Game Designer Explains: Why Sonic Mania Succeeded, where Superstars Failed 

People who think Mania is worse because it has less original zones have no idea how quality works 😂

The best way to describe Superstars is that it feels like a lost 3DS game. Had it released on the handheld in like 2016, I don’t think it would be getting dogged on as much, even when it has a $60 price tag and is an overall below average experience. And it wasn’t like they needed Headcannon or Evening Star to develop it. Mania was the perfect blueprint to make a brilliant successor that was more than just Mania with new levels and 4-player co-op. It feels like they knew that people were gonna buy it because of Mania’s success and cranked it out to try and rival Mario Wonder.

the catapillar boss aside, i'd argue that in Mania, even all of the bosses that make you wait to hit the boss easily makes up for it by still making playing the game entertaining during that window of time.

I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Sonic Mania, but I can already see which one will age better. Sonic Mania is a game that can be enjoyed from beginning to end, while Sonic Superstars can hardly be enjoyed for more than two stages without interruptions.

It also doesn't help that Superstar came out 3 days before Super Mario Bros. Wonder. That game also has issues with bosses for different reason and yet, the game as an whole is still an heck of alot better than Superstar. Goes to show that once again Sonic is trying to outweigh Mario for doing different things to beat it's rival and he still fails.

The Shocking Thing is that Mania sold around one million copies while superstars sold around 4.3 million copies

Sonic Superstar brings that sonic 4 vibe to the function nobody asked for.

Personally, Maina has more replay value than Superstars, people like to harp on Mania for not having more original zones (which was because Sega wanted them, not the devs) but those zones are much much better quality-wise than Superstars. That's not to say Superstars itself is a terrible game.

This video is called "Game Designer Explains" so I was expecting you to talk more about game design. Most of it is about aesthetic and concepts. The music commentary is also lacking knowledge about the subject (i.e. what soundchips are) For me, the title really lead me to except something else. If it had been "my thoughts on superstars" I think I would have more prepared for this kind of video. Your video is perfectly fine! Just know that a title like that can lead to a certain expectation different from the actual content. Have good day and keep at it! 🙂

I said ina different comment section that Sonic Superstars feels like an upscaled/remaster Wii game and they jumped me. I still stand by my word 💯

The thing about Fang's theme is that, while it doesn't sound "bad" to me, what it _does_ sound like is... confused. Were I to hear it without that context, I would not be able to tell what it's supposed to be for, and the _last_ thing I'd guess is "bounty hunter boss music". Considering my view of what makes music significant in the first place? That's an even _worse_ failure than sounding bad.

I don’t like Superstars because of it’s bosses they take WAY to long to beat and the final bosses of each story are unreasonably difficult having 2-3 phases all taking at least 7 hits to beat before the next phase and it takes so long to hit between attacks they also have instant kill attacks they drag on too long.

Christian Whitehead seemed to want to make more original stages for Mania, but Sega mandated his team bring back classic stages, and that he include the Phantom Ruby to tie into Sonic Forces. So he did his best to put a new spindash on each of those stages and wrote a better story than Forces involving the Phantom Ruby and the origin of the Hard-Boiled Heavies. Side note: The Hard-Boiled Heavies are some of the most well-thought out and cool designed baddies since Mephiles, Chaos, Metal Sonic and even Shadow. Infinite, The Generic Deadly Six, and The Amorphous Purple Asteroid from Frontiers got nothing on The Heavy King. Whitehead did an interesting interview on the Heavies and how their names and personas were manifested by the Phantom Ruby. The animal in Heavy King’s Egg Robo saw itself as a king, hence the name, personality and appearance. Brilliant!

Sonic mania was the first sonic game i played since sonic mega collection so i was excited when i saw another classic game coming but now im just back to mania

sonic superstar has that sonic 4 kinda vibe

Superstars definetly lacks a proper direction, or rather what it wants to be exactly, wich definetly hurt the game in the long run

sonic superstars failed for stupid reasons honestly its not even because people are tired of classic sonic gameplay

Just happened to come across this video and i have to say, not only do I agree with most of your points but kudos to you for really illustrating your points well. I think one additional point that I would mention that Superstars really lacked was speed. The player has maybe 2 or 3 short opportunities across all of the levels to reach top speed for at least 5 seconds. While we definitely understand its a platforming game, I feel like Superstars really muddled that sense of speed that Mania and Generations got right.

