I feel like Cell saga onwards, Goku cooks him a few times. At first he just shrugged it off, but then he had his comebacks or smartass replies to Vegeta.
@@fnfgamer9476He in fact calls him a clown more than you'd think among other things such as idiot or moron and I believe buffoon. He's constantly shitting on Goku even though he does actually care about him although he'd never admit it
Yea. Goku knows how to motivate vegeta around this time. Definitely best friends when u know a subtle insult motivates someone. Even if he sells the bag vs a weaker version of cell.
@@kaytomp27 yeah but we didn’t see him after additional time in the chamber. I still think he’s no where close to beating cell but I think he closed the gap on goku a little bit. I’d put him on par with Gohan ssj1.
Vegeta saying that goku's skill ceiling is the dimensions of the time chamber is actually a unwittingly compliment since the time chamber is infinite in area
Hate to be that guy to tell you wrong, but if I don't, who will? In chapter 377 of DragonBall, Goku says, "It's supposed to be as big as Earth." while referring to the time chamber. I don't know where you got your information of the time chamber being infinite, but it is incorrect.
@@Saiyangod41205Majin's advocate here, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't seem to remember the earth itself having a ceiling. You might have a definite horizontal space if the time chamber is basically it's own planet, but there's still no vertical limit on the area of that dimension if it's simply just a giant sphere, making it technically correct in that there's infinite area due to its lack of enclosure and the ever-expanding nature of the universe.
@rugalbernstein5913 Goku said it was the size of Earth. The time chamber can only be infinite in size if the Earth itself is infinite in size. In our world, we use the Kármán line, which is what we use to define if someone is in space or still on Earth, for DragonBall the Hyperbolic Time chamber is the size of Earth, so you can travel around the globe infinitely but that doesn't make the Earth itself infinite only your distance traveled can be infinite. In short yes their are limits because the Earth has limits.
@@Saiyangod41205 Okay but there being no ceiling means the hyperbolic time chamber itself might have the surface area of earth, but the dimension itself is INFINITE when you go up, not on the floor. By the way the hyperbolic time chamber isnt just the door and floor, unlike earth, its the dimension itself, which is infinite in size.
I mean of course goku is stronger he trained in the time chamber first. Its rinse and repeat. Goku gets power up, vegeta gets it afterwards. Vegeta fights villains first and loses. Goku fights and wins. We all know how toriyama felt about vegeta and we all know how time and time again, vegeta gets robbed. At least in the last two arcs in the manga both goku and vegeta catch significant Ls. And whis straight up threatens goku. As it stands, vegeta still has 2 Ws against goku. 3 if you count the comedic fight at the end up super hero.
People forget how much cooler Goku was during the Z era. they think he was always a goof ball like he is in Super, but he genuinely had a lot of solid father son moments and really did step up when he needed to. Sure he was a bit cocky when fighting Cell, but it was all because he wanted Gohan to be Earth's next defender.
The turtle hermit method! Most people haven't watched the og dragon ball i think, so they dont know that Goku learned from roshi to rest and eat as equally as he put effort into his training. Goku understands there is no point in fatiguing yourself without giving yourself recovery period. He's genuinely a smart fighter
Oh gee, he needs, what, 9 days to rest before the Cell games. Its almost like he could spend time resting in the chamber too between training sessions since he can spend years in there Unless being stuck in a void with just gohan for years is too much for his mind to handle after doing it for a year, anybody would go crazy, but this is goku and if he has a training partner he is content
@@prvtthd401thats off the platform not where they eat or rest you can tell that when Trunks and Goten go in and when Gohan entered with Goku and he steps off the platform he drops to his knees from the gravity and temp change he also says its hard to breath so id assume the air is thinner
@@bluecanine3374part of the reason was rest. The other part is because he knew going in again wasn’t going to improve him that much because he was stuck at the Super Saiyan barrier.
I blame the near complete void inside of the time chamber as being the reason why he doesn't want to go back yet. They only use it for emergencies so thjs tracks as you are literally staring into the abyss while training.
He kind of has a point thought. There's only so much productive training you can get in the HBTT. It's great for mastering new forms and perfecting techniques you already know, but it's a pretty common trope that you can only reach your next level in the heat of actual battle. HBTT is for practicing, not learning new material.
People forget that a person is only supposed to be able to use the chamber twice in their life. Then they just made it an easy plot device to make them stronger.
