What is saying is correct. It takes few minutes to change data, and the best way is to change format e.g from JPEG to pdf. You can even create a photocopy of fake ID without any problem. That's why in job interview they don't accept photocopies but original IDs.
From the time I heard Smartmatic was in charge of our elections I knew we were heading here. For now, it's not even about Hon Raila or H.E Ruto, it's about the soul of the Nation called Kenya. These are momentous accusations that should be addressed for sobriety to settle in. Kenyans God is calling us to humble ourselves and seek Him in Truth and in Spirit unless we fall. We need to change and turn to the Lord. We have lost our values as a people and a Nation. The Nation is sick and the sooner we realize it, the better. Tribal hatred and political differences marred by injustice and impunity is killing us alive. This is not the Nation our founding fathers left us. There was no Kikuyu, Kamba, kisii, or tribe in that matter. Why are we this rotten but pretend while we are dying? Extrajudicial killings, Hatred, selfishness, theft, and deceit is the order of the day in what is a Christian Country. Let's all pray for the Nation and our leaders in particular. They need to turn to God unless we fall. All I see is judgment and pain.
I subscribe to the saying that God doesn't help those who do not help themselves. I am sure that we have been praying for our leaders for a long time. It is time to sack those who are not in line with the peoples' wishes. What we are doing is allowing rotten leaders to set the example for the society. That is why, if we are to be honest, we are becoming as rotten as our leaders.
This a very informative debate about technology, it's amazing that one can trust an Uber driver to pick the kids and drop them to school but not IEBC. I see going to the supreme court as a prudent way of helping as set a better standard for our future elections.
I come from the old school. There never used to be such level of conflict with voting results in the old manual ballot casting and counting. IEBC should maintain both the manual and the electronic systems of voting until the time they are able to say with certainty that the electronic system is fault and foul proof
Came in a little late on this one and satisfied with how George breaks down his analysis. I think there were serious issues with data integrity and most likely by design.
In my opinion George has talked about possibilities, I find him to be smart enough that he didn't give guarantees that the system was hacked. Since he had already confirmed he is for azimio he had to defend their allegations, but he did not guarantee that hacking actually happened. He seems to understand exactly what he was saying, only that he avoided saying the whole truth. He knew some allegations don't make sense but he couldn't publicly say it. Very calm and cool guy... And it was worth listening to him... He is quite smart in his arguments
The discussion is quite interesting. However there's a difference between what it experts consider as original and what law considers as evidence. In this case, the best evidence or the original for a document is not the scanned copy(regardless of it's format), the original document is the paper itself that is authenticated by the signature having been prepared by a human being. In fact, the authentication of any document can be verified by the "human beings" who can testify as actually having created the document.
Geoorge, it should be very easy to explain images conversion and transmission. You have used two approaches that resonate with a common person, my thoughts; 1. The KIMS Kits captures an image, the file is presented in the server as a pdf after conversion. (The reason for a pdf is it allows you to present multiple pages in one file which obviously is not possible in one standard image size because of pixelation and size of the resultant file) 2. On WhatsApp, text/image or any other file changes the meta-data once you hit send on WhatsApp because of the encryption model used by Meta Group. That's why pictures sent on WhatsApp change the name, size, pixelation. (BUT this doesn't illegitimize the image sent. It's not like if your spouse/colleague/lad sent you an image of herself or himself (and the encryption is applied-which is a must by WhatsApp), you will struggle to know who they are once you receive the image) I only have the following two facts; 1. You're talking of votes like it's just numbers, the votes are statement by a person who voted. How can you permutate or apply a log on figures manually counted and verbally announced from a polling station and manually tallied, and verbally announced at the Constituency tallying centre for e.g. MPs, which did not even enter a computer? Wacha Buana! 2. Queues - Each polling station this time had multiple stations with a max of 700 people hence no queues! 3. The original 34A physically brought to Bomas is the real source of truth, hence the verification process. The purpose of coming to an educative show is to make things simpler to understand but you're throwing IT words left and centre, you're not helping the laymen in the show or maybe that was or was not the plan.
Tell them how hard is it editing a jpeg form and loss of security features that may accrue? I have checked the IEBC portal and I can hardly see a pdf form.
@@gandiwehu5818 Re-read point no. 2. To help you understand, the only source of the original meta data is device that took the image. If you upload/share the file acquire and new meta data set (which might include bit's of the first meta data set)
it's true what Njoroge is saying, even chebukati himself said it, the Tally at bomas was what was in the portal. in fact he said if the agents needed the original forms, they would be provided with them. chebukati later said that no changes would be made if in case form 34As were not tallying. the verification in the floor of bomas was just drama. the tallying was called off prematurely
When I was last in IT, A long time ago, Adobe,which was at that time the owners of the PDF file format, came up with a software that could take in a scanned form and create a backend database tied to the form. One could then use the computerized form as an easy data edit and entry application. Once data is in one location, it is easy to dump it into another database.
