two days ago i got a message from pontiac that says" "Dear Josh, It's true. GM recently announced the difficult decision to phase out Pontiac by the end of 2010. It's been an incredible ride, from classic cars like the GTO and Trans Am to today's line-up of pulse-quickening rides like the G8 and new Solstice Coupe."
Ya know, in the times we're in right now, I hope we all learn a REAL lesson here. Whether you like them or not, GM is a poster child for what's been going on in our country for far too long. We don't need so much "stuff" we can live without. When our grand parents were coming up, they didn't have much, but what they had, they were proud of. It made our country STRONG! Somehow, we've lost sight of that over time. So maybe all this is how we right the ship. I hope that's what happens anyway.
2) Never ever is any supercharged engine going to be more reliable than a naturally aspirated power. Besides, where did hear that M5's engine was unreliable? I thought BMW has won dozens of awards for their engines, some even for quality/reliability. 4)I'm with you on this one.
Not sure if you watched the G419's episode about bailouts but they were discussing this and pointed out that it would be more effective to give money to people - employees, rather than to the mismanaged company. GM is going to use this bailouts to get rid of thousands of people anyway.
1) BMW M5 - 383 Lb-Ft Torque CTS-V - 551Lb-Ft Torque Caddie has won many track comparisons because of its brutal straight line speed, but real driving enthusiasts appreciate the excellent ballance of the M5 and the way it handles at the limit where CTS-V feels too soft and nervous.
@Antifaith29 Just the Australian Commodore that we brought here to the states and badged it as the G8. This is the second time we did this, the first was with the Holden Manaro that we called the GTO. Holden i believe has been working with GM for some time though because the drivetrain is all GM.
the base model is $22K everyone was complaining they needed to make an affordable musclecar, they make it affordable and now people complain it is cheap inside. You cant have both.
During the discussion about the Camaro, I was thinking the same thing as Leo was when he brought up the Genesis coupe. I want to know which one do you prefer, the V6 Camaro or V6 Genesis coupe and why?
Interesting concept breaking down the GM lineup into good and bad. Gosh...its sad for me to say that there are only about three models that I would consider saving...pretty bad.
I agree, people have forgotten about diesels or refuse to use them in favor of hybrids. GM needs to have one available in their car line ups with a turbo and a larger one for their trucks and SUVs. This could be taken car of in a matter of days if they would tap into their European/Aus models that they don't use in the States without worrying about restyling and badging. Just remove the old badges and bring them into the United States
my third chevy my current car !! a 2008 chevy trailblazer will be really my most memorable cause it will be the first car my daughter rode in and the last chevy i will probabbly ever buy !! cause i dont know if there still be there but i wanted to say even though through the thick and thin i will always choose chevy over any other car or brand and even people who drive the camrys,and accords and maximas and all that crap i will always want chevy !! its one of the last pieces of america left!!!
i agree with u on that. But i believe that they should take the styling from the Saturn Sky and move it to the Solstice to have a great RWD Miata killer. They should basically, in my opinion, go back to the roots of GM....Performance....Keep the G8 GT, Solstice, make a new lighter GTO (under a different name), and toss the rest of pontiac, saturn, and buick. The new Lacross is nice, but bring that to the malibu or impala, and keep the Cruze/Cobalt SS. Everything else should go, besides trucks.
I did watch that episode. I am pretty sure they were only kidding.The numbers really aren't as easy to calculate as they made it out to be. The thing is, GM presented itself in congress as if they had a clear plan to fix everything. Jobs would be saved, the economy would go up, there would be more fuel efficient cars to save the environment. Who wouldn't want to hear that? These are members of congress, they didn't know any better.
By attractive I thought you meant looks. But yes you'd have to drop some sort of turbocharger (i'm not familiar with the options for that) or just do a complete engine swap for the celica to be workable. But if you're talking about attractive as in performance, there's always the Supra.
1) This is the same thing that happened with Bell telephone back in the 70-80's. Just break it up into smaller companies and let them renegotiate their union contracts. 2) Higher tariffs on foriegn cars wouldn't hurt either. 3) Ford hasn't taken any government money yet, as long as they don't, I'll buy a ford.
I can agree with both of you on the camaro, I think gm needs to make a cheaper rwd car to make it competitive again, if you can make it cheaper than the genisis go for it! but introducing the camaro, with that price, and at this time, is a bad idea
i agree with these guys, except GM definately needs to keep Pontiac, or at least two of the models. the solstice and the chevy cobalt ss are two different cars that both perform very well for a very cheap price, and they need to keep a cheap, rwd car. Also, the new G8 has so much potential, even though it has not caught on yet. They should consider making pontiac a performance based brand, and start off with the g8 and solstice
@ZR1Terror Forgive my ignorance, i'm not too up to scratch with American cars. Was the G8 a model that ran for a long time or was it just the Australian Commodore version that came out?
