A couple points -- A GM dealer technician can do a complete reflash on a e38. They can convert a truck e38 to a camaro manual-trans e38 AS LONG AS the part numbers match on both ecm's. All you need to do this is the VIN of the vehicle tune you want to use, and a knowledgeable dealer tech friend who's willing to do some stuff under the table. This complete reflash cannot be done with hptuners or other aftermarket software. Hptuners will allow you to adjust the base tune, but you can't change it out completely. Reflashing is needed if you're switching from a automatic to a manual, or are adding VVT to an engine that didn't originally have it. There are stand-alone cruise modules for gen4 engines. They cost several hundred bucks, but they work well. It's also possible to get cruise working by wiring in the body control module, but I don't recommend that for a beginner. If you do need to reflash, avoid the 2009 and earlier e38 ECM's. They had some instability issues that don't respond well to reflashes. By 2010, these issues were ironed out, and you can basically reflash all you want. It's definitely best to drop a complete gen4 package in as-is, and don't try to do manual trans swaps and other dumb stuff. If you want a manual trans, stick with gen3. But with a bit of research, a manual transmission can be paired with any gen4 engine. As a side note, I agree with you on the "NNNNBS" BS. Try to convince your viewers to use the more correct gmt400, gmt800, gmt900, gmt-k2, and gmt-t1 names instead. It will save everyone a lot of trouble in the future.
Great info bud. Also...that whole obs shit drives me crazy...i always feel the need to butthurt people using that term as if they are in the know....oohhhhhh...you mean a GMT - 400. lol
I agreed %100. I bought my 5.3 (00 Yukon) for $500 that someone else pulled, $40 for an 411 that supposedly had VATS deleted but didn't, $140 for a reworked harness off someone's crawler (soked in mud). Bought a $30 starter from B&R Autowrecking, an ls3 style cam for $80 off buttfacebook marketplace, slapped it together on the floor got it to pop off. 2 years later its in my 75 T/A and still fine tuning it with HPTuners, long story short.
I can admit. My 5.3/6l80 gen 4 swap was way more problematic than my gen3 6.0/4l80 swap..but on the plus side. As of Xmas 2021. They both are running fantastic
@@abaker821 I'm plan going for the ACE fuel injection Jackpot Pro LS W/Trans Control that cover Reluctor Wheel 24x and 58x and cover Drive By Wire and Drive By Cable.
There is a HUGE difference between making 1,500 hp on the dyno a few times and letting the trans brake go on sticky tires on a prepped track. There are also numerous situations where people have bent gen 3, gen 4, and aftermarket rods making much less than 1,500 hp. I'm not trying to discredit what you say , but engine building is not a one size fits all deal.....
I went gen 3, 6.0 simply because I had my old one ton van that had it in it, along with computer etc, etc, I have nearly all installed and complete. Just have to get a Y pipe and O2 sensors, fill all fluids and do a pre-start then make some noise. I went Speartech wiring and controls, mostly because I wanted my OEM GM cruise control stalk on the column. The nice thing is, my "van" computer was able to handle all of it. Thanks JR.
Great Info there!!! Yeah I'm still adventuring in my old A.. Big Block gen 4 454 and that thing hasn't see the day of light for a while now!! Keep those Video's coming!!!
Additional info: Some late year 04 6.0 litre trucks have gen 4 rods. The most surefire way to identify difference between gen 3 and 4. Cam position sensor on timing chain cover for gen 4 packages...also color of crank trigger sensor. gen 3 24 tooth reluctor are black...gen 4 58 tooth are tan color. You are 100 % correct that gen 4 rods aren't required, unless building a boosted application. They are however preferred if you can get them. I have a small hoard...lol
I have a gen 3 6.0 waiting transplant into my G10 van. I also have my wrecked 08 Silverado with a gen 4 waiting to go into 1965 C10 after I delete the afm/ dod crap. Sometimes you use what you got. Since I have the salvage from my totaled 08, I'm going to use it.
