A turbo 5 cylinder would be awesome to see content on. Like an older, domestic Audi RS3 engine, but with another 1.2 liters of displacement! Knowing who makes which aftermarket parts for each platform could be another informative comparison video, too.
Can’t help but admire your willingness to pioneer building these engines for performance. It takes real guts to say “this is a great engine, let’s show the world what it can do!”
I've really liked the Atlas engines since they first came out. I was baffled why no-one was picking up on the performance aspect. Very glad that you are pioneering the virtues of the engine. Kudos!
At least for the inline 5 they had some pretty common issues that kinda killed them from ever being picked up for performance as most people around that time would take the 4200 i6 or the 4300 v6.. I mean you can take a lv3 ecotec 4.3 direct injected engine can be built to make over 700hp to the crank with a stage 2 cam deletion of dod lifters vvt and afm along with 14.5 pounds of boost from a turbo
Thoroughly flogged 200,000+ miles on my 2004 I-6. I can see why it was never put in a pickup. It does move the 4900+ lbs it is in. Well enough to scare the old lady. Also not making it with the larger cylinders for pickups. But mostly because the full size pick up design styling is not convenient for two extra cylinders in length. Also like my brothers '82 300CI F250 real 4x4. That would last too long. Oh and someone built a rail dragster with a 300CI Ford. Fastest 6 banger on the planet. A lot faster than a lot of V-8s. But from the 50s and 60s. "Wouldn't you rather have a V-8?" Why are most of the OTR haulers I-6s? I understand V-8s. Two cylinders shorter for a tighter turn radius. Yes I have had to back up a army duece for almost a mile because the road in Germany was too tight to make the turn.
I have had to change several 4.2 motors for having extra inspection holes in the block. Was usually due to lack of lubrication. One lady went about 17k miles without an oil change.
The 5-cylinder is super underrated. It gives you a very Viper experience, without the cost/packaging issues. All it really needs is a good cam/header setup, a lightweight flywheel, and a TKX dogbox.
I’d like to see you do a build with the 4cyl. I have a Colorado with the 2.9 and plan on eventually turbocharging it. It would be nice to follow a proven recipe instead of trial and error on my part😂.
Would love to see you do a jeep swap with a 2.9 atlas . Jeeps are just begging to get atlas swaps , it only makes sense a lighter more powerful engine with better mpg that fits . You could even run the gm transmission and transfer case on a Cherokee , would be great content and bring the jeep crowd over to your channel.
Not only that, but the 4 cylinder Atlas engines have great low end torque which would match up well in a Jeep. Personally, I towed an old GMC Sonoma on a heavy Uhaul car dolly with my old 2006 2.8L Colorado. It was able to cruise on level highway in 5th gear at 65 mph with 3.42 gears. It got 19 mpg towing that truck too. I loved that truck, but had to sell it after a porous block caused a never ending oil leak.
You'll need an adapter if you want to use any other transmission. The Atlas bellhousing pattern is unique. Not a drawback, just something to be aware of if you're parts shopping. The t-case bolt pattern is regular old GM though.
Interesting note about the VW 5-cyl is that the head casting is mostly the same on the VW 5-cyl and the Audi/Lambo V10, at least on the earlier ones. Obviously there are lots of other differences, but the basics are there.
I worked with one of the development engineers who was on the 6 cylinder. The main goal was more power & better fuel economy than the 4.3. The prototypes showed significantly improved fuel economy. The first production engines did not show this. Lots of research never located what changed. Mike said they were left scratching their heads. Puzzling.
They probably backed off due to emissions, but let it be, GM nailed it with these awesome engines and the fact they can be boosted reliably to 800+ hp with stock bottom end says a lot about reliability at least as long as you're changing the oil often like in any other engine afterall.
i realise you build for high performance but i would love to see you put together the 5 cylinder with individual throttle bodies and velocity stacks to hear it purr👍
Not so sure there would be much performance benefit, but I would expect a great improvement to longevity and the ability to spin to higher RPM without fragging a balance shaft.
I met a guy a few years back who was already in the 300 mph club in SCCA events. He was upgrading and was considering the 5 cylinder GM motor because it really moved a lot of cfm!!
While in college I worked in a VW dealership in Colorado Springs. One of their offerings was a 5 cylinder. I finally caught a factory techy coming through asked him why 5? Well he said 4 cylinders didn't make enough power and 6 was too long!! I thought those clever Germans had discovered a discreet principle of dynamics dictating their move. Nope it was 4 vs 5 vs 6!
