Grandfather VS Grief in Diablo 2 Resurrected / D2R 

one of the things that begin to annoy me as well. no matter what you find, it's all trash. everybody wants the same ~20 items and thats it.

While I agree with the sentiment and personally I wish that the two most game-breaking runewords, enigma and grief, didn't exist don't forget that they were added with patch 1.10. That's 2003, 18 years ago. Grandfather was only added two patches earlier (1.08) and has been in its current form since 1.09.

Tbh back in the days the runewords were also the best. But Not everyone had the information we have today

@@sarahkerrigan7996 what is your point? I also played Diablo 2 “back in the day” before rune-words ruined the itemization. So what’s your point?

You know whats even worse? Where are the Godly rares?

yes nice pick up

I would like to see this. Then do a final comparison of windforce with a faith act 1 Merc lol

@@MMuniz That's my favourite build in the game.

@@LughSamildanach did we just become best friends?

@@MMuniz :D

Good idea.

Haha, im pretty much the same always :D

Team death ☠️💀 :)

@@BearX681 i sold my Lo rune i found for a torch and some stuff :D can somebody explain me why grief is so powerful? the dmg is so low?

@@adidkjf there is a mrllamasc video that explains it but if i remember correctly its actually how the damage is calculated. The greif damage adds to the base damage first then get multiplied by all the other modifiers then you have to take into account the attack speed and the fact that is ignores target defense.

i was using a lightsaber on my smiter and when i finally got my grief i couldnt believe how much faster my kills on ubers were. well worth the investment

was thinking the same thing, or youd use a BotD zerker prior to Grief comming out. Honestly my personal fav was duel .08 Bstars with the +vit on level over anything as having around 5k hp as a frenzy/zerker barb was amazing.

I'd personally make an old school WW barb, Arreats, GF, SS, Arkaines ( or maybe a duress ), Gores, LoH gloves, String of Ears with Angelic ammy ring + RFrost. Bet it does chaos Sanc just fine, I'd use it just for farming chaos and trav till you find a couple Lo runes for Grief and Fort. A lot of folks think you have to go right to GG. Heck I'm using Full IK right now to farm up HRs and items to switch him over to a EbotdZ Fort with Shield so I can solo farm WSK and Baal. IK can do WSK and Baal just isn't as effective ( and not to mention there are a few close calls since I don't have Block )

Thats the thing, elemental damage can always be sorbed or max resisted. Physical stops @50%. Melee will always be better, smite at the top.

Also bowazons are better in pvp vs pvm. Always been like that. if you want pvm clear speeds get laying of hands, coh and other ed%

@@Ireland609 All the best melee builds are the best because they don't have to deal with attack rating. Physical can still get resisted, as well. By the standards of being able to complete a solo hell playthrough and try to MF for some decent baseline gear, melee is most certainly not better.

@@lancejohnson3278 no one said anything about mf, and even at that level a ww barb, zealer or fury can very easily mf. Not sure what you are even trying to say

@@Ireland609 bro, you’re wildin if you’re defending melee/physical 😂 Literally everyone wants a melee buff and an AR adjustment going into next season, specifically for PvM. Melee has some niche use cases, smiter for ubers, gold find and zealer do trav which doesn’t require enigma, and MF Barb which is pretty expensive to make. Melee isn’t useless, a well geared melee end game can do some cool stuff, and has the mentioned “meta” use cases, but they need some love to be more viable until they’re rocking Grief and Enigma.

Help me out, how is this great content? This guy doesn't even play frenzy barb correctly. Also, the gear comparison is stupid. If you play with grandfather you obviously play with different items than what you play with grief.

Kinda miss those days, kept us on our toes but they shoulda just toned its level down.

physical melee*

no

Well one thing to note is that 40 ias you rolled is not applied to ww. But still surprised to hear its not that much better than the oath

@@Bricks3374 it is applied if it’s on the weapon. WW Doesn’t count IAS from any gear other than weapons.

You feel ...but in reality grief is way , way better . Grief is mathematically the Best wep for a ww barb . Dual grief if pvm , grief /Beast if pvp . Theres just no debate there , your feelings are missing thiusands of grief damage in conparisson to oath.

@@visbaluz yeah I know… and I understand how the damage calculations work… but if I use Grief/Oath, when I WW into a pack of (for example) cows in Hell difficulty on an 8-player game and I only need to do 2-3 whirlwind triangle attacks to kill the group…. Then swap to any other half decent weapon like Death/oath…. The same 3 whirlwind triangles will kill them. The kill time difference can only be measured in milliseconds… - unless I’m missing something here… I know grief is BIS for both slots…. But I think people exaggerate how much better it really is. The kill time difference between Dual Grief and Grief/oath from my personal experience has been nearly impossible to tell… after over a hundred hours of using it in D2R on a WW barb so far.

@@JohnMr7 i Guess if You take into consideraction blocking monsters (or dodging) the difference Will be greater .

