Gods, Demigods and Liches in Dungeons & Dragons 

Acererak: *Has opportunity to ascend to godhood* Acererak: "How about I just build some dungeons with god fetuses instead."

My favorite way to become a god - get Kuo toa to worship you XD

I mean...... Matthew Mercer has managed to become a God/Lich Hybrid by DMing Critical Role.

We’ve been playing in my current campaign for about 6 years and in the past year we’ve all ascended to Godhood. I thought that would be the end of it but my boss ass DM kept it going with a cosmic war of the Gods where existence itself is on the line. Our party of 4 has split into two and we’re on opposite sides. After 6 years in real life, the end of the campaign is near. It’s going to end with a fight between the 4 PCs, who spent over 100 years fighting together as mortals. I’m so excited for it, also a little sad it’s finally coming to an end.

In my last 2nd edition campaign, one of my players convinced a small group of goblins that he was their god (thanks to a nat 1 on his part and a nat 20 on my part, remember 2nd edition ability mechanics) and then watched them and protected them. The thing about goblins, they spring up like mad. Take a group of 12 and in a year they're around 200. So the universe started looking at this guy being literally worshipped by an ever growing tribe of goblins and started giving him power.

Actually, D&D released a book in the past that specifically laid out how to become a Demigod, but the process was so difficult, it was essentially impossible to do without the DM just handing you the achievement. The steps involved 1 - Being twice the max level recommended for the campaign. 2 - Convincing an already existing deity to sponsor you. 3 - Getting no less than 5 people to devoutly worship you as a divine being. And 4 - performing a feat worthy of godhood. If you successfully managed to achieve all of this, there would be a small chance that your patron would summon you to the higher / lower planes and make you an immortal servant of theirs. Then after an undefined period of servitude, you get promoted to Demigod!

Step 1: Reach Level Twenty Step 2: Gain Boon of Immortality by Stealing the Essence of A God. Step 3: ??? Step 4: Profit Step 5: Regret

"Using Athena's shield, Hermes' winged sandals and Hades' helmet of invisibility, Perseus was able to evade Medusa's gaze and decapitate her." Wikipedia's Perseus article describing epic level playstyle.

Keep seeing all of these D&D guys talking about Dragonlance in their interviews. Wish they would go ahead and put out some official Dragonlance 5e material.

Time to take notes, and finally reach immortality.

"If you can fail with open eyes, you learn more about yourself and about the world" Damn thats a good line.

I once saw a player try to convince a smurf-like civilization that he was a god... using minor illusion.

Is this why the "Epic boons" exist? You just become op after a while

Is the recent string of videos a hint at epic level play.

Had a Catfolk character that followed Fharlanghn, traveled the world telling stories and spreading his religion. Near the end of the campaign he had his own massive following of worshipers leading to his demigod status while making his god an even higher level god in the pantheon.

Using Lichdom to become a demi-god is the basic idea that if you wait around in the multiverse long enough you'll get hit by a miracle

Shards from Cosmere are my favourite God-system from fiction. Vessels, Intent, combined with the 3 Realm cosmology and all the mystery behind the Shattering create such interesting characters and magic. The power having its own agenda, influencing the thinking mind that wields it is shown at its best in Ati/Ruin, where Ati was described as “kind and gentle”, but having held Ruin for thousands of years turns him into a genocidal maniac who justifies his actions as the natural progression of entropy.

I might use that example of a Chaotic Evil narcissist trying to cheat their way to lichdom/immortality in a future game. Perfect guilt-free villain for players to really dump on.

My most favorite character I ever played was a (4E) Star Pact Warlock who ended up becoming a demigod. How? Well, despite the fact that she hated the gods in general due to being a cult survivor (or maybe because of it), she caught the eye of Selune, who granted her the warlock abilities she used throughout the campaign. This made it rather ironic when she found out that she was granted a seed of divinity, but once the shock wore off, she accepted it. She eventually ascended to demigodhood, becoming a demigoddess that oversees astronomers, Star Pact Warlocks, and those who protect others from cults. In the Astral Plane, her role was as justicar of the gods; she made sure the gods suffered some punishment for letting their followers become destructive cults. And then people started following the newly-discovered Lady Darkstar, and she got a Cleric who fought in her name.

