don't worry, i didn't even bat an eylid. while i agree that it's best to consider colour from the outset, you did remind me that values play a significant role which i kind of forgot--i should watch your earlier videos again. hey i never knew about gradient map. i wouldn't use it to colour an image, but it might come in handy to achieve interesting effects.
I have another suggestion: While working in Photoshop, go to: Window--> Arrange --> Another window for (your image). It creates an identical image beside it, in another tab. You can turn that image into grayscale by going to: View --> Proof Setup --> working gray. This way, you're painting in colours while watching your values. It's the best way I've found.
and if your software doesn't have a function like this, you can add a black fill layer on top, and switch it to color. then just flick it on and off to check values from time to time. its what i do in krita :)
The one you did at the 15 minute mark with the gradient map looks so cool! I've never actually tried the grayscale method, but the gradient mapping looks fun to try out.
I love the vibe that you can only get by use greyscale to colour! Yes it does take much more time and doesn’t look as vibrant but that special vibe is seriously good.
Nice video, I may not yet draw so well but I too fell that the greyscale painting is quite limiting, colors tend to look un-natural or flat once applied if you don't put a lot of time to make them right... Though I think the first technique is better for training your shapes/values and edges or to get an initial idea of your composition and such without worrying about the colors, specially for beginners. By the way, this makes me wonder if 'inking' before coloring a drawing doesn't have a similar problem ? A lot of times blocking the colors and then trying to make them all work can get quite tedious too haha.
This video contains more knowledge than all hours of painting class on the 1st year of my studies together. Thank you. EDIT. Omg, I didn't know there are so many people in similar situation. :O Hope you progress every day~
the most important thing to have is the correct greyscale values when using blendmodes. and use multiply not soft light overlay etc unless you know what ur doing. simply turning down saturation doesnt give you the true values. instead make a black n white adjustment layer and set everything to 100% to get the correct values. painting in this way give the exaact same result as if you where to glaze and oil painting
StickyFingazFO20 I mean I can make a solid painting if I start grey scale but I feel like it won't be as good if I start with color right away. I do photography, if I'm planning to take BnW pics, I wouldn't take pics with color settings and then turning it BnW digitally later, because I won't aesthetically see it in bnw..if that makes sense.
I think its mainly for people that thinks about gray scale and values first before colours. Some people find it really hard to decide what colour they want to use. Its easier to switch colours around this way. For example, if im designing a character with complex clothing and I dont know if he or she should wear black or red sweater, I would do gray scale first. and then try on these colours.
I'm amazed! This guy is not your average "how to draw" youtuber. We got some clean and analytic explanation useful for even professionals. Not to mention the incredible illustrations and real time examples making it so easily understandable. I wish you were my mentor. Hats off!
THANK YOU. I tried this technique the other day (I paint in color) and it was so frustrating and I couldn't igure out why. Was hard for me to not feel like a failure. ._.
a lot of people say grayscale to color is very easy to beginner, but I think, its work only for artist that already has a very good understanding about color
it's amazing how you get straight to the point of the topics that we students want to know (but nobody explained) ... just THANK YOU very much!!! (your book is unbelievable)
haha, thanks for watching! This video is presented with a hefty bias (even attached that in the video's title) so do be sure to further explore the grayscale technique, both on your own and from artists who favour it, so you may ultimately come to your own decision(s)! All the best with your work,
colour is by far the most daunting aspect of a picture for me. Maybe its because I'm colourblind. I often run into a wall where my colours don't look quite right, even to me, when I start greyscale - but I can actually finish an image without stressing so much haha
Another thing you didn't mention (I think) is drawing straight with color but having a pure black layer on top that is set to saturation(this turns it into grayscale without changing the values like desaturating normally does). Then you can enable this layer from time to time to see your values and disable again to continue painting in color.
I've seen a couple comments that mention that glazing shouldn't be used as a technique in painting, and this is just untrue. The old masters didn't do it soley out of necessity, they also did it to achieve radiant, almost glowing tones. The under layers reflect through the glaze layers and give an effect that can only be achieved through glazing. This is all speaking about oil painting though, so is it different on Photoshop? Im not entirely sure. But to say that glazing is a beginner technique, or that it isn't worth the time- is just Ill informed.
