Game Theory: Until Dawn's TRAGIC Hero 

"The true victim is Josh." And the parents who have now lost their son and their twin daughters. That must be agony.

Sam is actually the most innocent of the group. She outwardly tried to connect and help Josh after Hannah and Beth disappear. She also knew about the prank on Hannah and tried to find her to stop her.

“Don’t let beth’s yoga pants distract you from the truth” still a brilliant line

“The true villain is a system that doesn’t know enough or doesn’t care enough” that hit home. I for one felt this way about josh and the story from my very first play through. Mental illness is a real thing and instead of helping most ppl including those in doctor positions, just write them off as “crazy” it’s so sad

I'm so glad I am not the only one who felt sorry for Josh.

The true meaning of Until Dawn is Dr. Hill is a terrible doctor.

The three words used to describe Joshs character. Loving: he loved his sisters Thoughtful: meticulously planned this “prank” Complex: you know why

3:27 Man, Mike's beartrap is a trap for Wendigos. Josh wouldn't attach a literal limb to a trap just to attract friends.

4 years later, and still no theory on Sam’s Towel, I mean c’mon??

One thing that I think a lot of people in the comments section seem to overlook is that Josh's actions were probably inspired by his parents' movies. They specialised in gritty horror movies with all manner of special effects. It's hard to say how much of it he came up with on his own, and whether he was capable of seeing the damaging effects of his actions when he grew up around horror movie sets.

Josh's story is so heartbreaking, and something I can relate to. I have BPD and mental health professionals don't like treating patients with borderline personality disorder. We're seen as too difficult, too hard to change. Some doctors plain out think it's either us "just wanting attention" or it plain out is dismissed as existing. BPD is real in my life, it is a hard disease to deal with, and no medicine can fix it like my bipolar can be treated. But I'm not impossible to fix. I've made a lot of progress on my own. In a system where diseases outside of the simple idea of how mental health should like, people with more complicated disorders get shoved to the side or shoved out completely. All my life all they told me I had was depression. But after many suicide attempts they finally determined I had BPD and bipolar along with my PTSD. I've been getting better with the right meds because of it, sadly Josh never got that. And it's so heartbreaking to see unfold 💔

Josh was my favourite character from the start and it angered me so much when RU-vidrs would always give him the awful scenarios. I always wanted him and Sam to get together so badly and I was so upset when he died but I could tell he was mentally ill and it wasn’t his fault about what happened. I’m glad I found this video because I just thought everyone else hated him.

Plot Twist: Josh is actually an Oscar winning actor and this is just a new movie project...

It was just a hank, pran.

This game is what made me fall in love with Rami Malek

But also in Josh's wikia, as well as somewhere in the game it's said that Josh's greatest fear is being absolutely alone. And when Hannah leaves him alive in the caves, he's left alone with absolutly nothing but a corpse and mental health issues, still suffering a lot. And in all of that, with the multiple spirits of Wendigos surrounding him, he went cannibalistic like his sister. And turned into a wendigo, which is sad because he can't be with his sisters in death until someone frees him

actually Sam IS a good person because she tried to stop the prank

When Kylo Ren stabs his father: "IT WAS JUST A PRANK HAN!"

As someone with systematic schizophrenia, I really appreciate that the game devs put him in as a character, so many people just tell me to back off or that I’m insane and I should be locked up but I’m content that there’s people like that out there. I just wanted to say thanks to the game devs and to matpat for spreading awareness for psychosis, and for the cool theory keep it up and I’ll try to as well

" *Hello friends* and fans" There's no Rami Malek without "Hello friend"

Thank you for clarifying that people with schizophrenia aren’t socio or psychopaths.

The bear trap trap was not for the teens, it was set by the flamethrower man, he set it for the wendigo

I so wanted an Unitl Dawn 2 with Josh as the half wendigo. It would have been cool with you'd be able to save him, somehow.

