Game Overs Need to Die 

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Two Alax videos in a week? *THE END IS NEAR!*

Canadian man doesn't discover that Super Meat Boy exists 2019 colorimetric

RelaxAlax: save points suck NakeyJakey: save points are great Me: *confused screaming*

Expect talk about game overs, talks about death animations instead.

Honestly I enjoy Game Overs. They can look cool sometimes and they fuel me to retry to beat the level and not see that same screen another time (at least for a while).

When I die in Minecraft Hardcore mode “Game Overs need to die”

Metal Gear Solid always had a cool approach, saving was more like "recording you mission progress" and the Game Over screen is classic, with your friends actually reacting to your death.

“The reason why I hate failing in video games is because it takes so long just to get back.” Hoo boy, wait till you play Sonic 06 (if you even want to go through that mix of jazz and funk)

In Celeste dying is a critical part if the game. In something like Mario, it happens far less frequently and is more of a subtle slap on the wrist. I don't think its fair to compare both games since they have different goals from each other. Done correctly, Game Overs can create tension and provide some much needed fear for failure, like a horror game.

9:23 “I have a folder of hands” *Kira Yoshikage wants to know your location*

"i have a folder of hands" Yoshikage wants to KNOW YOUR LOCATION

I mean the game over only existed in the first place so that any one kid couldn't hog an arcade game all day so it has no good reason to be in any console game tbh

I love Dark Souls' "YOU DIED" screens. The in your face bluntly obvious nature of it is hilarious.

This video kinda ignores differing game design. Cuphead has pretty lengthy deaths too, but in that time I get to see cool animations, a funny quote from the boss I died to, and a progress meter to show how close I was (or rub it in). Mario maker is cool because I also see how many other people died in the same area. Celeste could have easily done the latter effectively, but dying there is far more expected and common, let alone that each screen is very quick to accomplish once you have the execution, so extra death animations would really add up time. The most extreme version of this is Mortal kombat, where someone can really extend your loss with a fatality and make you watch the entire win pose. If you took that out though, a major unique aspect would be gone from that series. Different strokes for different folks

I think Alax just wanted to talk about Celeste for 13 minutes

See.. but sometimes you need more severe consequences depending on the challange. Mario is (supposed) to be a fairly forgiving game, where as Celeste is not. Celeste would be unplayable without instantly going back to the start of the room. A Mario game giving you game over if you flubbed all your lives on one level is well deserved. The more time it wastes the higher the stakes are and people actually love it. Look at something like Dark Souls (I know, comparing everything to Dark Souls is getting extremely tired but hear me out). Dying in Dark Souls can reset you for half an hour at times. And if you screw up and die twice well it's pretty much the equivilent of a game over because depending on how many souls you were carrying that is a lot of progress reset, not just physical progress in the stage. Why is this extremely punishing thing so attractive though? Cause it raises the stakes, because dying matters. If you are just going to instantly start over at the start of the room you can willingly kill yourself against some spikes just to try again, which is the opposite of what any game should encourage. Game Over do not need to go away. They need to be used appropriately. In games where they make sense and apply the correct the amount of punishment applicable. Which I think they currently do.

You don't want auto saves in a game like persona where your choices matter. Manual saves completely works to your advantage if you want perfect runs

I mean... your not even complaining about game overs for MM2, your just complaining about how slow the death animation is for MM2.

'Only to have Mario die to a barrel that DECIDED to take the stairs' _RelaxAlax,_ 2019 Truer words never spoken.

"Git gud!" -Hornet, from Hollow Knight

Game Over were at there worst when they start you way back at the beginning , which sucks so much

so basically this video is "I dont want to get punished for playing bad, can I get rewarded?"

When you click Start Over to re spawn quicker, but instead of loading at your checkpoint you start at the VERY Beginning of the level.