I haven't Mania played that much but I agree it's I played Superstars and notice it's glaring issues 1. It's Bosses: Mania handled them really them really well quick , easy and simple to understand while superstars it's bosses take really long , have too many patterns , long invinciblity frames especially the ones later on in the game to point where they take long than actual stage itself Classic sonic bosses are supposed to be simple , quick , and easy to understand not have long repetitive patterns Superstars bosses don't fit for a Classic Sonic game The Music: Mania had an amazing soundtrack some of them are Sonic CD JP Quality especially in the Act 2s such Metallic Madness Act 2 Studiopolis Act 1&2 , Green Hill , Press Garden I could go on and on but you get the idea while Superstars has an inconsistent soundtrack Some of them are really good such as Lagoon City Act 1 , 2 and Act Amy Lagoon City Act 2 is literally a Modern day Sonic CD Stage Some of sound like Baby Toys or Sonic 4 music such as Fang Boss Fight in Sonic and Some speak for themselves such as Press Factory Act 1 overall the Soundtrack is a mixed bag Gameplay: Mania took everything that made The Classic Sonic games so special and reinvent them in a Modern way it's gimmicks felt natural and part of level itself it's physics are one to one with the other classics but in a smooth 60fps It's special and bonus stages are really fun every character feels fun to play as while superstars some parts of what made the classics special but also took some unfun elements as well it's gimmicks don't feel natural and part of the level itself but feels forced it's special and bonus stages are alright it's special stages are boring in my opinion not as fun as mania' s but still good smooth physics but not as smooth as mania every character feels fun to play but sonic's drop dashing feels nerfed and knuckles gliding and exploration felt fun in mania since you have to explore for the giant rings and elemental shields while in superstars exploration feels pointless you don't get any elemental shields rather than a basic shield and a magnet shield and it's giant rings you collect one per level in mania you can collect five emeralds in one level while in superstars you collect one per level Overall Presention: I and many people prefer mania over superstars but that doesn't mean it's bad but superstars is not worth the full price Mania is worth 60$ if you ask me Mania is smooth from being to end while superstars had some rocks on it's way Side Note 1 : My only grip with Mania is that it reuses old zones from previous Sonic games Side Note 2 : That comment took very long to type

The genesis sound isn’t even bad, it’s just that whoever is in charge of using it, doesn’t know how to use it

There was only one real reason to play Sonic Superstars and that's Amy Rose. the one thing that Mania abandoned.

I think the greatest irony of Superstars' music is that the Genesis titles don't even have what Johnny VS describes as the console's signature "twang", but it goes out lf it's way to be as twangy as possible.

i played sonic superstars but i quit because of the bosses i would rather play origins or mania cause at least the bosses are better

I still don't understand why people have problems with press factory, I mean, the background and the platforms have a counter to indicate when the floor will make you jump, you just have to catch the rhythm. I don't mind the instant death in act two because they give you a generous amount of time to push a button

The game looked great in the trailers but I was really disappointed when I played it

A local theater should do a production of "Waiting for Godot", except this version would be "Waiting for the Opportunity to Attack the Sonic Superstars Boss".

2:48 That sounds like some beta version of Fang's theme, because it sounds so bland and repetitive as if there's no polish applied to not waste much time on idea and melody which could be boring later on...

i would rather play a sonic game that have zones from older games that are fun from start to finish without any bad one and a soundtrack that is pure gold than a game with original zones but barely one of them is above average and the quality rise and drop from time to time and a soundtrack that i can count how many good tracks there are on one hand.

PlexiTier, I love your channel so much, I just had to subscribe!

Personally, I found the throwback zones quite a charming piece of nostalgia, and I didn't mind them at all. I was even impressed that in the Sonic Mania Plus, they brought back the pinball machines from Sonic Spinball (which I have on Cartridge, and have beat). And I have taken my sweet, sweet time on those things.

completely agree on the superstars bosses. I wanna be to blaze in there as Super Sonic damage rush the boss to death in like 5 seconds then move on. And then on later on they give us fake victories on bosses that already took me several attempts to beat. I just completely lost interest about halfway Trip's run because I kept dying and just wasn't having fun anymore

Top 10 reason why mania is so much better than superstar: numero 1: better boss theme. Thank for watching. (edit: mania's soundtrack is enough to beat superstars so ye)

Sonic Mania started as a passion project primarily produced by known members of the Sonic ROM hacking community. Superstars is a corporate product.

the level design in both Mania and Generations suit sonic well.