You know, if you think about it, Chris is kind of innocent. He didn’t take part in the prank as he was seen passed out with Josh. Also, depending on your choices, I would argue that Chris is the nicest guy in the group

Emily: It was just a prank, Han. Matt: **Doesn't grab Emily's hand** It was just a prank, Emily.

Hanna gets severely injured and beth dies "ITS JUST A PRANK HAN"

I've ALWAYS felt this way about Josh!! And the other characters are so incredibly quick to blame him but NO ONE talks about how responsible they are for the deaths of Hannah and Beth! I feel extremely bad for Josh... As a matter of fact, he's my favorite character.

Josh was my favorite character in the game I’m sad he never got a happy ending I just want to give him a hug

IT WAS JUST A PRANK, HAN!

Everyone: involved in a prank that kills two girls Everyone: lol it’s fine it was just a prank Josh:pranks the people who killed his sisters, pranks don’t cause anyone’s death Everyone: JOSH IS THE CRAZY ONE HERE!

12:45 “The true monster is pyschological disorder. It strikes randomly, has no mercy and gives you no chance to escape. No chance to run and hide.” damn.... that really hits different.

I also found it very interesting that everytime you "visit" the psychiatrist the atmosphere gets more threatening and darker. The doc also seams to get more aggressive and the building looks more and more broken. Maybe Josh felt threatened when going to the doctor and feels unsafe when he is there. I know it's just a minor little detail but when the doctor asks you questions for example: "What are you more afraid of?" and you always answer with "Snakes", on your next visit there will be a snake in a glass on the table. Maybe Josh was trying to open up, but then was scared to get confronted by the doctor and felt helpless in his hands. Also I noticed that it always feels like Dr. Hill ends the session in the middle of a question. It always made me feel like he wants to get rid of you as fast as possible. I also think Josh particularly chose Chris and Ashley for his game to get them together. When Josh and Sam go down the basement, depanding on which option you choose, Josh says something like this, regarding Chris and Ashley: "Maybe they need some sort of traumatic experience to get together...." As you said: He is delusional so maybe he truly thought to help Chris to get with Ashley. What I also thought was kinda strange that Hannah, as Wendigo doesn't seam to be as beastly as the others. When Mike and Jess are in the cabin and well... starting to have a fun time we see that the Wendigo is watching them. It could easily break the window but it watches them. Also it places Jessica's phone right on the doorstep for her to come out. The Wendigo could easily kill Jessica and then go after Mike, but it just draggs her away. I'm not a 100% sure if it is really Hannah, but if it is her she might be jealous and wanted to get Jessica.But this "theory" kinda outplays itself when we clearly see that Hannah (as Wendigo) can crush Josh's head... So yeah I just recently replayed the game and now I'm obsessed again. xD

Perfect description of Josh's schizophrenia. Until Dawn has one of the most beautiful depictions of untreated schizophrenia that I have ever seen in a video game. That said, nothing about what you said is a theory. The game makes it pretty clear that Josh has untreated schizophrenia if you pick up all the clues

As someone who takes both antidepressants and antipsychotics let me just say that antidepressants can aggravate schizotypal symptoms if they aren't being countered by an appropriate dose of antipsychotics so not only was Josh being treated for an illness he didn't have, the one he did have was being worsened by the wrong treatment

Felt like you missed a bit with how Josh wanted some of the things he planned out to help get Chris and Ashley together.

"They‘re 18 and 19 years old" "Under the age of consent" no dawg that’s not how that works

Chris was unconscious as well, out cold with Josh.

I think the bear trap the caught Mike wasn't a trap set by the psycho (aka Josh) but instead a trap set by the flamethrower guy to catch a Wendigo. It said in his journal that he would set traps in the mountains with human limbs (which he said were not needed anymore by the dead corpses in the mourge) to catch the Wendigo monsters so he wouldn't have to kill them and set their spirits free to possess another victim.

Josh was my favorite character from start to finish. he's charismatic, hilarious, great story arch, and just seems like a cool guy to hang with..

The og theme never gets old.

"Until dawn aint getting to me" *JUMPSCARE* *SHITS PANTS* I think it got to him.

