"Gjurmime Historike-Qyteti i harruar Nikaia (Klosi)"-Tv Apollon (Fier)-Pjesa I

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Qyteti antik i Klosit (Nikaia) ndodhet 1 km larg Bylis -it. Ky qytet rrethohet nga një mur i gjatë rreth 1850 m, duke mbuluar një sipërfaqe prej rreth 18 ha. Muri përfaqëson një nga fortifikimet e hershme të gjysmës së dytë të shek të V para Kr. Ka një hyrje të vetme dhe tre kulla mbrojtëse.
Disa nga monumentet kryesore janë teatri i vogël,
shëtitorja (Stoa) dhe gjurmët e stadiumit.
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Falenderojme stafin e Tv Apollon, Fier si dhe historianin Ilirjan Gjika , te cilet ben te mundur realizimin e ketij dokumentari te rendesishem , i cili hedh drite mbi historine dhe kulturen shqiptare, te shkuar dhe te tashme.

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23 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 34

@bilbilbasha3029 5 лет назад

Cne gjith keto komente ne angilisht.kur jemi Shqiptare dhe po' flitet per historine tone te panjohur

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

Many places in Laberia have “strange” names that appear from the 11th-12th century onwards. Clausi is one such case. The name of Mallakastra, your own homeland, is another case. We are lucky to know many of the pre-12th century place names because in the late 11th century the Byzantines and the Normans fought each other somewhere there and both recorded the place names. And those names are not the same today as it were back then. From some point, after the late 11th century, they changed.

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

@mallakastrioti Can any of you explain the meaning of the name Klozi? From which language does it originate? What is the relation of the name with the place?

@ethnikhart 10 лет назад

Mu be zemra mal kur te pash duke folur vella! Zoti te bekofte. :) (nje mik i vjeter)

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

This is known to some of your intellectuals. Arhsi Pipa, one of them has already dealt with this. The text that follows is from the book “Albanian literature: social perspectives”, by Arshi Pipa, page 72. “It would seem, in the light of our findings so far, that two streams of Albanian emigration merged in the Morea, the one coming from NORTH-ALBANIA and Serbia, and the other from East Albania and Macedonia. Both streams seem to have carried Aromunians with them...”

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

What is the relation of the name Klozi with the place? The people that arrived in that place from the north (modern north Albania, in older times the province of Boyana along the coast) named what they saw in front of their eyes at the time they arrived there and in language they spoke at that time. And what they saw was a fortified place, a castle. And this is what Klozi (or Clausi) meant in the language they spoke at the time they arrived there.

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

Pipa also tried to explain the “Latin paradox”. You see, like in Laberia, the place names used the Bua when they came to Greece proper are mostly Greek and Latin, some are Slavic (Croatian, not Serbian as Pipa assumed). Pipa assumed that it was an Aromanian (Vlach) element among the Bua that named the places but he was wrong. Despite the similarities between the Aromanian and the Dalmatian language (both being Latin languages) many place names could not have originated from the Aromanian.

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

From which language comes from? Like so many other places in Laberia, the name Klozi originates from a Latin language that was once spoken in more northern places and specifically in Dalmatia. That Latin language was called Dalmatian and was still spoken in Greece until 1850, by the descendants of the first Arvanites who immigrated in Greece.

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

we are not so sure about the old name "Nikaia". This was just an theori of the french epigraphist Louis Robert that wrote about the name according to S. Bizantium. But there are not other evidence about the real old name of this archaeologic site

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

Pipa is an important intellectual with an acute eye for some things. Pipa just confirmed the recorded legends of the Bua that they had migrated from north Albania directly to Greece. His arguments are valid if you take the time to read it even though his Albanian "patriotism" prevents him from seeing things clearly.

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

Il passato remoto dei Greci secondo Tucidide (‘archeologia’ del libro I) 2.1. È chiaro, infatti, che quella che oggi è detta Grecia anticamente non era abitata in modo stabile: nei primi tempi, al contrario, si verificavano delle emigrazioni e i singoli popoli abbandonavano con facilità le loro sedi tutte le volte che venivano sopraffatti da altri più numerosi.

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

Yes, but we are not talking about Bue-Shpata immigration into Morea, but about the region of South Albania. there are some other source like that "περί Ιλλυριών ώς εϊησαν οι νυν Αλβανοί, αρχήν δε εγώ ούδε προσίεμαι χον λογον, ώς εϊησαν Ιλλυριών γένος οι Αλβανοί"...and "Έπιδαμνίων χατάρας δι Αλβανών έσπευδε την Κωνσταντίνου " (Ephraemius By Ephraemius, Immanuel Bekker)...source that are many years ago of Shpatas immigration in Greece. So the Albanians were yet in South Albania

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

Per lo più i Greci usano ciascuno la propria lingua, il proprio modo di vita e le proprie vesti; ma gli Ateniesi usano una miscela di costumanze proprie di tutti i Greci. [Xenoph.], Respubl. Athen., 2, 8

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

How are those "Roman colonists" related with the toponyms of Laberia? The people that named those places in Laberia, using toponyms of Latin origin are closely related with the people that once arrived in the province of Boyana in what is nowadays northern Albania from the coastal cities of Dalmatia. At some point, in the late 11th or early 12th century, they had to leave from the province of Boyana and move southwards in what is nowadays Laberia and even as south as western Greece.