In some ways, knowledge is power. A character who's been around for millennia while being immortal is going to have considerable mastery in whatever they like doing, especially if you assume no age related infirmity because they're immortal. A manipulative person will be astonishingly good at reading people and bending them to their whims, a swordsman will be a remarkably good swordsman, a glassblower will be able to make the finest glass the world has ever seen, etc. Doesn't necessarily translate to combat potential - I'm not sure how glassblowing experience could translate to combat skills, outside of possibly blowgun range benefits.

In Mystara you can undertake one of the Four Paths of Immortality to become a Mystarian Immortal (a.k.a. a god).

The distinction between sci fi and fantasy is such an interesting point to make. The pursuit of truth vs. fact is so so true and also why I gravitate towards fantasy settings too.

Fantasy, to me, is about the Romantic idea that there are limits to our mortal logic and knowledge. That there is "more between heaven and earth than is dreamt of in our philosophy". Magic is based on Emotion and Symbolism, where a spell being cast can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be; the important bit is _wanting_ it to work, and having the artistry to manifest that desire. (Of course, I also see Magic-as-Art and Magic-as-Science to not be a hard dichotomy, but a spectrum; Wizards treat Magic more as a Science, Druids or Bards more as an Art). With the "divine" casters, that their magic is based on Wisdom is telling. It means they do what they do because of their intuitive understanding of transcendent truths, which cannot necessarily be enumerated or put into words. Clerics accomplish this through prayer or philosophy; those that worship gods use their teachings to better themselves spiritually, in order to inspire the kind of wisdom that allows for spellcasting. Druids do a similar act, just with the natural world; Rangers, being basically demi-Druids, follow the same path. Even Monks can achieve powers (including spellcasting) by way of meditation and an understanding of themselves, both physically and spiritually. As for seeking divinity or demi-divinity, I tend to think that it either happens to the person because of outside forces, or because the mortal followed a path to transcend their mortal limits. There's only so far a Fighter can get by mundane training, just as a Wizard can only get so far by study and knowledge. There's a threshold that must be passed, and not just any path can be used. These paths are mysterious, and perhaps idiosyncratic to the particular mortal. Even if the path wasn't deliberately obscured by those who follow it, one method of achieving Enlightenment may not work for someone else. It's something that a person must seek for themselves, gathering bits of lore or insight, following leads, and pushing limits.

The Unearthed Arcana "Oath of Heroism" (now Oath of Glory, I suppose), seems like it would be the sort of character to aspire to godhood. "I have been divinely selected to become a living myth; it is my destiny, and all before me is a challenge to that end...etc."

I like the somewhat terrifying idea that Lichdom is a trap, and that becomes of the apathy and stagnation that comes with undeath, kinda like a vampire, lichs can’t grow as individuals. No matter how brilliant they are or how much knowledge they amass they won’t be able to achieve their goals (barring if they were already able to do so in life). I mean how long has Larloch been working on his portal network, you’d think he’d be able to get it working after so long a time

my friend and i created a setting where all the players were once powerfull gods that had thier powers stolen from them,and were on a quest to reclaim thier godhood. in this setting,instead of standard classes the characers "Domains" where there classes,and they could freely pick class features,spells and abilities from classes ascociated with thier domains. for instance the God of war could freely pick stuff from any "fighter based" class.

I like that idea of just being so good at your job you transcend.

I have a wizard who became as damn near close to godhood as she wanted to be without giving up her humanity (functionality immortal, smart to the point of being borderline omniscient, and having thirteen bodies operated simultaneously by her one mind) She’s now a high level NPC in my friends game who either deals with cosmic threats or help farmers and other would-be heroes save the village before setting off on a quest. Also they teach a math class in the settings major city.

