Patreon: / blokeontherange Alternative clickbait title - You'll Never Believe How Fast This .308 Win German Plastic Training Ammo Goes! :D :D :D Facebook: / blokeontherange
The Chap Yes indeed!! Never any problems with "headspace" in my favourite chamber that's for sure. Extraction is always a breeze but ejection is getting more difficult these days. Perhaps I need a new rifle with a tighter chamber. My brass would last longer too.
Used to train with those when i was in army service here in germany. 5.56 is brass cased, needs a special bolt in the G36. 7.62 is primarily used belted in the MG3, tracer rounds are available. You can use them quite a bit further than 50m if you are only going for man sized targets, but the slightest amount of wind and they fly all over the place. Do not mistake them for harmless, up to 200m the PT Ammo is at least as deadly as the real deal. Projectiles deform and break apart upon impact.
+Geist aka the amazing Infidel Yes, like bone, metal implants, and muscle. But you can see liquids and gases, too. The reason a bone or bullet will show up so well despite an x-ray picking up _everything_ is the _density_ of the material, not stiffness or hardness or how solid it is. Plastic, while much stiffer and harder than muscle, body fat, and the like, is nearly invisible since its density is so similar to the tissues around it. Lead, a soft and malleable metal, is more apparent even than stronger and harder steel simply because it is more dense.
Thelothuo Here is a info resource. What you see in X-ray is not a picture but the result of blocking the energy applied. Of course as humans we tend to use terms we’re familiar with.
+Damian Grouse At its core, it really is a picture. The flashbulb just happens to be on the other side of the objective to make it a picture of a silhouette.
The Norwegian army uses this for our hk416s. It requires a replacement simple blowback bolt, but works quite well. I once fired eight full mags of it during a suppressive fire exercise, without significant problems.
And the extractor rim on the 5,56 is exactly as on the -live- -brass- proper ammo? Or is the rim smaller and the replacement blowback bolt has a tighter extractor?
Having also served in the Norwegian army I feel the need to specify something. These rounds are not used on a flat range and shooting for accuracy. We use them in the field when we do movement drills. Less chance of ricochet and not as deadly if someone has a stupid moment. Also used in 12.7 machineguns on regular ranges.
Veb R quite correct. Blue plastic rounds are used In field exercise or Close Quarter drills. For regular basic training and other low round count exercises regular ammunition is used. Since requisitioning a set of light bolt assemblies is more of a hassle than limiting your round count, BP only shows up for extensive fire and maneuver or HMG practice. From my quick google research before the original post, it appears that the plastic training rounds where indeed a Norwegian invention ( www.nammo.com/what-we-do/technology/plastic-training-ammunition/ )
My experience from using it in the army is that it suck! Not one magazine without at least 5 not firing at all. All in my battery had the same experience
I've found that my StG-58 and Ishapore 2A1 extract it very reliably, they just don't eject for crap. Pull the handle, tip rifle over to dump out case, chamber next round.
I have shot tons of this through a G3 with the corresponding bolt at the ILRRP School . an awesome training tool for setting up small danger area CQB ranges.
I got some from Sportsmen Guide about 3 years ago and shot them in my FN FAL and they were ok, did extract worth a dare. Went thru 3/4 ply wood at 30 yards and dinted the sheet metal that was behind it. Plastic bullet weighted 11grains.
I bought a bunch of this stuff several years ago. I experienced a lot f misfires. I experimented with drilling the tip and inserting a single #4 buck pellet, which increased the projectile weight from 11 grains to 30 grains. The velocity drops to around 3000 fps and accuracy at 25 yds is exceptional. Inserting a 55 grain .224 bullet was inconsistent.
We used this in the German Army with the G3. There is a special light bolt, that you have to put in the rifle in order to cycle this low pressure ammo. It is used for close combat group training for safety reasons. Enough bang to make the automated targets register the hit, not enough range and energy to be a safety issue outside the shooting range.
At West Point Museum there is an exhibit where they display types of ammunition. One of which is a German Bakelite round from WWII. It is red and it looks plastic, but essentially looks like the round used here and was used for the same purposes as a means to train the troops rather than for combat.
I use this ammo (fairly easy to find in America) and it is fun to shoot, but is not very accurate. I shoot it with a Hk91 clone with the light weight bolt that is specially designed for these rounds. Even though they are plastic they are no joke. I was shooting some at the range and I wanted to see what would happen if I shot a 4"x4" block of wood. I fired and looked at the wood and I though I missed because I didn't see a mark, but I found the round did borrow into the wood about an inch. Like the Bloke says they decelerate quickly because of their weight. Another time I was using them was at a friends farm. We were blasting all sorts of rounds down a dirt road into a side of a hill. As we walked down the road to look at our "targets" we found one of these blue plastic bullets laying in the road. It left a foot long skid mark and was just laying there perfectly. It didn't tumble or turn. It just stopped.
