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Ginger Rogers , Lucille Ball & Katharine Hepburn - The RKO Story 

GingerPeachyMe
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Excerpt from "A Women's Lot" - Part 3 of The RKO Story - (1987)
Available at: keep-it-gingery-ginger-rogers....

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1 май 2012

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Комментарии : 133   
@benniemitchell4212
@benniemitchell4212 6 лет назад
Lucille Ball,blazed her way from the bottom to making television history during a time that things didn't come easy she truly deserved all the awards and accolades she is truly a legend for all times.
@edwardhannah
@edwardhannah 5 лет назад
She was auditioning for a Lucille Ball type role and didn’t get it? That’s hysterical. This confirms what a disciplined hard worker she was. Lucy approached her craft very seriously.
@mgtowp.l.7756
@mgtowp.l.7756 4 года назад
You Got That Right
@edwardhannah
@edwardhannah 4 года назад
MGTOW That’s what Lucy would say!!
@larkturner3532
@larkturner3532 Год назад
Lucy is my spiritual guide
@michaeltekulsky5665
@michaeltekulsky5665 5 лет назад
i've never seen Lucy so relaxed in an interview. very interesting
@MiiZzJ0kEr
@MiiZzJ0kEr 3 года назад
that’s to show that Lucille cared for Ginger.
@Ash-ms
@Ash-ms 2 года назад
I know right?! She seems so light-hearted in this interview. Nice to see 🙂
@joshuataylor6087
@joshuataylor6087 5 лет назад
Lucy was the Gand Dame, she just oozed talent, charisma, beauty and intelligence.
@Crumphorn
@Crumphorn 11 лет назад
Very good advice by Lucy on how to get ahead in any business.
@nepsadoc
@nepsadoc 12 лет назад
Thank you for posting this. I'm a huge Lucille Ball fan, also adored Ginger Rogers & Katharine Hepburn. I like Lucy's positive attitude, too. She ended up buying RKO with Desi 20 years later. One of a kind, there will never be another Lucille Ball. Glad we have the reruns.
@bobbillings
@bobbillings 10 лет назад
WOW!! it's unbelievable what young, drop dead gorgeous, smoking hot BLONDE bombshells both Lucille Ball and Ginger Rogers were in the 1930's!!!!
@guyinsf
@guyinsf 3 года назад
@Pat Kat Katherine was more of the classy, cerebral, beauty type. Not the bombshelll type.
@bostonblackie9503
@bostonblackie9503 2 года назад
During an interview with Burt Reynold and various female movie stars of the golden era, he asked a question "What did you miss?" Right away Ginger said "Lucy, I miss Lucy." The others all agreed!
@guyinsf
@guyinsf 2 года назад
This was after Lucy's death?
@tarnsand
@tarnsand 9 лет назад
These stars like Lucille Ball are fascinating to listen to as their background in acting started with studying and working very hard aand at a very young age.. They were not pampered and priviledged. Nowadays interviewers have to find some shock value to try and make an interview somewhat watchable. Real stardom was buried with the last of the golden age of Hollywood imo.
@ryanmiller1878
@ryanmiller1878 9 лет назад
I love Lucy. What a legend. She still looked good as an older woman.
@dannybex
@dannybex 6 лет назад
But so sad that she couldn't stop chain smoking. She sounds like Henry Kissinger...
@allenrichards4176
@allenrichards4176 6 лет назад
Lucille Ball's voice has gotten pretty deep as she grew old, I'm sure due to the smoking, cause Ginger still had a nice feminine voice. They both still looked good for their age, considering this interview was taken in the 1980s, 40-50 years after their beautiful golden days
@larryhawkins3294
@larryhawkins3294 4 года назад
I liked the sound and anonciation of Lucille Ball's older voice. She comes off as an older glamorous college professor.
@cmaggie5748
@cmaggie5748 Год назад
Yes one of her last kovies was the stone pillow depicting a homeless life. Excellent movie. Lucy started out as a show girl. She worked hard. Another woman I enjoy is Carol Burnett avdvstes up there in age
@jaengen
@jaengen 10 месяцев назад
We all love Lucy the characters she played. Her real self though, not so much. She was a mean old lady.