@@AlexDeLarge1 Exactly. That's why he needed SSB to be able to use Kaioken, because the God Ki helps offset the "negative" emotional state of being in Super Saiyan
Yup this is the reason Goku giving Cell the senzu was disrespectful. He was telling Cell "I don't want to hear any excuses after my son but his little Piccolo bootie thing up your ass"
@AD-oy8nm Also remember, Goku pulled a brilliant move to hit Cell with a point-blank Kamehameha Wave, and couldn't fully destroy him. Gohan was the only one who could eliminate Cell, and Goku knew it.
@@AD-oy8nmIt wasnt really a risk. Gohan was so strong in SSJ2 that he defeated a stronger vertion of cell while injured. Goku's fuckup was thinking gohan wanted to fight
If you believe that then you don't know shit about dragon ball or it's characters. I think you need to read the manga or watch dbz Kai and db super again because that's where the true goku is he hasn't gotten dumber he is same as he was in dbz manga and Kai.
@@09_bavaliya_vipul_b.76 but it was a nice fight, Goku and Vegeta wanted to battle him because they are proud that he's back to utilising his potential that's even greater than theirs
@@AndyNocturneSo Frieza, Zamasu/Black, and Jiren were not serious? lol. Goku is the only clown character in Super besides some of the ridiculous characters from the other universes. He became an absolute parody of himself and is only cool again when he taps into UI.
@@lycanthropic1122 Goku was pretty damn serious in the Goku Black/Zamasu arc, Jiren was serious, but he wasn't a villain, Beerus had his moments, and dawg... First appearance of Frieza in super... do we really wanna talk about that? He was in rainbows and candy hell surrounded by singing stuffed animals while being trapped in a cocoon. Frieza? Frieza who
@@lycanthropic1122 but that's the difference anyways. The difference between fans who only really watched Z and fans who grew up with the OG Dragon Ball. The ones who grew up with Goku know that he's never been a serious character, but he can stop playing when it's time.
The chamber isn’t particularly comfortable. If I remember correctly your body feels heavier, it’s humid, and the endless pure white in every direction probably fucks with your head. They provide food at least.
This might be my favorite version of Goku. Wise enough to know that too much training is bad for you, but still unable to really understand his son yet. He just feels so, I don’t know, mature here, while also having a flaw that isn’t just “let’s heal the enemy so I can fight someone stronger.” Even he told Gohan to just pull the trigger on Cell. It was nice to see him turn from the eager student to the wise master. Really came full circle here.
And he was only in his late 20s (I think)😌. I do like this Goku. Super Goku is nice too but the excessive training and not really wanting to relax is not the guy I looked up to when I was young.
Really shows when Vegeta hears why Goku sacrificed himself and refused to be wished back to life and practically gave up being a Warrior because there was no way he could ever show as much strength as Goku did in that moment. To sacrifice himself finally because he knew all the threats only showed up there because of him. (even if in retrospect we kind of saw it as selfish) that scene is quite a choker...especially with how Gohan laments "it just reminds me of dad..."
Not untill i got older did I understand. That the conditions in the HTC where so harsh, it wasnt really conducive for productive training. You need time to rest, so your muscles to repair so you can get stronger, thats not only true for humans, but sayians too. Goku knows, if you go back in, without time yo rest in between, you won't really help your body. Plus if you come out right before you fight cell, you'll actually be at a disadvantage, cause you are still recovering from getting out. Thats why after Goku and Gohan got out, they spent the next few days resting before the Big fight with Cell. Vegeta may be naturally stronger than Goku, but when it comes to training to get stronger, Goku is the exoert.
Vegeta trained for more raw power. Trunks did the same thing due to not having experience Goku knew the key was mastering super saiyan. Because a transformation taking stamina from you is a massive weakness like the kaioken had but the difference is here is that the kaioken fundamentally works that way but the transformation is supposed to be a part of his body so it should be possible to train it. He focused more on controling what he already had to open up the posibility of reaching a higher level.
There's a post that's been floating around the DB community that say "Goku becomes so disrespectful when he knows he's stronger than you" and this is just another example. lol
Bro get the hate out we both know vegeta handles just as much, if not more than goku. If we talking singular points, vegeta trumps the shit out goku in sheer tenacity.
This is why Goku is always one step ahead of Vegeta on power levels. He knows how to achieve strength, and he knows when to relax the body. Vegeta always excessively pushes himself and fails to reach Goku, which is why the scene of him finally admitting Goku is stronger hits so hard.
