Trev - glad to see you uploading new videos again, and this one is excellent! I've never seen a side-by-side comparison of MIG brazing, Gas Brazing, and TIG welding. I learned a lot about the relative properties of each process. For the record, bronze is made primarily of copper and tin. Other metals are added to make different 'flavors', such a silicon bronze, aluminum bronze, and phosphor bronze, but silicon bronze is the most widely used in the automotive arena.
Thanks for the info Ron 👍 a couple of years before I left the accident repair trade things started to drastically shift with regards to welding modern vehicle body’s. Manufacturers testing mig welded high strength steel outer skin panels were finding that the welding process weakened the metal either side of the joint and introduced cusi3 silicon bronze mig welding plus many other bonding and riveting processes. Up until then the repair methods had gone largely unchanged for decades! I thought my opening scene where I was holding my sill panel had more than a little Ron influenced type presentation. Much love to you 👍
@@trevsblog Trev - I was much impressed with the clean sheet of plywood as the background, and the gleaming metal panel! Well done! I visited the Audi factory in Germany a few years ago, and saw the robotic MIG welding of the roof panel, which is done with silicon bronze filler wire. The weld is ground smooth robotically, too, and they have a special dressing tool for the grinder to get results that are amazingly consistent - requiring no hand work at all.
@@RonCovell what worried me was the variation in repair quality on these high strength steels. Contamination of steel surfaces before bonding would drastically alter the adhesive properties of the repair. A bronze Mig I once used was preset and had no power adjustment and would melt holes in steel, when it was serviced the maintenance guy said that it had been programmed incorrectly… this was after months of use by guys that didn’t care enough to mention it to the management that probably wouldn’t have listened anyway. Perhaps fully automated is the way to go at least the consistency is there.
Trev i never tig weld i been in the autobody trade for 11 year's 5 doing body work and tig welding is new to me .I appreciate all the tips you provide with all your knowledge thanks Trevor.
Hi Trev, good to see you back with more video's. For those interested. You can butt weld two pieces of mild steel, with no gap between them, to a metal thickness of 1.6 mm. Weld using a circular pattern along the join. You only use filler wire if there is a gap and that gap should be the width of the filler wire. The filler wire ideally is an off cut of the material you are welding as filler wire you buy is high tensile and hard to tap into shape. To prove a point, my welding instructor told me to weld two pieces of sheet mild steel in this manner. He put the welded pieces over a hole in an anvil and beat the crap out of the join. A crack appeared across at right angles to the welded seam. That was about 30 years ago at night school.
Trev, again, thank you so very much for the mention of Viper Powder Coating in your video. From the bottom of my heart, I'm so honored to call you my friend. I'm working on getting some new content together, now that the new shop is up and running! Much love to you and Tracy, always. ❤🌴😎
Trev, mate! I am absolutely speechless. Thank you so much for the plug and your kind words. I am so so grateful. I noticed a bunch of new subs in the last 24 hours and had no idea what was going on until someone made a comment saying you sent them over. Thank you mate, I really appreciate it.
Thanks Trev for showing the different processes and their strengths/ weakness. Beyond that I don’t have anything beyond Ron saying he was impressed? Hang his comments on the shop wall to review when your feeling down. Congratulations sir!
Like your videos, good info. I just started to involve Silicon Bronze in my metal projects. Found out that if you weld it on AC you get a lot cleaner weld/braze . Cheers from Norway!
Great to see you back Trev. I have learned a lot watching your vids. You are a true master of your craft. Since watching you I have finally gotten the nerve to tackle my 59 Belair I’ve owned since 1987. Just finished the trunk drip rail, had to fabricate @90% of it. Now I’m doing the trunk floor and tail panel. You were an inspiration bud. Thanks from NC USA
Fantastic video Trev! Thank you for the wonderful shout out and promotion on here and on facebook! Truly appreciate it! Glad to see you are doing videos again! Can’t wait for part 2 of this one
Big thank you for the effort put into that demo, you must have the patience of a saint . That's my trouble, don't practice enough ,go straight into the job ,then if I muck it up the dummies out .
Once again I am very impressed with you Trev. If Ron Covell watches you (visa versa) I am fascinated. I have your hammer by my bench as a constant reminder of your work and as an inspiration.
Even though Ron is probably one of the most famous and well known metal shapers in the world he is a considerate person towards other people, a rare trait indeed. Cheers Trev 👍
I’ve never seen a brazing rod with flux in small groves. All the brazing rods I’ve ever used was, and still is, sleeved with a coating of white flux. Thanks for sharing 👍!