4:10 Same concept as Brugger & Thomet's MP9 IN 6.5×25 CBJ -- Lowers chamber pressure with a lower sectional density. Extremely impressive projectile -- essentially a standard low pressure 9mm that propels a heavy 6.5 projectile @ 2800 fps. Think: Plastic sabot with a tungsten core. The plastic 'jacket' or sabot falls away by 25 meters, the armor piercing projectile continues on at high velocity. also dramatically lowers overheating of machine guns. You could probably drop 6mm projectile right inside a 7.62 and drive it at far higher velocities. Think, 147 gr 6.5 ballistic coefficients, benefiting from 150 gr .308 velocities _(assuming same chamber pressures)_ _Note: Same sectional density, driven by the same chamber pressure = same velocity_ Not exactly 147, because the overall length of the projectile wouldn't necessarily match or fit. Or, if you didn't want the 6.5 tungsten in the 9mm sabot... you could essentially just drop a 55gr 5.56 in the 9mm sabot get 5.56 performance out of a short barrel. It really is the obvious route to go. Blows away 5.7. Militaries are generally reluctant to change what works and what NATO has standardized on. ...but the idea of those old constant-recoil SMGs from WW2 _(like the Beretta 38A)_ slinging 55 or 77 gr 5.56 projectiles at a lower recoil of 115 gr 9mm... is pretty tempting.
Trakkar The norwegian army used both these «blue plastic» shortrange rounds, and «red plastic» blanks. I have not fired a lot of 7,62 blue, but the red was chronically unreliable, even with a lighter bolt. Both kinds are much better in for 416, where red will cycle very reliably with the blank adapter and regular bolt.
I got some from a LGS when I was in Georgia, and it's hilarious to shoot out of a L1A1. It never cycled the bolt, but it literally went "pew". It's like shooting a .22LR.
I might have to get some of that. No recoil, big flash. Looks great for teaching new shooters. You gotta love 4900 ft per second. I sure didn't expect that. Thanks for the cool video.
In paintball you can get rubber balls called reballs but what happens is the rubber burns off as it goes down the barrel. It builds up & if you cannot clean out the rubber then you throw away the barrel. I suspect these plastic rounds may have the same issue. Plastic deposits may build up in the barrel.
This stuff is used for intro to shooting and close combat live fire training (woodland and urban), where you would prefer stray bullets to not ricochet.
Speeeeedy . . . was there a wind from the right, to blow the light projectiles over a bit? Though going at that speed, and only 50m, one might think there wouldn't be much effect.
The blue ammunition did work quite good in the G3 back in the Bundeswehr but it was used very rarely in my unit (only for stuff like training fire & movement). You should get some of the green plastic blanks - horrible, horrible stuff. (would probably work fine in a bolt action rifel unless it's hot and they start melting in the chamber...) Is the blue ammunition cheap to get?
Interesting stuff. Is plastic fouling in the bore a concern with this type of ammunition? I would imagine that quite a bit of head would be generated from being in contact with the bore at such speeds. Also, When you showed the already fired casing, the bullet appeared to have sheared off the casing leaving a distinctive pattern in the neck of the case. Are the projectiles pre-engraved to match the rifling of the barrel or is the cartridge specifically designed to break in such a pattern?
Have you tried this in a modern bolt gun? I put about 120 rounds of this through my Howa 1500 with it's M16 style extractor today and had no issues, other than some rounds needed some extra muscle to close the bolt. Also any time frame on the follow-up vid?
Timeframe is "when I get around to it", like with so many other ongoing projects :) No, I haven't tried it in a modern bolt gun cos I don't have one :)
I read somewhere that they're meant for G3's with a special bolt and carrier group. Since it's roller-delayed blowback, the lack of extraction kinda makes sense.
The special bolt group is straight blowback. The poor extraction in the Minty Mauser is cos the rim is narrower so as to prevent firing full-power 7.62x51 with the special bolt group installed.
4:10 Same concept as Brugger & Thomet's MP9 IN 6.5×25 CBJ -- Lowers chamber pressure with a lower sectional density. Extremely impressive projectile -- essentially a standard low pressure 9mm that propels a heavy 6.5 projectile @ 2800 fps. Think: Plastic sabot with a tungsten core. The plastic "Jacket" or Sabot falls away by 25 meters, the armor piercing projectile continues on at high velocity. also dramatically lowers overheating of machine guns.
My experience with the same ammunition out of an ishapur Enfield was that the cases extracted like normal but the bullets disintegrated and only fragments of bullets hit the target at 25 Meters.....
Feeds and ejects perfectly in my Israeli, Chilean, and Spanish Mausers. Extraction in my Ishapore 2a1 is a bit iffy though. This stuff is great for plinking and was cheap as well.