This doesn't really actually have anything to do with Game Overs. You spent the first half of the video talking about a respawn timer. The video seems to be about dying in general in a game

Hats off to Mario Odyssey for not having lives. *(Pun completely intended.)*

To be honest.. this video needs a major title change. You compared a meat boy-like game to a mario game with the main topic being "game over". Entire video was just you complaining on the Respawn Time rather than the whole "Game Over" sort of talk over all. Theres a MASSIVE difference between a Game Over and Respawn Time. How you view it as "the same" I'll never know.. but seriously. Just relax, Alax. [ i did a funny]

"Do you know anybody trying to replicate Sonic's design because of how much attention its garnered?" Well, we have Freedom Planet.

WEREASS is probably the best invention man kind has made in 2019 XD

Thing is, the games with game overs are usually heavily based around the game over. 1-ups and coins and hitting enemies 8 times in a row would be redundant if there was no lives. It's so deeply rooted into these old games. I think it's much easier for new games to forego those mechanics of times long past because 1) they're modern games with a much more understanding audience and 2) it's easier to build no game overs into your game when you're starting from scratch. To take away game overs from a lot of classic games would mean reworking the games quite a bit--which may or may not always work out.

I find it funny that you used MM2 to as an example of game overs, despite the game not actually having game overs during normal play. The long time between death and respawn is 90% being more faithful to the games it emulates, and 10% leaving time for the switch to reset the absurd level with hundreds of enemies and five bowsers for some reason without melting your switch. Also, It's not a game over, those just don't happen in normal gameplay. There *are* two gamemodes in SMM2 with actual lives and game overs is the endless challenge and the story mode. The prior is a challenge mode, the entire point is to see how far you can get without getting a game over, so it gets a pass. The story mode, however, could do without game overs, and yet you didn't even touch on it. You make a good point, but you used the weirdest thing to try and prove it.

Yeah but Celeste and Mario are very different games. In Celeste you are constantly making risky jumps that most won't get on thier first try, therefore you shouldn't be punished so harshly for making mistakes. Making mistakes is part of Celeste. In Mario, you aren't constantly given challenges as hard as that, so the game hands out harder punishments for failing. If this weren't the case players wouldn't feel pressured to try thier best to avoid death. Making mistakes is what you avoid in Mario. (This is not an argument for game overs. I'm talking about dying in mm2)

Alax: *mentions Hollow Knight* Me: :) Alax: *Doesn't wanna finish it because of walking back to his shade* Me: :/

I recall in band practice that any time you messed up you were lets say "encouraged" to restart a whole section at a time because it would make you better at playing the song as a whole. Like, you would have to play the song by individual parts and then string all the parts together to play the whole song in one take. It would get you better at doing one specific thing so that when you were tested on it later on you would be less likely to mess up at any point. Of course after a while you would get to a point where your like "ugh jeez I've already proven I know how to play the first half of the song, I just need to work on the second half so let me do that and quit wasting my time with the first half" and by the time you got thru thinking that you're suddenly blindsided by the second half and mess up something super simple and feel dumb because you were so focused on the fact that you had to redo stuff that you ended up messing up something super simple in the second part pretty much just proving your band teacher right in the first place. I've kinda thought of game overs like that. It's frustrating, but it'll prepare yourself for any future problems better. Not trying to make this some kinda git gud argument, but it can really help you prepare for the game's obstacles later on. For example, in Dark Souls the area Sen's Fortress has you navigating through an obstacle course of falling boulders, swinging blades, and secret wall crossbow traps. The only "checkpoints" are at the bottom before entering and at the top shortly before the boss. So dying from a boulder would make you restart from the beginning and "ugh jeez I already know how to deal with the swinging blades, why do I have to-" and you die again to the boulder. But once you've died 12 times to the same boulder you figure out how to get past it and the second boulder puzzle isn't nearly as difficult to deal with. Then you get near the top and your like "ooh that last swinging blade puzzle was super challenging but I've made it thru" and if you've been paying attention to the rest of the area then you won't step on the button that shoots arrows from the wall at you (or you'll hit the button but avoid the arrows since there's really only one way for them to come from). Or you haven't been paying attention to the lessons that the game wanted to teach you and you die from the arrows and have to restart the entire area. Again. I feel like some games do the longer death times for decent reasons but overall I would agree that most games just toss it in because older games in the genre did it and it probably shouldn't even be in the game. Hollow Knight kills you and you respawn rather quickly yet Dark Souls wants you to take your time to sit and reflect on your mistakes before you jump back into the game. Although Dark Souls also has terribly long load times so it makes dying in that a bit longer than I think devs really intended for dying to take. So basically, some games probably use it for a reason and others could likely benefit from not having it at all. I don't think the mechanic itself is this nightmare mechanic from the previous century that needs to be burnt at the stake, but yeah overall too many people use it in their games solely because older games they like did it and not because it really fits well in their game.