Missed you trev as watch you and Ron covell a lot plus few other metal guys on you tube I wish I’d of gotten into metal stuff more years back than I am now. I blame you guys for me buying hammers etc and yes mrs has found out how many I’ve got
Amazing , your the first person who sets a neutral flame the way I was taught to ... most seem to set a neutral flame thats way too carbonising it seems to be the American way. And a nice smooth flow rather than colder dabs , a true master class on how to braze the old school way ... a joy to watch. You should have done the same strength test on a tig welded joint too , maybe against a gas welded joint as a comparison , just a thought.
Thanks Tom I appreciate that viewers like shorter videos and as I’ve already strength tested a TIG welded joint on a previous I thought I’d leave it out. I’ve personally found welded steel whether gas or TIG very similar in hardness and strength but aluminium always seems to be harder and more brittle TIG welded. Unfortunately I’m not experienced at Gas welding aluminium and that’s something I’d love to be good at. Thanks for your comment much appreciated from a fellow Gas welder 👍
Very interesting differences between brazing on thin sheet steel to brazing or silver soldering thick bits of metal together. Many thanks. Also, I can see why you like TIG so much.
Things I found with TIG brazing - I "long arc " it looks a bit like a micro gas torch flame . As you found , you need more amps than you think , and up your travel speed -I just stop and rest if losing control . I keep the arc just on the actual "puddle" of the filler and proceed down the joint that way - This helps avoid melting the parent metal and thus welding . Whenever possible, I use copper backing . Overall , for me personally , TIG brazing is handy if I want to make thumbscrew type fastners from galvanised bolts , as TIG brazing is less likely to fire off the galvo , but I only use galvanised stuff if I haven't got stainless
Nice video Trev. The distortion on the two first patches is due to the overlapping as the metals heat different and as a result they contract different regardless of the filler rod you be using. Very neat informative video.
You might want to make a damn on the back side so you can purge the backside with whatever inert gas. The brass also work hardens. The only time I braze anymore is when I'm Brazing tool steel or carbide or cast iron Where cracking is a problem. Thanks for the video.
Another great video, thanks Trev! I used Quicky's design for my own English wheel (i used some cheaper, narrower wheels) and I'm really happy with it. I actually used it today to make a heat shield for turbo!
Great video 👍 Trev not to confuse thing's more you could use thinner filler rod or hammer flat to thinner profile the filler rod.Next video do a Butt and cut mig weld like fitzee does.
Great video, as always. Impressive how strong the last brazed joint was. I've found silicone bronze tig braze absolutely brilliant for filling in isolated rust pitts - where the metal is to thin to weld up without blowing a hole, but the tiny bit of localised rust doesn't warrant cutting a hole for a patch panel. It will flow through tiny pin holes and leave a tiny limp of braze on both sides which you can then grind flush. The silicone bronze doesn't really flow when running a bead (like into a lap joint) - it builds up a fillet much like tig welding. I'd read aluminium bronze tig brazing does flow much more like gas brazing. I only have some in 1/8" rods (thanks Iain!), so far too thick for bodywork, but experimenting with it, my first attempts were awful. It wouldn't wet the steel at all. Very much like when you go to weld aluminium and have left the machine set to DC by mistake. So I tried the aluminium bronze tig brazing on AC. That seems to be what the aluminium bronze needed - it wet and flowed across the surface easily, much like gas welding. About a 20% AC duty cycle seemed to do the trick.
Hey Trev, so good to see you’ve had time to post up a vid. I think with your calm nature, great communication and amazing skill set you would make a smashing college tutor. Have you ever thought about it? Passing on your skills to either evening classes or full time?
I’ve been offered jobs taking classes etc. I would be hugely interested in doing this kind of thing but something else that I enjoy would have to go to make room as I’m busy nearly every day of the week. In a funny kind of way making videos is a way of doing this on a mass scale. Cheers Trev 👍
Hi Trev ,,big fan of your work,,something you might try lay wire technique instead of dabing you can go a little hotter and much faster ,works good for me as far as keepng the distortion down
Great video Trev!! Excuse my ignorance but did I miss something. The last patch you did with the Tig on the sample panel was overlapped but it came out level? What am I missing? Cheers Mate. John.