@user-mx2uc9ue3t
@user-mx2uc9ue3t Год назад
Gail Patrick acted with all three of these ladies in 'Stage Door' and worked with many, many others over her long career including as the producer of 'Perry Mason.' Gail said, "Ginger was the biggest star and the greatest actor that RKO ever had."
@allenrichards4176
@allenrichards4176 6 лет назад
Both Ginger and Lucille still looked good, considering this video was taken in the 1980s, 40-50 years later from their days of glory
@cocopebbles7713
@cocopebbles7713 3 года назад
@Pat Kat the only date you have right is Ginger Roger's.
@cocopebbles7713
@cocopebbles7713 3 года назад
@Pat Kat Lucille Ball died at age 77, not 89, she was born in 1911 & died in 1989. Katherine died at the age of 96, she was born in the year 1907 & died in 2003.
@lanecountybigfooters5716
@lanecountybigfooters5716 Год назад
Lucy got her start as a background extra on Ginger's movies, then moved to speaking roles, then launched on her own and blasted off to stardom. She also took acting classes from Ginger's mom, Lela. Without the two Rogers women, we might not have had Lucy, and that would be a tragedy. Eventually Lucy got Gingers "Leading Lady" dressing room at RKO years later in a twist of fate. Lovely!
@mthivier
@mthivier 10 месяцев назад
According to an interview I saw a while back with Lucie Arnaz, Lucy and Ginger Rogers were somehow distantly related. (Presumably, Lela and Lucy's mother DeDe were distant cousins, or something like that.)
@pythonsfor6
@pythonsfor6 11 лет назад
Can you imagine being in the the RKO lunchroom back in those days?????
@gingerelvira6587
@gingerelvira6587 4 года назад
Did U know Her & Desi later bought out RKO renamed it to DesiLu studios.
@jamesmorris913
@jamesmorris913 Год назад
I get one distinct impression about Lucy, from this interview...HUMILITY. Just the way she describes seeing her name typed on a script, for the first time; it's almost as if it had happened, YESTERDAY..not decades before, as it had. And, even though she was an undisputed LEGEND, at the time of this recording..it's apparent to me (just, by her overall demeanor) that she STILL, didn't think of HERSELF, as one!
@waynebrasler
@waynebrasler 12 лет назад
I love the intelligence and honesty of actresses of this period. They were all sharp and very much in charge of their ambitions. And they were ready! When the folks at Warner Brothers saw the first rushes for "Romance on the High Seas" with Doris Day in her first role they were flabbergasted. She had everything she needed to explode as a big star; the screen came alive everytime she was in front of the camera. Ditto Deanna Durbin in "Three Smart Girls" at Universal.
@akrenwinkle
@akrenwinkle Год назад
100% right. Harlow too.
@Muswell
@Muswell 10 лет назад
This is fantastic. Thanks for posting. I want to see the whole documentary now.
@MrVidaeverdade
@MrVidaeverdade 7 лет назад
I saw this documentary many (MANY) years ago, and in one part Lucille Ball did a Katharine Hepburn impersonation. She wasn't trying to be funny, she was just trying to illustrate a story she was telling. But the impression was so spot on it made me laugh. I would love to see that again.
@roymayh3819
@roymayh3819 4 года назад
What a great person Lucille was, earns such great respect and admiration, not just the talent but the putting in the hard work. Bravo to a legend of show business.
@carolecarr5210
@carolecarr5210 10 месяцев назад
Having grown up watching these talented ladies it's great to hear their early, learning phase be stories.
@iamintheburg
@iamintheburg 8 лет назад
Great last act of THE MAJOR AND THE MINOR, when Lela Rogers plays the mom of Ginger's character. She was a lovely lady and it's great to see them together.
@ald668
@ald668 5 лет назад
TRUE LEGENDS! Not like the no talents of today.
@johnlorenzen4633
@johnlorenzen4633 4 года назад
Amen!
@noggie3934
@noggie3934 4 года назад
Name one no talent you feel doesn't belong. In my opinion everyone has their place.
@ashashraa6579
@ashashraa6579 2 года назад
@@noggie3934 Nah only a few do.
@johnlorenzen4633
@johnlorenzen4633 4 года назад
This is priceless. Wish we could get rest of interview! True talent legends!!
