German vs Baroque recorders? Which is REALLY better | Team Recorders 

Im sorry but I REALLY love how her shirt matches her eyes

Imagine buying a German soprano recorder, watching this video two days later and agreeing that the Baroque recorder is probably a better choice as it's more future-proof despite the odds of playing other types of recorders with the limitations being close to zero. Guess who's going to get a Baroque recorder?

I started out on the German system but decided it will be better to play the Baroque recorder. Must say that moving from the German to the Baroque was very easy.

I felt cheated when I discovered baroque system. In primary schools we only play German because it's "easier". Now I play an alto baroque. Thanks for the video Sarah. Cheers!!

I started playing the recorder in primary school and I only knew about the Baroque fingerings when I watched your videos about a year ago. Then I just realised that in school, we were taught the German system. I wanted to try the Baroque fingering so I bought a new recorder. It was definitely challenging to do the F and F sharp - I kept doing the German fingering. But with practice, I feel more comfortable now playing on my Baroque recorder. I also realised the curved windway sounds way better than the straight windway. Your videos are very encouraging and a great place to learn. Thank you, Sarah! 😊

The only thing I use a German recorder for is when I'm playing two at once, where it's often useful.

Thanks, you tought me that I was trying to play "german notes" with my "baroque" recorder ! :P I'll go to bed less stupid tonight ! hahaha !

I learned the German system in school, when I was 8 years old. They probably thought the F would be easier for young kids. When I got back to playing the recorder a few years ago, I thought myself the baroque recorder after reading about the difference between the two. It took maybe a day or two to get used to the baroque F, and now the German F feels weird.

When I had recorder lessons as a kid, my parents bought me a baroque recorder by mistake (they didn’t know, there were different ones) only to find out, that the entire class played the German system and they had to buy me another one, because it sounded weird and to be honest, 6-year-old-me was too confused playing differently than everyone else. 16 years later, I bought myself a beautiful baroque tenor and I am very, very happy with that.

“Like an oboe and we wouldn’t want that” 😂😂😂😂😂

Someone I know bought my daughter a German one, and explained it away as recorders being unreliable. This was a person who also played flute, so... I corrected the situation, and even though it's easier to start for her little fingers, I practice on my tenor with her, so she sees that daddy has to stretch, too, and can still practice the same e,f,g,f,e without too much difficulty. She loves her nightly music lessons, and she's learning the names of the notes. Yes, she's on a soprano, so she's really associating fingering with the notes, which baffles her if I play alto; she hears the same note, but see me finger it differently. However, she's become used to it, is developing her ear, and we're starting to work on the staff (treble clef). Thank you so much for this video! Btw, I love the flute and the sax, and I do play the practice chanter, so I get different fingerings, but I also play guitar, and use different tunings all the time, so, variety, right? Ta!

Best random RU-vid rabbit hole ever!

When I started on the recorder, I didn’t know there were two “flavours”. I thought the difference was just having double holes. When I restarted again with a good brand recorder and with proper baroque bore, I was determined my F’s were like they ought be. In a few months my F’s sounded great, but I had developed a tennis arm. According to AAFAB in Utrecht, this is a typical problem with recorder players. So take it easy when you switch to baroque. There are a few therapists online who have a website with exercises so you can train your right arm (there are more tennis players than recorder players). Start slow, and with a small recorder. If needed, you can use a thumbrest. Two or three times a day practicing 5 minutes is better that 30 minutes in one go. Don’t worry, soon you’ll be able to use your middle finger like it should be... ;)

I have a German system Bass. It's an absolute beast of an instrument that is mostly decoration now.

I think the German system was never really designed to play much more than play in C major/ A minor. It was designed to be the first contact with an instrument.

Just discovered your channel and I want to tell you that this video in particular has saved my life! I learnt the Baroque system in school (though of course was never told that) and only discovered that there were alternative ways to play F a few years ago when I started as a primary music teacher. But I never understood the issues about the different systems etc. Only my ears kept telling me that "hey something is not quite right with the tuning of this new fingering". I kept teaching my children anyway because they seemed to understand faster with the "easier" fingering. But now I really have to examine the kinds of recorders they're buying and make sure everyone stays Baroque! Thank you so much! You're very entertaining and engaging!