I think he's still around. I'll try and contact him and find out what became of that car. He spent a bunch of money doing fluid dynamics and as I recall he was saying that he found a real advantage by running open wheel over streamlined "wheel pants"!!
@@highpointsights Their VR6 certainly wasn't too long. The VR-6 had certain advantages production wise. Compact which is good for packaging. One cylinder head which saves money. Machining lines for engines are expensive. Most OHC V type engines have different heads on each side.
Someday I want to build a Colorado/Solstice sourced open cockpit roadster using the Atlas 5. Its awesome to see somebody else exploring their potential!
You definitely want to get rid of the balance shafts. They turn twice crank speed ( on a four, don’t know on a five ) so the rpm of the balance shafts gets critical when racing. Not to mention the forces of the severely out of balance shafts loading the bearings in a destructive way.
@@Calvin-Nelson When you delete them, can you just disconnect the chains and leave the shafts in place? Or do you have to remove them? Would you need to cover up oil passages?
These engines bring back memories of when I worked at the Chevy dealership. I did quite a few cylinder beads for burned exhaust valves. I was young and felt like a master mechanic being able to take the head off without removing the timing cover and using the wedge tool to hold the timing chain tensioner in place.
@@Noelle0009 ya tell me about it... paid 4k for the "best shop in town" to do my cylinder head and they botched it. Got the truck back and it popped a CEL after 150km.... timing chain. It had skipped a tooth and a half. NO problems with the timing before the head was removed either...
Your videos series about an the atlas engines are quite insipiring and encouraging! If I'm ever going to boost an LL8 I'll hold you guilty for all the sh... adventures I'll get into :) P.S. But really - thanks for the info and videos (as an entertainment content). Hope it's as fun for you to keep it all going as it is for us watching!
Love your videos thanks for supporting my homie a21 bravo, ryan blaser. Cant wait to see his volvo running. Im local to him! Thanks for your sharing of knowledge!
I just worked on one of the 5 cylinders. Guy smoked the motor and had someone install a used one. They left out a dowel pin. It broke the flex plate and he ran it for 2 hours. It broke torque converter. Customer pulled trans new converter flex plate and put new dowel in. He put it together and it leaked all trans fluid out I installed used trans and no more trans leak but oil pouring out of back of engine. I never pulled flywheel because. He said he put nre rear main seal in. Well he did but the rear seal housing had 2 large holes ground in it from broke flex plate. Had to pull trans back out
Fantastic video Calvin, thanks for the info! And I too can't wait to see you mess with the other two engines, minus balance shafts. Of course, I would prefer to hear high RPM 5cyl noises, but either one is cool.
The one notable thing is all the kung-fu noise from the five cylinder. I am also kind of surprised the 2.7l turbo silverado/cadillac engine didnt get an honorable mention.
You and your Dad are very knowledgeable, and we all love the content Calvin. Looking forward to following along as you put that Northstar through its paces.
Great video Calvin! I bought my I-5 Colorado brand new back in 2006 and am still driving it today with 206,000 miles on it! Overall it’s been a pretty decent engine/truck…not a HP beast stock, but has been pretty reliable. By the way, I wanted to come meet you at NNN but there was a lot going on…maybe next year! Love your stuff!
Just an idea: drop the four into a Chevette. Here in Brazil, a drag racing team went the old school route to gain displacement over opponents that are usually powered by Volkswagen or Opel engines: they got an 151 - a 250 minus two cylinders - and stroked it to 3.0 litres. Makes me wonder what an updated platform could do.
I have the dimensions of the 6 cylinder on the wiki. The bore spacing is just over 4 inches, so the math could easily be done. sites.google.com/view/vortec4200wiki/dimensions
amazing video, and engine for tuning. I´m tuning a C20xe engine from Opel/ chevrolet kadett , vectra, calibra. They are amazing engines and make a lot of power!!! I have a goal of passing 1000 hp in my 4 cylinder c20xe , i put all forged and compound turbo.. In the future I will opt for this 6-cylinder vortex mechanism to build a drift car.
ALWAYS a good idea to start off here on a Sunday. Have you seen the thermostat upgrade I did with *"Your homie don't play that"* video for the 4200? and on rumble. Great video of yours, lots of information, any idea how much the 4200 weighs complete?
