 месяца назад

I'm so sorry you have to feel this way. But regardless of what happens to the show, please know, that just because gaiman is a shitty person that doesn't mean you are also a shitty person for enjoying something that he co-created. It's all about separating the art from the artist. I repeat once again: just because he is a shitty person, doesn't mean you're also shitty for liking good omens!! Also, very well thought out eloquent take on the situation, sending hugs!!❤

@Kyubone 2 месяца назад

I just found out about this, and I'd just bought the book as well :( But I'm trying to have this mindset that I can separate Neil from the book and the show and still enjoy them, plus what other people have said here, that Good Omens goes beyond Neil at this point (and it's Terry's work as well), so there's that too.

@alexbee6676 Месяц назад

Yes… it’s always difficult when something you love is made by someone who is shitty. I had to learn to separate the man from the music with Wagner.

@mabusestestament Месяц назад

Yeah it’s like Buffy The Vampire Slayer all over again.

@kay-jay1581 Месяц назад

I tried to do that with Harry Potter I was a huge fan for 2 decades! until 2019-2020 happened . JKRowling started posting disgusting crap on her Twitter and being awful to the cast of Harry Potter (including David) seriously that women is a freaking billionaire who could afford to live in many castles!!! And that’s what she does with her free time and money?! Now, when I see Harry Potter stuff I feel angry, betrayed and also sad. I put so much time and love into that fandom. Made lots of good friend in my childhood, teen life and it was a source of comfort during my 20s. And some those stocked with me and are my best friends in my whole life! So yeah no I got rid of my books and anything JKRowling related. I actually like the movies more now because there are actually good people into the production of that series. And boycotted the game. I will never touch it. Good Omens it’s a bit hard because it was the beautiful dying wish of Terry for the book to be adapted! He asked a friend for his help, and that friend turned out to be awful.

@DanQR5 Месяц назад

never meet your heroes or worship them. celebrity authors should not be put on a pedestal.

@JuniaLClark 2 месяца назад

Thank you so much for this

@Barklord 29 дней назад

The advocacy is still important. Some people in the political Right-wing are spinning this as a way to dismiss the issues that Gaiman claimed to support.

@mikeimpressionsreviews9831 Месяц назад

In general we should enjoy the art and entertainment of things but not get emotionally attached to these people imo. We’re both Queen fans for example, I love the music but I am not emotionally attached to any of the members and whatever they do in their lives.

@Avi_yk Месяц назад

thank you so much for saying all of this.

@victoriar4637 Месяц назад

Thanks for this excellent video, on which you make really important points. I also hope that GO3 will go ahead, but perhaps with changes to the show running, or with Neil having been held accountable. I just want to add, re. Michael - he is known to have been friends with Neil, BUT as you pointed out, he's a big charity doner, is a father of 3 girls, is widely reported (and seen) to be genuinely kind and caring, and is a huge advocate of the fandom community which he also loves and respects. He also loves being in the show very much, and the character Aziraphale, and wants to finish this story vhe loved for so long. Although I admire him, I don't think I put him on a pedestal but I would be honestly shocked if he turned out to have behaved in anything like the same way as Neil or anything else like that.

@kay-jay1581 Месяц назад

6:08 I’m sorry he did what!!! WTF

@jenb7756 Месяц назад

Im hurt and angry about the situation bc i hurt for the people who have lost another safe space, bc I have very strong feelings about JK and interacting with her merch, bc I found a lot of healing in this space.

@letolethe3344 Месяц назад

Can you point me in the direction of where I can find the newest stories or allegations? I've been looking for additional news stories and I can't find them. Thank you so much!

