Great talk. My 9th grade history teacher was really well versed in the Civil War. I loved listening to him talk about the war, as he was so into it--to the point where he would sometimes talk about events in the first person as if he was there. I could tell that he had read so much about it that it had become a part of him. I was fortunate to have a couple of really good, inspirational teachers.
I had the immense pleasure of Tim Smith giving us a private tour of Devil’s Den. Watching his youtube videos, I have learned more about the Battle of Gettysburg than from any other person alive. Thanks Tim!
Hey Mr. Tim, I loved meeting you yesterday at that fabulous new museum, Beyond the Battle! Because I was born and raised near Baltimore, I have that Baltimorean accent, forcing me to say….”Gett-eeeesss - burg. Thank you so much for sharing those stories, just goes to show that rumors ran rampant even in the early days. XO. ~ Bonnie
Many thanks for your video. I am in the UK and have never understood why there was an anti Longstreet theme. He was as good a general as any during the conflict. If he had the resources available to the Union the war would have had a few varying results. The defensive line at Gettysburg however was a near impossibility to break and could not have been by-passed successfully. Best wishes.
Well, as a Scot, I’d instantly pronounce this as Gehttis-Burg. However, the Scots variant ‘Geddes’ (a part of the town of Nairn, in the North East of Scotland), seems to be directly linked to the name, giving the pronunciation Geddehs-Burg. The classic Scots-Irish Getty also confuses things. That would give the town’s name as Gettaes-Burg! I’d personally say the two former versions are in the right ballpark.
Another myth is that Buford’s cavalry was equipped with 7 shot Spencer repeating carbines and that is why they were so effective in slowing the Confederate advance on July 1. Actually they had an assortment of single shot breach loading carbines such as the Sharps. The 5th and part of the 6th Michigan Cavalry of Custer’s Michigan Cavalry Brigade, which fought at East Cavalry Field were armed with Spencer Rifles.
Heth did in fact move on Gettysburg to obtain shoes. Heth stated this himself in his memoirs and secured Hill's permission to do so. Calling this a "myth" is, in effect, saying that Heth is lying- and there's not one shred of evidence to support 'that' assertion. Heth's search for shoes was 'the' reason why a meeting engagement took place between Confederate and Union forces on 1 July. If Heth had not moved into Gettysburg looking for shoes, it's highly likely that no engagement would have taken place at all on 1 July- particularly since Lee wasn't looking for one until his army was concentrated.
Exactly. Its immaterial whether there ACTUALLY was a shoe factory in the town. Heth THOUGHT there were shoes to be had in Gettysburg. You can't dispel a myth using what we know now. You have to get into the commander's head with what they knew on the ground, at the time. Heth told us what he thought. Heth told us he even got permission from his commanding officer. You can't just dismiss that because what he thought at the time was actually incorrect. Would the battle still have been fought in and around Gettysburg? Most likely yes. Because of the road network just like Tim says. But it would not have been the same battle we know.
@@cleburne1863 Yep. What this fellow has posited is after- the- fact second guessing. Additionally, Lee was preparing to move on Harrisburg- so it's a great unknown whether or not Lee ever intended to fight a battle at Gettysburg. What we do know is that: 1. The strategic objective of the campaign was to remove pressure from the Confederates at Vicksburg (from Reagan's memoirs, Lee's Apr 1863 statement to Seddon, and the discussion of the Confederate cabinet in mid- May), and; 2. Lee's plan of campaign was to maneuver the AotP into attacking the AoNV (from Lee's after- action report and Longstreet's memoirs).
The shoe thing for me is somewhat unresolved for all time - Just because Harry Heth may have learned latter that Gettysburg had no shoes, or that all the armies were diverging, even directed by certain commanders to go to Gettysburg, undeniably does not mean Harry Heth was not looking as well for shoes for his men. He was not to know at the time there was no shoes there, nor whether Union forces were going to be there, rather that the prerogative in getting shoes for many of his foot-worn shoeless men could have been vitally important. If Heth said post battle he was originally before first day encounter going to get shoes in Gettysburg for his men, the later truthful information about the battle undeniably does not overturn his first ambitions in shoe seeking.
Just because there was no factory doesn't mean they weren't looking...he even states it was a hub of roads that would imply transportation...perhaps warehouses of possible supplies...so i agree just because people have conflated the shoe 'factory' stories doesn't mean they weren't looking for shoes. They documented they were looking for shoes, how is it a myth...you're so right
Great info. Thank you, Tim, for debunking a few of the popular myths. The shoe myth.....drives me nuts how many people actually believe that. You are a wealth of info. Greatly appreciated. And yes....."Gettysburg" with a short "i" sound.
