I had a bad rule 0 experience at a local event last year. A person my friends and i didnt know asked to join in for the last game of the night (store was closing). So we were all fine with it. Friends said they were playing mid level kineos group hug, a simic go wide, and i was playing an arcades deck. The new guy says its just an artifact deck that hes unsure what will happen. Turns out it was all stasis and timesifter effects. Probably the lamest game any of us have ever played. Card is a bit of a bummer to play against, but a straight up disshonest opponent is worse
@@ich3730 It does happen, at least at my LGS. Not every week but I reckon a table at least every fortnight has 1 or 2 players that openly lie on rule 0 and after the game my mate and I change tables or leave. Some people want to win over everyone else having fun, makes no sense to me.
@@ashhuman2412 Im gonna be totally honest, that sounds unbelieveable to me. Thats a waste of time for all parties. Not to mention your locals gonna know your face. Im from germany so it might be a cultural difference, but this is just insane to me xD
@@ich3730 It does sound insane because it is! It is infuriating to say the least. I am in Australia, so it could be cultural differences but I think honestly some people want to win over everyone enjoying themselves.
@@ich3730 A friend that got me into magic turned out to be cheating all the time (even in casual tabletop commander) so I cut ties with him. I also don’t understand wanting to get an unfair advantage at a supposedly social event for fun but it does certainly happen.
Winter orb and static orb are probably my two picks. In general, I will appreciate a good strategy or a card that needs setup but breaks my kneecaps directly, but I will be salty at literally being unable to play (which with those cards- and now that I think about it, also other- can happen in the first three turns!) while my opponent has a deck that is of course made to go around those cards
@Meyene Etuks I had some turn 3 or 4 lock down the board with stasis and winter orb and then he said he didn't have a win con. He literally counted on people just conceding. I told him he was a prick and I refuse to play with him. Dude was a rich dude that liked to brag about having all the expensive cards too.
The biggest thing people need to learn when playing magic is that it’s okay to get got. That’s the game. Everyone plays to execute their game plan and prevent the other players from victory. This is an issue I’ve often run into with playgroups
I think more of my issues are with players more than the cards they play. No one wants to play with a ticking time bomb over them all the time or have a guy play near cedh level decks into precons to just pubstomp . It's different if a better player wins frequently by assessing threats better and playing when an opening presents itself. It's entirely different to straight up demolish someone for playing their favorite precon.
I completely agree. Especially if it's due to one specific card that you're afraid of. If it's your kryptonite, you should be prepared to deal with it or accept your fate.
@@donb7519 yes someone stopping the game dead in their tracks for the purpose of shenanigans is a whole other issue. The worst is when someone plays something like possibility storm without anything on board. I’ve had this happen before and it’s just a constant fight to fix the mess they put everyone in to resume the game
@@jhemp bro most players dont think that big. They wont notice if they got outplayed. People are salty if their stuff gets killed. People get salty if they lose. Thats the monkey brain in action
Have you guys ever made the opposite of salty cards episode? Like cards that make the game more enjoyable or fun for the table? Not just a group hug deck. I'd like that kind of episode too!
I actually really like that Opposition Agent hits lands. Gives counterplay to the absurd fixing that 5 color decks have with next to zero downside, and to green decks that ramp with lands instead of artifacts or creatures. I just don't like that the Agent's controller gets the card advantage, that's pretty egregious.
I used to play with a guy who filled every deck with as many wraths as he could. The games took 4-5 hours of pure salt. And during those games he would dump on me for playing stupid strats like playing creatures, just adding to the salt. I once played a demonic tutor which he hated on because he said it made the game predictable, and every game just turned into more of the same. I told him I don't play all wraths just to draw into my win conditions. He took that so personally... Every game I ever had with this person was intolerable. He cheats too, but that's another story
I don't think armagedon never should be played. It sometimes is the only response to land based strategy. Landfall decks and land focused decks are so powerful, because of the social contract paragraph 16: "every land is sacred".
DJ and Ashlyn are a great hosting combo, would definitely enjoy more episodes with this dynamic. As for salt, for me it's not a single card but just control as a whole. I just want to play cards too, and when my fourth or fifth thing gets countered / removed my salt comes out.
