Love it. This is what most people want. Proper fighting and racing. TdF is biggest cycling event so it should have mix of everything. More gravel next time please!
Liked it! Don't get the luck argument. Luck has played a major role in every tour I've watched since the 80's. And agree completely with Dan about downhill finishes and road furniture being much more dangerous. I couldn't watch the descent on stage 4.
I feel the gravel would be better if they kept the motorcycles off. The motorcycles were dusting the riders all day. It seems like drones could work better.
Exactly! I wonder when people will realise this.....May as well just do it on Zwift. Skills should always be a part of road racing, not just watts, w/kg, etc
@@Andy_ATBthis is so exaggerated! The descents in the tour are nowhere near a trainer bike. You try descending hairpins at 50-60mph. You’d become part of the pavement
@@trentonscism Yep. Just crossing the line of each stage requires a lot more technical ability than is apparent from watching on TV, not to mention that the winner is decided by team tactics, strategy, and many other things that go well beyond simply being the strongest rider. I'm not necessarily opposed to dirt roads but the argument against them is the same as the reasoning behind the 3 km rule on sprint stages - luck will always play a role in bike racing but nobody wants the entire tour to be decided by a momentary mishap. If Vingegaard hadn't had a teammate of the correct size nearby when he punctured his GC bid could be completely over and the conversation about the stage would be very different.
@@AndrewG99 Bad luck could happen anywhere on any stage. Look at Jumbos circus of a bike swap on perfectly smooth asphalt, Froome running up Mount Ventoux etc
@@gcnracing Couldn't they more actively use Helicopter shots for gravel periods, and have Bikes use roads around to catch the field once its asphalt again?
R.I.P. Andre....🙏❤🙏❤🙏❤🙏😪 Condolences and prayers to his family, his teammates, cyclists that peddled with/against him, and the entire cycling community.
Usually these flat stages are quite a snooze feast until the last 20km, but the gravel stage certain have me glued from 120km, anticipating attacks on the gravel sectors. Its good for the TDF, made racing more exciting, we want more of that.
Vlasov had to abandon this afternoon due to a broken ankle. How he managed to continue and finish the stage after his crash with this broken ankle is quite remarkable . Anyhow -- that is a big blow for Roglic for sure, as he looses his - so far - best man on his side for the mountains.
Yes, it's quite ironic that it's an injury at the other extreme of his body that's sidelined him, given that the concern - understandably - was for his head when he got back up and seemed to wobble before he remounted his bike. Maybe it was the instability in his ankle that caused him to struggle, although he definitely looked dazed.
One thing I haven’t seen much discussion about concerning this race: the amount of dust the rider undoubtedly inhaled. What’s more, heaven only knows what kind of crazy agricultural chemicals were in that dust. I would think this might even be a “workplace safety” issue. I enjoyed the thrilling racing for sure. But I hope gravel mania takes this seriously and takes measures to mitigate it.
One thing happened in the stage that was quite upsetting: Vlasov's crash where he hit his head at least twice whilst flipping over his bike and landing in a ditch. Yet, not only was he allowed to get onto his bike immediately, there was little or no concussion protocol employed with the medical car mostly concerned with putting a bandage on his elbow. Plus none of the USA commentators mentioned this at all. But a great stage and Visma played it correctly--for them it was purely a defensive game.
But the TDF also started with no gears, no radios, no teams, no support, no mtns, no TT, steal 20kg bikes, stages that lasted multiple days. I think this argument is pointless. It was exciting, but in the end nothing happened. So it is just a circus.
@@stephenmagee3766 They did have gears, with double-sided rear wheels. They did have teams. 7 of the top 10 of the first Tour in 1903 was riding for La Française, a team who lasted 1901-1955. They also had mountains with the Col de la Republique in the 2nd stage in history. There weren't stages that lasted multiple days, they always started early to fit into a single day. Your view of early cycling is not based on facts, but prejudice and gut feelings. Cycling is a circus, as they are both part of the entertainment industry. Being exciting is their point. It means no sense to disparage this stage because of that.
@@andrasszabo1570wrong. Wrong wrong. There were no high mountains in the first tours. The hubs were fixed on descent they would take feet off the pedals, they did not race as teams supporting each other (fined and DQ'ed for giving food or water to another rider), stages were not completed in one day, often they rode at night to finish ( being towed by cars holding a cork in teeth attached to a car by wire one form of cheating), there were 3 rest days between stages (first tour having 9 stages total in 2,400km) the second gear where you had to take the wheel off and flip or dismount and move the chain were not allowed in the first tour. The tour actively worked to keep technology out.
Sprinkling a few gravel sectors into a single stage makes for very entertaining viewing! Riders have to run during cyclocross races or up the Koppenberg so I’ve no problem with that either.