If you play an Aasimar Divine soul sorcerer and reach Lvl 20 that makes you a Demigod

My favorite character I ever played ended up being a growth stunted deity named Creed. When I began playing him, he was a "cambion", but we used the winged tiefling race to keep things balanced. He was a paladin for Asmodeus, who he was the kid of, and had recently escaped from a cult to Asmo that were doing less than savory things to him just cause they knew he couldn't die. Fast forwards a few months, last session of the campaign, we fight Asmo, who has come to slap his kid silly. We beat him, eventually, and Creed learns he never was half human. Hes essentially a science experiment to see if reality collapses when a demon/devil hybrid comes into existence. Turns out no, and his parentage (Asmodeus and Jubilex in a dark blender) is so powerful that he's destined to eventually rise to the power he is owed and completely take over both the Abyss and the Nine Hells. Hell of a thing for my DM to close on.

The party monk became a god when she killed an ancient blue dragon with only her fist

I really love this series. Wish one day i could work in such an amazing industry!

In the D&D universe pretty much every God that exists was a mortal at one point. Asmodeus was once a low devil, The Raven queen (death goddess) was a legendary mortal woman, Orcus was a mortal who ascended. One of the factions in Sigil is the godsmen, who believe that we all have the potential to become gods and they are right! Wizards write in the fabric of reality more and more as they gain in power. Gods are fueled by their worship and use this power like magic to shape reality like a wizard.

i like to think that there's a lot more rotation in the evil demigods, as an evil person *would* kill a demigod to throw off the balance and make room for another, while good people don't try to take the spot of their demigods.

Get Kuo Toa to worship you is definitely on the list. Other way a player did it last campaign was to wish Mythrian’s Ring be teleported to their Magnificent Mansion because almost all his power was put into it and he gained a portfolio of his because tbh he was dumb as hell to even make one that powerful. It basically ended the campaign (we were close to the end) but it was done. Problem was as soon as he put it on he immediately could sense the thoughts and gained the powers all at once and it took a month or a little more to get acclimated to that and stop screaming...

“Why be a king 👑 , when you could be a god 😇?”

I hope these talks turn into a series !!

I run both my groups through a tweaked version of Krynn much much later on. It’s just too good of a setting and so great to hear. They just discovered Xak Tsaroth!

6:00 -- some people forget (at least, those who were playing around 40 years ago... >checks expiration date on the bottom of my foot< lol) that that's how clerics were back in Basic/Redbox+ back in the day. Clerics, as written, didn't worship deities as such but simply were so devoted to an ethos/set of beliefs that they channeled power via that faith (similar to how Paladins now work in 5E). (And, of course, an equally "hard" thing for some old-school DMs to grok is that in 5E metaphysics it isn't that gods imbue the spells into the cleric/character but rather shows them *how* to develop/change them; should a cleric fall out with their deity, they still retain the spells that have in their minds/souls -- as well as recover their slots normally -- *but* don't have the ability to change their spells sans divine guidance/intervention, nor advance them any further. At least, until/unless they reconcile with their deity or become a cleric of another entity... ;) )

"All the yahoos who don't have the magical skill but are going to try to sacrifice a thousand people." -Karlat Jhareg

One of my old characters is currently locked in a pyramid tomb, sucking the energy out of a giant army of inactive undead dragons and other nasty stuff. I reckon in a few hundred years he might have a chance at godhood.

I've had it happen once, it was the elevated champion. Due to how she was played, her compassion and her staying true to her path I had a monk who was made into a god. And then had a later campaign where I was allowed to have a champion of her lol so she now has a Paladin and a Seeker Warlock under her. Trying for a cleric one day maybe.

1:20 someone who can never be truly powerful but can't die either? sounds like the embodiment of sass to me. "Don't sass me boy!" "Or _what?"_

Omg! You just solved one of my greatest problems with my current campaign. Truth vs fact! I am going to use that!

If you've ever read the great series Thieves' World, a series of short stories written about a certain city & the same characters, but by different authors - they have a character named Tempus who is the chosen of a God & it gives him Wolverine's healing factor but that's about it -

The gold box Path of the Immortals was the best supplement ever released on this topic, and is the template for old school DM's (like myself) who wish to explore this narrative territory

A lot of mentions of Mordenkainen lately... could the famed wizard be making an appearance soon?

Brilliant. Thank you.