Calvin i have the 2.9/4l60 sitting in the Opel right now just havent had the time to make the mounts and clearance a few places but its in and weighs 45lbs less than the stock all iron 1.9
Amazing video, I have a 2.9 with 226k on it in my single cab canyon. I've always wished there was more aftermarket support for these engines because they are great!! Can't wait to see you do some more videos on the atlas engines. Thank you!! Subscribed!!
Nice breakdown. I'm raring to see more Atlas-5 builds/content. Also, I'm still impressed by that 7500rpm number. Theoretically, that should just about be the limit of safe piston speed for a durable, streetable engine with the amount of stroke the Atlas series has. Really hammers home the fact that we need a destroke kit to bring these down to a nice, even 90mm stroke. At that point, 8000-9000 is on the table with 7000 to 8000 being comparatively bulletproof.
Guys are taking them 10k RPM with the stock stroke. Think about a Big Block Chevy. They run like 4.5 inch strokes and you see Steve Morris take them to 9500 all the time
@@Calvin-Nelson I guess despite my youth I'm old-school in my thinking. ~25 m/s for the street, 30 m/s hard limit even for racing. Then again, I don't have experience and am basing those numbers off of what hpwizard suggests. 22 for endurance racing, 25 for "short race" (IE F1), 30 for drag racing. Than AGAIN again, those are suggested "mean" piston speeds, so... *shrug* The reason why I thought it checked out is because I compared F1 and Nascar engines and they turn about 25 m/s at max RPM, so I figured to make a reliable street motor you should pick its max RPM similarly to what is suggested despite never being there for any extended period like racing engines are. It just makes sense to me in a pleasingly simplistic way. *EDIT:* I mean damn, 10k rpm on a 102mm stroke is over the 30 m/s "drag racing" piston speed mark. Even if you "maxed out" what this hpwizard website suggests, you should "only" do 8800 (9000 rounded up) on a stock stroke Atlas.
@@Drunken_HamsterIF UR NOT FAMILIAR WITH HONDAS S2000 ENGINES THEYVE GOT SOME SERIOUS PISTON SPEEDS YET ARE KNOWN TO BE DEAD RELIABLE FOR GUY'S WHO DAILY STREET/TRACK(SCCA STYLE) AND SEVERAL HIGH MILEAGE EXAMPLES.
I wonder what the power increase would have been if GM did the larger bore on the 4.2 as well. Really wish GM had released the original TBSS concept, just imagine the aftermarket support it would have now Edit* well it looks like the I4 gained an extra 6% and the I5 gained 10%. So if an extra cylinder added 4% more then the I6 would probably be 14% , so around 331. I could be completely wrong but that looks about right
@@wymple09 yeah I know. It was a twin turbo 400hp 4.2, Motortrend got to test it back in 2002 or 03. It was supposed to be the future TBSS but I'm assuming for cost that it was easier to drop the 6.0 LS2 in it. They were originally going to push the I6 for performance, that is one reason why they ran it in Baja. I don't know if it's because the Bara engine never came to the States that is why they chose to just scrape it or it was just more cost effective. The gmt360 platform was the only platform that was designed around an engine, instead of just designing a vehicle and then dropping in whatever fit
@@MrAero_1 They dropped the entire atlas platform because they wouldn't fit well in the newer upcoming base cars, the Equinox & such. The six was just too long
@@wymple09 I know that but I was referring to the Atlas being dropped from the TBSS model, not it being dropped in 2009. You can actually fit I6 into the Colorado with zero mods, it's a tight fit but it fits.
Audi 5 is a lot more advanced. It’s half the v10 in a Lamborghini Huracan. I have an RS3 and it’s a blast. Engine parts are not cheap. Used engines are over 12k. The heads and timing have a lot of trickery going on inside. Amazing technology.
Duuudddeeee...you got me sold on the 4200, I just purchased a 06 trailblazer for $200 before it gets scrapped. Now i just gotta figure out what I'm gonna put it in lol
@@dilsher12 I'm completely clueless in this area but how does a separate shaft do anything but affect vibrations? I assume that is what you are saying with primary vs secondary balance
I never cared for the 5 cylinder variant. Was supposed to be the power of a 6 cylinder with the fuel economy of a 4 cylinder. What we got was the power of a 4 cylinder with the fuel economy of a 6 cylinder.