Finally someone else feels the way I do about Until Dawn. I hated that you couldn't save Josh. There was always obviously something wrong with him. Josh's whole part in the storyline is sad. I always felt sad for his outcome, and the fact that his sisters death made it worse. Also everyone else in the game is a bunch of douchebags. Except maybe Sam and Chris. Maybe.

Fun Fact: This episode is the highest rated episode of Game Theory on IMDB with a 9.4/10 just beating “FNAF Sister Location DECODED” which has a 9.1/10

I believe there's more to josh than being the villain here, imagine having friends, some known long enough to be considered family and because of them he lost two sisters in one night completely taking his quality of life away where he has to be medicated probably way more than before to just barely scrape the surface. What he did wasn't right and they weren't in the right either. He was ill and the trauma made it way worse and i feel so sorry for him because i can't imagine that feeling and i understand where he comes from but what he did to counter his feelings wasn't right and should've stayed on the medication, but overall he was never a bad character or villain. Trauma and him being ill as it is, he couldn't think for himself anymore

Well I mean Chris was passed out drunk and Sam tried to stop it. They weren't really to blame for the prank.

Chris never did anything wrong; he was blackout drunk along with Josh. He never contributed to Hannah/Beth ultimate death.

The prank they pulled on Hannah was especially cruel when you consider that she was the "shy girl" who was a bit sheltered, sensitive and very nervous. That trip to the cabin was the FIRST TIME she went out there! Imagine if you went to a high school party for the first time as a shy, socially-awkward bean and got ruthlessly mocked by someone you had a crush on, while everyone else laughed. That trip to the cabin was her first time coming out of her shell, and everyone knew that... "It wAs jUSt a pRANk hAaAAaaAnnnN!" I've always felt bad for Josh. It was obvious to me that he was mentally ill and he was already suffering from the loss of both his sisters, but apparently some folks missed this. I think it's easy to not take Josh's illness seriously because this game is so campy (in the best ways! Still a great game!), but it really can hit home when you look past the camp. I don't believe his illness excuses his actions, but it definitely explains them and it's sad to imagine that he went undiagnosed. I wonder if his symptoms started to hit home right around the death of his sisters... That might have been so hard to catch, especially when you have a grieving family at the same time. Welp, now that family has no children. I wonder if we could get an Until Dawn sequel starring Josh's parents in some way... Maybe they'd confront all of the kids that went to the cabin. I mean, seriously, TWICE they went to the cabin and got their kids killed. First the twins, then their surviving son. There is a lot of potential here... Especially if Josh remains alive as a wendigo.

I come here after playing The Quarry. I miss this game and the characters sm.

Game theory made a CinemaSins reference. My life is now complete.

Can we take a second to talk about how a random RU-vidr knows that a fictional character has schizophrenia yet half of the time psychiatrists can't prescribe the right medicine...?

Well Sam AKA Kirby is the only person who wasn’t in on the prank and she was looking for Hannah

me: **sees fluoxetine** also me : *"haha i take that"*

I'm here after Rami Malek won his well-deserved Oscar

I need a remastered version within the next 5 years, with josh getting a happy ending

Still waiting a theory about Sam’s towel.

I think Dr. Hill was actually good. In most of Josh's hallucinated therapy sessions, Hill came through to me as the "voice of sanity" in Josh's psyche, telling him he need to stop because the prank bad for him. Also, he got more and more injured as Josh deteriorated into madness

As a Paranoid Schizophrenic- as I know to believe when on my medications- this made me cry. Finally, someone who understands that I’m not a psychopath at heart. Someone who finally understands the value of love and care. I’m so done with people telling me to rot in an Asylum and to be treated by doctors like Doctor Hill. Josh was the only true character who I understand. The hallucinations (Psychosis), the behavior that I never remember doing... all of it. Thank you.

I think it's also worth mentioning that the Wendigo is symbolic of Josh's inability to escape his disorder. Josh is killed directly by a monster that is born from desperation. The Wendigo was unleashed when humans were forced to eat their fellow humans because they had no other options. Josh was forced to endure the results of misguided medication. I think that makes this story all the more interesting.