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

Who were those people? The people that spoke that Latin language that created those toponyms in Laberia proudly called themselves Roman colonists (“Romanorum colonos se appellantes”, as Barletti, the biographer of Scanderbeg, once wrote for the people of Drivasto). They considered themselves Greeks from southern Italy and initial founders of the Greek cities of the north.

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

There are, of course, additional arguments to support this. If the places had been named by the early Romans, when they first invaded those places, the names would be different, following the early forms of the Latin language. For example, Nikaia could have been named Castellum. With time this would have evolved to Castelli or something like this. Clausi, on the other hand, comes from late Latin. Such forms appear after the 6th-7th century. This occurs with other toponyms of that area also.

@albanianhere6587 Год назад

Hello

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

The case of Nikaia is not so important. Nikaia is not the only case where the names have changed. North of Fier is Spalato. A very strange name considering the place. It is the old name of Split in Dalmatia. South Orikum was once called Porto Raguseo (the port of the Ragusans). Ragusa is the old name of Dubrovnik also in Dalmatia. Then you have toponyms like Klishar, Fier (market in Dalmatian). If Fier for example had been named by Aromanians it would be called Placa or something like this.

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

Frater is a Latin word that means "brother", it is not an Albanian name. Malacasei is the older name of the Aromanians of Pindus (especially those of Metsovo and the sourrounding areas). The Mazarakei were also northerners. According tho their legend they originated from Cotor. They were part of the Bua and occupied Thesprotia before the Chams. So are the Bosichi.

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

"Clausum" like "Clisum" like "Clisura" are some roman remanent toponyms,,, like "Marush=Marusium", or some other intresting and hydronyms, for eg. POVEL (Pavel) river, or Poçem (Potam) etc...How the people learned or how these names remaned till today in the remebrance of the people that live in those places? If they were immigrants they must changed that names but they didn't not. For ex. Marush or Marusium (an tiny river) in latin is an hidronym from the late roman invasion of those places

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

Greeks never existed like an ethnic groups of people, but greek and greeknes was just an culture of the time. During the bysantine era the so called greeks, never called themselves "greeks", neither "hellenes", but "Romioi" (romans, or citiziens of Rome) (See Georg Ostrogorsky)

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

May be this is true,,,but what about Ghin Frati (Malakasei) and Mazareku (Mesarites)? Thus were not from North

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

And since enough time has passed and no answer was given, I will provide my own answers. What is the meaning of the name Klozi? Klozi as it nowadays called, or more properly Clausi as the people that named it would call it, means an “enclosed place”, a castle, in the language those people were speaking at the time they arrived in that place, in the late 11th or early 12th century.

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

Let's analyze what Arshi Pipa says. The "Albanians" of Morea, says Pipa, originate from NORTH ALBANIA and Serbia and from east Albania and Macedonia. Pipa unknowingly confirmed, through his own, independent, research, the recorded legends of the Bua (since those are the "Albanians" to whom he refers) about their origin from the region of Boyana. From there they moved southwards and entered Aetolia in Greece proper and from there they later migrated to Peloponnese.

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

Dalmatian is an sub-branches of slavic language, mixed with some latin words,,,,and arvanites still to speak albanian till today and not any slavo-latin language

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

Is there any evidence about this? The text that follows is from the book “Kosovo, a Short History” by Νoel Malcolm, 1998, page 25. “As for the rural population, which was also mainly Latin-speaking in most of the territory of Yugoslavia and north-western Bulgaria, it is assumed that large numbers of people were driven southwards by the Avars, Croats and Serbs. Some evidence from place-names suggests a flow of such refugees DOWN THE DALMATIAN COAST into NORTHERN ALBANIA...”

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

The toponim "Clausum", sure that is an latin name that arrived till today in this place, but is not of 11th or 12th century, but gone back during the Roman invasion of south Illyria. We don't have any prove about any immigration of people that arrived from north Albania, or Dalmatia or from any other place from north. If is true for what you are saying about any immigration, this people must have spoken any latin language till today, but nobady know any word in "Latinum".

@mallakastrioti 12 лет назад

Yes but Arshi Pipa was not an historian by profession and we can not take for source an writter like Pipa

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

You say that we don't have any proof of any immigration from north Albania towards the south. This is not true! You should know that the recorded legends of the Bua state that they originated from the region of the river Boyana (the one you call Buna nowadays) in what is nowadays north Albania. From the region of Boyana they migrated directly into Aetolia in western Greece and from there to Peloponnesus at a later time.

@HectorBuas 12 лет назад

The Bua migration in Greece occurred in the late 11th or early 12th century, but in any case earlier than 1220. They were already in Aetolia in 1220. The events described by Euphraemius in that text of yours occurred around 1260. We know, from Pachymeres, a very reliable source, that the Albanians were in the region of Zadrima next to Boyana at that time (the Tosks not the Ghegs). The Ghegs arrived much later from Bosnia.