I read somewhere that the rebels DID score some hundreds of pairs of shoes near Gettysburg in the week before the battle...but not from a 'mythical shoe outlet'. Lol It was the Skirmish at Marsh Creek with the 26th Pennsylvania Emergency Militia, there were a few casualties, and the rebels took about 175 prisoners. Eventually they paroled them, but before they did they scolded them for being foolish, and told them to go home to their mamas...and confiscated their shoes and gear. I read also that they found a big supply of rations on the train in Gettysburg that brought the militia to the area. I can't remember where I read this, or if I got the details right, but I think it involved Colonel French of 17th Virginia Cavalry. If anyone knows anything about this...help me out!!!
Henry Heth wrote this in his report, it was HIS reason to reconnoiter the town, but he is wrong, and this guy is right. The fact that there was no shoe factory in Gettysburg means absolutely nothing as to the knowledge Heth had at the time. And the concentration on Gettysburg did not occur until after Heths soldiers were heavily engaged. Lee had troops in Carlisle and Wrightsville at the time the battle opened.
Of course Heth moved on Gettysburg to obtain shoes. The battle took place as it did because Heth moved to get them, and a meeting engagement ensued with Union cavalry. I'm not sure what this fellow's motivation for saying otherwise is, unless it's just to create a talking point. Regardless, it's just absurd.
Is it true that Longstreet suggested withdrawal and regroup after the first day? Also, why was A.P. Hill's corps not allowed to outflank the Union positions when they had the chance? Questions for you from an interested Englishman in the UK.
I’m always curious about the pronunciation of Adelbert Ames first name. In the movie Gettysburg it’s pronounced AYE-del-bert and I wonder if that’s how HE pronounced it or if the makers of the movie didn’t know how it was pronounced. There are a few people named Adelbert in my family but all of them pronounced it ah-DEL-bert.
I've always put the most emphasis on Day 1. Then learned more as years went on and Day 2 became a geat study point. Day 3 is an after thought. I do really like Culps Hill though, its kind of the exception to day 3. I drift in an out on Gburg, online sites really ruin much of it because people put forth such drivel and outlandish ideas never backed up with facts. Take the shoe issue, even Chaplin Chuck/gdg was guilty of such. It takes away from the evidence suppoted discussions which we seem to be getting from Adams County Historical. Good Job ACHS. Super stuff
Isn't practically every town/city in America pronounced "incorrectly", especially those not derived from non-English surnames (but probably those too)?
I dissagree with the statement the South "won" the first day. The Union conducted a successful defense in depth to preserve the higher ground to the south of town. That was what Buford and then Reynolds plan, and it worked marvelously even after Reynolds death. Sure, some Units broke and retreated in dissary, but others fought holding actions all the way through the city. Moreover all units were ralied and placed in defensive positions on Cemetery Ridge as they fell back. The Southern leadership, caught up in Napolionic erea norms of "gallantry" wrongly thought that if an army retreated, it meant they had broken it.
Are the rocks at Devils Den 2.5 million years old? Yes. Would the geological feature we know today be the same (formed) if the landscape had not been gauged out by glaciers in the last ice age 10,000 years ago? Probably not. Its a distinction without a difference.
Technically, the last ice age (Late Paleozoic) ended about 60 million years BEFORE the Devils Den formation was created. The "ice age" to which you refer was actually the most recent glaciation period within the Quaternary ice age that we are currently living in.
Lee was facing the third day with 7 fresh, untouched, Virginia regiments in Pickets division. There was NO WAY Robert E Lee was going to leave that battlefield with Pickets entire division including the Virginia regiments not being engaged. Lee knew it would be slaughter. But thats how he was. He would show the enemy how bad things will get if they ever try to corner him. Technically, Lee lost that battle however he made the Army of the Potomac almost inoperable as a fighting force for 5 months AFTER the battle. His almost Kamikaze like ferocity scared the shit out of Union Generals.
Wow…that’s a whole new bit of apologetics. Lee didn’t send his men to slaughter to send a message - he thought the Union center had to have been depleted to reinforce the flanks, but Meade anticipated that. Lee was frustrated and made a very poor decision. That attack did *not* inflict major damage on the Army if Potomac; in fact it was Lee’s Army that was never again able to take the offensive. Union commanders were anything but frightened…you do know who won the war, right?