This is a great video and while I only disagree with 1 single point, it's not really a point that you made in your video, so I will state mine here. In regards to an Aluminum 4.8/5.3, I would go GenIV all day long, especially if I wanted big HP, as the blocks are stronger (ie. Bore support webbing etc). For an Iron Block 4.8/5.3, I would go Gen III, as it will be the cheapest. In terms of a 4.8/5.3 Iron vs Aluminum, for me it comes down to: If I am going to use stock (or cleanup over) bore and want weight savings, I go Gen IV Aluminum. If I am buying pistons anyway, and want to build a poor man's LS1/6, I choose Iron...and for the price of a cheap set of SCAT or Eagle Rods, I would replace all Gen III Rods no matter what (for peace of mind) or only run Late Gen III/Gen IV OEM Rods with new fasteners (again, for peace of mind). The rest of your video makes 100% sense and I appreciate you taking the time to make it.
Thanks for the advise on my sons Envoy 5.3 swap into his 80 Firebird, I stayed with the stock computer and it worked fine, just a little learning curve. I’ve been looking at a 6L90e behind my 502 injected motor in my camper. It has a 58x crank sensor and 4x cam sensor and I was thinking about the E38 computer and transmission controller, seems like I got a lot more homework to do. I agree about the Gen 4 6.0 or 6.2 being the only worthwhile swaps, but too expensive for my blood unless I can find one with a bad crank I can swap for a 4.8 crank and do a short stroke turbo motor to kill low end torque and it’s fun to rev them up to the moon
I just had to convert my gen3 lq4 to work in my 09 Silverado. What fun, had to change reluctor wheel to 58x and a 4x cam gear and relocate the knock sensors. Went with the 243 heads and intake from the gen 4 5.3 that was in the truck. Hopefully get to fire up end of this week!
Wired and fired up! Tuning still but it's an animal and I still haven't gotten tires to grip! Smoked all 4 thru 2nd.gear on semi wet ( sand and salted ) highway. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JoqdjAKjGao.html
I run a gen 3 lq4, I’m sure you know this but you can bolt on rectangle port heads on your gen3 6.0. I went with ported 243 heads, I mainly wanted the increased compression and didn’t feel the head swap alone was worth the work. I use a tbss intake, 90mm drive by wire throttle, with an adapter that plugs into the harness. My ideal build if i were doing it today would be a Rec port head 6.0 or 408, and I would have changed the pistons to get the compression up. I didn’t know about the issues you pointed out in the gen4 engines. I did the swap in 2010 and then gen3 engines cost as much as the gen4 today. I paid $800 for my 6.0 and I ended up rebuilding it.
LQ4 came with various heads and chevy test Gen 4 LQ9 on the LQ4 Gen 3... I own an 04 Gen 3 LQ4 out of a 04 escalade and I have ret port heads... It has 32,000 miles on it and I'm putting it into my 94 chevy silverado...
Love your videos wish I would have found them earlier I built a gen 3 6.0 bottom end with gen 4 rods and pistons sloppy stage 2 cam and bought a sm465 from Novak conversions for my 04 Jeep rubicon my plan is to run a carb and an msd ignition controller just waiting for spring and warmer weather to do the installation
I just got an 03 trailblazer ext with the aluminum lm4. Im doing a diet on the trailblazer. Cutting it up to see how quick i can go just by extreme weight reduction. Very fun project !
I'm with you brotha but I have a gen 4 and it hasn't been too expensive to delete the dod stuff thanks to ICT billet!...lifters timing kits etc...fairly cheap much cheaper than the 86 roller 307 im also building!...man that thing costs lol!
Just a heads up. My 08 4.8 did not have DOD from the factory. Not sure if that changed in the later 4.8's. I went to tune it and DOD was deselected in the ecu. I looked around and found out the 4.8 was the only engine in 08 without DOD. Awesome content JR! Congrats on the new venture! Your videos are a must watch!
Great video man another thing to add is that pcm of North Carolina makes a 4l60e to 4l80e harness that I have in my 08 silverado installed plug and play built by Ryan Jans converter and tranny and installed by him as well works great does run about 250$ for those who choose that route.
They started way back in 2001... as a 2002 model year being the LQ9. Every single LQ9 GM made has the full floating pin heavy duty rod. It was one of the highlights GM marketing noted as an upgrade the Escalade's 6 liter on release. People very easily forget. Does an 03 model year have full float rods in it? Doubt it... not to mention at 18 years old who knows if it's original anymore.
@@LSswapGarage1 Mine is allegedly a high mileage LQ4 (and the inside looks like it), but I don't have the donor truck anymore to verify it was the original engine. My HP goals don't really worry me if I'm wrong and they aren't 4th gen rods, full floating or not. Thanks for the info.
