God's Provision of Atonement for All 

Well that's why Biblical Calvinists reject the Calminian notion of the well meant offer.

Jenny Thomas Amen!

Ruby, do you think God is a liar? Do you think God is a promise breaker? Well, 'limited atonement' makes God a promise breaker and a liar. The Bible says it impossible for God to lie and He has never broken a promise. God is "not the author of confusion" but Satan is! Read The Second Epistle of John, verses 9-10-11. 3 very simple and clear verses. The word ALL is in the Bible OVER 517 times...ALL means ALL. The word sovereign is a French word and wad a favorite of John Calvin, actually a French lawyer that got on the Reformation movement. The word sovereign is not mentioned in the original Bible altho some are bringing it in since the New Age Movement and Replacement Theology. Be like a Berean, alert and discerning. Also, realize Satan's main target is the church and above that is the Pastor. Get pastors bringing Calvinism back into this world misleads the sheep and it is defintely the work of Satan with "seducing spirits and doctrines of demons". Read and study. Sola scriptura. The NIV Bible has the word "sovereign" in it 300 times. Buy old Bibles printed before 1970-72.

@@reynaldodavid2913Jo we all were children of the devil before being grafted in by the atonement of Christ. How does one become elect? It's by faith in Christ Jesus. How does one come to faith. Romans 10 says 17 So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ.

@@reynaldodavid2913Jo please explain to me how this parable demonstrates your claim of limited atonement. If God selectively Chooses each individual before they were ever born for salvation then there is no need to specifically claim the enemy planting the tares. It would be God also planting the tears amongst the wheat. He created them for destruction if you read it this way it doesn't make a lot of sense tbh.

@@reynaldodavid2913Jo I think you eisegsis is wrong. For one God warned Cain that if he did well he'd be accepted but if not sin is crouching at the door. Pharoah hardened his own heart first. Judas couldn't live with the guilt and hung himself. He didn't think turning Christa in would lead Jesus to his death. That's why when he found out he tried giving the pharasess their money back. Read ephesians 2 from the beggining you will see that the believers Paul addresses were once obedient to the devil. He says also that they used to live in sin just like the rest of the world. 1 John 3:8 says anyone who commits sins belongs to the devil. Please show me chapter verse for your claim

@@reynaldodavid2913Jo Jesus explains what he meant in that parable further down. The seed of the enemy is the tares the good seed is planted by the Lord the harvest is the end of the age. The bad seed are unbelievers and the good seed is believers. But what has this parable have to do with the claim that none can repent? It doesn't suggest this. It doesn't say they are incapable from birth. This is a parable about the end of time? I can still be wrong over secondary issues so you can't just throw me out of the kingdom for something I may not fully understand yet. I agree with the close handed doctrines that christ came in the flesh. That He is the son of God. That He died in my place and bore my sins upon the cross. That he died and rose the 3rd day. That He now sits at the right hand of the Father. Waiting for the Father to make His enemies His foot stool. Dude I literally believe in the Gospel my life us not the same as it was before the Lord saved me from my old wicked ways and made me new. Please be careful not to put this notion on other believers. Especially if their faith is wavering. You don't want to be the reason for more doubt.

All who are in Christ Jesus seems like the logical interpretation. Paul is talking to believers from what I can see because the love of Christ is controlling them. 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 NASB [14] For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; [15] and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Chris Thayer, thanks for sharing. From what I can tell, Paul is distinguishing himself from his audience with the “us” and “you” language in verses 13 and 14. He seems to be sharing a universal truth with the Corinthians in v14 that explains why he is beside himself in v13. His trust in Christ’s finished work on behalf of the entire human race is apparently the explanation for God’s control over his life. I pray we both come to have the same experience!