4:09 Love how they put a wanted poster for fang in the background, maybe that’s where superstars got it’s revive fang thing cuz I’m sure they forgot about triple trouble

Your deconstruction of the "level design" felt a bit too shallow for a video whose title starts with "Game Designer Explains:". I feel like there is much, much more than just stage gimmicks when it comes to sonic level design. The fact that you didn't even mention the structuring and principles that have consistently appeared in 2D sonic level design way past the genesis games, and how they differ between mania and superstars gives the impression that you don't really have the best understanding of what makes a "sonic" level tick; the flow between speed and platforming, multi-tiered intertwining level design, passivity traps, interesting use of terrain curvature, rewarding use of physics based movement, these are things that are all present in both of these games, yet differ in very subtle ways that do end up setting them apart from each other. These are all very nuanced elements that feed into the fundamental idea of rewarding active and skillful play with speed and ultimately define what a 2D sonic game is. I suggest you go look these things up because i think there is a very interesting discussion to be had with how mania and superstars' levels *truly* differ from one another. Basically what I'm telling you is that you should watch all of Pariah695's early "Sonic was Always Good" videos because I've been pretty much parroting a bunch of things he's taught me about sonic LOL please watch his videos they are incredibly comprehensive

People have played in those same classic zones, with the same gimmicks, and heard the same songs for 20 years now (though mania has some fire remixes). Having new zones, new songs, no lives, 3D visuals, not annoying special stages/ ring locations, having gold enemies to find, and being able to swap characters between acts goes a long way for some people (I’m people). I also can’t understand why people hate press factory so much. Just jump, I thought it was really fun playing around it. and momentum jumps with the bounces are fun. Only stages I really would say are wack is the final stage, though I don’t like pretty much any final stage in classic games, and golden capital act 2. Lava reef, oil ocean, metallic madness, Titan monarch , and press garden act 1 can all kick rocks. Almost all bosses from both games can kick rocks. metal sonic, mean bean, hydrocity, and the green guy can stay from mania. the water bosses, the piggy bank, and press factory 2 can stay from superstars. Everyone else is just straight annoying.

I don't have a problem with most of these issues , i just wish if it was cheaper

sonic fans try to like sonic games challenge: impossible

I spent a LOT of time on that Metal Fighter battle in _Superstars_ so I learned plenty of tricks. You can hit the Metal Fighter when it's charging at you.

i liked the game but i know ill just be harassed and told im wrong, which is a shame that its come to that in this day and age i liked most of the main story, bosses aside, its just trips story i hated but i find myself enjoying all of the regular versions of the main stages obviously i dont prefer it over mania, but i still had fun again though, ill be called stupid or something

Lovely video! Please what song did you use during the ending segment XD

I think we have to settle on either 'htting it out the park' or 'blowing it out the water', though I admire your mixing of the two:)

Awesome video and a great analysis on both games!

Fantastic video, but is it me or at 14:32 Eggman's Mech look yellowish here in this video, when all other videos of it it's pure red?

I just got superstars the other day and have been personally loving it. I never could get into sonic mania for some reason

Yes! Someone is finally bringing this up!!! Thank you!!!

Fang has his Triple Trouble theme integrated into the new track.

hey, whats the music that plays in the outro? 19:14

The sonic fandom is stupid :)

Neither are overly bad, Mania does rely on nostalgia for all but three zones, but it's how it presents itself that makes it great. Like how Generations relied on nostalgia for all but the final boss, but changed things up to make them more fun, or Planet Wisp. Superstars is more original for the most part, but it doesn't particularly do anything that sets it apart from the rest of the series, or even other series. Superstars is still good where it counts, but the drawbacks are big enough to dampen the overall fun which brings it down a fair bit.

Maybe if ppl weren’t expecting this game to be as good as mania when THEY ARENT EVEN IN THE SAME DIMENSION, AND THEY WERENT MADE BY THE SAME DEVS

Sonic Superstars should have been a successor to Rush Adventure/Colors DS/Generations 3DS

Hey wait going by the end of this video....do you in fact have any connections to the game known as Spark the electric jester by any chance? 👀

What kind of games do you make?

i've never heard anyone so confidently be wrong about music lingo? hd soundchip? real sounding instruments? what?

This fandom is great keep doing this is why your best fandom

I got a glitch in Sonic Mania chemical Plant were if you hit a Robotnik Box and then go in a pipe you'd be blasted into the air.

These 3D side scroll Son8c Games feel like a fast version of little big planet. 3D belongs in a 360° realm.