Ni nani hautaki niambie? I was just trying to show how editing of firms and images is not a recent phenomenon. Some people seem to think it is impossible.
Those forms 34A were conveniently posted without timestamps and there was noway one could know how many times a form had been uploaded or downloaded. The server was open but lacks audit trails.
After 1 hour of this interview everyone is still as confused as when it began-clearly our electoral tallying system is a Riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
The commission did not use the portal forms to tally. If I remember correctly, Chembukati said they could not release any official results until the forms started coming in for verification. The portal was only meant to prove transparency by resemblance of the portal form and the original form and the form photographed by the agents.
It experts mjinga i wonder how such people get such jobs😹 imagine a whole IT guy arguing on how you can change a JPEG which is more of a raster file and make edits 😹 ata uki convert picha iwe pdf you can never edit the file!
You will wait for a lawyer who does not shout until when you will go to university to study law and come back silent. How can you keep a dog in your home that does not bark and still you have confidence in it? 😁
Who else got this thinking of giving the IEBC chair position to an IT expert and Fintech expert to the position of CEO? Coz our whole election is and around technology
@@HibiscusfamilyKE many of the fintech guys are serious financial experts. I was proposing them so that they could bring on board financial prudence and IT at the same time
@@ahmedmohamed-gt3sw people just refuse to do the right thing. If the person at the top is determined to do the wrong thing, not even the right qualifications will prevent them. In fact, being an IT expert will make bungling even easier for them.
We all saw forms being introduced in a sneaky manner by an IEBC officer on the verification tables at Bomas after being given the forms by a UDA woman Rep from the Rift valley most probably these were the cooked forms that they had manipulated and uploaded into the portal and they wanted them to replace the original genuine physical forms that the Returning officers had brought to Bomas.
Seriously,oh how I wish.... there's nothing like another IT guy... anyone who's been in IT knows this is just basic IT process.anything beyond what has been explained is just being seen silly.
Eric Latiff is a great guy; one of Kenya’s best journalists. With respect to this discussion, Eric Latiff is clearly like a deer on a headlight. He simply does not understand data, even worse data science. CT comes across as open minded in this discussions; not Eric. Eric comes through as having taken sides.
One does not need to bring anything. he only needs to prove that the forms used by IEBC were not the once captured at the polling center. given that results can be declared with or without your agents.
@@charlesmaase331 But how do you prove that beyond reasonable doubt if you cannot show that you have a legit original Form 34A and a fake one on the portal? It will be very difficult to prove that.
When you consider most form 34As had more than one page, it is then conceivable that it is the kiems kit that created a single document in PDF format from multiple images and then forwarded that to the server.
But even secondary portal would not have worked cos the forms were tempered with. I think pdf should have been best if the portal is not tempered with.
The man is confused as to why JPEG would be changed to PDF. A cyber forensic expert! Besides, what matters most is not the file format in this particular case but rather the content of the documents. I mean in that case how do we know the JPEGs sent are trustworthy to begin with? The man is chasing winds with this line of argument.
@@dubol07 The originality of the document is what he is talking about as all the original documents have a source but once the source is unknown that calls for questions no matter which format
@@dubol07 Exactly UDA's Reasoning, Means don't have to Justify the End. Rigging Happened and that's Subversion of our Sovereignty as Kenyan Citizens. What, therefore, is the Point of Elections and Voting?
@@dubol07 The form 34 A's were scanned into the kiems kit and transmitted into an unknown server in Jpeg form after which the alleged hackers working in cohoot with iebc criminals like chebukati edited the forms n uploaded the same files but now in Pdf file form to the iebc public portals.That explains why a significant majority of the forms at the portal were inconsistent with the original form 34A's and B's from the polling stations and constituency tallying centres.Thats why Azimio in their petition is demanding for a forensic audit of the files uploaded in the portal and the ones in the servers which come from the kims kiets.
The problem with a contested situation is that everyone believes what appeals to their ears. George is knowledgeable about IT but he is also biased based on the side that butters his bread. Converting a JPEG (picture) to a Portable Document Format (PDF) is meant to reduce the size of the image as well as become device-independent at reading. This makes it much easier to download. Instead of spending a lot of time on irrelevant things like how the file changed because the metadata is altered, he should be pointing to the fact that the contents of each form must tally with the contents of the original. The portal is supposed to be an agent of transparency so that anyone can have a glimpse of what is happening at the polling stations and do their own tally. IEBC was clear that they cannot use the uploaded 34As since the law requires them to use the original. Once the originals come and they are different from the uploaded 34As, they are required to record those errors for the supreme court to give directions. Who cares where the forms are uploaded or converted as long as they tally with what the IEBC ROs and agents carry? The problem with Azimio is that they belabor non-issues to seem intelligent.