corey david, I had a bit of a response. If his atonement is universal/covers all then all should come but they don’t. And Jesus says my sheep hear my voice and he doesn’t lose one. All that the father gives him and he receives. Here’s some JMac notes that provide better reasoning than I can, I have yet to exegete these passages. They may be helpful. 5:13 beside ourselves. This Gr. phrase usually means to be insane, or out of one’s mind, but here Paul used the expression to describe himself as one dogmatically devoted to truth. In this way, he answered those critics who claimed he was nothing more than an insane fanatic (cf. Jn 8:48; Ac 26:22-24). of sound mind. The original word meant to be moderate, sober minded, and in complete control. Paul also behaved this way among the Corinthians as he defended his integrity and communicated truth to them. 5:14 the love of Christ. Christ’s love for Paul and all believers at the cross (cf. Ro 5:6-8). Christ’s loving, substitutionary death motivated Paul’s service for Him (cf. Gal 2:20; Eph 3:19). controls. This refers to pressure that causes action. Paul emphasized the strength of his desire to offer his life to the Lord. one died for all. This expresses the truth of Christ’s substitutionary death. The preposition “for” indicates He died “in behalf of,” or “in the place of” all (cf. Is 53:4-12; Gal 3:13; Heb 9:11-14). This truth is at the heart of the doctrine of salvation. God’s wrath against sin required death; Jesus took that wrath and died in the sinner’s place. Thus He took away God’s wrath and satisfied God’s justice as a perfect sacrifice (see notes on v. 21; Ro 5:6-11, 18, 19; 1Ti 2:5, 6; cf. Eph 5:2; 1Th 5:10; Titus 2:14; 1Pe 2:24). therefore all died. Everyone who died in Christ receives the benefits of His substitutionary death (see notes on Ro 3:24-26; 6:8). With this short phrase, Paul defined the extent of the atonement and limited its application. This statement logically completes the meaning of the preceding phrase, in effect saying, “Christ died for all who died in Him,” or “One died for all, therefore all died” (see notes on vv. 19-21; cf. Jn 10:11-16; Ac 20:28). Paul was overwhelmed with gratitude that Christ loved him and was so gracious as to make him a part of the “all” who died in Him. 5:15 As he defended his integrity to the Corinthians, Paul wanted them to know that his old, self-centered life was finished and that he had an all-out desire to live righteously. For all genuine believers, their death in Christ is not only a death to sin, but a resurrection to a new life of righteousness (see notes on Ro 6:3, 4, 8, 10; cf. Gal 2:19, 20; Col 3:3).

Chris Thayer Hey Brother, thanks for sharing. I agree with you and JMac on the effectual nature of this verse. One died for all and therefore all truly died. The cross had an objective effect on all those Christ died for. However, I disagree on limiting this verse to only some members of the human race. V19 makes it clear that this reconciliation is for the world. Though the effect is objective (verses 14 and 19), the reception of it must still be experienced (vs 20). Hope that helps!

​@@christhayer5034- Lord Jesus died for the World. John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 1 John 2:2 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. John 6:51 notice world not just elect God desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, Psalm 145:9 The Lord is good to all, And His tender mercies are over all His works. Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord GOD, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live? Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live! Romans 11:32 so that God may show mercy to all - God doesn't want anyone to perish but for all to come to repentance 2 Peter 3:9 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.

Amen! Your example is one of the main (if not the main) trademarks of a false doctrine. Calvinism is notorious for using the Word of God to discredit the Word of God.

@@mojo7495 lol. How about providing your supposed genius on this thread... The arrogance...