@deesorrento9246
@deesorrento9246 6 лет назад
Lucy one of a kind no one ever did it better than you
@Elena-gd5qu
@Elena-gd5qu 3 года назад
Ginger Rogers is the best! 👑
@ThankYouForTheMusic8
@ThankYouForTheMusic8 11 лет назад
me three favorite actresses of all time...that is why stage door is one of my favorite movies. wish i could have met them
@taylordowning2533
@taylordowning2533 6 лет назад
Thanks for posting this, a great interview. All three women contributed some amazing memories to the Golden Age of Hollywood.
@dabigdikdangler
@dabigdikdangler 5 лет назад
After watching several Ginger Rogers videos I'm reminded of Joan's assistant in "Fued" telling her nothing could be done for an aging neck except covering it with high collars, Ginger was never without her scarves and looked great!
@windstorm1000
@windstorm1000 8 лет назад
This is fabulous! What wonderful memories of studios/acting by three great stars--notice how they all said they put their time in and learned their craft--attention today's actors--listen and learn here!!
@Sarasdad91
@Sarasdad91 5 лет назад
Thanks so much for posting this video, Ginger..This was fantastic. I'm sure that the 18 thumbs down are people who think reality TV is great acting.
@waynebrasler
@waynebrasler 10 лет назад
Lucy said many times than in making "Stage Door" Katherine Hepburn never talk to anyone else in the cast, as if they were not there. They didn't know what to make of it. She said also the entire cast was a hoot and, of course, it included really an incredible group of legends and legends-to-be. I don't think such a film could be made today.
@TrangPakbaby
@TrangPakbaby 5 лет назад
Wayne Brasler in her book she said the opposite. She said Katharine was very helpful to the cast and they all looked up to her. Hepburn was also going through a career slump during the making of their film, having been voted box office poison
@TheBraveIntrovert
@TheBraveIntrovert 5 лет назад
Alot of people said she was a nice person she just wasnt immediately friendly or talkative to people. She had to feel you out first. This tells me she was probably shy or an introvert.
@7777lizabeth
@7777lizabeth 3 года назад
They make a big fuss about Katherine Hepburn but there's something about her I just don't care for. She comes off very snooty and opinionated. Two of her movies I do like "The Philadelphia Story" and "Bringing up Baby." I've never seen her in anything else that I really cared for. She aged terribly.
@LJ-ht4zs
@LJ-ht4zs 2 года назад
@@7777lizabeth I disagree - I loved her movies very independent lady. Yes, she had opinions - don't you? Said what she felt and meant was she said. She aged beautifully - little makeup kept her slim figure due to exercise - swimming, walking, biking, golf. Naturally athletic. She is a smart one-of-a- kind person.
@user-mx2uc9ue3t
@user-mx2uc9ue3t Год назад
@@TrangPakbaby Lucy was so outraged by Hepburn's behavior on the set that Lucy threw coffee on her. It took a lot of persuasion by Ginger to keep RKO from firing Lucy. Gail Patrick said numerous times that the entire cast and crew loathed Hepburn and refused to stay on set with her except for actual camera work.
@jamesfox2579
@jamesfox2579 6 лет назад
This is such a treat! Thanks so much!!
@jonimichalski69
@jonimichalski69 5 лет назад
I love Them All Forever
@deesorrento9246
@deesorrento9246 6 лет назад
Lucy you are simply the best in comedy and the world was a better place with you in it your the greatest of all my respect and love for you Lucy forever god bless ya and rip miss ya love dee
@lynntownsend4457
@lynntownsend4457 24 дня назад
She wasn't a kind person
@reginabaker567
@reginabaker567 6 лет назад
As I grew aware how the implementation of the Radio Keith Opheum [ RKO ] proceeded to have operation during early production, I could understand why Ginger Rogers's mother acted as a guided for her and many girls such as Lucille Ball. No could have foreseen that unless they were under a contract with RKO studios. I have learned a great many things from reading the biographies of Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz. The fact of the matter is that Lucy acted a coach to children, Lucie and Desi IV while they worked on " Here's Lucy " show with her.
@Nansbbgrand
@Nansbbgrand 12 лет назад
Amazing gals, all! Ginger is sooO--Mmm! Tres elegant! Lucille...does it get any better? And Katharine..well, I think she's about the greatest storyteller of all time! ALL these women were simply the BEST in their particular fields of the industry. Perfect choices for this singular production!
@windstorm1000
@windstorm1000 7 лет назад
you are SO right! they were the best!!