Oooh, sweet memories. I have been trained with that ammo in basic training. That was prior to shooting live ammo for the first time. You needed a special bolt for the G3 rifle, though. Otherwise it wouldn't work.
Went down range with some of my Bundeswehr buds and tried it against B.Gel, a Stabproof Vest and a chunk of Meat just for fun. Suprisingly it has a lot of punch at 30-50m, explodes on impact into a metric ass ton of small plastic and rip through the Gel and the Meat, they dont go very far but thats a damn big wound you have if you get hit. The Vest took the shots like a champ, 1 pen out of 25 shots(all hits)
These rounds were used for training with short distances, for exemple on the "Waldkamfbahn" (forest combat range) or in an urban enviroment, there you dont need the power and reach of a standard round. The weapons have to be prepared with a special bolt and in case of the MG 3 a special "Rückstoßverstärker" (muzzle break). Greetings from Germany ;-)
I bought some for something different once and found at 50 meters it went through and through on an industrial plastic barrel - Id really only expected it to maybe penetrate one side. You could put a hurt on something so you gotta be careful....
first i read the Header i thought, well grouping of what? thee won'T be a Thing, then i saw they are different to what i used in Training, not really blanks, so i am a Little confused :D
Try running a cleaning patch down the barrel. I found small plastic fouling after three rounds. I now run a patch between rounds and my accuracy has increased about 2 or 3 MOA.
Well, it doesn't break up, as this video clearly shows. I have no idea what the velocity at 50m is, not much given that it takes a noticable time to get there. No, I did not measure it.
There's special bolt groups that'll cycle these in a G3 and so on. It's so you can't chamber and fire a full-power 7.62x51 when you've got the special bolt group in.
derweibhai a guy uses 22.250 brass with 16 grain .22 air gun pellets and just a primer and they do great these things would detonate small game 1000fps quicker that a 17 hmr and a good 250 ftlb more energy
If they cast the case & bullet in one piece, that means the powder must be inserted from the rear - before the brass head is installed. Must be an interesting manufacturing process.....
Well that was surprising! But can one get them in the UK? I'm guessing Krnks don't have them :-) Oh by the way, bought one of your Tee shirts, nice kit, cheers.
I got a100 from Simply Ammo in Oldham. Very cheap (about £25 from memory) BUT I had a very high failure rate of them not going bang! Maybe I was just unlucky but would be interested to hear if others have experienced the same problem. Was putting them through an Austrian army issued 7.62 x 51 Steyr ssg69 (so a military rifle) whose firing pin you would have thought would have had enough of a thump to set them off
Never had any failures in either feeding or misfires myself. But you do need to modify your rifle to fire them reliably. Don't expect a stock weapon to either cycle them or even fire properly. Ya definitely need to purpose build a weapon to spec if you want to fire these rounds regularly.
Lol Hahahah yea totaly agree call of duty WW2 was made to make peaple like you and me to stop complaining well give us better grahics and real gun sounds then and now we get a 1911 that holds 7 rounds it held 8 bullets talk about trying to be authentic how about I wait for brothers in arms instead atleast the story is better than the gameplay but still the slow mo legs blown off still gets my blood going LMAO cmon gearbox I want to know what happens after hells highway
One random question. When you say pen knife are you referring to a specific type of knife, or is it equivalent to what us Americans would call a pocket knife?
W Tr Well I suppose so ;-). I stick to Victorinox ever since my father took me to a shop for my 12th Birthday to chose my first “proper pen knife” and it was a Victorinox.
elektro3000, kinda makes sense - it's like how people kinda expect wax slugs to gunk up a shotgun bore, but they tend to do the opposite as you are describing - of course that's a smooth bore, not rifled though.
@@paavobergmann4920 The slug has no time in contact with any specific part of the barrel to leave a large glob of wax. It might leave a very fine film across the whole barrel but cast lead will do the same out of metal.
patricksreels Die blaue Übungsmunition wird bei der Bundeswehr i.d.R. nur dann bei Übungen verwendet, wenn in unmittelbarer Nähe zum Ziel geschossen wird und Querschläger den Schützen gefährden könnten, z.B. auf bestimmten Waldkampfbahnen oder im OHK-Bereich, bzw. wenn z.B. aufgrund des Schusswinkels oder anderen Gegebenheiten kein ausreichender Geschossfang für Gefechtsmunition vorhanden ist. Ich habe sie z.B. in meiner Dienstzeit einmal bei einer Luftabwehrübung mit dem MG3 auf ein Dummyziel an einer Seilbahn verschossen, wo aufgrund des steilen Schusswinkels die Verwendung von Gefechtsmunition zu gefährlich gewesen wäre. Übungsmunition ist nicht mit Manövermunition zu verwechseln...