I think its completely different in Photoshop. In oil all the benefits of the glazing technique comes from the material itself. How light bounces off and scatters through the different layers, how different pigments let colours through, etc. It's a physical phenomenon. None of this is applicable to digital "glazing". Even if you take a photo of an old master's work, a lot of the extra quality of the glazing will get lost.
I watched this years ago and as a result, I stopped trying to push grayscale to color method. Now we're here and found that it's the best method for me! I agree with the reasons why grayscale to color doesn't feel right like about controlling the edges. So what I did was I just added my own twist in the technique. Instead of rendering the drawing in grayscale, I apply the color layer first (I use soft light instead color layer mode), then I make a new layer where I render the values + colors. That way I have more control! I do have a video of my digital art process so if you're interested you can check it out. You just really need to find a way to make things work sometimes. I struggle a lot with colors that's why I chose to give this method another try!
I'm at the beginner stage. That is why I am using values for now. Since back when I was a total noob. I just pringled colors into my art like a maniac. So, I just wanted to understand values much more. So, I chose to work with values.
Me too I'm a beginner when I color my painting it looks ugly cause I don't understand color theory so that's why I learn about values first then the color theory
I feel like the greyscale method works great for drawing focused artists for more comicbook type work, and can really help them get exposure to the color world if they are lacking. The non greyscale methods would obviously be more appealing for those painter focused artists and of course the work style that goes with it. There are all kind of hybrids and thats great. Just do what fits you. its just amazing to have to many options and styles, just keep creating 👍
THANK YOU. I learned Digital Painting in school doing the greyscale to color method and It always felt off. I forced myself to do it because that is how I was taught. I not only hated how my pieces were turning out, I really disliked the process... I feel that's something important that artists don't talk about enough. Once I shunned what I was taught and started digitally painting straight to color, it was fun again. My work has increased and so has my mental state, haha!
The black and white method works best for moody dark art with minimal color. You put way too many colors in your art too be messing with that approach.
That makes sense, its something ive heard about black and white photography and film that the benefit it has is you can get really rich darks, cause with color you can see much more going on in them but in black and white its just black... well not just black theres subtle variation, but its much harder to distinguish than color variations.
he said he starts with neutrals for a reason. Yo can add a lot more life even to a dark ambient painting if you add color variety in neutral tones, with temperature shifts , rather than just completely neutral grays. Is not about cheery vs gloomy
"The way your process feels to you has a significant outcome." I think this sums up why some people love this technique and others don't. I struggle with value and identifying value (maybe I'm just a bad artist), so taking the time to focus on shadows and light helps me to improve my sense of form in a painting. It also helps me to not use flat colours in a cel-shading style. I get the option to practice blending edges, paying attention to light and shadow, and focusing on form and shape. When I move to the colour, I don't use Overlay, Multiply, or Color; I use Light layers (soft light, hard light, etc.) and those act different as well. I get the chance to see how the colour works in the value and adjust based on my eye. My process doesn't take a saturated colour, smear it over the values, and then call it done. I have a very different way of painting than you do. Your art uses lots of textured brushes to add accents, and that's not how I paint. I don't need to add colour to a halftone brush or a broken glass brush, because that's not part of my process. I use fewer than three brushes in my art. Your technique, however, relies on those splashes of coloured texture for the "expression" in your image. The techniques you demonstrated to do colour are glazing, and that's not everyone's process either. I'm paused right now at 12:18 just because what you said really made me want to say all this. :P It's very interesting to see your process and how different it is to mine.
I pretty much completely agree with you. I only JUST started with digital art, so I'm a noob, but I would like to at least try grayscale to color. I totally understand what he's saying about it being extra work, but I don't think it's too bad if you use a different style with fewer colors, and a different approach to adding the color. I just watched a Draw with Jazza video where his grayscale-to-color image looked great and seemed really fast, becuz it was relatively simple and stylized. Bucci's style seems to be replicating that of real life paint, while I like a more... I dunno, artificial feel to my work? Like a cartoon with rather simplistic colors and values, but with realistic proportions and stuff. However I'd like to branch out to make not a "real" painting, but practice more with realistic shading instead of, as you said, cell-shading style, which I think will also help me branch out to not needing to use (often bold) lineart when I feel like giving that a try.