I want a sequel we’re we get to return josh back to normal

Thank you for covering and speaking on his behalf! I've loved this character so much, it made me so upset when I found out no matter what choice was made that he'll always wind up dead or undead. It's nice to hear someone speak kindly of him instead of berating him for his "childish revenge".

18-20 is legal age everywhere. most places it is actually lower.

“The village bicycle were everyone gets his ride” I CANT BREATHE

I feel like him being worried and confused when he hears Jessica is dead adds to the fact he’s not entirely lost or psychotic at all

12:53 Honestly this is a really sad truth, like... The system isn't good enough at the minute, people aren't getting the help they need (some are and to them I'm happy for) but some people just aren't

Can I just mention that any horror game with the suggestion to NOT MOVE is almost as cool as one telling you to not make a sound when you're wearing a headset because then that means even the slightest movement will kill you and this is a realistic thing. if a monster or even animal that bases it's hunting skills from movement senses you moving, you are dead and to think people are criticizing this mechanic is kind of sad because this is probably as close to said "Don't make a sound" mechanic we'll ever get and it's also very realistic because if you are scared and holding a controller, there's a good chance you'll be shaking so this tests your ability of willpower at the same time.... continue on.

Man I think Chris was a good character because he isn’t able to kill anyone and he was passed out with josh when his sisters died

@styletheory still waiting on that "Sam's towel theory"

That’s what was the most haunting thing about this game for me, that Josh can never have a happy ending.

Just want to point out that the bear trap was not Josh's prank.

I have a very close friend who's only now being diagnosed with schizophrenia, after having a diagnosis for ocd and manic depression for about 5 years and yea understanding mental illnesses is so so so important

One thing which I also like to say is that you are also the villan in this story I’m some ways. You can make them do the horrible actions and get them killed. You are the one who is causing them to live or die either purposely or by doing mistakes. Heck you can even do stuff like improve Emily’s relationship with Matt by doing certain choices, you are the one deciding the character’s fates

Schizophrenia is one of the hardest mental disorders to diagnose because of how the diagnosis path treats it. The Rorschach test was one of the most effective ways to reach a diagnosis of schizophrenia but it fell out of practice due it being so prevalent in media.

The ending to this video actually made me tear up a bit. My brother passed away April 22nd, 2014. From a unique seizure that caused him not to be in his right mind and caused an accidental unaware suicide. But prior to it all, he had passed out in the bathroom roughing up his face pretty bad on the floor vent. After seeing a doctor and being told everything was fine, the next day he went to work and crashed his car through a metal rail and landed in an embankment. Nobody was hurt, however he had some bruises and the car was ruined. But again... he was given the all clear sign from doctors. And the next day at work he passed out and was rushed to a hospital by ambulance. And of course... no help was given. The next day would be his last. It all struck so suddenly, and he was vigilant about trying to get help. And he was scared. And nobody did anything for him... he didn't get a choice. I miss him so damn much it hurts. After he passed I met 3 females with the exact same type of seizures. Who were getting sufficient care. I took it as a sign, and have been currently trying to start a charity in his name for that specific type of seizure. Anyway, this video was really REALLY great. Not only did I love the game, but this theory really shines a great message on the villain of mental illness and other issues in the like. Thanks Mattpatt!

I never got Jess in her underwear because I was gentleman and she shared her insecurities with me. Chivalry my friends.

I think the reason Josh isn’t redeemable is that he tortured Chris, who had nothing to do with the prank.

“He tortured his friends and yes, that’s really bad” *Spoiler alert* His friends got both of his sisters killed...

Maybe Josh goes after Chris a lot because he feels he betrayed him most cause they were both passed out but Josh didn't know that. They were best friends and he thinks he contributed to his sisters death. For Sam, he also doesn't know she didn't contribute. It's kind of obvious that Josh liked Sam so he feels she also betrayed him more than the others... He's closest to them and even though they're the two good characters, they "betrayed" him the most. Edit: If you're someone who thinks Josh doesn't like Sam, then another addition to my comment is this: Sam and Hannah were best friends. So Josh may also of gone after her FOR his sister.