I think you missed a key element here with in the 'classic salt' list. It is when the cards keep getting played which makes things salty. So if you play once a week and loose to expropiate 3 weeks out of 4...it be like, does the deck do anything else??
The only times I have been playing against Cyclonic Rift are games where that player won the game. I think of it as less of a board wipe and more of a "hand me the win" card.
The most anoying thing about Rhystic and Smothering is that in commander you can face a table with 3 instances of any of them at the same time by multiple players. A constant orchestal polyrhytmical "Do you pay the one or two?" from your opponents.
Break the Ice would destroy a lot of utility lands easily enough. I know my artifact deck very rarely needs colored mana so some not great utility lands are in it because they sort of work. But against Break the Ice I would get wrecked with that deck.
An interesting thing is that it also destroys some extremely expensive (money wise) lands like Shops, Urza's Saga and City Of Traitors while being a bulk uncommon.
I would say that one of the biggest issue that arises from Cyclonic Rift is that it can set the board at a very 1-sided state, but the caster rarely has a follow-up. What ends up happening is it just slows the game down without making any significant impact on the actual outcome.
The last time someone cast Expropriate I casted Fury Storm on it that copied 4 times, then everyone just decided to start a new game and I haven't seen a Expropriate since. If you don't want to see those big ol instants and sorceries anymore, just put fork spells in your 99 whenever applicable. This also covers big X spells like Torment, Esxanguinate and the like. Not saying this will stop them 100% but you will see a drastic drop in them being cast.
I’m kinda shocked no one said Gaddock Teeg. I have added this card to my Karador deck because I needed a way to shut down spell decks, but it always seems to bring the salt. Also have Hokori, Dust Drinker as well for the same reason, it buys time.
Cyclonic Rift being 1-sided and instant are huge. If someone plays a mid-game or late-game wheel, Rift is basically time to shuffle up and start a new game.
For me it is basically a "I Win" cards as it is always in the hands of a player with counterspells. It turns the game into a 3v1 and the one wins, a majority of the time. So better hope someone can counter it, and not get countered in turn by Pact of Negation or somesuch.
I need to know what spell you countered that dj still had 9 mana to bounce 2 of your lands but you only had 2 blue sources, this just feels like an unbalanced game that needed to end anyways
If you have infinite mana to spam capsize you basically already won by bouncing everything on the field so the drawback on the pact isn't even necessary and saves you from anguish 😅
Saltiest cards for me are Drannith Magistrate (especially when an opponent plays it on turn 2) and Out of Time (my commander is gone until I luck draw into enchantment removal).
I mostly get salty when I... can't play the game... sometimes its being locked out, sometimes it is someone playing Solitaire for 15 minute turns... usually it is mana screw or mana flood though, which I think happens disproportionally often to me... though I am sure there are many that feel that way about themselves, luck is a fickle thing sometimes x_x Greatest single card that caused me salt is actually one of the few on the ban list, the angel that locks out a color from the game... it can literally just completely screw a single player out of the game unless one of the other players are feeling generous.
To many ppl get salty over anything and everything. It's a game. Just play or quit. If a game is to long because a player is controlling and turbo fogging. Dont play with them (or that deck). But allow ppl to play. Also, if the game is locked or that bad... then go for them or scoop.
You don't have to ask for Rhystic Study or Smothering Tide. It's enough to announce them on cast. People should say they're paying for them though. Ensnaring Bridge or Gaddock Teeg in commander suck.
I used to put Lim-Dul's Vault into my decks that had UB in it, but eventually took it out of all of them due to the amount of time it took for it to resolve.
Nature's Wrath (whenever opponent plays a blue or black permanent or a Swamp or Island they sac a blue or black permanent or swamp or island). Very difficult to get rid of in those colors. There's a player in my group who plays that, Void Winnower, Collector Ouphe, Compost, and Tsunami in his mono green. I definitely don't play blue or black against him and always have enough removal to deal with him. He's not always the biggest threat, but he is often the biggest annoyance.
I know someone who absolutely enjoys all the strats that people find salty, he delights in the dismay and salt he causes. ...he also doesn't know why people don't want to play him anymore.
I get salty when I get locked out of the game without the game ending. It can be stax, badly played land destruction or certain loops with any number of cards.