Thank you for existing. I keep having various questions about the recorder and I keep ending up at this channel for the answers.

I've waited an eternity for this topic! Thank you!

Absolute fabulous channel, lovely way of clear and entertaining communication. Lost your channel but found it back true the bass. Keep it up.

Sarah - charming as usual and the video is full of lots of "useful" information ;) Love the summary "You've taken one problem and just shifted it somewhere else". Brilliant!

Thank you so much for this video! I (like so many others) learnt the recorder in school (back in the 1990s), using the german style. My step-daughter plays the french horn, but is also now learning the recorder at school. I had a go on it and couldn't work out why the scale sounded slightly off, then realised she has a baroque recorder. Until now, I never even knew there two different styles!

At school I had one year of recorder lessons when I was 9. It was a german style recorder and of course I didn't get far so it sufficed. When I was 23 I had enough money to take lessons myself and I transferred to a baroque system recorder. It was very easy to adjust. I never stopped playing after that, still do. It is a wonderfull instrument. But now I also have started to play the violin, I think it is so easy if all the notes would be in the right order, like on a string. No fork grips! IDEAL!

Thank you for posting this ☺️

I took recorder lessons for about two years in around 1st/2nd grade (don't really remember for how long exactly) and your videos make me wanna pick it up again after not having played it at all in like 11 or 12 years

What a sweetheart. Thank you. Very illuminating. It is fun to go forward with eyes open. Keep up the good work!

I recently started playing recorder and am really enjoying it. I started with a Yamaha soprano (German fingering) and loved the ease of the E F G transitions. Got a German style alto and like it too and it works for me since I generally play in F major, G minor and Bb major on it. I’d be happy to get a baroque alto at some point in the future though

thank you for the wonderful info Ma'am! I will be using Baroque Recorder Flute now.

Thank you for this informative video. I’ve always purchased baroque for my students but considered buying German this year thinking it would be easier for them but your video changed my mind! Thank you!!!

A fabulous explanation, thank you Sarah!!!!

Don't hang me out to dry, but I play a lot of folk music, mostly in the keys of D and E minor. So I converted my recorder to open fingering. Still sounds like a recorder but plays like a tin whistle, plus of course it's got a lead-in note which is useful. So I can see the sense of the German system just like I can see the sense of Albert system clarinets.

Thank you for making me realise my sixième (collège, years 11 to 14 usually) music teacher made us learn German fingering on Baroque recorders. It did take trying to remind myself of the F's heavy Belle et Sebastien main theme for realising as well. Press F to pay respects

thank you for this information - love it!!

Subbed and set the bell to alert me when your next performance occurs. I didn't know the recorder was a real instrument but now I do!

We learned to play the Flutophone in grade school and I think the fingering is similar to that of a German recorder. Joy! I found a German recorder (plastic) here in Thailand.

I started with a recorder with german system to transfer it later to my medieval bagpipe which uses the same fingering and it helped me a lot :)

Thank you Sarah for an intelligent and concise explanation of this matter. I played recorder (Baroque fingering) as a child & adolescent, and fell out of playing at that time. I'm working at picking it up again. Now, as a science teacher retiree, I find myself with little formal musical training working part-time in a parochial school and leading the kids (pre-school to 8th grade) in singing and music appreciation (no one else to do it - talk about the proverbial deer in the headlights!). The principal wants me to teach our 2nd & 3rd graders basic recorder. A generous donation of Baroque recorders by Chicago's classical WFMT radio (Baroque type) is making this possible. Dire predictions on-line about why German fingering is necessary for teaching children now do not faze me. I'm subscribing to your channel, will surely watch more. Thanks for your info!

Similarly, I've seen Native American-style flutes, six holes (no thumb hole). These are each tuned to the Pentatonic Minor scale in a particular key--fun for improv, but very inflexible.

played bassoon. never thought i’d love the recorder so much. and suddenly realizing a bassoon is just a recorder with a reed.................. 🤔. then they added keys. oddly it was you talking about the Eb that made realize this.