Also Titanic Monarch is from 3D Blast, kind of.

Fang the Sniper's theme only has an issue that it is trying to mimic ancient ass Gamegear instrumentals. The melody itself is fine.

I honestly think had they made the multiplayer split screen and different path ways like when you see characters in the background that would have been at least some saving grace also no online co-op of the main story was weird to me even if they added co-op only stages with drop in and out game play that didn't stop the flow.

As for Mania zones, we have 1 from Sonic 1, 2 from Sonic 2 and CD, 3 from Sonic 3&K, (Angel Island doesn't count), and 4 originals. I heard the reason why there are only 4 original zones in Mania is because of SEGA's mandates. So that is another knock against SEGA. Another knock against Superstars is there is no score. Sure you get some points from smashing the badnicks and from finishing the acts but there is no score in display which makes speedruning and ring hoarding pointless because there is no score. And sure there is no live system either but you could get the coins from every 50K points but it's not here. I heard that originally Christian Whitehead team was developing their own Sonic project but it was canceled and replaced by the Arzest dev team. A team that hasn't exactly proven to be amazing and with Superstars they have proven that they are not an amazing dev team. This could be a knock towards SEGA but I imagine that Takashi Iizuka had a hand in this. I mean he was part of Sonic Superstars development. Lastly, Team Evening Star (the Christian Whitehead team) did make Penny's Big Breakaway. Just letting you know.

I am in the wrong for enjoying both? Like... by equal? 😞

You DO know that the classic forces tracks use a real SEGA Genesis right?????

Mania had a few levels that kinda drag at least on the first few times you play through them, but that's about it. Super Stars found a way to annoy me in every level lol.

Sonic Mania just doesnt have the staying power of the other games because all it does past the initial playthrough is remind me of the originals I could be playing instead. Aside from that Superstars level design is fantastic. Its a wonderful game to Time Attack. Its also more feature rich than Mania and moves 2D Sonic forward. Not just clinging to the past, when we JUST had Sonic Generations. I love both games but I barely go back to Mania. Would rather play og Sonic 1 2 CD and 3

Leave it up to the sonic fandom to hate on a previously beloved game out of nowhere for no reason

I actually liked superstars more then mainia but that's probably just me

Mania is a superior game in almost every meaningful way. The fact some people don't understand why is simply testament to why not everyone can do a job like this: Be a game designer, game artist, game musician, level designer, etc.

Not related, but can you change the brightness in Superstars or smth like that

The only thing you said wrong here was that it was trying to be like Super Mario Bros, are we forgetting Superstars came out first you can’t copy the looks of a game when it came out first

😐 It’s not like Mania had a choice like Superstars. After all Mania was marked as “returning to the past” since it was ment to be an anniversary game.

I bought the ps5 disc from gamestop the day it came out (as a 35 year old man which i never do) and was pretty disappointed. Mario wonder has so much more charm, originally and knows what makes mario fun. Id rather replay mania for the 1000th time

i played this game with some friends over steam remote play together, and as some advice: don't do that. ironically, the most highly marketed feature, multiplayer co-op, is riddled with bugs and issues and is honestly fundamentally flawed. if you haven't played the multiplayer, i'll summarize its biggest flaws for you: whoever is in front (usually) has the camera. if a player falls behind and goes off the screen, they get completely despawned and you have to press a button to re-enter (similar to the bubbles in new super mario bros). this happens a lot if people are trying to go separate ways (e.g. to get something like a big ring to enter a special stage) or even if someone is just outright too slow (and this can lead to a bad loop where you respawn only to immediately get kicked off the screen again). some gimmicks and mechanics outright do not cooperate with the idea of having multiple players. this can be seen as early as speed jungle zone, where the light you need in order to see is glued to the leader causing everyone else to be unable to see completely. other significant examples are that only one player can be super at a time (and they lose the form if they despawn from being off screen), there are objects in zones such as sand sanctuary and cyber station which give the player that touches them a huge amount of speed often leading back into the first point, and in the final boss' second phase, the autoscroll speed is tied to the speed of the player in front, meaning whoever is playing sonic can repeatedly drop dash and cause everyone else to die. the game feels abhorrently untested. here's three notable bugs likely tied to multiplayer that caused a significant halt in progress: - at one point the camera in the area with the wind and flying objects started rapidly scrolling to the right, killing everyone instantly before they had any time to jump on the platforms to avoid the death pit below. - after the sky temple zone boss, it is possible for some of the players to clip into the floor when landing. if the game hates you and decides to give those players control over the camera, you are softlocked and must restart the entire stage. god forbid they let you restart from checkpoint. (this one might have been patched? was not able to replicate on a second playthrough) - sometimes in phase 1 of the final boss, the floor will just flicker and become intangible for no reason. (might have also been patched) extra sidenote, there are four acts which are only playable with one person, while everyone else has to watch. these would be perfectly acceptable if they were optional, and three of them are. lagoon city zone act amy is completely unskippable, and looks completely boring and pointless gameplaywise. i wouldn't know this for myself, of course, because i wasn't able to play it (as a reminder, i was playing this over remote play together), despite being the one playing as amy, as it always makes player 1 play the character acts. i have had people make the excuse of "this poses a significant plot point to the story", so what? so does act knuckles, and it's skippable. the knuckles act explains how knuckles has all the chaos emeralds in act 2 if you happened to miss any up to that point, which would be quite confusing if you didn't know that.