I talked to you on this thread about a year ago. I went with an ly6, it is na now and it is nasty. Although it has a camshaft specced for a turbocharged application this spring it will be. I'll cross my fingers and hope it doesn't pop.
I was swept up in the dream of putting an Ls in my 65 C10 . So, I went and purchased a LS3 with a Tremec 6 speed . It’s great . Sits on a pallet in my garage . Spent way to much . Should have just got a 5.3 and used the extra money to get a full suspension build . But no . I wish this guy was my neighbor or brother in law or friend or whatever. So yeah whatever. I’m cool , I have a LS3….
Is it for sale ? Lol I am charging through that same process in my project. It's not that bad. Well besides we already spent the money. But there is info on them and you can end up with a really strong but reliable engine. I got an actual LS3 (6.2L from a F-body) and after some frustrating time spent on "RU-vid" hunting for wiring info I finely went to google and started looking into the pinouts which are all available online and went through my stand alone harness and NEW HP tuners mpvi2, have a basic tune on it, Vats removed and just about ready to splice all the wires into the cab.. don't sweat it man. It's still a dam good engine, we just took a little harder path. Lol
There are a lot of gm cars that share the same pcm / tcm part# as gen 4 truck engines. I had a gen 4 tcm that was busted with the pull out Got the same tcm out of a malibu and had it reflashed running good still. Just in case anyone looking for gen 4 tcm / pcm.
Ever hear of ACE fuel injection they have a really nice kit for LS and with Trans control build-in I hope get one for my 5.3l Gen 4 with 4L80E which getting a BTR Truck Norris cam along with DOD and VVT delete kit that going in my 1988 C2500 2WD.
Gen 3 is definitely a simpler and cheaper way to go, for me tho I am running a single turbo gen 4 LY5 with T56 swapped into a BMW so Holley was needed with a CAN conversion box to convert all my CAN signals and control PWM fans and to retain all factory A/C control, also using LS3 DBW. It is not a cheap swap be any means but it was fun, and Holley is challenging which makes it more rewarding in my opinion.
I wouldnt skip gen iv for a gen v unless it was being kept stock, the gen v is a even bigger headache and port injection has better fuel cooling and is still by far easier to work on but gen 3 is just too simple/cheap to pass up.
Found a steal on a Gen IV 5.3 for $600 with a flat lifter and cam of course. Came with full parts to fix and AFM and DOD delete. I’ll swap a Gen III harness and computer and call her a day. Win win.
Merry Christmas to you and your family JR. Great video explaining the differences. I would add that at least for the LQ4, the early 99/2000 had the long crank flange, which is expensive to remedy unless running an older style auto trans. I think the 4L80's will run fine though -- they just don't use the spacer that they apparently put on the 2001+ LQ4's. I also read the early LQ4's ran a very wimpy stock cam, which is probably meaningless to 99% of people, but if you plan on doing a dirt cheap no-cam-swap deal, then it might not be worth it for the early blocks. I don't know exactly when, but at some point in time they redesigned the rear oiling setup of the LQ4. In my early model, there are two holes and a solid block off plate. In later blocks, they cast in a groove which helps with oiling. For those that "must have" the gen 4 rods/pistons mated to their gen 3 crank, the balance will be off by quite a bit which depending on who you ask, means expensive machine shop work. I'm sure you probably already know all of this, but adding it in case others stumble on this.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer My problem is that if you are running an AR5 adapter, you either need to buy an expensive offset flywheel, or if you grab a later engine with the shallow flange, then just a regular old LS flywheel works. I'm not sure if this affects the T56/TR6060 or not though - those trannys are too spendy for me!
@@TheDrivewayEngineer It gets troublesome for manual swaps. There's almost no one making an aftermarket flywheel to fit it, and when you can find one, it costs several hundred dollars. If I had one of those that I wanted to use with a manual transmission, I would seriously consider pulling the crank and seeing if a local machine shop could shorten it a little.
I like the Gen4 stuff, aluminum block, vvl, and 6 speed. Bought a whole truck for $3400 and use EFI Live for full control over the Variable Valve and 6L80e and DOD deleted of course. It may cost a few grand more but honestly when you are talking 80+ hours of labor into a build money really isn't the issue. In the end you have a LOT better truck and worth much more.