Ehhhh, more like we got more power than the 4 cyl that fit where the 6 would not. Fuel economy wasn’t great but a 3.5/3.7 with the precat deleted and the intake plumbing re-worked made surprisingly good power and wonderful induction noises. The 4x4 GMT 355 ride height with those 15” wheels and balloon tires was more to blame for the lousy MPG than the engine. I’d be willing to bet a 6+ speed transmission would have made a big difference too.
Great video Calvin, really appreciate the in depth knowledge you have of all 3 variants. I am really interested in the 3700 5 cylinder (in stock form) for my Volvo 240. I have seen a ton of documentation for getting LS motors to run using the stock ECU + fuse block. It makes a lot of sense. Do you know of any resources where someone like me could get started to better understand what would have to be done to get the 5 cylinder running independent of the car it came from? This would be my first engine swap. Thank you!
The reason for the front sump on the 4200 oil pan was because some of the SUVs it was used in were offered in 4x4 configuration, so the front drive shafts needed clearance. Also, the 5cyl was hot garbage [per a Chevy service tech] with poor service life because of the inherent vibration modes in an I5 [or V10] engine which requires you to design the cases from the ground up to take that added stress. Being a derivative of an I6 [an engine design w/ inherent perfect balance, hence the many decades of popularity for that cylinder config], the I5 Atlas did NOT have the needed reinforcements with resulting short lifespans.
Hello, Calvin. Thank you for your videos, and I hope your dad is doing well. I have been in the automotive repair field for over thirty years, but as you know, it is a different world than high-performance/ drag racing. I'm very picky about the car shows I watch on the internet, and your RU-vid channel is on top of my list. I have been thinking about bracket racing at my local drag strip. I got a light car and a plan for a 400 to 500-hp engine and a stout drivetrain. Because you are good at explaining things, I would appreciate any tips on bracket racing and car setup for beginners if you have time.
Hi, I'm from Brazil, here we use the old GM 250, and all that cylinder cover from the Flintstones era, we love our L6 but this Vortec have an amazing Cyl head I see this engine as a lost diamond in the world drag racing , no one talks about it sadly... happy to know that you think outside the box (v8) heheh. nice video!
Since the 4 cylinders have the best room for it and the exhaust pulses don’t overlap like they do in a 5 or 6 cylinder I feel like they would be the best candidate for turbocharging and I would really like to see the platform pushed. They also make peak torque at a much lower rpm than the other atlas engines from the factory which I thought was kinda interesting. I would also really love to see or do a centrifugal supercharger setup with the I5/I6 given that the I5 would probably hardly lose any power at the crank after a dual balance shaft delete and it would heavily benefit the I6 because of the room constraints it usually faces.
Give the 5 banger some good ole nivlac love. I loved the 3700 I had that thing was something else for 250hp 😂 only engine I truly enjoy the sound of other than a v8.
Excellent video on the difference between the three types of engines. There are a lot of Colorado and Canyons for sale out there that need an engine. The half of a thrust bearing on the center main bearing is a pretty poor engineering design. If you have a manual transmission in one of the vehicles this engine it is used in sooner or later the crankshaft will wear out on the transmission side of the crankshaft thrust bearing surface area. GM could have used a full crankshaft thrust bearing on a lot of these vehicles and they would still be on the road today instead of the junkyard. If you don’t believe me then price one of these engines at a salvage yard and you will see. Rare to find a good one for a reasonable price.
something something inline 5 cylinder crankshaft having each piston at 216 degrees out of phase with the next so in order for each cylinder to have completed one 4 stroke combustion cycle each, the crankshaft will have made exactly 12 full revolutions, which would allow it to be balanced and smoothen vibration. I haven't worked out the ideal firing order for it to essentially 'self-balance' in rotation
Awesome video! You are a very knowledgeable dude and your explanation is spot on! Do you have, or do you know of, or could you create, an electrical side video of how to? I think that’s the most challenging part of a swap to many simple people like myself. I’ve been able to build a plug and play harness for my Subaru to VW buggy swap, but have never gotten into the tuning and performance adders.
I've done a few basic videos on tuning and wiring. The problem is they take a ridiculous amount of time to produce and usually don't get many views or provide much growth.
Hi, new sub, great info on these motors. Do you recommend anyone who can extend the 5 cylinder oil pans to fit the 6 engine? I'm going to mount a 4.2 gen 2 6 in a 07 Colorado 4x4 and add electric fans for clearance but put the project on hold due to the oil pan. Thanks in advance