@tenofivelips
@tenofivelips 11 месяцев назад
I absolutely love the work Lucille did with RKO.
@garrengroom3831
@garrengroom3831 3 года назад
You can spot Ginger's Oscar statuette in the background. 🏆 🎥
@illnsp08
@illnsp08 12 лет назад
Enjoyed it! Thks fr posting!
@itslucygooseyy
@itslucygooseyy 11 лет назад
2:05 Lucille was a bombshell
@musicjunkie7549
@musicjunkie7549 6 лет назад
They don’t make them like this anymore
@emnem100
@emnem100 11 лет назад
She did live until age 96 though, so that's a great thing! :)
@bdinchi
@bdinchi 11 лет назад
I recall watching this doc in the late-80s. Would love to find it on DVD.
@OldHollywood93
@OldHollywood93 11 лет назад
I feel like actresses in the old days worked a lot harder to get into movies. Sure, studios gave contracts to pretty girls left, right and centre but that only guaranteed a small amount each week, pin up photo shoots and a chance for a role as an extra. Hundreds of girls came and went under these contracts, but to get even a speaking role took a lot of work, acting classes, elocution lessons, dance classes and god knows what else. Months of work for even a few lines in a film that may or may no
@mthivier
@mthivier 10 месяцев назад
In other interviews, Lucy said that if someone had handed her a broom, and told her to sweep the studio floor, she would have done just that. She was so grateful to be given a chance to learn and advance, that she didn't dare complain.That is why, in later years, she was so impatient when crew members or guest actors would show up to the set ill-prepared, not knowing their lines, or demonstrating some other form of un-professionalism.
@rochellehegedus1250
@rochellehegedus1250 5 лет назад
I love these three lady♥️♥️♥️
@AOrainbow
@AOrainbow 11 лет назад
Yes , she grow old beautifully , and wearing simple close , she as more elegant than the others, but first , i think she was passionate by his work, this interview shown it
@sholarola9457
@sholarola9457 11 лет назад
Awww! Poor Katharine! She looked so old and frail there. Long live the legend!!!
@roxannesantoro7503
@roxannesantoro7503 3 года назад
She might've looked old and frail- compare to Ball and Rogers. But she outlived both of them!😁
@carltonpoindexter2034
@carltonpoindexter2034 5 лет назад
Lucille Ball could have been 5 different people, dramatic actress, singer, dancer,comedian, and director.
@johnlorenzen4633
@johnlorenzen4633 4 года назад
Agreed! My gosh she did it all! Nobody like that now!
@carltonpoindexter2034
@carltonpoindexter2034 4 года назад
@@johnlorenzen4633 I forgot to add: a top model. And when one looks at today's Hollywood, the stars seemed so limited in range and talent.
@jamesfox2579
@jamesfox2579 6 лет назад
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@MrVidaeverdade
@MrVidaeverdade 10 лет назад
Funny you should mention that. I was watching the other day another interview where Ginger Rogers was asked about one infamous occasion where Katharine Hepburn threw a bucket of water on Ginger (out of anger). And I'm looking at a clip in the sidebar where Jane Fonda is telling Marlo Thomas that the first thing Katharine Hepburn said to her when they first met was that she didn't like her. I guess Ms. Hepburn wasn't much into people, but nonetheless was a fascinating person and a great actress.
@lrwnyc
@lrwnyc 6 лет назад
Interesting because Jane told Osborne during her TCM interview that Hepburn was very supportive of her emotionally during "On Golden Pond." Henry had said something very cutting to her and Hepburn went up to her and said something like "They get you like that." Meaning, it's not you, it's men.
@afulle02
@afulle02 5 лет назад
I find Lucille so attractive... in so many many ways.
@julietigermoon9572
@julietigermoon9572 4 года назад
Gorgeous ladies
@carolecarr5210
@carolecarr5210 10 месяцев назад
Ginger, dancing in heels was a phenominal dancer keeping up with Fred.
@GingerPeachyMe
@GingerPeachyMe 12 лет назад
Me too! :)
@tracy1010
@tracy1010 11 лет назад
I LOVE LUCY!
@singergal57
@singergal57 12 лет назад
PLEASE could you post more of this? Where is the rest of the parts?
@solexxx8588
@solexxx8588 4 года назад
I love Lucy! Nuff said.