Wow! After all these years of trying to understand or trying to accept coloring from greyscale to color, I finally found the answer! Many artists encourage this method but I always struggled because it never felt complete or cohesive. So many extra steps just to include color. Sometimes I'd rather just keep it greyscale and call it finish. But I love color. Another answer you gave me that I didn't even know I was looking for was how to start with color. I was mind blown when you mentioned you started with neutral colors and added more or less saturation based on how you felt along the way. That's such an amazing way, I must try. Thank you so much for this video. It's just what I needed to start changing.
Both approaches are correct to the purpose of a particular piece. The benefit of the grisaille technique, when done traditionally, is it can let an inner light created in the monochromatic layer come through the glazing that just isn't quite possible when working with opaque color. That being said I haven't been able to work out the same effect when working with digital paints. The commentary is a valid perspective. But, so is working in value first, in the right setting.
Thank you for this very good video. Still I think that you missed one major point: You ARE already a professional. You know how values, shapes, light and so on work. The problem is, that everybody starts out with colors and gets into this "Microsoft Paint" style with the colors, because they get easily confused and they often spend many years to figure out what is wrong in their art. Seperating colors from the other aspects is something I highly recommend everyone who starts out with art. You should focus on the fundamentals first before trying to get to expression. I totally agree with you on that point, throwing in the colors more quickly is mostly more expressive but nothing we should start with if we really want to improve. It helps me a lot, to leave out the colors first and I learned a lot about, why my colors did not work in the painting. Greyscale to color IS a very hard thing to do, because we often don't understand the connection between colors and values as you have shown in this video. But by using this technique we will learn from it and understand how this all works together until, if we prefere it that way, start painting directly in color. Greyscale is also a way to figure out compositions much easier, btw :) Also you should consider, that you have a very painterly style which is really not fitting for the greyscale technique. I think it depends also much on what you want to paint and what style you are doing :) Have a nice day and looking forward to your next video!
Even though I find it rather hard and I still struggle, I try to go directly with colors as well. If I start with greyscale, I tend to get "stuck" when I start applying the colors, it just looks dull and washed out. When starting the colors, I add a black layer on color mode to check my values from time to time. It's not easy, but at least I look at the pros: the more I work that way, the more I get used to starting directly with colors :)
I like grayscale to color pieces, but only if they're used to convey a certain atmosphere in a painting. For instance, it works really well to me if the artist is trying to convey a sad, detached/eerie emotion in a piece or is trying to portray early morning/evening light. However, I don't like it when it is used in pieces that are attempting happier, livelier imagery because the grayscale creates too many desaturated tones that express the opposite of what is intended by the artist, which confuses the viewer. I think grayscale to color is fine as long as it is used appropriately and can have some really cool effects. This was a really great and informative video. You're really good at explaining art processes in a simple but effective way, which is something that I think most art channels lack. I tend to get lost when people try to explain concepts like this. However, I easily understood your message here. : - )
I never used the grayscale method and I had such a hard time with it cos it seemed like every concept artist used it. I always just splotched colour right from the beginning. These are the very flaws you brought up here, and you also gave me some other useful tips. Much obliged, Marco.
The "gateway" version reminds me lf what my traditional painting teacher had us do. We never went into a full grayscale painting but maybe 30% and painted ontop. Enough to get the main shapes, because doing a full grayscale and then color feels like painting it twice. Coloring ontop of grayscale digitally is tricky. You have to be a wiz at layer modes and picking colors. Most have desatutated tone and feeling because they go with the values. I think it works depending on the piece, but in general is pretty limiting due to how bright and saturated the colors can possibly look. So for me it's easier to learn grayscale > gateway method > full color
Really interesting topic. While I wholeheartedly agree and believe in painting with colors, I think for beginners, grayscale painting is an important step for speedier learning. When you still don't have all the fundamentals down, when you have a finished artwork and decide to evaluate it to realize what you need to keep improving on, it might be a bit hard to distinguish if it's a value problem, a color problem or anything in between. Keeping it grayscale allows for less variants and for beginners to take one step at a time. Even though it's a lengthier process at face value (no pun intended) it helps to learn faster because pinpointing your mistakes is easier. The idea though, is to eventually graduate from that and start painting straight with colors.
I never understood how to make greyscale to color and was planing to learn it because everybody was saying how better it is. now I don't want to anymore. and I don't even draw the color-y way you do. plus I use color picker too much. that would be impossible in that way.