Deaths in Mario Maker 2 make me want to quit playing rather than making me want to get better at playing. Endless mode instead of 100 man challenge gives me no goals to shoot for. Since I'll never get on any leader boards anyway making 2 levels before game over feels the same as making 30 levels.

but game over, or fail states are important for certain games like x com, fire emblem or the binding of isaac :0

Game overs can be cool The Batman series (I only played Arkham Knight) Will show off villains talking to you before you decide to rage quit or return Me: *dies in game* *Game over screen* Two-Face: It seems the face of death has flipped over for you Me: Oh I'll show you death!

I think gave over's should exist to a point, for example you may not like them in platformers but they do provide insentive to try and improve. And more importantly they exist cause they're nessasary in games like rpgs/jrpgs cause if you didn't gave over after DYING in persona 5 and get sent to the load screen it would destroy rpgs as a whole. "We have auto saves why is this still a thing?" Cause auto saves can fuck you over real bad, I can't tell you how many times I played fallout nv and because I just checked my inventory a second ago it auto saves then a plumet to my death 50 times cause it decided to save there. Or it auto saved as a got shot or something, these are very real problems. Saves allow me to go back maybe more than a couple hours so I can prepare better. I can go "that save didn't work out, let's go to the save I made a week back ingame" Heck some games hinge on that fate extra is like the hardest game if you don't comb everything for items, gear and info and missing a smigde can cost you just as much as playing hard mode persona games. Heck sometimes a gameover is what I need to snap myself out of it so I can rest my eyes, or eat or socialize, take a break. And I'd say nowadays cheekpoints and such have gotten better that it's never really been an issue, *games don't always need to be faster to be good or that isn't the solution to making it better* Sometimes gave overs are visually appealing. Heck like kingdom hearts or not (spoilers for three) There's a game over trick that's a really nice touch and a sweet addition (Spoiler over) Undertale has a cool game over taht certain characters will call out that they JUST killed you so how are you back!? I'm sorry you don't care for them but I think there's a viable list and growing to keep them more than getting rid of them. Again david hack cage himself said "Game overs are a failure of the game design." And look at all his games, there are some incompleteable at points cause instead of letting you game over and try again he keeps the story going despite the growing flaws and plot holes, he's a known bad game designer and people use his games for jokes and memes and criticism (He tried to make a robot slavery game where they used black power as a symbol). Not to mention sexually harasses his female coworkers and is a huge racist. Game overs aren't fun but they also don't *need to die off* cause alot of games depend on them, and even if they did die off? Tehy'll appear in other forms. Again jrpgs literally have a screen that says you died and takes you back to the load screen so you can organize a plan better, maybe you saved in an area where everything's 3o levels higher than you so you need to abandon your top save and go for the next and go a different direction. Idk but that's just me.

I think this video is just about how lazy Alax is. And hey, I agreed with a lot of his points so I guess I’m lazy too

Holy shit, that Yugioh-Ganon joke was perfect! You dare bring light into the Shadow Realm?

Interesting point. I disagree in some aspects because it gives charm to the game and Mario Maker? The gameover screen in Mario Maker is one of the fastest in videogames it's interesting you feel this way about that game.

I mean i said this years ago with the prince of Persia reboot. Everyone was bitching about how theres no game over and how that somehow robs game of challenge " no seriously thats the main reason the game got hate even the gt and ign videos didnt like it. Meanwhile the devs said weve moved beyond game overs and there was no need to waste the players time. Then Mario takes out game overs with odessy and suddenly everyone loves the no game overs concept. Well prince of persia died for our sins first.