The primary use of JPEGs is for images, I think everyone agrees on that, whereas PDFs can handle all sorts of text and image-based documents. Because JPEGs compress image data, its file sizes tend to be relatively small. This means that it’s a convenient way to share digital images over the web and email. But JPEGs use lossy compression, which means that each time you save your file, you lose a little bit of image data, which can affect quality. This might explain why it was converted to a PDF, and that conversion can also mean modification of its data. PDFs are usually larger than JPEGs because they can display rich media that is, video, audio, animation, and other interactive experiences as opposed to JPEGs, which usually contain a single image. Another reason why JPEGs will be a smaller size than PDFs is because its lossy format offers a higher compression rate than PDF in the trade-off for quality. The guy’s argument from a forensic standpoint is on point.
Hata wewe your bias is showing..PDFs generally have larger sizes than JPEG so i don't think the conversion is meant to reduce the size - maybe it was for convenience reasons. Even the device-independent argument does hold water. You can literary open a jpeg in any device without having to download any software but can't do the same with pdfs without having adobe or some similar software. I think the key argument here is that of the metadata changing during the conversion. I think if Azimio can prove that some funny business happened during the conversion then their case may hold water.
The question is , is there a discrepancy between the data in the PDF and JPEG forms? Conversion can be done on the KIMS kit of the server. What server technology was being used to upload data into the IEBC forms server. Many storage platforms perform their own conversion. Was this log data available and inspected? In my view George is not as expect as he portrays himself to be. There is a lot of missing information that he should have provided to validate the claims.
Sir, all parties have form 34A copies at the original polling station. The so called purpoted charges can easily be identified by all the parties that received copies from original at the polling station. All the originals against were verified before count
This is quite speculative. The PDF documents contained the original images. Nothing was editable or selectable on the PDF because it was still an image.
A wise man once said "if you can't convince them confuse them" your guest can't explain his points coherently if he can't explain to you surely how will azimio explain to the court for the judges to rule in there favour
Unless you are not understanding English anyway mwizi ni mwizi you will never agree.The truth is the forms were in PDF form meaning someone altered them
@@faithfultoyeshua4576 one stupid IT guy, alfu hawa watu wa Media nao ni wapuzi they should have had an IT guy to ask this mf question coz they seem not to understand anything
Just they presenters to open a word document that was sent to them by someone and check on the properties of the document, they will see what metadata is. The word doc shows who and when the doc was created.
@George your argument on file formats is very simplistic. You know that there are many software tools that can convert from jpeg to pdf. PDF files are are smaller in size and compressed. If the content was altered then there would be massive differences with physical form 34As during verification. Demonstrate the experiments done to show the results of data altering otherwise your arguments are very simplistic. On voter identification are you suggesting that the data obtained from USSD queries to 70000 is polling from a different IEBC database? Your arguments are not adding up at ALL!!!!
Valid questions here. If a JPEG form 34A originated from polling station it should have been received at IEBC portal in JPEG form. Not PDF format. Why is it hard for dunderheads here to understand? Th
But nobody has proven that Kims kits were transmitting jpeg. We know nowadays you can scan a document to pdf using a camera. How do we know Kim's kits were sending pdf or jpeg
Our election is full of dramas..From numbers, technology and now lawyers will have their day. All professionals. Doctors and chefs should also look for their opportunities in the electoral process
Suppose I agree with what he says ,,, the question remains ,, yes the forms in the public portal were altered ,,, then who altered the 46,000 physical forms that were delivered to the national tallying centre to resemble the ones altered at the portal
Do you realize there were complains of people trying to switch papers at Bomas or were you abroad? Lets wait and know what transpired, if am wrong then Ruto should be just sworn in.
you didn't get the IT guy right. He said, some of physical forms had glaring disparities to the uploaded once. More so, verification was not done against the forms on the portal and the physical forms were never used to declare the outcome of the election.
It's interesting, Latiff shares your sentiments (at 39minutes & 48 minutes). In my opinion, the only way that could have led to any polling malpractice or compromise could have only happened if there was a malice arrangement that was in agreement by all agents and iebc officials in which case the results would only make algorithmic bias sense against the electorate.
From dev-ops perspective that server could have clogged immediately after receiving 10 files or less. Images have 1000's of pixels more than pdf. That's the justification. I was hoping George would know that
True. You're Right, However the law does not demand these forms to be uploaded to the portal. It however demands authenticity of these forms to be retained as they were captured at the polling center.
Your argument is based one server computer but with many server computers many services are shared thus avoiding the scenario you mentioned.Same technology used by Google and amazon.