Bruh you do not like this style because you are not doing it right. What the heck.... You are skilled with your color work but you do the grey scale injustice big time. Also you yes grey scale does not work for your style which many people may not enjoy. To me this painting looks like a mess and not fun at all. It looks frustrating and messy. Also note nothing is stopping you from doing it in greyscale first in your own explanation other than you do not like that method as you do not understand it.
You can always make even the smallest things about painting really interesting to learn about! Starting off immediately with color definitely gives more expression and energy to a piece, and I like the multiple options you gave in turning grayscale into color. I still personally prefer to start off with a grayscale sketch in my paintings, but I know I’ll start to think of how to preserve shapes and edges with the opaque color layers from now on!
I'm sorry, but who exactly is saying that when you are doing a grayscale that you intend to color, your not taking into consideration all those things you pointed out? There is a difference between painting values and painting grayscales, and the biggest difference is what you intend to do with it. In regards to your grayscale to colour process, if you know your going to be coloring it, why are you blindly putting in values without intent. More over, if you keep your intentions intact, you will spend the same time doing colors from the start, verse the grayscale to colour... its literrally a preference, all the ending touch ups (making the painting feel together) you do, you do regardless. Also, for colour deficient people, the value process is very helpful and speeds up time, once more, with intention.
I find painting directly in color is easier, the hue and saturation also affect values, that means I only need to get the value at about 70-80% correct, the rest will be done by the colors once I get the colors right.
Learning greyscale to colour would be especially detrimental when you're painting skin. If you're so used to working with values _only_ you'll probably fall into the common mistake that shadows and highlights are just darker and brighter versions of the base skin tone, which is why skin ends up looking waxy, lifeless and flat. Skin is made up of at least 10 different shades, with different saturation and brightness. I think it's much easier to go from painting colour to painting values than the other way around.
I understand what you are saying. I have focused almost entirely on color. It is like learning a language. Focusing on color language gives you fluency. Then, learn to do a griselle with color in mind from the beginning. Complete.
For its like most things in the world, starting with values is a tool for certain medias. Being a painterly artist worried about strokes etc then ya starting with values makes no sense at all. If your a concept art using say a digital matte painting style then starting with values make way more sense and works. Different media and styles utilize different tools.
Pretty much the solution I'm slowly building up to. I got stuck recently with trying to add color to a detailed grayscale and hating both the result and experience... I ended up either having to redo everything afterward in color if I wanted to achieve a nice raw look, or simply accepting that it would look kinda muddy. Realized that introducing colors much earlier in the process would still allow me to focus on shapes at first (without color intruding in the process) but would let me have fun with the expressiveness of the colors and detailing process.
I couldn't agree more. Doing greyscale to colour just adds problems and a butt load of unnecessary work, you pretty much have to paint your piece 3 times over (greyscale, colour map, final layer on top) just to achieve the same results. Also colours from overlays, multiplies and colour layers feel extremely artificial, you can immediately tell that it was done by Photoshop. Maybe I'm just buyest because I ale preffer traditional look but this is a tedious technique that's just not worth it.
I disagree. Traditionally I love diving right in with opaque colors and mix them on the canvas itself, leaving pure colors within the neutrals in tiny areas. But when I am creating stuff for concept (from my head and multiple references and I am changing planes and light), doing everything in grayscale saves a crap ton of time. You're not painting it 3 times, and even if you were, it's not at the same speed. Imagine you're painting a metal armor, next to a red fabric (cape) and reflective dragon scales all on the same piece. Figuring out the colors and the values all at the same time will take a lot more trial and error than painting everything with just black and white. You don't even have to switch in between colors on each texture since you're only relying on light. And when you glaze, you can also only use opaque brushstrokes in areas of emphasis or that need more layers. So painting it in grayscale and then add opaque or saturated colors on top is not taking the same time to paint it 3 times. It saves hours of figuring out lighting through color.
what I do, as I'm still not so used to color, I open two windows of the same file but one in black and white. I hope that it would be useful to someone. Great video, thanks.
Oh wow, I never really liked the grayscale to color technique. Your points on how it makes it harder to incorporate color later helped me figure out why.