While playing Capsize and Void Winnower doesn't make you a bad person... it doesn't make you a good person either. However unicorn tribal - that just instantly raises you to saint level.
Void winnowed is especially brutal in polymorph decks. Being able to polymorph on turn 5 of a Kykar deck is a level of salt I’ve loved seeing when playing with friends😈
A deck built to only stop progress makes me salty. I'm not against interaction by any means and think it's really important to make sure you can stop the game from getting out of hand, but I also think that the game is most fun when everyone gets a chance to spin their wheels a bit. If you're playing counterspell tribal and locking a specific player out of the game, whether or not I'm the target I think it's a really underhanded thing to do in the game. I'm there to see cool decks do cool things, and literally half the table is making zero progress on the board if one person does nothing but target another player.
I have no problem with the eldrazi themselves. They are flavourfull creatures that do end the game. I take issue with... how overtaking they are. Every deck seemingly plays them as a finisher. They can be cheated into play (some of them at least) and because they are colourless is always a "Why not play them?" if Im fighting tatyova im expecting ramp and value and then boom, eldrazi. kykar transforming into them. I guess we need more creature based win conditions that have flavour.
Well I make people salty when I play my Beamtown Bullies and Leveler people, had a guy rage quit and storm out the other night because of it and he was playing Tergrid lol
I play Perplexing Chimera in almost all my blue decks. What is irritating even more is when someone copies it ... I played once a game with 5 chimeras on the board ... WRATH OF GOD PLEASE ANYONE ?! :)
Opposition agent has way to much going on, and I'm kind of player that will gladly stick out a game that someone drops an obliterate in. It should have been non-land, or anything and not be able to cast it yourself.
I wouldn't want to play with them if they think Armageddon is fine. As if the guy playing Armageddon doesn't have crucible of worlds or some other graveyard strategy. Its a 4 mana ' I don't want to play anymore' card.
Cyclonic Rift is more than a board wipe because it only affects your opponents. People would be salty about cards like Wrath of God too if they only destroyed everyone else’s creatures.
The only time I feel salt is not hitting any of my land drops or ramp and not being able to play the game. I'm fine with most cards, except maybe that angel that got banned that shuts off a color. Playing a mono colored deck against one of those was just the worst, was so happy when that got banned. I guess I just want to be able to play.
I enjoy the question do you pay 1 or 2 way too much. The more salty the oppoenent is made the question the more I enjoy it until they loose it. I'm sorry my mind when it is removed and playing a game can't take anything like this seriously.
I don't get being salty about 'cards'. Isn't it just an extension of being a sore loser that's trying to be acceptable by restricting it to the card? - For myself, I think "being salty" should be restricted to cards, combos or actions that break the house rules or rule 0 at the table. If you win with an infinite combo after we agreed, no infinite combos, that would feel like legitimate salt. Other than that.... you're creating an opportunity of entitled victimhood as a response to some card or play. I want to distinguish this from correct threat detection at the table. If you drop Tergrid, and become the Archenemy- that's just smart play. Are people saying that cards or plays that MAKE you the Arch-enemy, is the definition of being salty? It feels like the salty list, at least, adds annoyance. A card that slows down the game doesn't necessarily make you the Arch-enemy, but will likely spur some salty language.
My friend, when she was learning magic and someone said sorry about a card (that usually induced salt), said "What? You're just doing what the card says." That's been my frame of mind ever since.
dunno, i feel like if you're bringing a stax deck thats trying to winter orb/stasis to a table thats just looking for a fun 45m game, it would induce salt i personally don't like the argument of "i'm just doing what the card says" because there are some fuckass cards that people simply don't play because majority of the playerbase doesn't like them - i.e perplexing chimera, mind slaver, MLD with no wincon, "shuffle all cards into your library" effects etc i really would not want someone's first game of commander to be against these playstyles
More often than not what makes me "salty" is when I go hey guys I made a new deck it's not super good and I don't know that it'll be very good and they go "oh yeah, I will play my deck it's not very good either" Opens with mana crypt, and isochron sceptre with an Ohrim's chant. Finally get rid of it, overload cyclonic rift, recur the isochron and slap a spell pierce on it or something... Just don't play shit like that against something like a dinosaur deck that someone throws together. Or when your friend refuses to play anything but borderline cedh decks against a new precon you bought. If I have a complete deck. I think more than anything, have a conversation before the game and say what you have and more or less your strategy for victory so you can at least know if it's worth playing it at all.