I need to start sending you some rec ports haha. Gen IV are in the self serve yards here and so the heads are those 50 dollar each type deals. Even my higher priced yard will sell the heads complete along with the rec port intake for around that 200 dollar mark. You can do cruise with a gen iv but it requires a bunch of garbage like Dakota digital to do it. I am the same way.... Gen 3 are the easy swap solution. I have one Gen IV swap that is my own truck and it's stupid... is what it is. Oh and for fun! If the intake valves in your rec ports are shot like my one set the usual is hop on like Rock auto and buy new valves... don't! The cheap solution is GM... I spec'd intake valves for an 09 Savanna's LY6 and what do you know... my local dealer was $8 CAD a valve and the wholesale one I can pull from ( but it costs me shipping so it's not worth it in this case) was around $6.50 CAD a valve. $64 later I have new OEM GM valves lol.
I have an 09 savanah 3500 I’m swapping into my 89 Silverado, with a cam, sounds like I’m in for some fun, I’ll do the vvt delete, hopefully I can get this going
One of the best reasons I could see is if you were going to go LSA so you don't need the adapters which should keep it lower but also just better heads but I think those rec port heads might only be on the 6.0l I don't know
gen 3 part availability is way easier to do swaps into c10,caprice, camaro, G-A bodies,s10 than the headaches involving a gen4. I know I've swapped multiple g bodies with a gen3. gen4 are a headaches when adding a supercharger because you basically have to beef up some factory internals because of DEATH ON DEMAND.. gen 4 is more prone to wtf is that loud tapping sound getting louder, OH wait it's my cam killing itself do to design flaws..
I wish somebody made affordable transmission controllers for all these newer trannys. I've heard people are using ZF 7 speed dual clutch from BMW in some swaps.
I'm about to get hell for this, I bought a ly5 gen 4 5.3, I converted it to work with a Gen 3 computer, by using a gen3 p001 ecu, a cut down wiring harness and a ebay manual 92 mm throttle body, all I had to do really is change out the reflector wheel, and drill and tap the knock sensors, I also had to extend the cam sensor, I have the money and I wanted to see if it would work, and yes it does.
recently, found stock gen3 complete truck drove it a year and a half. parked it to do major brake line replacement and body repair and found it was to far gone so i keep the engine and sold the rest.heres the strange part this 5.3 is drive by wire has dish pistons with no crosses and gen 4 rods that are bushed yet the pins are pressed into the pistons what kind of freak did i catch the truck was a 04 silverado z71 extra cab 4dr 4 wheel peel 4.10's
@@TheDrivewayEngineer it's contrary to what you said about all gen4 4.8's having all that stuff. Only 5.3 and bigger engines had those options. Aside from all that, if gen 4 engines are the better as you and the internet say they are, but you shy away from them due to electrical difficulties... Then why not just swap the reluctors for free to the 24x ??? That in fact, would change everything, absolutely everything, on ones engine options.
Hypereutectic pistons are much stronger than people give them credit for. Ive personally seen them hold up to an entire season of beating hard on them and during seasonal refresh maintenance look good. Were they not so inexpensive id use them for another season.
I use gen 3 and gen 4 ls engines but I stick with 24x gen 3 computers and stand alone harness, the gen4 stuff with dbw and computers are too sensitive with sensors and whatnot.
Defiantly agree but don't listen to me, just keep buying those Gen IV engines and I'll keep the Gen III's. I've been swapping for 7 years now, everything from bone stock to 500 hp 5.3's punched out to 5.7's. You're not going to hurt any Gen III's, even the alloy engines if you're running NA which I believe most of us are. Even the reworked harnesses and flashed PCM's run just fine. I buy all the Gen III stuff I can find, mostly 5.3/4.8 pieces, only found one 6L but I'm never going near a 4L60 again unless the engine is bone stock. Once you get to the point you think you need the Gen IV bottom end your costs start to escalate and a turbo might be cheap but the trans to handle it isn't.
i bought a 2008 gmc 2500 van for 500 bucks, i drove it home and cut the cats off an made my money back. my dad pulled the motor why i was out of town and he didn’t pull the pedal
Just bought a ly5 07-09 5.3 for $350. Came as a complete motor and wiring harness. Where I live in Canada LS motors are way overpriced (1500-2500) even in an old shit box. Should be interesting putting this in my 97 obs.