That's exactly how i've felt whenever i do it! and i always thought i was just very terrible at comprehending value to color. It might be that some artists have a stronger desire for color expression which would make color first more important. honestly i think the method comes down to what the artist strives for most.
Old masters were using grayscale underpainting and their paintings aren't inexpressive. Just use it correctly and then paint over if you wish with color glaze layer or thick normal layer. Grayscale helps to achieve more realistic "Rembrandt" type of painting where you can show form and light interaction with its surface. For cartoon style paintings it just adds complexity.
The old masters didn't have much choice. A lot of the oil paint they had access to weren't as opaque as the ones that came along later. White is usually the most opaque of all the colors, and the lead white they had wasn't nearly as opaque as the titanium white that came later. They didn't master grisaille + glazing because it was better, they did it because they didn't have a choice.
Also, you have to consider that grisaille involves layer fat over thin, in which modulating your paint per layer is a technique in and of itself. Marco wasn't putting down grisaille, just expressing why he doesn't use it. With advancements in technology even not including digital painting, grisaille is now a niche that focuses on achieving mood rather than as the predominate tool at the time. Also, Rembrandt spent a shit load of time painting fat over lean on his painting, which is an arduous process that isn't a feasible workflow in most industry pipelines today due to the massive time restraints on projects
So they did an B&W underpainting and then went over it and painted normally on top? They didn't have access to "special layers" so they could've just skipped the underpainging and went straight for it. Their colours look expressive and natural because they were painted straight forward just as you would painting with colour to begin with. The problem with PS is that you end up trying to clean up its mess as the special layers colours look far from natural and you'd be just better off painting in colour to begin with.
The old masters used earth tones for underpaintings and grisaile. They didnt strictly use black and white they always used red, brown, orcher and earth tones.
You pronounce everything very clearly, have a nice tone of voice and explain everything so even a very novice painter like me understood your process, thank you very much for this video Marco.
I disagree. If anyone wants to jump right into color from the get go because it's fun or more expressive for them, great. Whatever works for you as an artist. For me, reducing the complexity of the work by doing a greyscale first allows me to get the structure of the image down quickly. Then doing the color in a non-destructive manner allows me to explore my color choices and make major changes at pretty much any stage. You associate converting greyscale to color with glazing on another layer-which is basically you coloring the greyscale with whatever tones you pick in the moment. So yeah, I can see that leading to a disconnected feel. But you don't have to do that to convert. I use the gradient map method you mentioned but not as an "automatic" thing. I would lay one down over the entire composition to tie everything together and then blend in additional ones as needed. You could have one for each object if necessary. These will allow you to explore options very quickly and can be changed at any point until you flatten them. And that is in addition to all the other options you have--other types of adjustment layers, filters, direct painting, etc. The ease and flexibility of doing it this was are immense. Starting with color just looks like hell. Even if I was working in traditional media I would do greyscale and color studies before committing to a major painting.
Thanks JEQ - these are all good points. As with any video presenting a bias (mine being the opposite of yours on this, it seems), people will come in on either end of it. Hopefully nobody views my video here as a blanket condemnation of the grayscale technique. I did my best to not present it that way - rather, as things to simply think about. And I hope people read comments like yours, are prompted to explore beyond just this video, then make up their own minds. All the best,
I totally agree with you Marco. Everytime I begin with color I feel that my art gets a better result. I think this is related to what you said about joy and fun while painting, because lets admit, painting in grayscale first is really boring. And another thing I was just wondering... I dont know any traditional painter who does grayscale technique, so why would we do that right? It is unnatural...
@@RubyLime1 Shapes, Value, Edges and Colour (as well as brushwork and a decent amount of other choices) are just as important to consider in both digital and traditional painting. To say that you shouldn't learn from the process of of traditional artists because the medium is different is not something I can agree with at all. Sure, the nuances of your medium are different, but if you go back and watch any of Marco's process videos for traditional art (his watercolour boat painting, for example) he's still employing exactly the same decision making process as he does digitally in a lot of the earlier structure stages and the overall composition of a piece.
Finally someone who likes to start with colors! My art teacher is always talking about grayscale and putting the colors afterwards, but it really takes away the fun with art...