@@jhemp imo the last part is most important. to be fair, if your friend only plays cedh decks and you for example like to play fun stompy 6 drop decks, you may both find eachother at an impass of just not enjoying playing with eachother. my playgroup has a rule of like play cards that are fringe 30-35-40$ (but we don't care about proxies) and that keeps us all around the same balance
Personally there are some high powered cards I would not even run. Rift, eldrazi and some others are cards even if I got them I would not play unless tourmanent and keep them out of deck in casual.
My most salt inducing card is definitely 'Mycosynth Lattice'. It's a miserable card who's only function is to be part of some terrible 2 card combo lock that ruins the game. Karn, the Great Creator Hellkite Tyrant Darksteel Forge Merciless Eviction ...the list goes on. Good God I hate this card 😅
Cards that take my stuff tilt me immediately. Tergrid is public enemy number one. I refuse to play Cyclonic Rift. It’s fine if others do but I just can’t on principle because it’s so annoying.
Tell me about it. My decks aren't CEDH but everyone at my shop complains about the power level of my decks. I'm basically playing archenemy unless I'm playing against a select pod of players.
@@kennethmarkwith4678 I used to be like that too. Well I still kinda am but used to hate it until I just embraced it. Was like well you guys are gunna go after me anyways might as well give myself a fighting chance and make this fun and try to win. I took it as a compliment and a challenge. But it is pretty annoying
I just build what I want, as you learn very quickly that people will get salty at just about everything. I don't get salty at cards, but I do become disappointed with players' attitudes.
"I dont mind stasis, its symmetrical" Any deck that plays stasis makes sure this card is not symmetrical. At that point nobody besides the caster plays the game anymore. Its just a boring card anywhere besides cEDH tables.
True I never seen stasis played just to slow the game. It shuts them off completely except for the user. It doesn't even give a window for answers once on the field. Unlike winter orb or static orb where there is still opportunity for answers, stasis just forces you to shut up and die to boredom. And it's not like the user will win on a turn or two which makes the game more tormenting. Funny though that it was pointed out it is an enchantment so it is removable, but almost all of the cards talked about in the episode is a permanent that is easier to take out like winnower. With stasis u cant even get the mana to use for your removal except by putting lands for a couple of turns. A total waste of precious time for enjoyment.
How to deal with Vorinclex: If you have instant speed removal and the mana to cast it, tap your lands for the mana while he's still on the stack, THEN let him resolve, THEN use that mana to cast the spell. This way you can get around his doesn't-untap trigger. Alternatively, prioritize using mana rocks to cast your removal.
Cyclonic rift makes me salty not because its a "board wipe" , its not since it does not effect your stuff. My issue with rift will always be the fact it is instant and bounces EVERYTHING BUT LANDS BACK. The fact I need to recast my entire board state against a blue deck with counters, if done at the right time like the end of my turn i'll have to discard at times adding to the salt. overall a horrdibly deisgned card I would be happy to see illegal. Personally i hate decks based around getting my stuff taken. Theft decks suck to play against.
I have two old Plaguewinds, 9 mana Damnations that leave your own stuff, at sorcery speed. It cost nine mana, leaving you open to most counterspells as it is an I Win card. Cyclonic Rift does it at a reduced cost, instant speed, nukes the mana rocks, the enchantress deck, the superfriends deck. The power level is off the charts compared to other board wipes. I have had several games where the blue player Cyclones, and the rest of sit there, knowing that we lost. Because we need at least 2 turns to get back into it. Whilst the blue player does shenanigans, get extra turns, or recover Cyclonic Rift.
It's a win con. Win cons are inherently salty cause you loose. You will not get back in the game when I cyc rift. At least two players will be dead and the last will follow in another turn.
@@SneakyPirate54 No win cons are not inherintly salty. Triumph of the hordes is a win con but its a fair one as you need to have a solid clear shot and it does not remove defense against your threats. Cyclonic rift is a badly designed, terrible and op card that does far to much and is hard to defend against as the only defenses to it arer running blue to counter it or a card that can phase out all your stuff until the end of turn.