@kaverisridhara5616
@kaverisridhara5616 Год назад
Tele serials of Lucille Ball with Desi Arnaz were quite embarrassing at some situation when we see their increased reactions and laughter on screen.
@wardarcade7452
@wardarcade7452 2 месяца назад
4:30 It's funny that Lucy found out they were looking for a 'Lucille Ball-type' for a picture in those early days, but after telling them she was interested, they told her she was wrong for the part! I wonder if she ever compared notes with Dolly Parton who said she once entered a Dolly Parton lookalike contest- and LOST! LOL
@joezingher4770
@joezingher4770 2 года назад
What year was this?
@galejordan4642
@galejordan4642 4 года назад
Holy cow! I just donated those same drapes that Lucille Ball had in her house.
@GingerPeachyMe
@GingerPeachyMe 11 лет назад
It's a TRADE site not a "download' for free site. Sorry!
@GingerPeachyMe
@GingerPeachyMe 12 лет назад
For full episode see video description above.
@sanjay4real
@sanjay4real 5 лет назад
Not sure if this has been answered before... But at 3m15s mark, is that Shemp Howard from The Three Stooges!?
@rchydrozz751
@rchydrozz751 2 года назад
Lucy. Learned everything she could at RKO studios. Then she and Ricky bought the place.
@patricemoran7469
@patricemoran7469 Год назад
I, personally, always thought Katherine Hepburn was more than a bit overrated. The other Hepburn on the other hand...Audrey...was not only beautiful and a grest actress but also a great person and humanitarian. In Ginger's autobiography she mentions an incident when Catherine Hepburn threw water out a window on Gingers first new mink coat. Apparently Hepburn's career was stalled as Ginger's (with Fred) was taking off.
@ChrisStockslager
@ChrisStockslager 11 лет назад
Yeah, Ginger and Lucy's looks compared to Kate's: they were trying to re-live their youth, and Hepburn embraced her age with grace. :)
@MrBuddybones
@MrBuddybones 4 года назад
Chris Stockslager and Reagan dyed his hair to the end. So what? People age how they feel comfortable. There is no right or wrong. Wait until you’re in your 70s. Hope you look a fraction as good as they ALL do. Incidentally, Ginger never had any plastic surgery and was not ashamed of aging. Ever. In the end, as a diabetic, she did interviews with sores on her face she didn’t try to hide.
@guyinsf
@guyinsf 3 года назад
Trying to look good and appropriate for an interview it NOT trying to re-live youth.
@GingerPeachyMe
@GingerPeachyMe 12 лет назад
I operate a trade center - I just happened to advertize on RU-vid.
@GingerPeachyMe
@GingerPeachyMe 11 лет назад
I think they call it "Let's cheat it! Nah... nobody will notice" editing! ;) The characters in "Having a Wonderful Time" aren't really teenagers, more like young adults.
@gamerschannel9610
@gamerschannel9610 4 года назад
Wait...Which one got RKO'd?
@kennethhammond8831
@kennethhammond8831 5 лет назад
Lucy was at NIGHT OF 100 STARS! I was there and have pictures. pinch me
@johnlorenzen4633
@johnlorenzen4633 4 года назад
Lucky you!
@richinkle1
@richinkle1 11 лет назад
The movie you're referring to was "Lured". She wasn't a prostitute, though. She was a Taxi Dancer who becomes a Detective with Scotland Yard to track down a Serial Killer through the Personal Column. It was a Douglas Sirk Thriller from 1947. She starred opposite English actor George Sanders.
@brockmeeks1695
@brockmeeks1695 5 лет назад
richinkle1 George Sanders was from Georgia.
@ianpester2851
@ianpester2851 Год назад
Dragon Tales
@nursegrace7492
@nursegrace7492 10 лет назад
0:14 Dear god, Ginger Roger's hair is going to EAT THE WORLD...!
@kimsmith1383
@kimsmith1383 5 лет назад
That was the '80's, days of the big hair.
@amyclarke41
@amyclarke41 6 лет назад
ook
@ericmaine
@ericmaine 5 лет назад
Ginger never came across as very “warm” in interviews- a bit holier-than-thou and uppity
@gingerelvira6587
@gingerelvira6587 4 года назад
I didn't get that vibe.