Super Meat Boy hasn't been topped since when it comes to player death speed; however, this whole video kinda sounds like Egoraptor's complaints about Ocarina of Time. "There's SO MUCH, GOD DAMN WAITING!" Like so many impatient gamers have been complaining about second long jingles and such lately. Like, if time is that precious to you, why are you playing? Calm the fuck down, it's literally SECONDS. It's like whining that you have to wait 2 minites to microwave a hot pocket. Granted, sometimes load times can take really long. Crash Team Racing has AWFUL load times and online gaming takes a hot minute to find a match. The death animation in Mario Maker 2? A slap on the wrist, calm yo' tits. Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Zelda, Metroid: NONE of these games would be as impactful without those little "You found the thing!" fanfares. I feel player deaths have a similar role in that regard.

"Game Overs Need to Die" Sonic Forces: Let me introduce myself

10:25 Waow I think I understand why you dont like Hollow Knight. That's not even a hard jump

Respectfully disagree with most of your points, but awesome video!

To be honest, I think your dislike for the traditional ways how saving and ingame deaths are being handled is coming straight up from being lazy (as you said youself) or your lifestyle. You said how you put Persona 5 into sleep mode between two saves, maybe your current lifestyle doesn't leave you enough time for a game like P5? Manual saving and interesting/funny/creepy death animations that even take a few extra seconds have their benefits you fail to see and/or mention. Manual and or autosaving can influence the way you have to build your narrative design. In open games like Breath of the wild you can easily go for auto saves since the game doesn't have clear goals that you have to work off if you do not want to. Exploration would take a big BIG hit if the game only had the option to save manually. Auto-Save pushes the player to be a little bit more impulsive and do things because they are feeling like it atm. Having to save before trying something hinders this spontaneity a little bit but since people nowadays often have the attention span of a fruit fly things can change during the saving process. The way a game designer handles the ingame deaths heavily depends on the game. Celeste is one of those "you will die... A LOT"-games with hard to beat gauntlets filled to the brim with insta-death oppurtunities. Games like these often depend on recognition and good ol try and error. Games like these also tend to be pretty fucking fast paced. Try-Die-Respawn-Try-Get a little bit further and then die again- Respawn-Repeat until success. Hollow knight is about action, atmosphere and exploration and the time it takes to get back to that "darn boss that just killed my puny ass" is often for the player to calm dawn since the boss fights in metroidvanias like this can rile you up to no end if you're still new to the challenge in front of you. Metroidvanias are pretty damn slow while exploring the world but get pretty fucking fast during boss encounters or special segments of the game that are specifically designed to be different. A death in a game like this should take the wind out of your sails and make you feel defeated. A longer death animation can help a lot here and if there was a build up to a terrible fate at the hands of the boss can even be hinted at for fridge horror or fully shown so you get an extra portion of them bad feelz when your protagonist meets their demise. This can also be applied to every other adventure game. Mario (because you mentioned the plumber) is the slower more casual version of Celeste's model... which pretty much is an evolved and refined version of the Hard as balls games like "I wanna be the XYZ" or Kaizo Mario. Mario can get fast but doesn't have to be. So the charming little animations for Marios many deaths are right where they are supposed to be... not too long, not too short. Ever played the oddworld games? The games are slow and challenging and also full of atmosphere...the deaths are quick and sudden but linger for a while. You often lose a bit of progress aswell. This, my dear RelaxAlax is all on purpose... just to make you feel and realize your mistakes and soak in the often very intimidating atmosphere you'll find yourself in. People like Caddicarus love these games for a reason... I played and finished many many games in my free time and play even more games for research... while I enjoyed this video a lot you seem to have a pretty narrow minded idea of the way game deaths and saves have to be worked out (of course no offense here!) but that is kinda normal for many many people and absolutely normal to hear from people who only consume games and make videos based on what they consumed...