I’m really wanting to learn tenor recorder as a hobby & played saxophone for years. I was thinking about German style since the fingering is so similar, but you’ve convinced me to adjust.

Soy profesor de música y amo la flauta dulce. Me sirve mucho tu explicación !!!

I'm getting an Alto Baroque Recorder after trying to play the clarinet. My instructor, who's going to be teaching me it, suggested I switch to the recorder as it's easier to play. My asthma and Bells Palsy makes playing clarinet a bear, so we're gonna see how this new choice works out. Thanks for the videos! Makes for an interesting watch!

Thanks Sarah. I love the Baroque Recorder.

Sara, thank you sooo much for your videos. I swear I heard at 0:48 "... classical musicians and other salsa music use"! I'm like "Awesome"! Thank you!

I played soprano recorder in our church recorder orchestra for about 12 years. I started with Baroque recorder and after about ten years moved to German. I think it was only due to Irish whistle, which I started to play at that time. It was more natural to change these two instruments. I do not think F is easier on German or F# (of Fis as we call it) is easier on Baroque. These are just different movements which are of similar dificulty. It is even not so difficult to rebuild one to another with drill and a bit of photoplastic. (Do not try with wooden or expensive recorders. :))

Hie Sarah thanks for the informative video. I use a German Yamaha Soprano. There are some alternate fingerings one can use to get well tuned notes. Typical notes are Eb 2nd octave, F# 2nd octave, Bb to C 2nd octave, C#, D, Eb 3rd Octave

When I was 7 my mother and I learned to play the recorder together (mother and child class). I played on a baroque and she on a German recorder (hers even hadn't double holes) but that was never a problem and I always thought it was just a different system. Until recently, when I started playing again and bought a new recorder (baroque of course).

Thank you Sarah for another very informative video. After a bit of research I bought my first recorder last month. I intended get a baroque recorder, but then I fell in love at first sight with the transparent blue plastic Yamaha and the only one available on Amazon was German so I HAD to get that one :-) I wanted something inexpensive and fun, and actually I love it to bits! But I understand your points and you are right of course. My next (alto) will be Baroque though. Looking forward!

second video of you that I see and really enjoy it, I'll go with baroque, thanks for guide me.

OMG all those years as a kid, when I would play the recorder, I instinctively added those fingers you were taking about to fix the tuning, and never realized my recorders were in a non standard tuning! And I'm 40! Well better later than never 😅 Thank you, it was a great video 👍

Sarah, if you're interested in my opinion: I think one should consider the German recorder an instrument of its own. Related to the original recorder, but not the same. Just like the tin whistle is not the same as a recorder, even though they are both tubes with finger holes and a fipple you blow into. Actually, in addition to the large fourth hole, Harlan's recorders had another thing in common with whistles: They were originally transposing instruments. The first recorder Harlan had made was an alto in E. Later, recorders in D and A were added. Until a German edict (Nazi German, actually) forbade the making of any new recorders pitched in anything but C and F. Hindemith's recorder trio for the Eutiner Musiktag is written for three transposed Harlan-type recorders. Which were better quality back then. Not only did Hindemith play one himself when the trio was performed for the first time, Friedrich von Huene also praised the original Hedwiga, which had a German fingering, and how well the third octave F sharp on the Hedwiga alto sounded. As you know, this note is difficult to play even on a recorder with baroque fingering as it requires covering the bell with one's knee. Or some kind of stand, whatever.

What did I learn today? TWO types of recorder! Back in 2001 I was walking a pilgrim route in Spain. It was my 50th birthday and I spotted a "cheap and cheerful" recorder in a Spanish "100Pts" (think Poundland) store. Joking with the young Swiss and Chilean ladies I was walking with I told them of the horrors inflicted on UK school kids - the weekly recorder class, every mouthpiece soused in Dettol. When we got back to where we were staying they produced a cake with a candle, a bottle of Cava and . . . . a recorder! I was taught to play "au Clair de la Lune" and that was about the limit of my recorder playing for 20 years until Covid's first lockdown when it was dragged out of the back of a drawer. I've been getting better at it but it always sounded a bit "off" - mind you I now wear hearing aids - and now I know why . . . . it's a German style recorder! Thank goodness I've moved on to fife and penny whistle but now I'm thinking, should I buy a new, English, recorder as well?

