Great content, Howard. I compared the Sub 2000 Gen-2 to the S&W FPC and went with the FPC instead, mostly based on the way the Sub 2000 folded (awkwardly, not accommodating the optic). The Gen-3 seems a better value that has the Gen-2 issues resolved. It seems a feasible 'truck gun' for my other vehicle, and looks like a heckuva lot of fun to shoot. Love your channel, your knowledge, and your demeanor, Howard. Far and away the best firearms channel.
Good video ! I know Howard isn't keen on it, but I'll take my S&W FPC any day over the 2000. I actually obtain sub 1" groups at 25 yards with a cheap Romeo 5 optic. They can be had for less than $600 and have a better trigger than the 2000 and, more importantly, the trigger group isn't polymer like the 2000 and the trigger pull is much lighter and smoother. Mine has been 100% reliable with anything I put through it including 115, ,124, and 147 grain ball and JHP ammo. It's 23 round mags are filled with Federal 147 grain HST JHPs.
Not quite the same here. I have been a big S&W fan for years, but for several months was disappointed in them and called that thing a plastic abomination. Got to see one in a local shop and "pulled the trigger." Very pleasantly surprised.
@jamesvatter5729 I am starting to become a fan . Since they changed the trigger, I really like the newer 2.0 9mm models. Great ergonomics (and especially grip texture). A 2.0 with Apex trigger would be my next choice for striker fired after my CZ P10C. I also find myself carrying my Shield Plus more than my Sig P365s and Hellcat Pro as of late.
I totally agree with you on the barrel muzzle thread protectors not having O-Rings to help secure them in place during shooting. I have had problems with both pistols and rifles. Finding the correct size heat-resistant O-Rings that will fit for some firearms can be challenging. I have found Teflon tape to sometimes work but not always. You, I, and about 500 of our closest colleagues should go picket in front of the manufactures and say "We want O-Rings." Thanks again for the review.
Great Presentation H.R. I bought the dreaded Hi point 995. Many years ago. I had a BSA red dot on it. This carbine has been a lot of fun and accurate too. . I looked at getting a Kel tech 2000 for the folding capabilities and magazines capacity. Until then I will be plinking away with the Hi Point 995 a good fun gun. Semper Fi
If the review is about the firearm shooting portion, a magnified optic is kind of important to determine what kind of accuracy/consistency one can expect. Most people won't use a magnified optic off a bench with a PCC but it would've been nice to see how the barrel performed while taking out as much human error as possible.
Excellent presentation! I have a 2nd Gen and may upgrade. Sorry for the absences lately in livestreams, retired life is becoming more active than working life was lol. They're toys, not meant for real work, but I love the creativity displayed by Keltec. Well done, sir.
Thank you, Howard, for another excellent review. I’ve never owned a KelTec weapon and never fired any generation of the Sub 2000. However, I am impressed with this 9mm firearm, for its intended purposes and at its very affordable price. To emphasize the obvious, what is this weapon’s mission? It’s not hunting, or precision shooting, or long range target competitions; instead, it is short range target practice, plinking (maybe), and especially lawful defense. And, for these it certainly is more than adequate. Lots of us have “bedside firearms,” and I’d assert that these KelTecs might be every bit as viable as top-tier autoloaders, revolvers, ARs, and shotguns (acknowledging the obvious terminal ballistic differences between, for example, .45 ACP, .38 Special, 00 Buck and M193 rounds). I’m not going to purchase a Sub 2000 now, but were I starting to acquire firearms, this might well be in the mix.
As I've mentioned in the past, I see the S2K as a "niche" firearm. It fulfills a specific role for me. To date, I really haven't found anything that fills it better.
Your two part review of the gen 3 sub 2k turned out exactly as I expected before watching the videos. You're heavily invested in your choice of this platform over it's competitors. Thanks for your efforts in producing a high volume of content.
Great video. I have not held nor shoot a Sub 2000 but I do own and love my Hi-Point 40 S&W carbine. Using a cheap red dot scope I get what I call practical accuracy out to 100 yards
Excellent video! Went to Sportsmans Guide to check out the Sub 2000 gen 3, but none were available. There were only a hand full of the gen 2's. I'll just wait lol
Good evening, HRFUNK and family. Looks like a fun carbine to shoot. On your loading the magazine problem. Do like i did. Buy you a Maglula. 👌 thumb saver tool for sure. Super easy. One model will work with 9mm, 10mm, 45acp, .380 , 40 S&W . Then i also have one for my M1A magazine and AR-15 magazines to. That one will load both .223 & 5.56
Thanks for another very informative video. I learn something every time. Just one range trip with my Sub2K Gen 3. I have not decided on the optic so I used the Romeo 5 from my 300BO. I was very impressed with the groups after zeroing at 25 yards. I was pressed for time and didn’t get to shoot at 50 yards. Next time.