@@mojo7495 HERE IT ISL Mo Jo 4 minutes ago We were not impressed by your quote from Dave Allen at 2.24. "Scripture seems to clearly assert Christ died for everyone". We say, NO! Not when you look deeper into the Text. *The same goes for your quote of 2 Peter 2:1 @ 2.00. You ask us to note that the false teachers mentioned therein were actually bought by the blood of Christ. Yes, it does say they end up denying the Lord who bought them, but like the Allen quote, you just leave it at that. You utterly fail to look deeper and make the biblical distinction between being BOUGHT and REDEEMED, which sweeps your conclusion under the nearest rug. First of all, it is impossible to believe that ANY false teacher was ever born again in the first place, so there must be something deeper to understand concerning the statement that they were bought. I say that "deeper meaning" is your failure to distinguish between "purchase" and "redemption".* While it may be said in a general sense that all people have been purchased (i.e., Christ's death WAS sufficient for them if they availed themselves to it), it may NOT be said that all are redeemed. Specifically, we read that Jesus is pictured as a man who sold all he had to buy a field (Matt 13:44). In verse 38, the field is unambiguously stated to be the world. Thus, by his death on the cross, he BOUGHT the world and all who are in it (again, in the sense that his death would be sufficient for the redemption of all mankind) but he did not REDEEM the whole world, which would only be effective for those whom (we say) God chooses to believe. Much more could be said, but this is just to let you know we are not intimidated by your presentations. We tire of people like you who claim that while God is all powerful and can do anything, the one thing he CANNOT and WILL NOT do is interfere in the free will of man under any circumstances whatsoever. NONSENSE! He does that very thing from Genesis to Revelation! Hence, it's clearly evident you're simply fighting against the one who surely has the ability to take our hearts and turn them whenever and whichever way he wants (Prov 21:1). Just ask the apostle Paul on the road to Damascus!

@@mojo7495 Mo Jo M Jo Mo Jo. The point Leighto is making is that *Christ died for ALL men* not whether these false teachers were ever saved or not. Take a breath buddy and actually listen to the point people make! This video is shooting down the 'L' in TULIP... I hope you can relax and channel your energy into a positive discussion rather than being trollish...

@@mojo7495 you are accusing Flowers of being dishonest? seriously? accusing the brethren is a very serious charge... either bring on the proof that he is intentionally lying or repent! You are way out of line.

@@omnitheus5442 Mo Jo troll

You could also say it as follows. Calvinism: God loves the non-elect....... in a “you’re still going to roast in eternal hell fire for your sin and rejection of me, even though you had no ability to do otherwise” kinda way.

I praise God for I know listen to Dr Leighton flowers . I've been surrounded by Calvinist friends since 2018, I've become cold and I can't really grasp the love of God, I always see him as wrathful and it isn't good for me.

Or, God does not love the non-elect.

that's a big "if" you got there. Can you explain it?

¡Dios te bendiga!

Christ is the propitiation for everyone’s sins. 1 John 2:2 If they do not accept the propitiation by repenting, and believing then they will burn.

That is actually a direct quote of Psalm 22. This Psalm starts with "my God my God why have you forsaken me". It is a Psalm referring to a righteous man being persecuted but who in the end is hopeful of God's help and vindication. Jesus applied this Psalm to himself and also shows that the hope of the dying man in the Psalm was not in vain when applied to Jesus for He was in the end resurrected from the dead.

The word ALL is in the Bible 517 times. The word sovereign used to never be in the Bible but now is the NIV 300 times. God is not "the author of confusion". Only one doctrine should be followed, The doctrine of Christ , no other, just that simple. Keep all confusion out of your Bible study by going totally "Sola Scriptura " not doctrines of man telling you what God really meant, that is Satan trying to confuse you and mislead you. Let scripture interpret scripture.

That's a hard saying for sure. So do we treat them like brothers or just like we would a Jehovah Witness because it's definitely a twisting of Scripture.

I was given the gospel from a Calvanist. Really depends on the person.

​@@leviwilliams9601 yeah I've been tempted to say things like "calvinists worship the devil" and while I do find their doctrines satanic I think some may not fully understand the implications of their beliefs.

Jason Piker with all due respect there are many problems in Provisionalism. So, you criticize Calvinism (and you have great points) but don’t seem to have a coherent system either. You have two options: semipelagianism or molinism. The first is just too anti-biblical, and Molinism is more solid but at the end you end up very close to Determinism, but in this case is a “determinism by circumstances”. Also, Molinism in a way denies free will as well because according to that system God’s puts you in a situation in which he knows what are you going to choose, so you don’t really have much choice there, do you?. I think Thomism has a more coherent system that both Calvinism and Provisionalism. Probably when you get to know it you will become a Thomist as well ;)

@@HosannaInExcelsis What is thomism?