The Gen 4 is a great engine if you can get one for a decent price. I scored a gen 4 with a good 6l80, harness, PCM, and everything I need to make it run with just over 100k on it for $1,050. And the engine has all the accessories as well as the starter still on it. Its a 5.3 but with nothing more than a cam, headers, a good exhaust system, and a good tune, it will make about 400hp and 400tq at the crank. So it should be good for around 300hp at the wheels. Is it more expensive than a gen 3? Yes. But if your like me and you want that 6 speed trans over the 4 speed then its 100% worth that extra cost to go to a gen 4 engine. And Holly just released support for the 6L80 / 6L90 trans. So if you don't want to deal with the stock PCM you no longer have to. One of the big things to me though is finding a gen 3 that does not have 250k on it is getting harder and harder as they are older engines. So finding a gen 3 thats a good runner is not as easy as it used to be. Most will need work, many need a full rebuild. But Gen4s will around 100k miles are much easier to find these days. So to me the gen 4 with its lower miles, and better 6 speed trans is the way to go over the gen 3.
Literally never ever ever one time going to touch a Gen IV engine. And have never checked the mileage of any engine I've used, or cared, or replaced a single bearing.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer My buddy put a Gen # in his CJ7 2 years ago and it ended up with Rod knock on start up. He had to pull it out and rebuild it. My other buddy used a gen4 engine with a gen 3 harness and computer because that's what he already had in the vehicle. Just delete the DOD and they are solid engines.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer You never checked the mileage🤣🤣 that dumb every gen 3 I have run across was so worn out and with 300,000 miles and literally covered with oil are the ones you want to stay away from I'm sure you heard the current over maintenance granite they may be cheaper but in the long run you're gonna end up spending more money getting the machine work done unless you're the kind of guy that just wants to go blow it up on the weekend racing scene.
Dont know why I'm asking, glutton for punishment probably lol. What do you think of the gen 3 ecu and harness with the gen 4 motor and a lingenfelter converter box? I was given a gen 4 short block and have a blown gen 3 and was thinking of using gen 4 block, 862 heads, gen 3 intake and ecu. Proceed to light me up 🤣
I love the knowledge thank you I am new to the ls world been a diesel guy for a long time. but I am building a 06 lq4 stroking it to a 408 turbo Holley terminator x at this point. 4l80 transmission and putting it in a 78 Jeep J10 that was my grandpas so there is the story. I found a crank that I like and it doesn't come with a 24x reluctor wheel can I just change the reluctor wheel out I know they make a timing tool, and continue or should I just switch everything over to the 58 since I am purchasing a aftermarket ecu, harness etc. this isn't a budget build per say just looking for the simplest way to take a 58x crank and put it in my block. or am I out of my mind? I just subscribed trying to learn everything I can. I am building it on my channel and am looking for all the help I can get. thanks for the info
@@TheDrivewayEngineer The crank I want isn't offered in a 24x it only apears to come in a 58x so I was asking if I could then just put a billet one piece 24x reluctor on that crank and use it. I may be able to special order it without the 58x. just trying to speed the process up and not wait months on another company to do a 1h job. thank you sir.
I know this is about gen3 and gen4's but there's a 99 camaro Z28 with a complete ls1 engine and trans sitting at at a Kenny U-Pull yard in Ontario not to far from you if you know anyone looking. Doesn't deserve to be crushed and recycled.
Thanks for the uploads man 👍🏻. My only purchase have ever been a gen 3 that I sadly have not finished. Man, I just left it open down to the heads, hope the wd40 helps keep things okay
For me. Gen 4. If for only the heads. I do have a question. People say ls engines have a sensitive piston to valve issue. I use 6 liters. The pistons have a slot for valve interference, but the thing I see is the corner of the valves are way down from the deck surface. The small Chevy engine have to have the valves taken out to surface the head or you might cut the edge off your valve. I am just doing an ls and working on the differences from the old school engines. Next one will be a nasty 6.0 for my son na. I don't get people saying piston to valve clearance is a big issue on these engines. What do you say on the issue
Question. Would you buy a 5.3 for $175 with rod knocking? If so what all parts would I have to buy to rebuild it? Or would you stay away from it? I found 2. One for $200 and one for $175.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer ok thank you😂😂😂 I kind of figured you would say that. I just figured the $175 was cheap enough for me to rebuild myself. But you’re right I can buy a running used one here for $500.