Thanks Chief. That was real helpful. Just the discussion between the two different generations was worth watching. The Gen 3 did shoot very well during the range review! You were discussing the trigger of a budget carbine, "but, it works." I can't agree more. Maybe in the future you should install and review a trigger upgrade package! I don't see much difference between an OK trigger and a good trigger, but you can! Then see how you do with your head shots at a distance.
I have a 90's model Sub9 with an aluminum receiver. It has a very odd twist-on sight/light attachment mount that snaps into the upper part of the forearm. It always bugged me there was no way to close the Sub9 when I added the attachment. I am bidding on a new Gen 3 Sub 2000. I will retire the ol' Sub9 if I win. The Sub9 has resided under my bed for the last 25 years as my main home defense gun.
Good content. Thanks for the information. I've never owned a Kel Tec but I really admire their innovation. And that thread protector issue drives me nuts. My favorite handgun has a thread protector that works loose and it seems like such a stupid place to save money in manufacturing. Maybe I'm wrong and it's insanely complicated - I've never manufactured a gun after all.
Looks good to me, I've been debating about a vehicle gun... You may have just convinced me 👍👍 Have you had a opportunity to try the Beretta CX4 Storm PCC? Good video BTW.
I have both the Gen 2 & 3 and with 124 grain jhp’s (hand loads) from Everglades ammo @ 50 yards I smack a a 4” steel target & @ 100 yards I hit an 8” steel plate.. Great little plinkers..
I just bought this rifle yesterday. Haven’t shot it yet. I really liked the S&W FPC better, but I have a lot of the P Mags that came with my wife and my Daggers. Hopefully today I’ll shoot it. I hope I’m going to like it. If not I’ll be getting an S&W and a matching handgun 😳. Great video. Thanks
Hello there, HR. I don't own and Gen anything Sub 2000 and most likely won't buy one. But I was very impressed with the test that you did, and for a gun that's as goofy looking as this one is, it shoots amazingly well. Actually a lot better than some more expensive rifles (or carbines). Kel Tech has really hit this one out of the park. As you stated, the trigger is probably the worst part of the gun, and it's not horrible, just could stand some improvement. Overall, really a heck of a nice pistol caliber carbine. Cheers, Zeke
I think the best practical use for the Sub 2000 was as an economical home defense rife that was light enough for anybody to use and with lots of convenient attachment points. The Gen 3 is more expensive and does not come with sights so you are looking at least $200 more for better foldability and not much better performance if at all. Kel-Tec seems to put more of a premium on appearing cool than being useful.
You can find them at a couple online places for 370 give or take . Seen them for as cheap as 350. Supposedly the trigger is upgraded and is metal compared to Gen. 2 plastic. I think it has a better buffer system in it for recoil. Sand they upgraded the charging handle making it easier to charge they say the gen 2 was pretty hard to charge for women and kids. Just what I say in the interviews with Kel tec reps at shows. Like you said though if your don’t wanna add an optic that’s at least $100 and up depending on quality that you get and if you wanna add iron sights too.👍
Good morning HR. Looks like a fun range toy. I wonder about long term durability of the folding lock up and accuracy. Is forgetting the tack shot a sign of old age?😂 The eclipse was a dangerous potentially blinding event. So bad that some schools shut down. I think the president should have issued an executive order banning it to protect the children!
He obviously does not see the need to protect our future generation! I don't know about the long-term durability. I can say my Gen 2 has held ups quite well.
i prefer the gen2 with midwest industries optic mount as it keeps the slim low profile of the s2k. the mcarbo optic mount for gen2 and the gen 3 w/ optic (when folded) make the s2k significantly wider. the downside to the midwest industries mount on the gen2 is that it adds 2 extra steps to deploying the s2k because you have to twist the optic out of the way to open it up, then twist the optic again to get a sight picture but for me its a fair trade off to keep the slim profile while adding a RDS
My Gen 2 is more accurate. I also place in the top 3 in PCC in Steel Challenge matches with mine. I use 115 grain FMJ ammo. I have a red dot on mine. But, don't care about the folding issue. I don't need to use it for what I use the gun for. Also have aftermarket trigger parts, recoil buffer and neoprene cover on the bolt tube.