At only +40 damage grief would be the biggest waste of a Lo rune though and it would be one of those runewords that nobody uses or only the very niche builds would use it. Like a build might use it for the -poison res but nothing else really, and why would they? There would be so many better options. Additionally if changed then there would just be a different runeword that most melee would use and then that would get called out just the same as grief is currently and then nerf then the next aaaand nerf and so on and so forth until melee's best option is some subpar runeword like honor. Bottom line there will always be a best in slot, the question is, do you want it to be actually good and worth the grind or just some craptastic waste of space/time. I mean melee even with grief can't compare to the clear speed of casters, nerfing one of the VERY few runewords that somewhat close this gap would only widen the already existing sea of disparity between casters and melee making it into an ocean of difference in clear speed/viability. Endgame best in slot runewords should be better than the rest by a large margin so that at endgame when acquired they make you feel godly. Anyway sorry for the long comment. I just feel that there are too many people complaining about the power of grief and I feel the need to defend it.

As a ladder only word it 'made' a bit more sense (back when it was restricted to that). Also for a 2 hander its more balanced. It's just super op for a 1 hander.

@@pfistor blizzard has confirmed that ladder only runewords will work non ladder now as well as what was ladder only content being available non ladder. I'm fine with this personally although I will say that there should be some content only available via ladder (new content, not just restricting old content to ladder) otherwise you're literally only competing to see who can get to 99 the fastest and most people I know who play don't give a shit about thier ladder ranking or even getting to 99. I personally don't level past 94-95 and that is only on my gambler. My other chars stop leveling at 90. I mean who has time for that ridiculous grind to 99?

@@IstanaghVlandis I should have said "made". As in it was balanced a bit by that fact back in the day. I'm aware that all runewords are available all the time now, just saying that's part of what contributes to them being overpowered was that they were originally intended to give a boost for ladder characters with limited time.

@@pfistor ah I see.

and eth grandfathers, they are indestructible.

@@jessekappler4160 items that are inherently indestructible (like the grandfather sword) cannot roll as ethereal, unfortunately.

yea that's how i have it setup since mana cost is 0 once you level it to a point

@@erikamunoz3673 and a tiny bit later you will generate mana with every swing of your weapon with Double Swing (not kidding), mana costs go below zero which generates mana

In addition the double swing buffs frenzy anyways. It's pretty sweet on controller btw. Shouts, double swing, frenzy, one into iron skin and natural resistance, and frw. Godly.

@@Mr.BigNate you should always invest about 10-15 points in your weapon mastery to get that sweet critchance up to max (or close to it, i think it's 26%).

@@SeiShinCasios thanks!

^ this! Or even better do a GRIEF vs EBOTD vs DEATH “battle royalle” and even use different combinations of each. - mainly because I’ve found the kill speed in Hell on my Grief/Grief setup with a WW barb is almost not even noticeable compared to Grief/Death or Grief/EBOTD, or even Death/EBOTD setups…. Like if I kill/clear chaos sanctuary on /players8 in 3 minutes with dual grief… I can do the same clear with EBOTD/Death in 3:10….

The thing with Grief though is that its a relatively cheap runeword rune wise, though Lo can be pretty pricey because of how GG grief and fortitude are. Other runewords might be slightly better depending on the build/area you are farming but are generally much more expensive (and mostly sidegrades.)

No need testing, grief is wayyy ahead of everything else. To a point where the worst roll grief pb still humiliates a perfect ebotd.

@@polkhigh_33 you are correct. But most talk and comparisons greatly exaggerate how much better Grief is. The damage difference reguarding kill speed between dual grief and Grief/EBOTD is almost not even noticeable unless you were min maxing super hard and trying to shave a few seconds off of some sort of speed clear. When I whirlwind around a group of Cows in an 8 player game using dual grief, it takes around 3-6 quick WW casts (triangle pattern.) and the cows all die in nearly the exact same amount of time with any other decent combo.

@@TheGreektrojan exactly. The big allure for Grief (specifically in phase blade) is that you get the most damage per second with a super fast breakpoint, high average damage with little variation, with ITD, Venom proc… and a weapon you don’t have to repair is just icing on the cake

All chars can solo Ubers. Ez. Stab stab zon, properly geared sorc, fury druid, frenzy Barb, kicksin.

No you're right double swing is the main attack for frenzy barbs and frenzy is just for the buff.

grief blows ebotdz out of the water in terms of damage.

just tested, and grief sure is better in terms of damage, considering that my grief came with 340+ damage T.T

You then have to repair it every run, Pb's sacrifice range but no repair cost is huge W for pvm

@@Temme142 well you are ofc right. Its a question of preference i guess. I find that extra range very much comfortable tho and i dont have any issues with the repaircost xD

"The Joy of Grief" XD

@@sNsReal haha!

He was showing them side by side in a vacuum to strictly see the difference in the individual weapons damage output.

@@timdose72 I understand that. I just think it would be cool to show the power of grandfather in a real world scenario where you’re wearing proper gear for the item rather than make the weapon appear much weaker than it is due to the lack of deadly strike and slower speed.

good valid point. another video maybe to address this in the future.