What a terrific addition to the Tour. This gravel stage gives us a little of what the early (pre-1960) riders might actually have experienced, when not all roads were perfectly sealed. I'd also love to see them ditch the use of radios for the gravel stage to make the racing truly exciting, instead of the processional we have now with DSs managing the team by the minute with the benefit of the TV coverage.
This gravel stage went about as well as the organizers could have hoped for. Lots of excitement but nothing too dangerous, though it very easily could have gone another way. I suspect gravel stages are here to stay for quite some time. Great analysis as always Dan!
Excellent analysis of the stage, Dan, and of Vingegaard's reasons for not working with Pogacar and Evenepoel. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that he hadn't had a chance to check out the stage in person, due to trying to get some form at altitude before the Tour started. I'm sure both Evenepoel and Pogacar had checked out the main gravel sectors, and probably had a much better idea of what was to come. Vingegaard was relying on his team not only to pull him back into contention later on, but also to guide him through the sections that they will have trained on but which he hadn't seen.
So sad to hear about André Drege passing away. He was having a great season, winning two stage races in Greece, and there were talks of him moving to a WorldTour Team next year (possibly Jayco-AlUla). Besides that, he died in pretty much the same conditions as the late Gino Mäder: in a mountain descent. I think something as to be done for increasing safety in mountain descents, a bit like for sprints after the big accident by Fabio Jakobsen. So sad to hear another one passing away so young and promising.
Brilliant: I fully support the perspective of "complete drivers" vs just "Watts per kilo" being worthy of a Grand Tour win. There's more to unpack here, but I applaud you for this video as it will make us think
I totally agree... I think that the magic of a grand tour is that there is something for every type of rider to shine at some point. I think that it forces all of the riders to become better and it allows for hidden talent to come out of the woodwork when they would otherwise be outshined by pure watts per kilo.
Agree with your stance on the Remco, Pog, Jonas "attack" with Jonas not working. A lot of people said that Jonas was conserving energy in the wheel, but it certainly looked like he burnt way more matches than Pog just trying to hold the wheel.
Regarding Vlasov's unsteadiness after his crash, Chris Horner noted that his left foot was precariously balanced on the edge of the tarmac when he tried to mount his bike. So, he may have had a concussion, but that instability was due to another cause.
I see that Vlasov was withdrawn due to a broken left ankle, so that could also have been part of the problem. Note that he did finish the stage. I remember years ago breaking an ankle in a bike crash but being able to ride to my destination. I did require a ride home.
Stage 9 was definitely exciting, but at the same time, it proposes an unnecessary risk that doesn't belong in this particular tour. This type of terrain would belong more in something like Paris Roubiax.
The first decades of the TdF there were gravel sections. As in most of the race was on gravel. This is simply a nod to tradition. As my old dad would say "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be." Viva la Tour et Viva la terre.
Hi Dan & GCN Racing, I loved the Gravel stage at this year's TdF. I've watched every stage of the TdF this year & the last 3 years, I've been following the TdF since ever I can remember. When these "un-typical" stages are brought in they always add tension & suspense and they always make for excellent exciting viewing. All the arguments about punctures, mechanical issues and "luck" are rubbish, these things happen on normal stages what's the difference? I can't wait to see more stages like yesterday's!
Very entertaining for us spectators but on the other hand I would have found it sad for the race as a whole, if any of the GC riders had been hampered by serial punctures/accidents to an extent, where it would have meant the tour were lost there. Overall it went well but I would rather see more mountainstages where legs and technics are a bigger decider, with less luck involved. It were a mad and exciting race day but....
Gravel was great fun to watch and I for one would like our Grand Tour Winners to be the best all around cyclists, not just the best high mountain finisher. If no stages to test who is best on a bike, might as well put Pogi, Roglic, Remco and Jonas on Zwift/Wahoo trainers and see who can pound out the best power to weight ratio for the longest.... That would be a snooze fest now wouldn't it!!
I agree with your opinion. It was really cool to watch the gravel segments. I didn’t think about growing the sport, but I could see many of my cyclocross friends really enjoying that stage.
It did expose some of the rodies lacking the skills to cope but it was the best day so far . Totally agree Dan it has to stay. Gravel was in the Tour during the early years . Hope it stays .Maybe less motorbikes stirring up the dust .👍
Luck is a huge part of the history of the tour! And not even long dead history either. Remember stage 19 of the 2019 tour: Julian Alaphilippe was losing time up the climbs but we all knew he could make it back on the descent and maybe keep the yellow jersey, only for the stage to be called off because of a snowstorm and landslide? He lost yellow because of it - and that was just bad, bad luck. The 'what-if's' and 'could have won!' become the things we all talk about on our group rides, and luck is a big part of that.