Yeah, gonna have to disagree with you on this one man, I appreciate the fact that opinions are opinions, but honestly, unironically "Git gud". You see Alax, not every game is the same. Celeste would be one of the worst platformers with slow respawn times and life systems, as well that a Mario game probably wouldn't be as good if you could just start 3 secs before you died. I think one of the best ways how I see game overs is with a game called "Sonic 2", that game sure gave me hell, not gonna lie, and everytime I got a game over, I got frustrated... but, I realized... "huh, it seems that I am clearing Emerald Hill Zone quite faster compared to my previous attempts." I have no idea how to express this weird feeling calling "progression", but that's one of the best things that Sonic 2 gave me, that's why so many people think it's the best sonic game... or even the best platformer game, the fact you start to see how well you're doing levels, and how the most annoying or hard obstacles that gave you trouble now seems like a breeze is just that satisfying. H E C C, that's why the idea of speedruns exists, clearing a game as fast as possible, a.k.a mastering the game's mechanics and seeing how well you perform into a video game. That's why I think one of the most important factors of a video game is called "replayability", the simple fact that you can still have fun into a game even if you already beaten it or even 100% complete it, is what differentiates from good games, to amazing games. (I mean, if you are reading this comment stranger, what's your favorite game? and after answering that, how many times have you played that game? I am sure that number is at least higher than 1. And If it isn't, I would recommend popping your favorite game right now and have an amazing time with it again.) Sure, not every video game should put game overs into them, I mean, how the hell would that work into Super Meat Boy or Celeste? And yeah, not every game needs be mastered to be loved. But I am sure that removing the concept of lives or game overs as a whole would hurt so many amazing games, instead of helping them.

Nobody: Alax: *I HAVE A FOLDER OF HANDS-*

I really do like the stile of Mario Odyssey not having lives but having something of a little value being taken away if you die

Honestly I don't want game overs to go away. Why not have it set to a difficulty?Like you're not going to see a game over on easymode or a practice mode but you could probably have it on a hard or expert difficulty. Just don't exploit them with saves, and game overs can mean something again.

I’m making a video game right now actually, and while I agree that game overs suck, I was struggling to figure out what to do instead This video helped me actually quite a bit

Reminds me of a certain quote I heard once. "Game overs are the failures of a game designer"

Cat: "I can't read." **Talks in text**

Just sounds like you're salty about losing to a bad level in 100-Mario endless challenge to me.

You know what is a lot better than Game Overs ? Wrong and bad ends. Even just simple deaths animations can make game overs almost interesting. Corpse Party is an example, where the wrong ends are very detailed...and disturbing.

In my opinion your idea of "room based" for rpgs wouldn't work since its not punishing you for YOUR fault at failing, especially with persona games ITS YOUR FAULT if you get enemy ambushed obviously barring persona 1 2 and q1 and q2 even with those games you have items and skills to nearly never get enemy ambushed, or its your fault for trying to fight an enemy you know you cant beat. Of course you wont always know an enemies weakness but when you have can eliminate at least 4 of the possibilities before your enemy can attack, or for a lot of enemies you can look at there design like in p5 for the most part *if an enemy is flying they're likely weak to gun*. which makes it your fault for not hitting its weakness or your fault for not being able to cover every weakness your party members cant as the protagonist. The only time i agree room based would work is in persona 4's dungeons where the only save point you can go to is the final floor and if you go back to the entrance you have to climb everything again, which persona 4 golden heavily fixes in its normal difficulty. In persona 3 its not a problem since most of the rooms are small and or the stairs is near where you entered and its easy enough to just run past every enemy to get to the next mini boss floor and then grind a bit on the enemies after you know you can go back and save worry free. In my opinion just respawning at the start of the room wont get a player engaged to get better at the game since there's no punishment, the waiting time to get back into the game isn't the punishment since there's very little waiting time due to a skip button with cutscenes. The punishment is the players needs to redo what he did because the player fucked up. Well i do agree there's points in persona games where you get cucked they're few and far between.

Alternate title: Game Overs need to game over.

TLDR: I ain't like waiting.

"Game Overs Need to Die" Me:"Okay I REALLY believe you !!!"