@@aclevername7613 are you seriously arguing an infect card is less salty then cyclonic rift? You do realize in both instances the person casting the spell needs to have a board big enough to make these cards actual win cons. And I would feel the exact same if someone played either of those cards against me. And triumph is a much weaker card. How about Akromas will? You feel the same if someone played that against you? I wouldn't. It would feel exactly the same as the cyc rift. I don't have shit to do against it. Just because the cyc rift is a great card doesn't mean it's any more great than all the other win cons people can run. "Oh yeah I loved when my opponent went infinite with a two card combo to win the game, it felt much more fair than top decking a cyc rift." ... It did not feel any better.
Being salty about a bounce spell because it made you lose due to pact of negation is a bit ridiculous. Pact is a way more salty card itself 😂 If you lose to your own pact you deserve it 😜
I’ve stopped running extra turn spells because of the amount of salt you can get for 5-7 mana. The sole survivor is Expropriate because its high cost and starts a table discussion. I’ve found that this negotiation is a lot less salty than a time warp.
Nothing makes me as salty as someone playing cards that cause more book keeping then they can handle. Prime example is warp world and the completely unmanageable amount of triggers that happen. To a lesser degree also coat of arms or cathar's crusade on a complex board.
I feel this. I cut cathar's crusade from Isshin becuase while it was super strong, i needed like a million tokens because they all had different amounts of +1/+1 counters and made my turns soo long if I had a decent board.
Cathar's Crusade was cut from my Edgar Markov deck for that very reason. Well back when I had the deck. Make a vampire token, put a counter on every creature, vampire enters, put a counter on every creature, rinse, and repeat
If a tribal deck runs Coat of Arms and no one can destroy it immediately, my table usually just concedes if their board is substantial. When my Krenko deck with 20 gobbos drops CoA, don't even bother with all of the math, lol.
I love Break the Ice because it punishes greedy mana bases that play a crap ton of utility lands and do cheesy things with Snow, but yeah playing it because you know somebody at your table is going to be playing Eldrazi and/or other colorless shenanigans, that crosses a line.
DJ hit the nail on the head at the end of the episode around 48:40. Letting people play the game of Magic is what it's all about. I've been playing commander since before it was called "Commander" and every salty scenario that I've ever been a part of, either directly or indirectly, was because someone at the table wasn't able to play the game.
I think there are two main reasons cyclonic rift is a salt maker. 1. It is an instant 2. It hits all nonland permanents Neither of these are all that bad on their own, but in combination they can be quite annoying. That being said, I can still play against it without groaning. At the end of the day, I just let people play whatever. I'd be a liar if I said I've never caused my opponents to groan by playing what I find fun, so why stop my friends from playing cards they enjoy?
Ugh there is a card that makes me so salty… what’s the card? It is a land… taps for blue… An island? that’s the one! I see an island and I know shenanigans are soon to be afoot in my group! 🤣😉
@@kevin_Masters I'm just happy because normally a few players are trying to kill me with creatures and I never have much of a board presence so it just takes the heat off me and puts it on the person who cast CRift every time.
@@shawndiaz7528 yeah that could be me too. But I’m almost at the point of cutting it sometimes as it feels as a take a extra turn spell. And my problems are back after that turn.
What makes me salty isn't necessarily any specific card, but when one player in your play group focuses on you for no apparent reason. For example anytime I play my nekuzar deck I am immediately targeted and am unable to play or have fun. I don't play it often but when I do I want to play it...
In paper magic basically nothing makes me really salty. I play to play, to be challenged and to do some mental gymnastics every now and then. Sure I moan when my cool thing is put to waste, but at last when the game is done so am I with being annoyed... mostly it hapens sooner... like the next turn ^^ The only thing that really has potential to get me grumpy over time is heavy control, mill or other things that won't let me do anything with the deck I carefully build to actually play with. One friend in the playgroup for instance only has 1 commander deck, buffed up rogue mill precon. Not that he has a high win rate (outside 1vs1), but that deck can mill so much cards in a turn that it can be really frustrating. Seeing all your answers, wincons and so on hitting the yard and probably exile is just not a nice experience... over and over and over again. Last time we played like 15-20 turns, just had upgraded my mardu human sac deck, eager to finally play it again... and ended up doing literally nothing for 2 hours cause all my lands, rocks, sac outlets, payoffs and removals hit the bin... 5 lands, a commander, some human tokens and a black market were all I got... and the market also did get removed after 1 round.