Okay just to be clear, Sam and Chris had NOTHING to do with the prank. Sam refused and Chris was passed out

“Until dawn ain’t getting to me.” ...let’s put that on the ‘famous last words’ board.

josh has always been my favorite character, he commits unforgiveable actions, but he needs help more than anything

2:40 Don't feel bad, since they may be supposed to be 17-18 years in the game, they are still portrayed by actors that are 25-30.

I KNEW I LIKED JOSH FOR A GOOD REASON

I don't know why but this video is to me my favorite yet. I always come back to this one just because of how much it intrigued me

Worst part is that an SSRI will actually intensify delusions and paranoia if you have schizophrenia instead of depression. Think of taking 5 shots of espresso to help you fall asleep.

"Until Dawn Ain't Getting Me" *Screams Within Two Seconds*

"Until Dawn ain't getting to me" -Famous last words

Just wanted to say that it is also possible Josh could've had a little known mental health disorder know as Schizoaffective Disorder. Schizoaffective Disorder is a combination of both Schizophrenic symptoms and symptoms of a Mood Disorder like Depression or Bipolar Depression. However if this is the case, MatPat is still technically right about how Josh's doctors are failing him. For treatment of Schizoaffective Disorder to be effective both the Schizophrenic and the Mood Disorder symptoms need to be addressed with the proper medications and therapy for both of these disorders. By only medicating Josh for Depression and not his Schizophrenic symptoms and not addressing Josh's Schizophrenic symptoms while he's in therapy his doctors all failed him.

He deserved better. He was always my favorite character, and the reason i fell in love with Rami. Josh. Deserved. Better.

This is in my opinion probably the most plausible theory yet.

I don't really agree that all of the teenagers were 'evil' or actively murderous (with the exception of Ashley, who I kinda think was just sorta dazed by the whole situation and wasn't actively motivated to do anything because of the lack of Chris' affection, but I'm getting off track) 1. Chris was not a part of the original prank, along with Sam, who knew about it but didn't stop her in time. 2. When given the option to shoot Ashley or himself, Chris points at himself first, and Ashley says "Please, if there's one last thing I can do in my life let me do this!" (Following which she doesn't open the door if you do so lol. #AshleyLogic) 3. Matt, when you say he 'abandons' Emily, he doesn't really. If you hear the dialogue, he was simply trying to find another way to get to Emily (Who btw could have easily jumped off herself), and is actively concerned for her after the fact. 4. Mike believed that Emily was going to turn into a Wendigo, maybe not based off of much, but that was highly influenced by adrenaline. Purely opinion on my part. Argue with me if you wish.

This one of my favourite videos on RU-vid, such a great analysis of such a great game.

Some of my family is schizophrenic (one is severely) and just watching the gameplay hurts watching josh because it makes me think that this is what sometimes goes through my families MINDS. I seriously have sympathy for josh...

I really like this analysis, but I'd have to disagree. The true TRUE hero is clearly flamethrower guy

So................ we're just gonna ignore the towel? k.

Mat we're STILL WAITING on the Sam's towel theory

the fact that matt gave a better description and look on schitzophrenia that actual medical shows is amazing

Really dude, just get a job as a profiler for the FBI

The hand trap that resulted in the removal of Mark's fingers wasn't designed by Josh. It was a moving hand designed by Mr. Exposition himself (the unnamed hunter) to trap a Spider Zombie, because they sense movement. It was also mentioned in his journal that he removed dead human limbs (since they didn't need them) to aid in luring and trapping SpiderZombies. I just realized this while watching through a playthrough.

I loved Josh, learning more and more about him through the game made my heart break for him seeing how his story ended 💔

I’m coming back to this series years later and it still holds up I remember watching this in my grandma’s basement