@@HosannaInExcelsis there r no problems with provisionalism. And the tulip belief system isnt "near" determinism it is literally determinism. What is the biggest most obvious and glaring problem with provisionalism??

Rafael Araujo is the whole systematic on Predestination developed by the great philosopher and bible scholar Thomas Aquinas. His main thesis is that God can move the will and lead the creature through a series of graces towards salvation whereas Molina (which created an alternative theory) reject the idea that God can move the will. That’s why provisionalism typically chooses Molinism, because they want to defend free will. Thomism differs from Calvinism in that it rejects irresistible grace (and therefore double presestination). In Thomism free will and efficacious grace can coexist

@@HosannaInExcelsis You lost me here with this narrow absolute: "You have two options: semipelagianism or molinism." To start with SemiPelagianism is only a thing for Calvinists. Molonism is only one small faction within the Provisionalist camp. Do better and do your research. That would be like me saying there are only two positions within Determinism: Compatibilism and Hyper-Calvinism. Hardly fair isn't it???

Small addition: He so full of grace and mercy and it’s evident not only with the saints but the unbeliever as well

I also made a video on Calvinism it can help you too

@@matrixlone good, you can share it with your reformed buddies.

@@Mark-oo3om im not reformed.

Rebecca... you are doing EXACTLY the right thing! Put yourself out there...keep drawing all your conclusions directly from Scriptures.. it won't be easy to eventually draw away from a crowd of peers but read Phil 3:7-21 carefully, when we strive for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord, and press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, we lose some friends along the way... In fact we might lose everything. It is picking up our cross and leaving the comfort of the wisdom of men... that is EXACTLY what we are supposed to do, that is how you rightly divide the word of truth!! You need not be ashamed sister. And it will not be easy bc our adversary has blinded the minds of a few people we love, but you know what? I read your comment and I am typing w tears in my eyes for seeing the promises of God being fulfilled in His Spirit working in you to do His will... keep up the faith sister! John 8:31-32 keep going disciple! I praise God for you and am praying Phil 1:9-11 for you for sure! :)

Thank you for the encouragement. I really appreciate it.

@@gregb6469 where is it written that unbelief is a sin? Are you lumping disobedience in with unbelief?

I think whether or not "unbelief" is 'sin' is irrelevant semantics as far as salvation goes. Unbelief can not be atoned for (John 3:18) and it is the exact thing which condemns man. All men are sinners and, therefore, are separated from Holy God and need to be reconciled to God; all men stand condemned already because of unbelief. The atonement reconciles us but then that still leaves us with our unbelief. What can be done? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved", "Repent and believe", "confess with your mouth... believe in your heart", etc. Atonement and salvation are not the same thing. Atonement provided the way for salvation, it did not provide salvation.

@Greg B I'm not sure what you're trying to say or where (it seems) you disagree with what I said. Verse 9, first of all, refers to unbelievers (as indicated by "will convict the world...of sin, because of their unbelief"). Can anyone who doesn't believe be saved? Can anyone be saved without repentance? No - you must repent AND believe. Conviction leads to godly sorrow which leads to repentance which leads to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10).

In a reply to an earlier comment on this video by a Calvinist citing that same verse, among others, Evan U gave a good answer to it (IMHO). "1Sam 3:11 ¶ And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle. 12 👉🏻In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house👈🏻: when I begin, I will also make an end. 13 For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not. 14 And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever. God did as He said He would do. No sacrifice would prevent it from happening. He would make them pay for their sins though Eli had been warned many times before about his sons and he did nothing about it. So this was all fulfilled within a few years. It’s not saying that their children would be guilty of sin and are doomed to hell. They went past the point of repentance for what they had done and now they’re going to pay. Judgement was upon them. That’s all this passage is saying."