For more than 25 years I had a trio of Moeck Tuju Baroque recorders, Soprano, Treble & Tenor, but could never afford a matching Bass - the only ones appearing on the second hand market were end blown - wrist breakers for me. Finally my wife bought me a matching Bass with a very nice crook head, oblivious of the fact that it was German fingering. However , I quickly realised that as I was going to have to teach my eye-to-finger system to work from the Bass clef anyway, it's actually no problem at all , the only real drawback is that the single F key means I really can't get a bottom F sharp!

I thought I was going mad playing in G with that F# being so sharp! I am now at piece and buying a baroque recorder. Enlightening.

Welcome to the clarinet world. Here also exist two systems. The german and the international used Boehm system...

Very Informative and Awesome Talk on the difference between Baroque and German recorder 🙏🎶🎶🎶🎷😘❤️👏✌️🙏

I had that problem before. Everything began to change when after six years of using the German style, I switched to the barroque one. The first six months were complicated, until I finally began to use the alto recorder and the other ones. The good thing was that I only used the german fingering with my soprano recorder. The confusion was less.

Thank you. I only play German-style soprano Recorder. It's my 'thing'. It was the only one I could afford that I really liked. Thank you for sending me the link.

I have 2 recorders, one is German and the other Baroque. I must confess I always preferred the German system cause I've been taught with that one... But is is totally true that it has a lot of limitations.

I thought I had a baroque recorder! It turns out, after 4 years of playing it, it’s a German! THAT’S why my tone was always off! Thanks for the wonderful vid!

Inspired by your videos, I started playing recorder, duets with my daughter. We got a very good priced German wooden recorder for her, and a plastic Baroque Yamaha. The two alto recorders sound funny when played together I think this may explain the issue. 😅

Hello Sarah, this was a very interesting video. Reading here and there, I get the impression that baroque fingering is always better. The real reason German fingering hasn't disappeared yet is that school teachers can be... let's say "set in their habits". Also, most of them in most schools are not going to teach any recorder tune that is not extremely basic. As a consequence, manufacturers of cheap recorders will always go for the German fingering because it is the one that actually sells. Personally I got rid of my old German soprano all too happily and got my Yamaha 300 instead.

i love to play everything xD i think both fingering systems have positive and negative things, so i use both, i choose the system depending on what im playing... much of the folk and asian repertoires is better to play using the german system while "traditional recorder european repertoire" feels more confortable in the baroque system.... some asian and folk tunes are easier to play in the baroque system and some western pieces are also easier in the german system.... so i dont really focus on the system, but on the aplicability! 😁

Remind me of Pythgorean vs Equal Temperament tuning. Like the F you mentioned, it's exactly the key point of the tuning matter. So ya, so much more to learn from a recorder perspective. Appreciate it!

Baroque for me. Always. Thanks for sharing 🙋‍♂️

Thanks for the video. Now I know what the problem is and why I 'm tuning.. My next recorder will be a baroque recorder 😀

Thanks for this video. There's not much in-depth online discussion about German vs Baroque. I was raised a clarinetist by a professional clarinetist and music professor--- and I ended up in the Air Force Band playing clarinet and playing the Alto sax in the dance band---and later teaching clarinet at the university level. The first recorder I picked up was a Hopf soprano with German fingering and of course I was very used to playing the non-forked F like with the clarinet---and so I could move around fast on the thing without using the fork F. With me and my Dad's vast library of clarinet music I started playing all of it on my wooden recorder---you just have to raise the low clarinet notes below middle C up an octave. There's a treasure trove of recorder music in clarinet music!! And plenty of beautiful Duets for Two Clarinets---and easily played on recorder. I upgraded to a Woodi german recorder but really need to get a high quality German recorder---and Moeck makes a couple "professional" models---Flauto Rondo models with german fingering.