100% agree with you. Like individual TT or Team TT, cobbles and gravel should be included in a couple of stage per grand tour events in small tour (7 days). We are sit in front of the screen during all the stage 9. 👍
That gravel stage was one of the best stages in ages! Loved it. I wish there was more gravel and in particular more climbing on gravel. Doesn’t have to be chaotic at all if the riders use the right equipment and actually practice riding on gravel. You could really tell which riders had little to no experience riding on gravel roads.
I've really been warming up to Remco since last year's Vuelta. It's exciting to see the GC underdog becoming the literal third wheel of the podium competition. I hope he keeps getting written off while he keeps defying all of those odds.
Agree 100%. Awesome stage! When I saw the lead group come across that section with the steep climb I knew all hell was going to break out when the peleton got there. The gravel really made for a super interesting stage. I really don't think it was any more dangerous than any other stage. As long as there are not multiple gravel stages I see no problem with it even if gravel sections are sprinkled though out the 3 weeks.
Gravel roads was a great idea. Next year they can have a route running on railroad tracks to test the bike suspensions. Too bad the TDF is in the summer. If it was in the winter. they could have snow and ice stages. I guess they could have stages where they ford rivers, streams, and canals.
Brilliant stage. Road bikes with disc brakes and wide tyres are now more than capable of this type of stage without too much jeopardy. I prefer a bit gravel to cobbles but a bit of both are great in the Tour.
My only strong opinion is regarding that t-shirt, Dan. That is a sweet design. I think you hit the gravel section dead-on. I loved the whole stage. It was very exciting.
I love gravel and cobble stages at the tour. Let's have more of it! (obviously keep it to one stage a year). The luck argument reminds me of everyone saying Sagan was so lucky to rarely crash when he was involved in incidents. It was skill not luck. Totally agree with all of Dan's counterpoints in this video
My opinion of gravel stages is the same as for the cobbled classics; if 70% of the route is still paved, then they will just ride regular road bikes with different tires. Now it's basically the inverse of gravel racers putting aero bars on their gravel bikes. I feel it's the bike brands pressuring ASO to normalize wide tire clearance and to sell gravel bikes to new riders.
Really enjoyed the gravel stage, but drone coverage would be better than the bikes. As to the curfuffle about Jonas, he's got a race to win. Showboating in the first week is not going to do it. This race will be won in the high mountains of the third week. People seem to be forgetting the Giro is in a few legs.....
Prior to the stage, I scoffed at the decision to include graveling in the illustrious Tour. After watching the ENTIRE race, I was blown away. Gravel YES! But as you said, as long as it’s not extreme. First time I’ve watched an entire stage this year.
Exciting to watch ,yes, but too much luck involved even if some of it can be mitigated. We want the right winner after three weeks, and not for a key GC contender to be distanced by three minutes on a single stage because of chance. An extra mountain stage with a summit finish would add some more excitement with less luck involved.
That gravel climb was fun to watch. I hope it was longer to see the change on who is leading. However, I still want them to fight for position, since it is in the end it is still a race
Always refreshing listening to a smart, eloquent and well educated analysis. Thank you very much. I feel the gravel stage was exciting very risky but entertaining.
It was literally the best thing I have seen in years and I disagree when people say the stage puts too much luck into the equation. The teams with the best planning and preparation always seem to have the best luck.
This was the best stage by far in all of Tour history. Kept me glued start to finish and it wasn't some freakish mega mountain after mountain that only a tiny select few have any chance at - those are great to watch but come on, there's more terrain out there and this stage met that need. Those riders who are not used to it - well too bad, go enter some races then with this type of parcours and get that experience built up. I think not only should this stage be replicated every single year but enhance with something like a top 10 finisher special purse that goes way above the paltry amounts - get someone to specifically sponsor the prize money. Big money, like 500k Euros just for this. GC riders need to earn their keep on all terrains.
The variety of terrain and stages makes it more interesting. I’d like to see more gravel in place of the more boring flat stages. I can’t imagine it makes it more dangerous than the steep descents. Of course, it is a road race, so I expect it should be traversable on a road bike, but it also makes it interesting if they have to make some decisions about tires to trade off speed on the gravel vs speed on tarmac
Fantastic, more please. It introduces risk and uncertainty, which we need to keep the uber-teams from nailing everything down. It also rewards the more skilled bike handlers.
I found the gravel stage of the TdF to be very watchable and entertaining. I'm not a pure road cyclist, coming from mostly a mtb background, so maybe that's colored my opinion but variable surfaces on some of the stages are what I find to be interesting. Cranks up the racing a bit for me. The chance of variable surface is also why I enjoy the Giro a bit more than the TdF.