I think this comments section is a good example of why we can't have any discussion about video games without someone saying "Git gud." Literally scroll down I guarantee you will find something like that. It's saddening honestly

Game over might be an archaic relic of a time when how long you played was tied to how many quarters mom was gonna give you but it also provides a deeper incentive for not dying and makes overcoming an obstacle satisfying I think it’s frustrating but there is merit to it lasting so long

*Slowly Drinks Tea* *Clears Throat* “Hmmmm, Git Gud” *Continues to Drink Tea*

Now microtransactions need to die

Could've talked about super meat boy where you literally respawn the frame after you die

The "Ys" series does this so well. You can save anywhere you want (some exceptions for story). When you load the game you appear exactly where you saved.

I'm glad Earthbound has its game over screen, it's so damn charming and that music, PHEW!

9:24 bottom row, third from the left. Very nice hands, I'd love to get an applause from those hands

The lives in Mario Maker are great for endless mode though.

Guess this guy was prompted to “Press ‘R’ to try again” one too many times.

3:09 “I got all the Bsides” **Doesnt have any of the Bside hearts** wat

I have a feeling that Alan wouldn't like Dark Souls. Or Fighting games. Or any game that punishes you for sucking for more than 3 seconds of yours time.

Alax shared the same philosophy as one of the worst game devs ok existence: *"Game Overs are a failure of the game designer" - David Cage*

"chalenge is what's makes games Fun" "I want chalenge to Go Away because i'm impatient"

"Do you know anybody trying to replicate Sonic's design because of how much attention its garnered?" *Spark the Electric Jester 1 and 2 would like to know your location.*

Nobody: Game over: want to try again? Yes or no? Who is crazy enough to choose no?

to me game overs arent the problem it's how they are utilized.

I think that one series where game overs are okay is fire emblem

I want a full game about how Mario doesn’t tip.

I mean if you're good you won't see game overs, for me a game over is like "you lost relax a bit and try again later"

Game overs and stationary save points still have their place. All the explorative fun and challenge of Castlevania and Bloodstained would be lost if it just reset the room when you died. It's about becoming able to safely push your way to the next save point or warp room

You made a pineapple video about Game Overs and you made a pizza video about death animations. WHY’D YOU PUT THEM TOGETHER?! Oh yeah, ten minute mark.

Celeste is one of my all time favorite games, glad to see it getting the respect it deserves

5:26 literally made me spit out a mouthful of cranberry juice.

3:20 Hotline Miami, a game that will relentlessly drag you through the dirt, the split second you die you press 'R' to restart and youve already started the level

Alax praises meatboy without realizing he is praising meatboy

Wow I disagree with this video so much.

Super meat boy figured this out years ago and I'm sure it wasn't even the first

damn, so many disagreeing people in the comments, personally i totally agree with the video. Games should be fun, not tedious

Without Game Over if the Arcade genre was counted in this as well, then this wouldn't makes anymore sense at all. Have we all forgot that there's the game like GTA and some rated M games where the game over doesn't exist at all, when you can just die then respawn and repeating the same two steps as your heart contents even you die in stupid way as possible. Game Over was just only unique for the Arcade purpose, but if we talked about the non-Arcade video game especially, then it would be an optional if that game wanted the Game Over or not

10:56 and another thing with BotW game overs is that they can be different a lot. Instead of a stupid set animation that will forever make me incredibly angry just by seeing a clip of it, in BotW the ragdoll animation honestly just feels really funny, enhanced by the fact that you know that you know both that you definitely messed up, as BotW never throws your nose or toe straight into a single pixel of spike or any other stupid crap like that, and also you know that even though you did mess up, you can get right back to somewhere close by. Plus, I just love watching Link just fly off a cliff after getting mauled by a Moblin.

“Game overs need to die” hmm yes, the floor here is made out of floor.

Thanks Alax, now I know that not only we need faster game overs but I need the fastest way to buy both Mario maker 2 and Celeste

Alax is doing the Scozz The Wott thing and having a border around his video

I know the number of deaths bit was a throwaway joke, but realistically, those people wouldn't have the morph balls to even TRY Dread Mode in Metroid.

I can’t believe I got 4 shoutouts from relaxalax at 8:26!!

Tbh I agree with the cat. You need to git gud lmao.

If a game has game over then it's game over.

I JUST finished watching another one of your videos and you are back again.... I'm happy

I remember when I would die in Super Mario Galaxy as a kid, and I would super anxiety when the music played. Idk why