Its immaterial whether there ACTUALLY was a shoe factory in the town. Heth THOUGHT there were shoes to be had in Gettysburg. You can't dispel a myth using what we know now. You have to get into the commander's head with what they knew on the ground, at the time. Heth told us what he thought. Heth told us he even got permission from his commanding officer. You can't just dismiss that because what he thought at the time was actually incorrect. Would the battle still have been fought in and around Gettysburg? Most likely yes. Because of the road network just like Tim says. But it would not have been the same battle we know.
When you look at the terrain around Gettysburg, from a war gamers perspective, you can almost see as the world was formed, someone pointed and said, one day a great battle will be fought there.
I always remember different times on a bus tour on the battlefield, as a kid in the 80's, the tour guide saying that if all four hooves were in the air , they were flying, I've never forgotten that. . hilarious. Growing up in the 80's and 90's visiting the battlefield was a unique time. Thank you all for all you do. You all are awesome
I think the ice age and the 200 million year thing can be harmonized. The rocks were pushed up to the surface of the earth 200 million years ago, but carried to Gettysburg during the last ice age. The ice carries rocks and deposits them in places. I don't see a problem here.
I heard about the hoof myth from two seperate visits to Gettysburg through the official guides. I didn't know it was a myth till recently. The visits were in the 90s.
Always enjoy learning from Tim Smith. A Teenager’s Guide to the Civil War: A History Book for Teens is a history of the war specifically for teenagers.
Two pronunciations? That’s nuthin’. I’m from Concord, MA. Concord. Con-cod. Cawncud. Con-CORD. CON-curd. There must be 100 ways to say it. Which way is right? Only the drunks at the long gone Wayside Inn knew for sure, and they’re long gone now, too.
Very interesting myth vs fact video. We love visiting this town. We learn something new with each visit. We bring the grandkids to share history with them as they are certainly not being taught about it at school these days. Thanks, Tim
Give me a break, you said that it was no accident that the battle started at Gettysburg. General Lee would not start any battle that he did NOT have the high ground. He was pulled into this battle.
(1) Some historians believe the first day of the battle was decisive for the battle… casualties were ferocious and until the 11th Corps collapsed the fight was chaotic but manageable. The Confederates sustained losses they could not replace. It was similar to Nazi attack towards Moscow… kept winning but were really sustaining irreplaceable losses and combined with being slowed, the USSR bought time for winter to take place. The first day at Gettysburg allowed the Union to get its act together, consolidate and then prevail the next two days. (2) If Heath thought there were shoes in the town that would be cause enough to investigate? (3) Having visited Gettysburg many many times, you made a nice video here! I was ignorant of the pronunciation issue.
I like the idea that the Union in particular didn't want to fight a battle at Gettysburg. Meade was known as a pretty aggressive commander before taking over. Lincoln was constantly looking for aggressive commanders. Once Meade took command he sent his most aggressive commander forward of the test of the army with a significant force knowing that if he found a good opportunity to start a fight, Reynolds would do it, and once that has happened Meade didn't order him to retreat or anything. He sent Hancock and his troops as his deputy to reinforce the battle and take command to decide if it was a good idea to bring in the rest of the army to fully commit to the fight. Those are not the actions of a commander who isn't looking for action.
It may have been 30 years ago when I first ran into Tim Smith. I was with Ed Bearss on LRT and I seem to remember you were talking about the age of the rocks in Devil’s Den back then.
The original and local name of the town may have well have been pronounced as ‘Gettis-burg”, but the town was transcended as a national event during those three days of battle in July. The name of the town was reported in the newspapers and pronounced by people who had never heard of it before. The public name, the name carved into the heart of the nation, became ‘Gettees-burg’. The battle and the town are a part of us now, and both names are correct.
Thank you Tim Smith. I’m curious to hear your opinion on the M Shaara historical fiction, Killer Angels. I loved the book, the treatment of the events surrounding the battle.
A very informative presentation. I wasn’t aware of the debate about the pronunciation of the town. It echoes the controversy about the proper pronunciation of “gerrymandering”. The family of Elbridge Gerry has been reported to pronounce the last name with a hard G (like “golf”) not like a J. But the word is usually pronounced with the J sound.
Was day three the big charge through the open field towards Big Roundtop? I think so. I often ponder...why didn't Lee have wooden armor constructed for this charge? Possibly V shaped blades like a train snowplow, that could have been pushed from behind by a horse, and soldiers behind it and shielded.
One of the primary reasons Pickett's Charge failed is that most of Trimble and Pettigrew's men retreated from the battle and never got to Cemetery Ridge. Pickett's Men suffered 80% casualty rate. Trimble and Pettigrew's men suffered 30% because most of their men abandoned the battle before reaching Union lines.