Great job hi-lighting the best of the race week. Viewers in the U.S. missed the breakaway's entry into the first gravel section because of an ill-timed interview by NBC/Peacock's Steve Porino with a Faberge egg-loving champagne maker. We also learned from the NBC/Peacock team that Stage 9 had numerous cobblestone sections. Phil Liggett and Bob Roll call the race for NBC/Peacock and spent a good part of the race calling the gravel sections "cobbles". At one point they admitted their error, but continued to make it. I though Bob's use of "cobbles" at 3 hour 38 minutes into the broadcast was the last we'd hear of it, but then Phil referred to gravel as cobbles at 4 hours 25 minutes into the broadcast. It was cringe-worthy. Nevertheless, it was a very exciting stage and I imagine the Eurosport broadcast team did a fantastic job calling it. RIP GCN+.
I’m all for a little mild unpredictability in the race. This is part of road racing - the weather, potholes, road furniture, errant spectators - these all make road racing what it is - sometimes magnificent, sometimes tragic. If you want to eliminate all chance and reduce cycling to watts, stick to time trialing on an indoor track or Zwift racing
I for one think having a gravel stage is a good idea and yesterday was a great indicator of that. The beauty of the TDF is that it isn't one thing, the GC. You have the end of stage sprints on those days the sprinters are able to be up front. The mountain stages for climbers. Individual and team TT's. And you have the various jersey's for GC, Sprint, Mountains and Best Young Rider. For me, adding a stage that has significant total length of dirt/gravel roads is one way to further improve riding ability as the skill to ride dirt/gravel is a value elsewhere.
I think it's good to have some smooth-ish gravel sectors in a stage - like this. Not a good idea to have rough cobble sectors. In this case it worked out great for spectating: extra action... GC firewords on a flat stage... an interesting finale. While still being tame enough that it didn't cause injuries or time losses to the top GC guys.
Call of a Life Time Grand Prix in the US got be back to watching Bike Racing again. Gravel Racing is definitely more relatable. from a viewing perspective. I enjoy watching the Tour, but it is a sport you have to understand. The KOM and Sprint competition reminds me of US Baseball, things that have to be added so the stages aren't boring and yet, things can still be pretty boring. It is hard to see the strategy in a baseball batting line-up as it is to see what is going on w/in a team versus the stage and Peloton. The NetFlix series definitely helps put more context to the teams, so that really helps. All that being said, the Gravel Stage was the most entertaining stage for me - I loved it. I loved seeing the Peloton getting blown up and strung out and actually getting to "see" the actual racing. It was super engaging as a viewer.
How do I feel about the gravel stage ? Well , I sympathize with those who don't want to lose the TDF because they can't get a timely bike or wheel change but , damn , that was the best race I've seen in a while. And for what it's worth , TVL and Vingegaard were the smartest GC combo in the race.
I've been really impressed by Remco. He's doing great! Considering he was in the same crash as Vingegaard (not the same injuries of course) and most people seem confident that Vingegaard's form will improve, I'm hoping the same will be true for Remco. He adds a lot of excitement to this Tour imo.
This might be a little late (still catching up after tdf full-time) but want to count myself in the numbers of being a huge fan of this type of gravel stage. Totally agree that skills should be a big part of cycling rather than watts numbers. And yes they shouldn't be extreme. But tackling an awkward uphill loose shortish gravel road should be in all pro's skillset. Heck, in many countries this is in fact a road that can be found on anyone's regular route! (like mine in British Columbia, or in Ontario or Quebec for example!) Love your Racing News Show btw:)
It was very entertaining and I hope that the powers that be continue to have at least one stage of gravel. The stage Pogi won was absolutely terrifying and I literally could not watch.
Dear god! We watched the breakaway go, jumped ahead to Sector 12, and then watched every minute. Utterly outstanding stuff. Folk complain about the increased risk, but I didn't notice more than the usual number of punctures and the only significant accident was on tarmac. And having good luck (or at least better than your rivals) is a core skill for any Jersey or stage contenders. I don't need 'traditional' road surfaces every Grand Tour, but I have no issues with cobbles or gravel every few years. Just no more roads that are periodically under water (like Mont St Michel). Split Stage 21 with the Champs Elysees sprint followed by CX under the Eifel Tour? Le Tour CX La Tour?
Having interesting stage oustide of hardcore mountain is a godsend. Honestly they could do them on more difficult ground so they would switch to gravel bike, maybe reducing mechanic problem of road bike on a easy gravel road After the snore boring fest that are flat sprint stage it was incredible. They honestly need to find how to make flat / sprint stage into something else, as is nobody even try to breakaway and only the last 5k are interesting
Pre tubeless and disc brakes I would have said no to gravel stages, but now that there are 30c tires able to run at 55psi we need to have more stages that challenge the bikes capability.
Love the gravel sections! So much more action going on because of it, but yes, next time keep the motorcycles further away and use drones for filming those sections.