Coming from IT perspective,I feel like George is not really at good knowledge to explain what happened.He is just speaking to please his bosses in azimio
This guy is a liar. A practical example from my phone using Camscanner can take photo of any document and convert it to any format availabe including Pdf before sending......I wonder an IT guy not knowing this
What this guy is not telling you is that the portal contained provisional results. Only form 34a that was presented at bomas and verified was used to tally and determine the results. Not the questioned authentic forms in the portal. Even though, the data was no different.
This guys have the facts of what he is talking about, but on the same time it's like they tried to hack themselves, to manipulate the evidence,. He gave out his point based on two theories that' is technology failed and hacking. Which in court they will see as a contradiction. Even logically the story is based on two sides of the facts.
In India there are over half a billion voters in their elections & the tallying & announcement of the president is done in a day or so .how do they accomplish this ?what technology are they using?
I hope John Githongo was able to verify that person's allegations. It is very easy for the other side to send you running after false info yo misdirecte you. This person, with protection, should be forced to testify.
I enjoyed this discussion. Immediately I heard "algorithm", I thought the best way to describe it was as a set of instructions, only to hear you describe it as such.
an algorithm is not a set of instructions, its a set of procedures undertaken to acheive a certain output, algorithms are used in tech to write instructions
Stick to original forms 34As presented by the ROs at Bomas. These had to agree with those from multiple parties including party agents and the portal. They had to be the same. How was it possible to change all the other 34As to read the same? 🙃🙃
I find it very hard for professionals to lie in media houses and they’re let to walk out scot free. Why can’t journalists confirm if the forms at the portal are in pdf form or jpeg? If there is any form that is in pdf and was sent as jpeg, what does the results say on the actual physical form? I have browsed the IEBC portal and can’t find his lies.
@@bakarisagna554 have you confirmed that forms in the portal are pdf? Or you don't know how to differentiate between jpeg and pdf? I have confirmed on the IEBC portal that all the forms are jpeg, or picture format
The problem with Kenyans is when they hear technology they think that's it. Even in the most advanced countries in the world, they leverage both technology and manual register in order to have a backup. Actually the constitution of Kenya requires that we have both tech and manual. I don't know why UDA and even IEBC were pushing for only electronic, wait we know, so they can rig. And by the way our government infrastructure is so weak that some guy from a rubbish third world country called Venezuela can cause this much mayhem. They chose Smartmatic knowing all the problems they've had in other elections elsewhere. Yet you find Kenyans just happy enough with all the problems even before the elections. This past elections should have proper recount or rerun even at the local level. We should have postponed it but since it already happened I think even if it cost money, our future problems will be much bigger compared to how much we spend in elections. We lose 700 billion shillings a year on corruption alone, so what is another 40 or even much less to do a rerun in a year or 2. We will be losing nothing. Or we can just allow all the cartels to get into government and remain a third world country for another 50 years. We should have fresh elections in 2 years after rehiring of IEBC officials top to bottom and have fresh elections from MCA to President. 2 years because we want well trained competent officials. Do proper background checks on these people.
The method of presentation doesn’t mean the file was changed it can also be verified with the original. Man in the middle is day time dreaming you would need to configure all the devices to redirect the files and these files from the rogue server would be rejected by the iebc server because the original encrypted data would have changed.
Technically it does mean the file was changed, whether as intended or otherwise. It does not mean the original contents of the data was changed but it also does not mean that the original contents were not changed.
If the file can be verified with the original, then the original needs to be made available for transparency. I hope that by original you are referring to the computer file rather than the physical form as I am assuming in my response.
One can't add into a whole number. Anything above a whole number overrides it's totality. Hope you can grasp that if not ready to take you through a mathematics class
Kenyans must ask this question; WHY DOES KENYA USE THIS TECHNOLOGY WHILE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, especially where I have lived for over 30 years, voters are welcomed to the voting room, they each show their ID CARD,then shown a cubicle where the voter humbly decides who/which to vote for & puts in correct containers. A EUROPEAN COUNTRY is not using these kits, AND YET Kenyan IBEC is using? IT BEATS LOGIC, and confirms to the WESTERNER DEVELOPERS, that we AFRICANS ARE still savages that cannot think logically. VERY SAD INDEED. 😥
ingekuwa us or uk, you would agree that there no issues but when it is in your country, it is not tamper proof. come on gentleman everything which is not befiting the looser in kenya is illegal.
Which USA are you talking about? They took almost a month verifying a presidential vote only , where head of election bodies in certain states ended up in courts and loosing their jobs.
But the tallying was done using the physical form 34A once it got to Bomas. Do the photos of form 34A taken by Azimio agents match with the ones at the portal? This people are just throwing everything to the wall in hope something sticks. Total BS!