That was such a great definition to the difference between Sci-fi and Fantasy

In my telling, gods begin at LVL100, only because the character becomes bored by mortality and the normal planes. They must give up their body and gain the influence over the realms. Demi-gods can occur no earlier than LVL50 and are generally managed by the non-corporeal gods of LVL100 and above (even though they generally don't know it -- early demigods tend to be very proud of themselves). Poseurs begin as early as LVL20, but there's really no lower bound for poseurs, is there. Once they lose their corporeality, their ability scores take on new meaning: STR for example (which isn't useful without a body) becomes +DAM modifiers for those who serve you, etc.

Happy to see Mearls back doing videos...

There is a description of how to make a lich in previous editions. The standard ritual is an innately evil act. Blood of innocents killed with phase spider poison is on the list. Also there is a solid chance of failure.

one of my games had a “quasi mortal”, a young god who is limited to its human form, and another had a hex blade warlock who ripped a divine spark from an elder god

I love stories involving gods, both the remote and more "human" ones. Faith works a bit differently in the Realms, I think, because the gods are very real and active. But of course, mortals don't know all the mysteries of the gods, either.

I personally like BOTH. Knowing the How/why and having it fantasy. So I also tend to also create half science fiction half fantasy settings and incorporate real science into fantasy and have tech and magic and magi-tech. I like and prefer knowing the answers more often than not. BUT keeping it on an emotion artistic level more than not. I think I need to understand and have it make 'sense' to me BUT the players and characters don't always know, the DM is better off knowing. Great thought provoking video, thanks.

In our DM's universe, a mortal could become a demigod by any diety who decides they meet their personal criteria. A mortal could only become a full fledged God by devouring a diety, marrying one, fusing with one, or receive such status by the Limping God. ( He had many titles due to being a part of every race's pantheons and being more powerful than the DM).

Love the content, good video

Fantasy is about truth and its relativity, yes, but also fate...which can ALSO be relative, as there is the trope of reshaping fate to more desirable ends as well.

I had one character of mine known as Ashen Greycastle, The Undead / Kind of the Damned Legion. He became a lich around level 15 as he had all of the requirements met for Lichdom. He was a former royal guard for the queen but he was banished as he was a necromancer which didn’t break his moral code of never harming anyone unless given reason. This character of mine trapped gods, beings beyond gods, and anything that threaten his reality or time-line. As he’s become a god of gods. He’s grown wiser than Odin, and stronger than Zeus. He’s proven regardless of Wish spells, he will never stop ending. I told my DM when we were wrapping up and everyone made a ending for their characters, I stated this, “My character will outlive the life to reset the cycle and watch.” So then me as the new DM. Ashen known as “A” to many who know of him, he became a wanderer in the background and the party at first didn’t know of a cloaked figures, then one of them pieced it together and started to do research as all texts of before were gone, all text of Ash were gone. So this cleric of life commanded the new gods, her goddess of wisdom to answer her on who was the wanderer in black. The goddess explained everything. So my party were about to end the campaign until the Wanderer appeared and offered them godhood in exchange they remain loyal servants. They all refused and fought a dragon god king and won. So while my character become more than powerful. He never lost sight of who he was. He was a mortal who became immortal and who became God of All. But I just hope one day my group unbans me from being a necromancer.

Why do they keep referring to the Dead Three as demigods? Why would Bane choose to give up the power he had? I get that Bhaal and Myrkull may not be as powerful upon their return, but nerfing Bane makes no freaking sense...

The path to being a demi-god lies through sucking up to your DM

My brother became a god but tricking his god. He got his god to reward him a ring that binds his characters soul to it and can not break, he later placed a enchantment that makes only the hand that placed it can remove it. The final boss of the campaign was, thanks to the DM, was trying to rival the gods as a rushed end campaign fight, while the boss was dying, he took his ring and put it on the ring finger of the boss. The DM told him to roll for, rolls 20, asked to roll AGAIN, rolls 20. His soul transfers to the boss, now his powers and the boss remained, brother then says "I then burned my old body", the DM narrated it, he then said "now the ring can never be removed" the hand that placed was burnt to ashes. The DM ended the campaign, saying the only things that could rival his character are the In-Game Gods, someone in the party wanted to go for it, but unfortunately, next week had to start new character sheets for the new campaign

In my campaign, when a mortal believes themself powerful enough, they can challenge a god to Deus Proelium. (God Battle) They then battle 1v1 against that god. If they win, they take the place of that god and their name. The world itself also has physical consequences when fhis happens. For example, if Mors, the god.of death, is defeated, the world may see a period where death and disease is much less common while the new Mors gains his strength.