Olam does not mean forever, else tsunamis would be impossible.

@@mojo7495 *_LIMITED ATONEMENT IS DENYING THE LORD JESUS THAT BOUGHT US_* (2Pet2:1) You aren't even constrained by the love of Christ in judgment on the basic doctrine of the faith: that if one died for all, then were all dead: and that *_HE died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again._* (2 Cor 5:14-15) Dude!!! Repent! You are reprobate concerning the faith to pretend that YOU are some part of some special group of people that God chose before the beginning of the world as if Jesus was lying when He said He came to save sinners... YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL, YOU ARE A SINNER... election is a spiritual blessing and ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS are *_IN IN IN IN_* Christ Jesus... not before you believed BUT after... And he (Jesus) is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1John 2:2 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1John4:14 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach. 1 Tim 4:9-11

Semi-Augustinian

phillwithskill 1 I love Augustine. He’s great. Too bad protestants don’t fully grasp his understanding of grace

HDM so there’s (1) Pelagianism (2) Semi-Pelagianism (3) Semi-Augustinianism and (4) Augustinianism. Calvinists are Augustinian and Arminians are Semi-Augustinian

phillwithskill 1 by leaving aside Thomism you are missing an important category. Same with Molinism and Congruism.

HDM no these were views discussed in the ancient council of Orange regarding the Pelagian controversy. The four positions mentioned have to do with the ability and depravity of man vs. the necessity of grace either preceding faith or succeeding it. These four positions are NOT suppose to be in the same category as Soteriological systems like Molinism/Congruism and Thomism.

Paul who else was part of Eli’s house? Was Eli? Was his wife? How about his grandchildren? So according to you Jesus didn’t die for Eli’s sins either, even though he was Gods high priest. Maybe you’re misinterpreting the passage, and need to look at it in the context of the prophecy that the man of God brought to him, and maybe then you’ll realize that verse 14 has nothing to do with Eli’s eternal status.

Reid Roberson But it’s for the sins of the world, did the earth itself sin, or did people of the world sin?

@@haark655 John 3:16 doesn't say that. 1 John 2:2 does DEPENDING on the translation. The Greek just says "also for all the world." You have to do a bit of interpretation to translate that. You'll see that "those of" in the NASB and "the sins of" in the KJV are italicized.

@@haark655 In Gen 3: 17-19, God curses the earth as a result of sin. Rom 8: 20-22 talks about how the earth is subjected to corruption and groans while waiting to be set free. Part of the promise of salvation isn't just the salvation of individuals, but a renewed earth free from the curse of sin, where God dwells with man. It is seen in the last two chapters of Rev.

@@35sralde :Then by Jstevensdk7 view and your own view both Traditionalists and Reformationists need to repent to be saved?. Does believing what Calvin wrote can get you saved?. Does rejecting Calvinism condemns you?.

@@35sralde • Non-Calvinists are not synergists, but Calvinists keep trying to paint them as such. Once Calvinists understand that Faith is not a Work, they will stop mislabelling other believers as synergists.

Not a Calvinist or a Provisionalist. But I have many Calvinist friends who are very honest and are very convinced that God is able to move the will in them, and that he has done that and that is how they ended up choosing Christ. I think double predestination is an evil doctrine, but it doesn’t mean that God cannot move the will for us to attain salvation. In fact there are some good verses in scripture that probe this point. But my suggestion is for you to treat your Calvinist brothers with respect and mercy.

@@35sralde :Jehovah God through His Word/The Gospel (the Holy Bible) brings repentance and is up to man if he chose to repent or not to repent by rejecting Christ and be condemned. Salvation is 100% of God and by Grace and through Faith but the Gospel must be preached for people to know what are they supposed to repent from and who are they to trust to be saved!!.