In 1990 my mother toured a recorder factory in Germany, and she brought back for me a very fine wooden recorder she had purchased at the factory. I loved the gift, but whenever I'd play the recorder the F would be so out of tune I could not stand it. In my mind this instrument must have been a factory reject, so I tossed the recorder. Many times over the coming years my mother would talk about this recorder she had carried all over Europe for me, like it was the most precious gift she had ever given me. I never told her I had tossed it. A few years ago I came to learn that German fingering differed from Baroque fingering,. Doh! I laughed and I cried when I realized I had tossed my most precious gift in vain.

This is amazing. I was wondering why th f sharp sounded so close g on my recorder. I figure it out myself before chek that out with u because of course . you are the authority on the recorder. Your receive pronunciation gives u that title as well.

I just bought a new recorder the Mollenhauer 5924 Modern Alto, I'm so excited to play it

Hello, I play both fingering Systems. I got two bassrecorder from Adler/Heinrich 196? 25€ Ebay-Kleinanzeigen and Moeck 1958 in german fingerung. Both as an experiment without great expertations to the Sound. And I was pretty surprised about the nice sound. I'm not playing in an ensemble, just for me and feeling good and i'm happy with them. My soprano recoder a Moeck Rottenburgh with baroque fingering and i love the accurate tuning of it. The baroque bass recorder i tried bevore where not playable for me because of dwarflike hands and fingers. Switching beetwen the fingering systems is no Problem. SPECIAL THANKS FOR ALL YOUR WONDERFULL VIDEOS. I LOVE YOUR ESPRIT AND HUMOUR. There no day without: Hello I'm Sarah and i'm a recorder player.....Love from Germany

Sarah, I just got a used Alt Aulos with Germanic fingering and it has a double hole on the 4th hole ... is that a workaround? Thanks!

Delightful! Most of my recorders are Baroque but there is one German Soprano. Usually it lives alone in my bag so I can practice fingering (silently) wherever I am waiting. Silent practice doesn't require "correct" fingering for the "German" instrument. And I am aware of some of the fingering difference in case I do need to play it with good solid German fingering (such as when my medieval consort meets and they have German recorders..... It's not worth arguing about! The point is PLAY and be happy.

This actually remind me of my primary school days where learning to play the recorder is an essential part of our music lesson, along with singing certain songs. That was in China and about 20 years ago. What we used were plastic recorders, and those were for the German system, which I had totally forgot or failed to noticed before I watched this! FYI primary schools in China use assigned textbooks so only several sets there, and in one state every single school uses the same thing. (I'd say 2 or 3 sets for the whole country maybe but not very sure). So this means millions of Chinese around my age actually learnt how to play a recorder in primary school to a certain level. I guess who ever designed our music textbook just believe that German fingering should be easier for kids, or maybe they are cheaper. Actually not many can play it properly in my class... Those plastic recorders were used a lot as a sword in fight though as you can imagine XD

Hi Sarah...I was looking for a Wind Instrument to learn. I started watching your videos and your passion for the Recorder got me interested...I purchased a Recorder , and look foward to learning this instrument...for now I kinda get dizzy when playing the C scale...have to learn how to breath...

Thank you Sarah!

Back when i wanted to take keyboard/piano lessons, the music-school pushed very hard on getting a year of "Algemene muzikale vorming" (General Musical Development) wich ment learning to reconize measures, learing about different kinds of instruments,.. (and more) and PLAYING THE "Blokfluit" (recorder). And because they expected most of us to go to different kinds of instruments, we used German fingering-style. Those of us that bought the recorder trought the school got one from Yamaha.

I so love watching people talk about things they're passionate about

Thank you so much my son is moving up and his teacher said the German fingering is preferred but I can find one in my town. So we are.planning to buy a Yamaha tenor baroque recorder.

Good information!

Thanks Sarah. Your tips are giving me an idea of ​​which instrument to play. As you can see on my channel, I have learned to play many instruments in a self-taught way. I have not learned the baroque system and I want to change the way I work with recorders. I've been watching the video on thomann flutes, but I like Aulos better, although the price is a bit scary, but I know that if I buy an Aulos, I won't have octave problems like on Thomann. I have not yet decided to buy tenor, sopranino and soprano. What would you recommend? I am willing to go from the German system, which I don't like at all, to the Baroque to have more breadth of work. The flute that scares me the most to buy is the soprano, I know that it is the one that has the most lack of definition and I don't know which one to buy. Greetings from Spain and thanks for your advice.