Vorinclex makes people salty, not because it is hard to stop, but because YOU have to be the one to commit to deal with it. Only YOUR lands don't untap next turn. Personally, I don't mind it.
@@raze667 Lol I know and I kinda get it but it's so ironic that the clear lesser of 2 evils is the one that's considered salty but the other is perfectly fine. "How dare you make some of my lands not untap for 1 turn." compared to "Oh I guess I won't untap for the rest of the game. This is fine."
I will never understand how ANY player of this game can see the card Stasis and go, "yeah, I'm cool with that." It is legitimately a card in a game, designed to not allow you to play the game. How is that enjoyable? It's absolutely laughable when the RC bans things like Golos but then sees Stasis as a healthy card. Stasis decks are boring as shit. You basically gather together to watch one person fuck around by themselves and when you finally have your moment to react to them, they just counter it. Not how this game should be. It creates non-games.
Maybe we're all just playing Lim-Dul's vault wrong. We keep thinking of it as "we have all these decision points", but what if we just think of it as a tutor with an rng factor? Decide *before* you play it what card you were looking for, then check through your deck 5 cards at a time for that card and pay as much life as you need to get it. Stop thinking of it as a free "check your deck" but rather as a "tutor with a potential life cost". Especially if you consider that it should probably average less than 10 health to find exactly what you wanted (+ scrying an extra 4 cards), if you just decide to ignore all the "decision points", it's just a fairly strong tutor with potential upsides if you *really* need it.
It is definitely the kind of card that feels super bad if it's used without a purpose. Looking for a specific type of card or used with Yuriko, it seems like it could be a little less salty.
@@ich3730 Except it is how the card works, just instead of shuffling through your entire deck at once looking for a specific card you go in increments of 5 and then pay for the amount of piles you had to rifle through. If you cut out the decision points for every pile before the one with the card you wanted, you've removed probably 90% of the salt potential of the card.
I agree with this 💯. Players shouldn’t be re evaluating their life choices over and over again while everyone around them is waiting to continue the game.
You really should be hitting the Vault with the intention of getting something 'good enough'. I usually resolve it faster than a conventional tutor because 1 or 2 life is all it takes to find something nice.
When I realized I play cyclonic, expropriate, rhystic, tithe, humility and lim dul vault all in the same deck. Now I can see why I get invited less and less to EDH sessions LOL.
having a big setup turn then being cyc rifted at instant speed before you end your turn and having ti discard down to hand size. I still haven’t recovered.
The way I’ve seen players play Smothering Tithe is that if the opponents don’t pay or forget to pay the player with Tithe makes the treasure. It literally says “If the player doesn’t you create a colorless Treasure”
Coat of Arms is in the same boat as telepathy for me, it just slows everyone's turns down. "Oh I played a creature, what is everything's power and toughness now?"
My take.... the more salty I appear to be the more fun I am having. If your deck makes me salty that means you have a good deck. In the end of the day we are all friends. I'm going to try to make you as salty as possible and I expect the same in return.
So for me it’s win-cons I’ve seen 1000 times in commander like Expropriate, craterhoof, torment of hailfire. It’s boring and the rest of the game didn’t matter. It’s more a anticlimax then salt. Further it’s land ramp as other colors get put back by whipes and green doesn’t. And if you accept the backlash of Armageddon then green recovers the best from it. That’s why I love oppo agent. We need more stax like that with upside. It’s perfect as fetch lands are op too and punished multi color that is stronger by default in commander. The strangest thing for me is the extra turn hate. Especially prevalent by seedborn muse players where that is never a problem. But they take like 8 extra turns before they win “in your end step”…..
Here are a couple cards that are very salty. They are 'How to lose your friends for $0.25' cards. Lifeforce and Deathgrip. Lifeforce (G)(G) Enchantment that says, Pay (G)(G) Counter target black spell. Deathgrip (B)(B) Enchantment that says, Pay (B)(B) Counter target green spell. They can shut down entire decks if they are a mono color. Or shut down large parts of someones deck. I played it in a Yeva deck many years ago for a short time (took it out because it was so salty). Seedborn Muse where I am always untapping my lands, I always have mana open to counter other peoples black spells. These cards have editions (Alpha, Beta..) which can go for $100+, but other editions are $0.25 or less (depending on condition).