After a few years with my warlock he didn’t become a god/demigod but he took on a role/position that he certainly feels a god should be having instead. He found a place called the Multiversal Library filled with an endless amount of books detailing past/current/future adventures from different parties. He took on the role as the Librarian and every now and then he invites parties that are dealing with infighting. He gives each of them a different party member’s book and makes them experience each other’s backstories to bring the party closer as friends.

Great episode.

In a campaign im playing right now if you kill a God(gods could be killed depending and how and what gods there are) you become a godkiller which means you took the "title/power" (the power could be weaker depending what gos it is)of the god you killed(it could be a passive ability) for instance my gunslinger background was that he ended up killing Ares (a lower level god in this campaign)by dumb luck and taking his title of god of war and has abtily to during combat you can call upon your title and get a health boost and damage boost for a minute while in combat(once per every long Rest) but he also has a passive ability to make people around him get angry and fight for no reason

So If an adventurer meets three dragons, 10 liches, and a gnoll on their journey...

"Success often blinds us to growth" ...well at least I have that going for me :p

Ooooo, this food for thought is just what I needed. I'm going to have two powerful immortals vying for power, and the party is supposed to help one elevate to lesser godhood. One is demonic, and the other is an anomaly in the system of the multiverse, kind of like the One from the Matrix.

My current D&D character is a Goddess incarnate. The Moon Goddess, Rehtaeh, decided she was tired of ruling over a lifeless planet. So she had her Sister-Goddess make her a body that would hold her so she could see what it’s like to be a creature on Earth.

I have a feeling this guy really likes Mordenkainen

My Idea is that a person becomes a god when they completely embody a concept or idea more than anyone ever has before them

So ate we to expect new gods and demigods in 5e to introduce ascension to godhood? Not a D&D player, but I am interested. Wouldn't be surprised if King Lorgru from Many Arrows manages to become a demigod and eventually a god whose whole intent is to orcs free will and acts as a god of good orcs and orc civilization. Yet I wonder if Ilneval orc god of war strategy might offer Lorgru demigodhood in order to advance his iwn goals. Yet new demigods of other races woukd be cool too.

Good video Interesting thoughts

LOVING all the content!

I like this idea of clerical magic

My lv 20 wizard, Horus Morat Phantem, after turning himself into the most powerful lich ever existed, hunted down the mightiest wizards of each arcane tradition(Evocation, Necromancy, Abjuration, Transmutation, Illusion, Enchantment and Conjuration) and turned their souls into soul gems, then turned these soul gems into philacteries for himself, which added his two-and-a-half lives worth of arcane knowledge even more knowledge from the best wizards of each arcane tradition. With all this knowledge, he was essentially a god, the first god in 400 Eons, (In my universe, all the gods are dead)

hey what about being a patron of lost and rejected souls? All the people that die in the phlogiston, the ones that get made into that wall instead of getting an afterlife? god of the forgotten. you could totally just mantle up with enough power, ain't nobody claiming that sphere.

My world has Gods but the Gods are more like super powerful mages and sorcerers who are just so far beyond the ordinary. They can die and are certainly *human* in more ways than one. Also most of them in my campaign are assholes too.

Dragonlance was my choldhood my dad raised me on those books i started reading them in 4th grade hahaha

3:53 The God of Overactive Thumbs

I imagine personally that yeah, if a PC hangs around in the world for a long time, gaining power, getting into higher levels, they could transcend their station in the cosmos. But that's just my opinion, and every GM should come to decisions in that vein on their own.

Any 5e chance for Dragonlance? Need this released

Seems that many have forgotten about Mystara. Wrath of the Immortals

What books were they talking about around 2:30 mark. They mentioned that those two trilogies were great?