Sarah, thx for another intstructive video. Could you tell me what brands make the baroque system? In sopranos, altos and tenors, please! Not easy to find at all, even in a big city! Btw, I partly grew up in A'dam, and miss the city a lot! Take care. 👋

I'm playing both baroque and german Recorders. There are many beautiful old instruments with a vivid soulful sound that i ve found, and i va made theam a part of my recorder family at home :) this is the reason, why i play it. And little differences in fingering are a godd training. I`m using different tunings on my guitars as well, each has its charms. Maybe this is, why i#m not confused. its just: "oh, my brown Tuju Alto - and i play german" - "oh, my baroque Schneider - and i play baroque automatically.

Thx soooo much Sarah 😘

So nice to see this this morning. Great video as usual. I'll stay away from German tuning.

Great video!

Thanks, Sarah. After watching several of these, the question about German vs. Baroque came up naturally. So, how bout this: by "folk music" our friend Peter had in mind mostly tunes in C, which will use F natural a lot more. If you play tunes in G and D (Irish and Scottish, for instance), the F# will be more important. I am watching these instead of practicing; do I get some extra credit anyway?....maybe?

I was starting to think the German F was so much easier but you have convinced me to keep to the baroque thank you

Excellent work, Sarah.watching this video because I have to play recorder for a elementary music class , and end up learning a lot. Let me see if I understood: German style recorder was invented by a British guitarrist named Peter, who wanted to make the instrument more “popular”, but in fact created a whole bunch of tuning and transposition issues? Great job Peter 😂

love the history and techie stuff... I take mine fishing or anywhere for that matter...all I need is a place were i not bothering any body!

Usefull information! Could you make video about how to connect articulation with the phrasing?

Hi. I am fairly new to the recorder and I have both a baroque and a German. I ended up gravitating to the German recorder because I found I was more successful playing the E and especially the D notes than I was (am) on the baroque recorder. Is there an actual reason for that to happen? I still struggle on those notes when using my German recorder but not nearly as much as when I use my baroque. Also, through inexperienced ignorance I was playing the F note the same on either recorder.

I just ordered a German soprano recorder as my first music instrument last night and saw this

I received a good wooden instrument with german fingering. Is it possible to modify the hole size to make it baroque?

Hi, Sarah! I love all of your videos. Thanks for helping people understand the differences between these instruments. I’m going to send you a video regarding an F Bassett with German fingerings. Hopefully you can check it out and hopefully you find it interesting!

Thanks. The video was great and it totally solved my problem.Now I know what is the difference between baroque system and the german system. 'cause I'm thinking to buy one yamaha ( cheap one :D ) alto recorder with baroque system just to get my hands finally on :D So thankyou so much ;D

Yes, I have heard that there is a German type of fingering because I have seen the fingering charts. But I have been raised playing the traditional one I have used since I was 8 years old. No reason to stop now. I honestly have never seen a German type for sale here is the US back when I was a kid. That was before the interweb thingy. Though I am loathe to make this an echo chamber, I must wholeheartedly agree with your premise that in the end it is much preferred to go traditional for the reasons you stated. Learning the instrument as a child, I remember the forked F fingering confounding me for maybe a day. Once I learned how easy it was to sharpen the F, I got over my trauma and just started to play. I have been doing ever since.

If you want to eventually move on to flute or oboe, the Baroque/English fingering is very much the right one and most advantageous to learn. Even the Bassoon follows it quite a lot, but watch out for that thumb there. I actually became a pianist and string player after learning the recorder really well, and learning to read music. The recorder is a wonderful, underrated instrument. I stillplay and have a mixture of better plastic and wooden recorders (esoecaiilytenors and trebles)

It is not the important thing... but once upon a time Moeck made german system bass recorder (I know it because I already have it).

On your video all the notes which fingerings are they? And please inbox me some information where the baroque fingerings are concern.

Ha ha, second video and second entertoyment! I feel sorry that I did't find this message before I have bought my recorder. It is in German style, because I was lurked to professional advice about easiness... At least I know what will be my next step 🙂