Brian Weaver what’s the problem with synergism? Paul even uses the word synergeo to denote our cooperation with God: 2 Corinthians 6:1 (NASB) And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain. Why do you fear sinergy if that is in scripture?

That’s true in some parts of the Western world, but it’s important to remember that most Christians in glory will never have heard of Calvin (or other such writers or theologians whom a sub-set of Christians follow at a particular point in history).

Lol okay Johnathan Don’t care

Andrew Magana How bout dem Cowboys 🤣🤣

@@martytu20 they are lucky that their division is so bad that they still are in first place 🤣

@@mojo7495 WOW. you are out of control... you are satanic troll.

@Sage of Synergism righteousness is by FAITH not deed, lest anyone should boast!... we are SANCTIFIED by God's word (John 17:17) and born again of incorruptible WORD of God (1Pet1:23)... we sin everyday hence Jesus commanding us to pray "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"... if you are pretending that you no longer fall short of the perfect will of God, you are wrong... we have an advocate in Jesus who ever lives to make intercession for us... we are not perfect yet.

@Sage of Synergism yes!.. I do not disagree with the points you are making. Being born again in 1Pet2:3 of the incorruptible word is not the same as being born of the spirit as in John 3.. (I do not think that someone born of the Spirit of God can end up in hell and I'm not sure if "losing" salvation is the best wording for the themes in Scriptures you are referring to but I definitely know what you are talking about and I do not disagree) There is a balance though, I also see eternal security to those of us who put our faith in Christ and walk after the Spirit and mortify the deeds flesh,-- that is not works, it is faith. I believe Psalm 119, John 8:31-32, 1Pet 1:23 are like a blueprint of our contract with God, that if we receive a love of the truth and pursue God's righteousness and His kingdom in faith in Jesus, He will indwell us with the Holy Spirit and guide us in righteousness, and give us the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ unto to the glory of God. "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." (John15:5) Basically we are sanctified by God's word and He will be faithful to us, if we are faithful to Him.... As you point out it involves forgiving as we are forgiven (definitely the story of the wicked servant in Matt 18:23-35 demonstrates we can lose our forgiveness!). Our Lord encourages us that the one who endures and perseveres til the end shall be saved (but I hear that as an encouragement to keep going, not a carrot on a stick..) ... and probably the best summary of this is in Paul's admonishing the Philippians: to strive for winning "the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. 17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

@Sage of Synergism I agree..Matt 6:15 if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. NO doubt that if you are not forgiven, you are not saved. as far as Matt 5:29.. Jesus is telling us it is worth taking drastic measures to avoid sin...but, be careful because if you think that you lose your salvation just because you sin, that means that every believer who sins has lost their salvation and is getting cast into hell... that is NOT what the Scripture says.. Sanctification is the *_process_* of becoming holy. It is a process that happens by us learning the Truth, God's word is truth and conforming ourselves to it... "and this we will do if God permit" We do not know God's word perfectly so we do sins sometimes that we do not even know we are sinning, I promise you, there are many believers out there committing sins they do not even know are sin, hence Psalm 19:12... and Hebrew 6 addresses this in verse 1-3 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment, and this will we do, if God permit." Before you move on to perfection though, you have to learn the doctrines of Christ... so trust God will sanctify you by His word and sin will NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER you. Faith is like a mustard seed. It takes time to grow. Sinning is not something that stops like a waving of a wand. It takes a while sometimes for someone to get to that point and God will fortify them in meantime. NO one goes to 100% sinlessness in the flesh.. and worry people that they can "lose salvation" because they sin is foolish. They lose salvation because they lose their faith. FAITH is imputed as righteousness not the deeds of the law. Just be careful pushing the idea that someone who has sinned has lost their salvation. I have NEVER EVER EVER met a believer who has stopped sinning 100%... that will not happen until we are in a non-fallen world and in our glorified bodies.. BUT it is possible to cause new believers to stumble by giving them so expectation that they should have stopped sinning if they were saved.... that is NOT the benchmark of salvation.