@laurenrogers Месяц назад

@@letolethe3344 www.tumblr.com/nebty/755636432096444416/more-that-i-found-while-looking-around-for?source=share

@ericamacs3875 2 месяца назад

I found all this just so tiring when I heard. It's like it's not worth liking anyone. I still do rate his writing of course but why can't he just behave properly and be decent? The actors won't comment. It is partially to do with being committed to Jan filming. But also it's because their PR firms will be controlling everything. So if there is a response it's developed by them. Also it's rare for people to comment on anything sub judice. It would be like a bunch of actors condemning Alec Baldwin. Then his charges got dropped this week and it's very awkward, especially if they ever want to work with him. They need to wait until police have made a decision and see what happens. But I'm hoping Amazon can think of a way to go ahead without him at this point because January is too soon for the legal stuff to be resolved. The best compromise would be if NG released a statement, I get he denies any crime, but he could decide to withdraw from the project in the meantime, and own up to behaving badly, even if not illegally. I don't know why Rachel Johnson decided to go after him, her brother has done a lot worse to all of us. Very strange she is doing this type of podcast.

@alexbee6676 Месяц назад

Totally agree. And thanks for mentioning Rachel Johnson and her odious toad of a brother

@ericamacs3875 Месяц назад

@@alexbee6676 yeh I sometimes wonder how many people who have jumped on this NG story really know her. It's also possibly why it's not a big story.

@sumar207 Месяц назад

Disturbing news, for sure. It’s a lot to process when added to so many other incidents that have come to light about some people perpetrating crimes against other people.

@theanswerisowl Месяц назад

I appreciate your clear stance regarding NG so much. I don't have a good overview of the GO fandom, but the impression I gathered was disheartening as people seemed to either be completely silent on the topic or spouting rape apologia. I wasn't sure whether the ones taking a stance like you did here were even part of the fandom and some definitely were not, i.e. opportunistic TERFs. I hope I've just come across an unfortunate minority. Anyways, this is another reason why your video felt so soothing. There's so much silence, which, while your point about legalities with respect to David and Michael specifically is probably correct, is still rather creepy.

@Lex-cp5eg 23 дня назад

This is what I’ve seen too. I’m in the GO fandom, and I’ve had to step back. Not because the content is different for me (which it is) but because of the silencing and contempt for survivors in GO groups. If anyone wants to point me in the right direction, I’m all ears. I’m a bit concerned now that only the people who are blasé about sexual assault will be left. And it’ll be similar to the JKR fandom in that sense.

@beverlybrooks2736 2 месяца назад

Where do I find the podcast you reference? This is all so awful. 😢

@dandelion_16 2 месяца назад

It's called Master: the allegations against Neil Gaiman. It should be on Apple Podcast and maybe other platforms.

@beverlybrooks2736 2 месяца назад

@dandelion_16 thank you

@EVONOPOLIS 2 месяца назад

Wow really? Neil Gaiman? Jeez... First Stephen king now Neil!? I read Coraline and I deeply admired his work! What the hell is going on? I feel like we are all living in the twilight zone. Now I can't enjoy their stories.

@domperdomper9250 2 месяца назад

@@EVONOPOLIS damn what did stephen king do? (I couldn't find any sa allegations)

@EVONOPOLIS Месяц назад

@@domperdomper9250 He wrote a weird orgy scene with the kids in his it novel. It's freaking weird.

@EVONOPOLIS Месяц назад

@@domperdomper9250 His writing was just very weird, I can't say to much or else youtube will take my comment down but it was the sewer scene in his it novel.

@domperdomper9250 Месяц назад

@@EVONOPOLIS oh yes i noticed he tends to use rape as a plot device :/

@EVONOPOLIS Месяц назад

@@domperdomper9250 It's disgusting and unnecessary. What really angers me is when editors let that stuff get published.

@AnitaLife27 Месяц назад

Just a friendly reminder that Michael sheen knocked up a 23 yo after a graduation party for young actresses. He was 48 at the time. I was a HUGE fan of his, but he’s a slime, and she’s a gold digger. Not a fan of David’s. I was disappointed and disgusted with both of them and their lovers shoved into Staged. I loathed staged. It was so cringe. I also hated Good Omens 2. Was a huge fan of season 1.

@laurenrogers Месяц назад

@@AnitaLife27 is this about Anna Lundberg?

@seraphin6101 15 дней назад

You sound like a celebrity-stalking creep,Anita.

@MoontownMoss 29 дней назад

0:10 Oh right, well I'll find another source of info so.

@seraphin6101 15 дней назад

this is not an airport, no need to announce your departure

@BirgitPa 2 месяца назад

Lauren, I have only one question for you: Can the person that invented such a wonderful story like Good Omens and a more beautiful TV adaptation truly be such an overall monster as you put him?