I enjoy both Sonic Mania and Superstars, but I think Mania is still better.

I remember being decently excited for this game despite not really liking Classic Sonic but when more news came close to release all my expectations had dropped haha. One of my biggest issues is the Art style/Graphics. Certain Zones look Good, not on the level of Generations like I thought it was going to be, but then other Zones looks so empty and ugly. Pinball Carnival in particular has some background details but then gives up half way by just putting Purple PNG Cutouts lmao.

Before I start this video, all I'm gonna say is, I saw a ton of promotion for Mania before its release. I didn't even see a RU-vid ad for Superstars until 2 weeks after. :/

Lights camera action!

now do sonic 3 & knuckles vs mania. Not lot people discussing that enough since both design in gameplay and levels are much more different than it looks.

Tee Lopes and Jun Senoue (plus a few others) did the music for Superstars. Just let that sink in.

You know superstars is actually very fun most of the time in a world where this is the only sonic game it is one of the most fun games of the year. But there are just some mistake’s particularly the bosses that greatly hurt the quality

2:50 TRIPLE TROUBLE CALLBACK!!!

If Sonjc Superstars was a 3DS Followup to Sonjc Generations (rather than the god awful Sonic Boom games) I think it would’ve been much better recieved

I don’t have Super Stars. But it reminds me alot of Sonic 4. Acceptable, but not really memorable or great. Sonic 4 act 2 wasn’t bad, the dedicated co-op was great. Best co-op in the series.

5:05 AHHHHH MY EARS OWWWW anyways good video you earned my sub

how the heck did you forget to include metallic madness act 1 and act 2 in there?!

I think Studiopolis Act 2 blows Act 1 out of the water, but both are quality tracks. I also preferred Press Garden Act 1 to Act 2. I think it goes to show how varied the tracks were, and how much each one aimed at particular tastes in music.

15:14 Civilization VI reference? I really enjoyed watching this Video. This editing style and interesting theme really caught my attention. Side note: I think the Classic Sonic Pixel style with great Sprites, Animations, Music, etc. is just really Nostalgic or just… Sonic for us! That is the huge Diffrence. Even tho Generations is great, Adventure is great, and yes, I also think Sonic Forces isn’t „Bad“, Classic Sonic is just awesome.

I like both super star and mania equal there both definitely in my top 3 sonic 2D games

Im kinda disappointed that most people didn't like the classic sonic music from Sonic forces. The one you talked about, in my opinion, is actually a good piece of the ost. But i guess that just depends on your taste in music.

I liked superstars(except the boss fights) but I loved Mania!

Some of the Mania levels were too hard. Superstars has a more accessible difficulty level and helps you find the “flow” a little better.

My hot take about music is that both have decent music but when compared to critically acclaimed albums or even some mainstream outings they aren't really good. But they do a good job at setting the vibe of the game but I don't see them required to listen to. Most of the time I mute the music and play Kendrick or something.

I haven't watched you in awhile, your voice got deep lmao

I like both :)

Finally someone understands why sonic mania is better than superstars and take no second thought why its better

Also i recommend sonic megamix mania its awesome fan game and my favorite track is stary night zone

Whenever modern Sonic Team tries to emulate the YM2612 chip they are ao far wide of thw mark it is astounding. Their efforts sound nothing at all like the Mega Drive/Genesis. Im not talking musically (although the compositions never even come close to the classic ones), the synths sound nothing at all alike.

I wish Superstars had aj encore mode where i could switch between the characters.