Looks like it does everything a PCC should do. Daughter and I went up around Marion for the eclipse and Columbus traffic was bad after. I decided to head east on 30 and wouldn’t ya know it, had an “unscheduled” stop at HOP for 1000 poly 115s. I’m liking that ammo.
@@hrfunk did not know we could use it for in store purchases as well. Doesn’t matter, it’s good ammo and an even better mission statement for a company. They’ll put the extra money to good use.
Thanks HR I always appreciate your unbiased reviews. For me I’ll stay with my Ruger PCC which is almost as easy to take down and transport. I’ve fired a gen. 2 Sub -2000 and it’s just not for me. Keep your great review videos coming.
Some of comments don't line up with gun smith's .....the trigger is greatly improved....PC s can make kill shots at 400 yrds...pcs are effective are they the most ..no but they are effective..theybused them kn WW2. And avg max gun fights in WW2 were only a little over 200 yrds
Question what distance are you zeroing your optic. It looked like a good zero distance Good video supposedly the trigger is upgraded and is metal compared to plastic in previous models. I thought it was spongy. The charging handle they said they improved that too making it lighter to charge for women and children they said the gen 2 was really hard to charge. I see them online for 370 give or take. Great video 👍
Thank you! As I recall, I zeroed the optic at 25 yards. The Gen 3 S2K makes another appearance in this video. You might enjoy it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gFbVMJOzOe4.htmlsi=SkZKihKxDF6RPWgD
Question and an observation. Q: If you are using a long gun are close encounters realistic for an armed citizen? I can see using my home defense rifle at ranges of 10 yards and beyond but not at shorter ranges. Isn't the purpose of the long gun to create standoff? O: My experience with inexpensive optics is that there is no difference from expensive optics out to 200 yards. The better optic might do better at twilight but for most lighting conditions I don't see the value.
I think if someone has a PCC for general shooting duties, it can certainly work for, home/self defense. I've not heard of a jurisdiction (yet) that precludes the use of long guns under otherwise justifiable circumstances.
Thanks for the great video, it was very informative. One question, what is your thought on how to perfom a tap, rack, bang drill on the sub2k or clearing a double feed? Thanks again, keep up the good work.👍
A true double-feed (i.e.failure to extract) typically can't be cleared with a TR&B. With regard to the stoppages that can be cleared with that technique, it would be performed with the S2K in the same manner as with a pistol. The only difference would be cycling the charging handle rather than the slide.
I'm a bit torn regarding the rotating forend On the one hand as you mentioned it makes it less of a pain and less of an investment to mount an optic On the other hand if I ever needed it in a moment of adrenaline charged panic, I can see that ability to over rotate the barrel as a definite negative
Personally, I like a tactical carbine chambered for an intermediate rifle cartridge in patrol applications. If that’s not an option, the PCC offers better long range effectiveness than the traditional patrol shotgun.
I'd be curious to see how different ammo would do at 100 yards?. I wonder if supersonic would drop as much or would it be different with each round type. I love my gen 2! I'm trying to talk my lefty friend into getting a gen 3.
What’s the feed ramp on the Gen3 made of? My Gen2’s feed ramp is made of plastic. Hopefully they did better and at least make them of steel now 🤷♂️ ?!
It does come from the factory with the recoil bushing (I thought I mentioned that in the video, but maybe I forgot). It’s hard for me to make a direct comparison of the recoil characteristics since my Gen 2 is chambered for the .40 S&W and my Gen 3 is a 9mm. The Gen 3 definitely has less recoil, but some of that is certainly due to the fact that it’s firing a lighter cartridge.
oh an on the o-ring thing...I just shake my head to it. That's like not including a crush washer with a bird cage (aero). I just bought a viton o-ring assortment from harbor freight since they can't be bothered to include that.
And the worst choice for a 16" barrel PCC. 115 grain JHPs over fragment and under penetrate at the velocities generated by the longer barrel. Slower 147 grain is a much better choice for these carbines.
I have a gen two 🫤 The sight tower hits the edge of the cavity on the buttstock you have to push it over to close it. I think the receiver tube is slightly warped or the hing is off a couple of thousandth. they must stamp them during manufacturing not buying another one
@hrfunk for caliber. 127 or 115 grain would have been a better choice overall, considering you're taking the gun past its effective range at 100 yards.