Two more things: 1. CTS-V over the current M5? Good! But don't dig the M5 until you drive the new model. Naturally aspirated power FTW!!! 2. I can't wait for AUDI R8 SUMMER ICE RACING!
killing the new diesel engines was one of the many bad moves GM took to get where it is today. The huge hybrids are not selling, and when they do customers are paying a premium and GM is still losing$. Diesels are real, and do not have the perceived stigma of fragility like a hybrid. That is important in trucks and SUVs.
Only car I would consider (if I had the money of course) would be the CTS-V! Absolute brute of a car and down the straights you can make M3 and RS4 drivers just look silly :D
Good video. There should be Chevy and Caddy together. On the otherside, there should be Buick and GMC. Axe all Pontiac and Chevy trucks. I like the new Challenger and Mustang loads better then the Camaro.
Matt, I agree with your choices 100%. I just saw the new Camaro at a dealer (LA, CA) and I think GM waited way too long to come up with the new model and lost a lot sales to Ford. But some people are die hard Chevy fans and will never buy a Ford or Dodge. Let GM keep Chevy & Cadillac brands like Toyota & Lexus. If GM focuses on quality & design, in less than 10 yrs., they'll be #1 again. 10 yrs. might sound a lot but economies move slow. Plus GM is still selling a lot of cars in China.
I know this is way old now,but I had to touch on this... Farah WTF are you talking about, the previous gen SRX was a gem and won several awards. Everyone who has tested this current version has found it lacking in every department...
If i had a hybrid gas GMC truck, i would NEVER want huge signs saying hybrid... in my mind, that's a joke in the first place. Like they said, if you want fuel efficiency, get a diesel. A truck is for work, and no one is going to get one to save the planet or be fuel efficient.
G8 GT = Good GM ( the next GM Cop platform ) Vibe = Good GM ( to replace the Aveo ) And yes to developing two small turbo diesels, a 2.0 & 3.5 . Come on GM . Get your shit together !
you are missing my point. the CTS-V has more power but it's a 4 door and costs more than $50k. When compared to the mustang and the challenger, the camaro dominates in my opinion.
@WYTEMINORITY i wouldn't kill buick because they sell really well in China,also saturns were very dependable cars,good on gas and very reliable,fars as pontiac,they were the weakest link,all they pretty much had were sports cars and alot of people are looking for more fuel effiency than anything but i do agree with you on the R8
well people let me tell u sumthing bout me and my life as a chevy buyer i bought my first chevy in 96 it was a shit box 1986 chevy caprice classic its still my favorite car i was 16 with my first cari jacked up the car rolled on sum deep dish thirtys i got into fights and got in trouble that was p,n,c, i loved that car !!! my second car was a brand new 99 z 28 chevy camro i was 19 with a new z 28 needless to say the best times of my young adult life wow what i went through in my chevy contin>
Leo please there is need for calling a sedan a escalade, be orginal think of something else that sounds big but is a sedan. Also GM please do not cut Escalade, Merc has the GX-500, Lexus has the LX 570 and GM should have a escalade plus they sell like crazy, just make it get better fuel milage.
@bobrec3GTI Nope mabe back in the day, but in recent years the impala (GM "W" platform) has had a larger wheel base and width being a full size car compared to the mid-sized Malibu ("EPSILON" platform).
Because of their simplicity EVs will easily last millions of miles with minimal wear. EVs are also smoother, quieter, cleaner and MUCH more efficient than ICEs AND...we can get power for EVs from ANYWHERE. There are people that charge their cars with solar panels mounted on their roof, no fuel, no emissions.
list of good gm's: corvette, cts, cts-v, camaro. no joke, these would be the only cars that i think they should keep, everything else is pointless garbage with a $5 interior.
Also through corners you don't go under 8 at the ring without a great handling car. CTS-V owns the M3, better looking, faster, and V8 rumble. What more could a guy ask for?
" 2010 Chevy Camaro bad GM " my heart skipped a beat for a moment... I agree with the fact that the Malibu is a good car it always has been but it's supposed to be a muscle car that's what it was in the 60s and 70s it was like a rhino on steroids when you opened them up now it sounds like a regular car :/. Hybrid trucks and SUVs they just need to stay in small cars. Big vehicles means small gas mileage and it should have a big motor because they're work vehicles.
I hate Badge Engineering too, but since they got ridd of pontiac they should bring the G8 back as the New Sexier Impala RWD and let the malibu take the FWD family sedan spot.
Yes, maybe a Part 2 is in order as there were a few reviews left in the edit suite [eg- PUMA?]. To me, Buick IS 'bad GM' but can stay [but only in China, for now]. Enclave is a big Matt / Leo dissagree! Even for that second. Hi , Matt.