I believe it is provided you can get access behind to beat out the distortion. You can almost end up with something that is as close to not being welded. Mig is still ok but is harder to dress out if needed. Cheers Trev 👍
Excellent one again👏👍 When preparing my racing car in the ‘70s I only ever used O/A for brazing of structural and certain suspension parts where there was ample thick material for the brazing to adhere to. Body parts where always gas welded, but TIG now due to the prohibitive costs of O/A. Must say that what little bodywork I’ve done so far, TIG produces so much less ‘heat flow’ either side of welds. No doubt there is a technical word for ‘heat flow’ but brain on strike following my stupidity in amputating the tip of my left thumb in the hinge side of front door last month🤬🤬🤬 You don’t realise just how much you use your thumbs for! Doing buttons up is now a 🤬 ordeal 🤗😂
@@trevsblog Thanks Trev. It was the front door of property and it did a perfect job, needing some plastic surgery to sort out. Will now have a thumb with half length nail once healed 😳
Years ago I bought an engine from a 1300 GT a series. It was still bolted to the hydro elastic subframe in the scrap yard. I helped haul it over to a guy to cut out with a cutting torch. As I dropped it down I had my finger inside a hole. Something very sharp cut the top of my finger clean off, through the nail! Remarkably it grew back perfectly 😁
Hi Trev .your hand works are incredible 👍 İ have a willys truck 1960... And İ need front fenders ( left and right) but İ couldn't discover in turkey... Can you help me about willys fenders?
I have been watching all your videos, and I bought a PrimeWeld 225X Tig machine recently. I have to put both new rear wheel arches in a 91 Honda Civic I'm restoring. My Question is this, as a novice welder, I realized quickly that I would have much better control using a Tig to do this work than a mig. I would like to know what you would suggest for how to install these? I have an air flange tool so I could make very nice lap joints, but I have a suspicion that butt welding these would net a better finish. But how should I handle the back side when I cannot get in there to seal up the back side once welded in place. This i is what makes me think it might be better to lap joint it, and paint the back well ahead of time, and just make sure I don't burn through. I even thought of maybe drilling the top layer, with a little bevel countersink, and then lay some filler over the hole to kind of fake a spot weld in there......I don't know. There seem to be a lot of different approaches. I have thus far just been experimenting with using 6011type 1/16" sticks and running electrode negative super low amps (like 17) but I cannot seem to get a good weld to adhere to the edge of my lap. Butt welding works better using stick, actually running in AC mode on a frequency of about 90Hz I have had good luck..... I have not used the Tig torch yet, because I don't have gas yet. Still have tons to learn.... Also, do you think I could roll my fenders before installing them on the car?
Flippin heck Jon lots to answer there mate 😅. Firstly have you watched my how to TIG weld series? Lots of info on there about butt welding using TIG. Definitely butt joint not lap. I used to lap stuff but it’s a bad idea to be honest. There are many approaches! Indeed! I’ll run a few ideas passed you. If you’re replacing the outer arches I’m guessing the inners maybe a bit ripe also. Have you thought about what you’re going to do about that? Here’s a thought. It’s possible to cut off your outers then use the inner to line up your new arch, tack the new arch’s into place. Then cut out the inners. This then leaves both sides of the new outer arch joint accessible. You can then planish and metal finish the welded joint, even epoxy paint it inside before reinstalling the inners or fitting new inners even. You could also mig the inners as hiding the joint obviously won’t be such an issue underneath the car. I’d roll the lip after you’ve fitted the arch (if you’re talking about stopping the tyres from scrubbing the arch lip) using one of these tools that attaches to the hub. Always DC when welding steel AC for aluminium. Hope this helps 👍
@@trevsblog How did I know you'd get back to me quickly with such a well thought out answer? I'll tell you: because in one of your videos you specifically told us that you don't actually get the notfication if someone replies to a reply, it has to be a reply to your original. Otherwise you only see the question if you scroll through all the comments reading everything manually. THAT is someone who really cares, and I appreciate it. It speaks volumes in support of your character. Thanks for the advice, I do have some issues with the actual fenderwell part but not so much the inner wall behind the outer skin. The jack point where all three of these things meet up in front of the wheels (rear wheels) is mostly still intact on one side, but on the other, there is some rot there too. So I am not sure how I want to approach that, the only thing I do know, is I don't want to take it to someone else and have to pay hundreds and hundreds to get it done. I loved all your videos on actual metalforming and making custom shaped panels. Most of the body parts for this car are not available anymore, and all the aftermarket stuff is out because I am trying to restore to stock condition (mostly). I don't have a mig. I found a good deal on this Tig, and decided I could do just about anything with that, it just might be a little trickier. 1. Where can I get one of the ?dolly? things you use regularly, (the smooth rounded asymmetric thing you pounded the metal over/around as needed) and the spoons are large files you modified? 2. What tools will I really need to get these installed? I already have a die-grinder, belt-sander, 10K reciprocating air saw, various hammers, and a flat workbench (wish it was bigger though) 3. Do you have another contact method that you would prefer to use? (I promise I won't abuse your time)
@@crusheen I still use eBay for most of my stuff. Lots of great secondhand tools turn up if you’re prepared to keep looking. I gave up hunting for tools at autojumbles years ago. It’s harder to find panel beating tools compared to mechanics tools. Lots of c grips made by vice grip are an essential, roloc tools angle grinders etc. my contact details are in the video description on most of my videos 👍
Great video Trev. Glad to see your back. I'm really interested in the body hammer you were using. The one the looked like it was a double ball peen. Can you tell me what it's called and who makes it? Thank you!