If anyone wants to do that I have all the info on the strongest Ith sword from .10 useast back in the day it was called the 915 ITH cb. Rocked it with a 4 socket stormshield 4 socket valor and 3 socket veil

You have a keen eye! I know that the damage was all messed up in the original D2, but I thought it was supposed to be fixed on D2R?

Grief his dmg +400 is its own modifier which is not rly 1 hand dmg rather then dmg itself the busted part about it that its simply 400 flat and then everything applies , its a bit wierd to explain but to put it simply - u cant beat grief in dmg.

Just hope he doesnt find out about the meme build for melee necro. Its so overpowered its crazy and requires a grief for melee damage to be viable lol

@@SuppositionalBox I woulda let him have it if I knew then lolol but he doesn’t even really play anymore sadly.

Eth titans are not really useful, light fury damage isnt based on the wpn dmg.

In d2lod -coldres on gear or (or skills like cold mastery) could not break immunities, only lower resi curse and aura were able to break them. in d2r it is possible to break them with -coldres gear.

@@SeiShinCasios I think they fixed it

@@Blernster i think you are correct..QQ

Yea sad thing is WW hasn't been viable since 1.09 - much like most physical damage builds (Smite is an exception), which only work with highend gear

Then stick grief in a CB.

@@arolorn what are you talking about ww isn't viable? For what pvm or pvp, because your wrong on both accounts.

@@Jjvblack88 Ok I don't want to say you can't solo the game but compared to 1.09 it's lackluster. Same with multishot Bowazon. All I'm saying is barb needs some love

@@arolorn you are crazy sir, BvC are some of the most insane pvp for end game, as well as BvA. Load up LoD and I'll show you, I have a Barb vs All that I can change to BvC pretty quickly, he smashes wind druids, sorcs, bone necros, bows and java zons, smite pallys and hammerdin are easy peasy, the only that can really give him a problem are elite gfg ww hybrid assassins. My barb has 5.7k health, max res and a insane amount of AR and defense. You should do more research my dude, barb's are OP.

Tomb reaver definitely better than ribcracker. Not sure about tomb reaver vs grief though

Thank you. My point exactly as well.

that's a good point. i'll have to take a look

I can spoil the fun for you, One of each is the best setup overall. Death (Ettin axe) in main and Grief (Ettin axe or War spike) in offhand.

Why would it matter when doing a comparison? Not like he's claiming to have found these items.

Grief and Death don't cost too much... getting a Death base is hard though. Last Wish is crazy expensive. But Grief is considered pretty cheap for what it does with just a Lo rune

@@TheDesertSpear death imo is way more over powered than grief for pvm, deadly strike and crushing blow both proc on ww let alone frenzy/double swing.

The Grandfather can't be eth because it has the mod "indestructible" on the weapon which prevents items to be spawned eth. But I agree, would be awesome if the GF could be eth

i stopped playing when they released immunities, i just thought they didn't belong in d2

My barb is equipped with an ETH Botd and and Eternity ,both in a colossus blade.

that is now scheduled for tomorrow release 5am sharp =)

They tear through stuff with Grief. Farm for that Lo rune on your sorc and then roll the barb. My bro is running a frenzy barb with dual grief. He murders everything.

I would pick update, just add random sockets (differing per item and then with random roll from 0 so that not every is as good) and basically the pool of usable items quadruples with gems/jewels/runes with have right now. Then add just a couple new unique jewels with some cool affixes and its a whole new game.

Those were the days.

Imagine this was a Dimensional Blade (whick can be eth ofc), you upgrade it to a phase blade and have a even more fantastic eth phase blade which is indestructable

No such thing as eth GF. That would be sick, though

If one weapon requires the extra stat investment to top off its speed but the other doesn't, don't you feel that should be represented in a comparison? If anything, doing it your way would make the comparison less fair rather than more so.

@@TengouX Well, yeah but not really. It's not really a comparison if you don't consider the way the weapons would be played. If you have weapon X & Y, one fast with medium damage and one very slow with very high damage, you have to take into consideration that you can easily increase the attackspeed for the slower weapon and therefore boost killspeed a lot, while the faster weapon will hit the attackspeed cap sooner and stop scaling. Otherwise we could just compare the stats on a screenshot and already tell the winner. (Not to mention in this case it's obviously gonna be Grief with either method, because the +400dmg is just so damn broken xD )

I'd rather have the other trash uniques/sets buffed a bit so that they are not trash anymore. Right now, there are cheap runewords that render a huge number of mid-game unique/set obsolete. White, Spirit (weapon), Insight (for merc), Rhyme, etc. are so easy to make and are so useful that you can use them until you get the BiS items. At least things like The Grandfather can still be a useful stepping stone if you don't have the runewords that made it obsolete yet.

Naturally, you charge up with frenzy then unleash the double swing fury!

Items that are indestructible can not roll eth unless they are always eth.

My man. Those cruels used to be king, they were fucking nuts, magic/blue swords hitting 600+ damage with 3 sockets made the game so much more fun. Now when I find a cruel cb or cs i just charsi it.