Of course that its 6.2L supercharged engine has more umpf than the "pathetic" NA 5.0L, but I hear the balance isn't still quite as good as Beemer's. Don't get me wrong, the CTS-V is amazing and possibly the best car GM has ever made, but I'm just not sure if its the ultimate pick. There's an RS6, which is even more powerful and the new M5 should arrive at dealerships soon. I'm saying this, mostly because I hate the Caddies' styling.
Thanks to BADGE engineering, Cadillacs are no longer the pieces of useless junk they used to be and you actually have some solid models like CTS, thanks to SAAB actually, which GM wants to go down right now.
Like it or not ant gona be killed its just gona be sold to the us military,which makes sense...Why isnt Garage 419 a tv show? i need to know it's Tv worthy!
@bobrec3GTI Lithium batteries are 80% recyclable, the rest is harmless. Battery technology is also advancing very quickly and we are likely to see EVs with ranges the either match or exceed that of ICE vehicles within the next 10 years, along with batteries that are more environmentally friendly.
what are you comparing the hennessy camaro with the base challenger??? cause theres no way the camaro could beat a challenger with over 100 more hp and torque
"Saturn kill it, Pontiac kill it, hummer please!" LOL now i know someone feels the same way. but i would really like it if Pontiac came back a few years later and had a little more.. well.. tougher quality cars? if u will.
True that, but the M3 is still a better handling car, the Caddy tends to kick out a bit too much and is a right handful! The dude who took it round The Ring was a pretty decent driver! But yeah, that Engine is a freakin stonker! Actually had movement in my pants when I heard it... From the front and the rear HAHA
Why not just drop the bad GM cars even without the bankrupt situation? If they're bad, why have them. GM should only make the quality cars, not any of the ones that dont sell...
Boy Leo Parente has always been a GM hater. Leo was way off on the Camaro and the 2 truck brand. The Camaro not only out sold the Mustang it's first year out but has done it 5 years in a row. Bad Leo or good Leo.....bad Leo. The GMC trucks bring in nearly 200,000 units towards GM's truck sales, 82% bought them because either they didn't like the looks of the Chevy or they are not big Chevy fans but love the truck so they buy the GMC so they don't have to admit they own a Chevy! Besides, back in 08, 09 these were one of the only vehicles that was making GM good money on with huge sales.
Do you know any thing about the ctsv? 0-60 in just under 4 seconds, it s faster sexier, stronger all around just a better car. not to mention 30,000 dollars less. you could buy this caddy and a 1 series bmw with the twin turbo or a new 370 z or what ever
ok i think what u guys are saying is right on, all but one thing. the camaro is so cool and has all the gear u want for a fun to drive sports car, i realy think u are off base on that one guys. and hell yes i would take a camaro over a genesis...
malabu is nice. camero is good and should sell nice like the mustang. the volt is nice. saturn does need to go. I agree it was the kia of it's day. caddy is nice and beating bmw m5 and look at the price. Diesel is a good Idea for the future. run with it.
As much as I liked Pontiac, the Trans Am and G8, in my opinion were the only good cars that Pontiac had. They were not going to keep Pontiac just for 2 cars.
This was the Silverado/Sierra 1500 hybrid a few years back. goggle Sierra 1500 hybrrid and you'll see that it actually gets 10-12% better fuel economy then the plain gas 5.3. i am way off on my numbers i apologize.
Exactly as that guy said, unless you're some rich kid getting a brand new car then I would say ask your parents for a Challenger or Camaro. They both start under 25k.
If GM focused their attention to only two American brands, Chevrolet and Cadillac. They would build higher quality, better performing vehicles. I feel they have too much to manage for one company so it isn't surprising to see crappy GMCs, Pontiacs, Buicks, and Saturns. They can even give Saab a break. Cut all of that out and focus all of their technology on making better cars for those two brands.
this guy is on somthing cuz the cammero is a bad ass car......future this furture that thats all you hear from him.i think it is good to bring back bad ass cars that were dicontinued in the past.
great episode. im assuming it was taped before the killing of Pontiac. i would like to say one Hummer should survive. has a brand yes Hummer should die. its awful and only getting worse. but the H3T is a fine truck i think. I would like to see it rebadged as a Chevy possibly a replacement for the Colorado.
I kno hindsight is 20/20 but these guys were wrong about almost everything, the camaro outsold the mustang and the srx outsold the Lexus crossovers as well. Malibu made gains on the outdated camry and escalade sales were up too. Plus comparing a genesis coupe to a camaro is ridiculous as well as suggesting the escalade become a sedan
GMC just has way way too many sub companies. Cut all of the sub companies and merge to all GM. Keep all the good cars in each of the sub companies and you'll be left with the 10% that are good selling cars.