A question...I've reciently been considering brazing as a solution to areas that are in poor condition (deeply rusted and compromised) I'd suspect that the cleaning of those areas would need to be done well beforehand...or is there some forgiveness in cleaning the area? Glad to see you at it.
No forgiveness. With TIG, even the tiniest amount of oxygen results in fireworks, contaminated tungsten, foaming, and migrating wormholes in the metal. It also deposits iron sputter on your hood lens and on your gas lens if you use one. In other words, widespread damage and extra labor, which includes gouging the bad spot out of your workpiece and filling it with clean metal. The TIG plasma has the amazing propensity to recycle oxygen reduced from rust to cause more rust in the surrounding metal; the more you fight it, the worse it gets. The oxy-acetylene flame is more tame and can be kept consistently reducing, preventing new oxides from forming, but it will not reduce existing iron oxides. If there is any rust left on the surface you want to braze, the brazing alloy will not penetrate it. TIG welding slightly rusted or dirty steel with ER70S-6 or ER308L can be successfuly done, but only if the rust has not penetrated the metal.
Personally I’d always remove the rusted metal and weld in a brand new fresh section. Nothing worse than restoring something only to have the bit you took a chance on bubbling up… cheers Trev 👍
Would it help on the distortion if a person was to use a jewelers torch instead of the normal oxy-ace. torch. I feel it cause less heat, but I don't know if it would be less penetration. Ronnie.
The most adverse effect in butt-joint brazing is iron contamination. It is inevitable when a sliver of brazing alloy is sandwiched between massive sources of iron, with both iron and the copper alloy continuously exposed to plasma (worse in the case of TIG plasma than oxy-acetylene flame). Adding iron to a copper-based aloy makes it brittle and prone to cold cracking. The idea of brazing / soldering is to allow the molten braze metal to dissolve in the solid iron lattice. It is similar to how organic glues work: solvents (or heat, in the case of hot-melt glue) embed long organic molecules into the lattice or bring them to a uniform surface contact with the solid surface, allowing them to bind. Keeping the iron solid is the greatest challenge in brazing. In TIG brazing, it is almost impossible in any configuration. The broblem may be negligible when brazing large parts -- filling cracks in cast iron, brazing pipe flanges and such, but it is very hard to avoid when joining thin sheet metals. Lighting up and starting the pool on a small piece of brass plate held next to the joint can be helpful; once the pool is established, it can be chased along the joint with the arc never touching the steel pats.
Do the silicon rods go bad after a while? Bought some individually from welding supply shop, they weren't in a tube, just in a bag. I try to TIG on them and they smoke like crazy, even after cleaning w/ 99% iso. So much contamination... are my rods bad? Tried all different amperages.
Something definitely sounds wrong there! the easiest way to rule out if they’re contaminated would be to get hold of another new rod and see what the difference is. I think the ones I bought were just a few pounds for a very small amount of rods from a seller on eBay, they braze very cleanly. 👍
Always running gas whatever I’m welding or brazing, without gas the tungsten electrode will melt and the weld will become oxidised and totally useless. 👍
Possibly… I haven’t made my mind up about using the pulse function on really thin metal yet. By far the most effective i have found is to up the power and move fast 👍
TIG Welding put 30% more heat/energy in the panels, and a lot more of distortion, than MIG/MAG That is the reason why MIG / MAG welding technology is still used in the body shop. Lower heat input .......😉