AD&D had pretty specific rules for becoming a deity. That didn't make it easy. And, of course, there is the God-Trap. Thanks, Xagyg ...

on pathfinder a friend became so stong he one shot tiamat

About the secrets to Lichdom and them being kept in order to keep awful people from making a mess of them... why do the Chaotic Evil gods care, actually? Couldn't Beshaba, Cyric or Talona tell any Wizard who asks "yeah, here's how its done, now try it for the lulz"? One thing D&D could crib from Pathfinder: they may have Lichdom under wraps as well, but they do have a clear four steps plan on how to become an immortal Demon in Lords of Chaos: Book of the Damned Vol. 2. It's the same "sacrifice innocents and eat babies" fare as everyone seems to think Lichdom involves, so it should be right up most murder hobos' alley ;)

If I ever join in on a DnD session my only goal is too become a demigod fighter of the abyss, rofl.

I'd wish 5e had a sub for fighters to be a dreadnought, because I'd love to make a legendary dreadnought demigod that's a guardian of the world.

I don't know. Somebody who can't die but isn't powerful can still be stuck or imprisoned somewhere. I'd be leery of ever going underground or even in a large building if I were them and I really thought forward what a landslide would mean... Quicksand and other natural hazards would also be a problem...

Dnd Beyond, great video! Enjoy your Tuesday! 💯🙏🙌

I'd like to think that if a fantasy character gets to like level 40 or 50, and essentially becomes the VERY best of their class (and maybe with a small bit of extra magic added), then they can be classified as a straight-up god.

honestly I just like the idea of making a REAL demigod, as in, historical mythic demigods, you know, just proficient/advantaged physically, Heracles just had an insane strength score AND was proficient in a lot of things, making him tough, his demigod blood kind of just made him get there sooner, same with other heroes, they were just....innately good at things there was only 1 demigod with magic that was innate to him, and that was a special case: Dionysus, when he was young, he was mortal, mortal mother and father was Zeus, but, he actually was a reincarnation/partial revival of the Dead chthonic god Zagreus, son of Persephone and Hades, so he had the soul/heart of a dead god, the body and blood of this half divine nature, in a way making him 2/3 god pretty much all level 20 characters are basically Heracles level anyways, Heracles though is more like level 25 (using Epic Levels even though those aren't a thing in 5e I don't think)

I have a paladin aasimar that is the "child" of the world's sun god. He was born mortal and had to prove his worth to accend into godhood.

I had a bard that ascended to Godhood through magical items and clever play, stole a magic item from a cult that would cast a permanent enthrull spell over a large(near city size) area of effect, one time use item, creatures needed to make a save throw. Used it on a Fey Forest my party found, had a Arch Fey failed the check and nearly half the Fey Forest. After the Civil War, i used the survivors to gather contracts owned by me, others for warriors/assassins. The party was not to happy about it, but it was the usual "Trickster Pricks" Fey we're all used to, so it didn't take long for them to get use to a controlled army that, if left to their own devices, could've hurt innocent people. That was what I said to get them to stop complaining about it, the truth was i wanted a army that was good at getting anywhere and getting anyone at a moment's notice, but using evil magic items on things nobody will miss, or be happier to see "gone" or "dealt with" helps

I want to be a god

You know I always have a question could a another kobold become a god or just a demigod I mean you do have the one kobold God but he is trapped in an endless maze but what if another kobold became so powerful when he be considered as a demigod and let's say he decided to choose a path of good could he somehow lead the kobold to a more good nature? This is a question I wonder.

If your character doesn't acknowledge the gods, can they become a demigod? I'm being serious. For example: say your a Barbarian (good or evil) and you've been stacking bodies for years. Slaying beasts throughout the realms. Basically, killing demigod level threats at Lvl 20. Is there an actual pathway? If you're a mortal doing this, have no fear of demigods, or even gods, what would be the pathway? I guess they could slay a demigod and take their place. But, once again, being a mortal, I've already beaten a demigod, am I more powerful now still being a mortal?

I miss the Immortals Box Set! Becoming god like had rules.