This episode could have been titled, “Why people don’t like EVIL, err… I mean, blue.” Cyclonic Rift- It’s too efficient. It hits everything that’s not a land. If WOTC introduces a new permanent type, CR can still bounce it. I can’t be stopped by any ability like indestructible does with damage or destroy effects and I rarely have mana issues. Capsize- Yet another reason that people are undervaluing bounce effects. If removal is defined as “no longer on the battlefield” then bounce is arguably the best. Telepathy- this is a bully card. When someone plays it, there should be an understanding that the owner will be targeted with everything until it’s gone. Think about how Josh approaches Tempt with Discovery. It will cut down on the decision paralysis and have them question whether or not playing the card is worth the added attention. Opposition Agent- don’t run fetch lands. They are overplayed, overvalued, and not required to play Commander. I build primarily Mardu decks, only one (Kelsien) has fetches. I rarely have mana issues. Leave them for 1v1 60-card formats and landfall strategies. My saltiest cards are as follows: 1) Cyclonic Rift - see above 2) Extra turn spells- the value generated by taking an extra turn always exceeds the amount of mana used to cast them or their individual components. Plus everyone has to watch you play solitaire. That might fun for you, but isn’t fun for others. 3) Alternate win conditions- if we are supposed to be trying to defeat our opponents, it’s antithetical to the game to just declare victory. They also are often very difficult to counter or even interact with. I’m fine with effects that cause players to lose the game because that is an alternative to what we are trying to do anyways.
Generally, I get salty when I'm being prevented from playing the game. If you lock me out of my deck, or shut my deck off, or mill me into oblivion, THAT'S when I get salty, because I have no way of responding to you or trying to make a comeback. That said, if I genuinely get got by something I didn't notice or a combo I couldn't prevent or respond to, I'm not gonna be mad about it. That's the difference.
Opposition Agent is meh. If anything, punishing fetchlands among all the other things it does is actually really good direction for the format. Make the game harder for the Aesi and the Windgrace land spammers and for the "my-commander-is-just-here-so-that-I-can-get-all-the-colors" players overreliant on greedy mana bases. We need way more of these effects in commander so that Green finally needs to start putting in the effort to win. Personally don't play it, but fully support the righteous cause of messing with the deck-fiddling. The only lame part about the agent is that it doesn't prevent it's controller from searching, so they still can be a massive hypocrite and still play all the tutors they want.
Annihilator Eldrazi are not fun to play against in anyway. No one runs them in a deck that would cast them at normal value/turn. It's the same with Blightsteel Colossus. They hit the board on turn 4 or 5 and one person is basically out of the game because of a pair of boots that can somehow fit on a Lovecraftian Titan. The Annihilator Titans also completely nullify mill as a win con, unless you can exile a graveyard at instant speed at least twice. And they are colorless so you will see them in any deck that can ramp well. Other than that, any of the new freelo commander spells make me salty, especially the blue, black and red ones. Having your commander out is not a hard enough requirement to justify them being free.
I get salty when people play decks that play like a game of solitaire. Dude, your turn took like 30 minutes already, there are other people at this table. One guy in my playgroup has a krrk/sakashima Deck that does that and I toll him, if he plays that, I will immediately concede. If I wanted to sit around all night doing nothing, I would've stayed home.
Rhystic study/ smothering tithe/ esper setinel are the worst for me. Just stupid powerful, very interruptive, very cheap spells. There's never a reason to not put one in the deck with the respective color.
You don't necessarily know their hand, their plan, or their goals. This mentality will only lead you to act either toxic or overbearing in making strategy suggestions, or possibly demands of players who have no obligation to agree or not play un-optimally. Players could be being toxic themselves by using them wrong, but typically this sentiment is because people expect things they shouldn't and then get tilted when they aren't able to control other free-willed players. If I want to build a somewhat janky mono white knight deck that specifically goes after players playing black mana spells I'm perfectly at liberty to do so.