@samanthabarry5997 2 месяца назад

I mean, people can make beautiful pieces of art, but still be bad people. There is no doubt at all that he has created many great works of art, book wise, tv show wise, and movie wise, but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s hurt people and abused his position of power that he got because of the works he’s created.

@samanthabarry5997 2 месяца назад

Also, Good Omens was made by two people. Neil Gaiman AND Terry Pratchett. It belongs to Pratchett just as much as it belongs to Gaiman.

@BirgitPa 2 месяца назад

@@samanthabarry5997 So, every person in the world can have a good and and bad side, right? But from most people you don’t know.

@BirgitPa 2 месяца назад

@@samanthabarry5997 Yes, but it’s well known, that it was Neil’s idea in the first place.

@samanthabarry5997 2 месяца назад

Oh yes, of course everyone in the world has a good and bad side. It’s human nature. However, there’s a difference between someone’s bad side being, let’s say, lazy, or being judgmental, and someone’s bad side being abusing their authority that they know they have, and using it to persuade young girls into having illicit relationships with them. And yes, I know, the relationships were consensual, but they were only a little older than 18, which, just because it’s legal, does not make it right. And that’s all well that Good Omens was Gaiman’s idea in the first place, but that still doesn’t change the fact that they made it *together*.

Месяц назад

Council of Geeks did a fantastic video (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5xmeEXDFM8I.html&pp=ygUQY291bmNpbCBvZiBnZWVrcw%3D%3D) that puts everything regarding the allegations into question. As far as I'm concerned, Gaiman is innocent & these allegations are another example of many on why MeToo is a disaster. (Thanks for the heart.)

@monkeyzorr3090 Месяц назад

Council Of Geeks are biased and are Neil apologists. By now there are 5 different women who have bravely come forward with accusations. You choosing to not believe the victims only shows what kind of person you are

Месяц назад

@@monkeyzorr3090 The moment you start spawing the word "bias" is the moment that I invite you to remember that nobody is more bias then the person who accuses others of being biased, while claiming to be objective or unbiased themselves. "5 different women who have bravely come forward with accusations" Citation needed. I choose to not believe despicable she-dogs who want fame & money because that's what they're doing.

@ericcornish1983 Месяц назад

When I heard about these allegations it made me think do I get rid of my collection of sandman comics and I came to the realization that it’s okay to still be a fan of the works of the genius that was put forth in his works, it just turns out that he’s become a scummy person who turned to a dark path and made bad choices, we cannot erase these peoples pasts unlike what the whole cancel culture does these days, I’m not a fan of this kind of mentality where because someone has committed a heinous act that we must cancel everything that has ever been created or done by that person, and when you get down to it he’s just a person who made a bad choice and it’s still okay to love the work he’s done in the comics medium. After all the dust has settled in this I’d love to hear what my favourite comics writer Alan Moore would think of all this, he was the smartest of the bunch that worked for DC back in the 80’s and sometime in the the early 2000’s he quit working for DC and went into relative obscurity in his hometown in Northampton.

@kay-jay1581 Месяц назад

“Feel like a sucker” you couldn’t be any more right of how I feel. 🫠 I got into Neil’s work mostly through media. Like Stardust and Coraline. I love that movie more than the book though. Because studios Laika did a masterpiece of art with a simple script. (I’m a huge fan of animation and cartoons, that’s my favorite medium of story telling more than anything else in the world) I’ve been in good Omens fan since 2014! because of the BBC audio dramatization. And that’s the book that made me a follower of his work. I liked American gods, the Sandman, Doctor Who episodes etc. “Lucifer” is sort of an exception since it’s a show loosely based on one of his comics, but he has like nothing to do with the writing and production. It’s one of the best things I’ve watched. In hindsight I’m so glad he has little to do with the tv series. However he is still the reason that “Lucifer” series exists in the first place. And now since 2019. I’ve been fixated on Good Omens half of the work is thanks to Terry Prachet so I hope his reputation is not tarnished since everybody seems to agree that he was an actual good person.

@ericcornish1983 Месяц назад