@Sage of Synergism ALL PEOPLE SIN... including believing saved people...so what are trying to argue? That no one is saved? or that you are not a sinner?

Christopher Stroud faith is belief, hope, trust acted out. It is an ability God created humanity with. All mankind has faith, whether in self, science, money, family, a doctrinal system, etc. Where we direct faith is up to us. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation and is sufficient for the humble to direct their faith in Christ. Those who seek to serve God, know God, worship God, God will ensure that they are presented with the gospel so as to receive it. Those who truly seek to serve God will receive Christ.

@@jaygee2187 You say "Where we direct faith is up to us". Fine but we are all different. What makes one of "us" trust God and another not do so? Is it random chance of birth and circumstance or God?

Christopher Stroud nope...it’s humility that drives us to seek God.

Doesn't the Bible say that faith is a gift of God?

@@jaygee2187 If it is humility that drives us to seek God you have still not said where that comes from, it appears to me.

Church fathers before 400AD or after?

Only if the condition for that choice is based on the person. Calvinists say salvation is not conditioned on man at all (the U in TULIP), universalist say Christ died for everyone and their salvation is not conditioned on man at all (everyone is saved). But when you have Christ dying for everyone but not everyone is saved - only those displaying some quality like faith are saved - then you run into questions about whether God is partial to particular people based on some quality originating in them.

@@oracleoftroy everybody has the ability of faith,but here you have to put your faith in Christ for salvation and His finished works,death,burial and resurrection(1 Cor 14:1-4).Although Christ dying on the cross is part of God's redemption for men,it does not save,it is through His life that those who believe are saved. Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, MUCH MORE, being reconciled, we shall be SAVED by HIS LIFE.

@@chrisamandadeysel5117 I agree that everyone has the ability of faith, but everyone lacks the will to put our faith in God, and so we rebel and sin against him. That is why God must save us and approach us while we are still enemies, and why the gift of salvation includes faith. Christ authored and finishes it.

@@oracleoftroy are you leaning towards calvinism or are you a calvinist?How does God save us and then approach us?

@@chrisamandadeysel5117 I am a Calvinist, except I don't hold to the things the anti-Calvinists claim Calvinist believe. I hold to the confessions Calvinists have subscribed to for centuries. So, when Leighton talks total inability, he tends to make it about a physical inability as if God didn't program us to have faith in an exhaustive deterministic way, but when the Westminster Confession discuss man, it says God ordained that man has a free will (3.1, 9) and that we lost the ability of _will_ to do spiritual good in the fall (9.3). When God saves a person, he fixes this problem with our will that we created in the fall by freeing our will from sin, enabling us to do spiritual good and so freely come to him (9.4). This aligns with biblical statements. The Bible puts this as being a slave to sin and to Satan, being dead in our sins, or having a hard heart; and when we are saved, we are purchased from our master by Christ and now slaves of Christ and righteousness, made alive (quickened if you like archaic words) in Christ, and given a heart of flesh. As for your question, salvation isn't just one event happening at one point in time, but the most direct answer to how he saves us would be "in Christ" as Eph 1 puts it. Before the foundations of the earth, he chooses who he will save, in time he actualizes that salvation and brings them into the faith and justifies them, and fills them with his spirit. The spirit works to scantify them through teaching and discipline for the rest of their life. And Central to this is Christ at one particular point in time coming to earth and conquering death on the cross so that he could bring life to God's people. As it all hangs on Christ's death and ressurection, all of salvation is said to be in Christ.

Steblu74 if you care about context, verses 4 &5 tell you who the ‘election’ are, verse 6 & 7a tell you who the ‘rest’ who ‘were blinded’ are, and verse 11 tells you why salvation is therefore come unto the gentiles. If you’re a calvinist context will remain irrelevant to you.