@catman3552
@catman3552 4 года назад
No mention of Betty Grable. She appeared in 8 movies at RKO between 1932 and 1936. Two of them Astaire/Rogers films. I believe Ginger and her mother found Betty to be compatishon for Ginger. Both were cute, blonde and capable dancers. I thought Betty to be a better singer than Ginger. She had a big number called Lets Knock Knees in Gay Divorcee. In Follow the Fleet two years later her part was butchered. She was one of the trio for Let yourself Go and appeared in a scene with Lucille and Harriette with no dialogue. Her contract was not renewed and she went to Paramount. I think Ginger was jealous of her. Two years at Paramount and she replaced Alice Faye in 1940 at 20th Century Fox. There she became Fox's top female star and the number one box office star of the 1940s. Eat your heart out Ginger!
@MrVidaeverdade
@MrVidaeverdade 10 лет назад
She was not playing a teenager.
@julietteyork6293
@julietteyork6293 Год назад
In her autobiography, Lucy recalls that she threw a tantrum in front of Katherine Hepburn, and how the latter addressed her afterwards.
@lisabrooks9362
@lisabrooks9362 5 лет назад
Irene Dunne was the reigning queen of the RK O lot and there is o mention of her whatsoever in this docjmentady!
@GingerPeachyMe
@GingerPeachyMe 5 лет назад
Irene was more of a mgm star, no? Ginger was the only actor under contract at RKO for 20 years.
@javiervalverde2374
@javiervalverde2374 3 года назад
No, Irene was the reigning Queen of the Lot at RKO from 1931 to 1935 with the success of Cimarron, which won RKO it's only Oscar as Best Picture. She was in Symphony of Six Million, produced by David O. Selznick at RKO and it made a lot of money at the box office. Also The Silver Cord (1933), Ann Vickers (1933) and Roberta (1935). She was key to RKOs success in the early 30s. She left RKO in 1935. Because Irene was reclusive from the 1960s onward, that is a reason she's not in this documentary. I can imagine the BBC filmmakers tried to get a filmed interview with her but were unsuccessful. She was one of the missing pieces of this documentary along with Cary Grant, Joel McCrea, Frances Dee that are missing in this documentary.
@bobbybrown1389
@bobbybrown1389 4 года назад
This is lost on today's actors and the reality stars as well as these RU-vid sensations in my opinion
@myastroflight
@myastroflight 11 лет назад
Katharine Hepburn chose to grow old with such grace and class, she was a presence till the end, natural and real. The others painted themselves up like circus clowns and thought that was sophisticated. They had such HUGE issues over their appearance and ended up looking quite ugly.
@guyinsf
@guyinsf 3 года назад
They came from a generation when you had to look good and made up even at old age. There's no right or wrong here. Katherine was more of a hippie compared to Lucy and Ginger. Anyways your comment is a bit too judgmental because Katherine looking more natural than the other two doesn't necessarily make her a better person.
@koln1996
@koln1996 10 лет назад
Fred Astaire used to criticize Ginger Rogers for her bad taste, and it has become clear why!!!
@followthefleet1
@followthefleet1 9 лет назад
Fred never said a word about Ginger's extravagant taste in late life. Never a word. You did.
@sepio41
@sepio41 6 лет назад
he didn't say she had bad taste BUT he does talk about her ornamentation on her dresses in the documentary series. but knowing fred astaire, he probably said this a lot. so he had more of an issue with hollywood costume designers than with the women that wore their dresses. just saying. smiles, everyone!
@aanon5716
@aanon5716 3 года назад
i never liked katherine hepburn. i didnt think she came off as natural or likable. -for me. my icons were davis, crawford, underrated ball, loretta young, vivian lee, colbert, stanwyck, norma shearer, susan haywood, lauren bacall to name a few....
@americanitalianisrael4008
@americanitalianisrael4008 10 месяцев назад
BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY, WE DON'T HAVE INTERESTING GREAT TALENT LIKE THESE SUPERB INTELLIGENT BEAUTIFUL LADIES TODAY. NEVER WILL. TALENT IN YEARS PAST WAS IMMENSE. BUT THERE IS TWO TALENT OF TODAY THAT ARE SUPERB. MRS. GLENN CLOSE AND MR. TOM CRUISE. THESE TWO ARE INDIVIDUAL TALENTS. WHERE EVERYONE ELSE ARE GOOD IN GROUPS.
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