@@jaygee2187 the time of the gentiles in Rom 11 is also just for a period, then the gospel will return to the jews, as the time of the gentiles will come to an end when the fullness of the gentiles have come in... v.25+

Chris Thayer Salvation is up to God. He decided to save those who humbly repent in faith. Repentance in faith is up to us in response to God’s appeals and provision.

@Soteriology101 I understand. But if Christ atonement is universal then in theory his death on the cross is potentially for everybody or nobody and that obviously cant be true. Then what are we to say about the elect who God foreknew, predestined etc.. and what about John 15:16 where Jesus says how the disciples didn't choose him but that he chose them. Atonement is received by faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9) thus making it limited for those whom the Lord came to redeem ( his sheep). I do not think this makes God any less loving but rather highlights Him as holy, righteous, and merciful. Our knowledge is limited and He works all things for the greater good of His kingdom. Shouldn't we rejoice in Gods Glory rather than our own. Any fruit we bear isn't our own but its the work of the Holy Spirit within so why should the act of coming to faith be any different? Always learning of course and looking for insight, Thanks for your time and response.

@@christhayer5034 faith is not a work, accepting The Gift, is not a work. Israel practiced a works based Law and this is what the problem was. By faith, not by works. "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone," Romans 9:30‭-‬32 NASB It just cannot be any clearer then that. Until you understand the issues facing Israel, you cannot understand the context of these scriptures. " I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?" Romans 11:1‭-‬2 NASB The people that God forknew, the elect, His Chosen people is Israel.

Mark Mark Hey brother I appreciate you taking time and sharing your insight. Clearly salvation is by Gods grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Biblical faith will persevere and the born again believer will bear fruit, no question about it. Once sealed with the Holy Spirit at the point of genuine faith we are justified, sanctified, then eventually glorified. I don’t believe in works based salvation (Catholics ex...). Aren’t the community of believers in the Church also considered the elect?...you lost me there. Faith is a gift that is activated by a divine calling, if the Lord Almighty didn’t call me then I would still be headed down the path to destruction. We are incapable of accepting the gift in our fallen nature, we have to be called or quickened to do so and if we could lose our salvation we would but scripture clearly teaches us otherwise, praise the Lord for that. If it’s up to mankind to accept the free gift and the ball is in our court we could technically not respond and Christ would have died for nothing. But that’s not the case, he died for his sheep, those who hear his voice, whom God foreknew. Ephesians 1:4-5 NASB [4] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love [5] He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

@@christhayer5034 have you ever tracked the pronouns used in Ephesians 1? Have you also considered that it states IN Him, numerous times? God draws all men, hence the Gospel and the great commission. You can read it in Acts 7:51, also in Acts 18:6, the parable of the wedding feast is also proof. His calling is VERY resistable, the Word clearly shows it here. Everyone is accountable. Jesus said " If I be lifted up, will draw all men to myself". Don't try to tell me that He was just referring to people groups. Anybody who accepts the free gift is saved IN HIM and THROUGH HIM. If somebody is irrisistably chosen, then is it really THEIR belief? Does the Word say "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, BUT ONLY IF GOD CHOOSES YOU TO FIRST?" What is the definition of believe? Can anybody MAKE you believe something? I can talk to you till I'm blue in the face, that Calvinism is a false doctrine, but I can't force you to believe that. You make that decision yourself, based on what you perceive to be true or not. Do you believe that man causes climate change?

God must have foreordained White's inconsistency

Calvinists always claim that anyone who rejects Calvinism doesn't really understand it. It's pretty clear that even Calvinists don't understand it.

@The Gooberment-Sucks Calvinism moto:''I am not always right,but I am never wrong''

Yeah, it sounds like James White holds to the so called 'Calvinism' that has been confessed for centuries in the London Baptist Confession, and not the unique understanding of Calvinism that only you have. James White isn't a Calvinist according to your definition, and never has been.

@@oracleoftroy Most Calvinists will actually pretend like the sinner had a choice in the matter, even though it was ultimately determined by God. I don't think White is being inconsistent with Calvinism. He's just being inconsistent.