@@buttbuttyawn3280 Oh no don't take it the wrong way; I was referring to him saying "I dont know any traditional painter who does grayscale technique, so why would we do that right? It is unnatural...". This is kind of close-minded thinking if you approach digital painting. I very well know how important traditional painting is to digital painting and how they bridge between each other, but saying that because traditional painters don't do something that digital artists do is suddenly "unnatural" is what I had gripes with. I probably should have phrased my original comment differently :)
@@RubyLime1 Ah, I see what you mean now! That makes perfect sense and totally agreed. Apologies, we'll meet halfway and say it was your phrasing and my lack of reading and misinterpretation too, haha.
that ballroom painting is one of the best digital art pieces i've ever seen. the colours are just amazing. I love the windows and lights. and that dress holy crap. how on earth do you do this. :D ;(
i dont paint greyscale, tried it once and hated it from the start. BUT!!!! ALL THE HELPFUL BASIC COLOR THEORY AND PAINTING THINGS MADE ME SUBSCRIBE TO YOU AND IT WAS SO SO SO NICE THAT YOU MENTIONED THE PROFESSIONAL WORLD OF ART AT ALL IN THE VIDEO so yeah youre great thanks for this
The example you showed using colors on the wrong shape of value is not a good one. If you don't have knowledge to use color as a tool to capture light and thus form, you would be making nonsense starting opaquely too. It's not an argument against glazing as much as it is against the lack of knowledge of the relationship between color and form. You can't show someone throwing red and yellows randomly on value forms to show that glazing lacks connection between color and value. If the same person throwing random oranges and reds started opaquely, it would end in the same result. I am more of an opaque painter (especially traditionally) but when creating new images or complex images with different textures that reflect lights differently, the pre -value painting saves time. So when I am putting color I can just go with the tones I already established. Rather than doing trial and error with just colors first. If I already planned on a color palette, I would use a grisaille first. If I am experimenting with colors (and kinda have an idea on lighting already), I start opaque first. Since I am still getting used to the feel of digital now, I thinks grayscale helps with unity. Though if I want a painterly approach, colors first feels better.
In the past few years, I've started painting digitally a lot more, and not too long ago, an art teacher of mine held a intense, five day traditional painting workshop thats focal point was working with colours. It was like acrylic bootcamp. I learned a lot during the whole thing, and I basically modelled my digital painting technique after it. Then, during a feedback session, I had that same teacher tell me I should use the greyscale to colour technique. Lots of mixed messages in that school.
I never really found interest in the coloring grayscale technique since I had no issues starting with color, but I couldn't put my finger on the reason why it was unappealing to me. This video gives pretty good reasons why it's not the best
Agreed with everything you've said in this video. I myself have been using the "gateway" method for a while now, and I'm starting to feel more&more comfortable with direct colors, so I definitely encourage other people to do the same if they're in that same "in-between" spot.
You have a wonderful radio voice! Thanks for the video I’m a gouache & watercolor painter who doesn’t really understand how to paint digitally but have been trying to wrap my head around what ppl are doing when I see a painting start in greyscale & end in color & not understanding why it looks off to me personally. Love the way you paint!
I completely agree with your assessment and feelings on this method. However, i am trying to do a preliminary value sketch before painting, because it helps me make a lot of composition and lighting choices. When I go to color, i start from 'scratch' again. But I have already though about the values, so the color choices come more naturally to mind.
I'm always fascinated by the people that can do grayscale to color because i try to do it and idk why my colors always end up weird and not how i want it, probably because I'm dumb lol🤷♀️
Thank you so much, this video literally instantly changed my life. I’ve painted more pieces I’m happy with in the 24 hours after watching this + your other videos on color than I have in the past three years, it’s like you flipped on the switch in my brain enabling me to paint with color. So glad I decided to click on this
Another thing is that it is possible to paint an image of many colors that literally CANNOT be translated to grayscale. For instance, if you were to use all colors of the same saturation and brightness, they would all converge upon the same shade of gray. So if you think about the reverse of that - to somehow try to paint the grayscale of your image first to color over it later, you literally could not achieve such a thing. To use grayscale is to limit yourself.
I know this video is 4 years old...but really thank you. I knew there was something off with gray-scale painting vs coloring. Ive done both, but I just...didn't feel the same with applying colors to a grayscale. I just...wanted to create color values on the go, as Im coloring on already established colors. I always thought the grayscale to color was the superior method when it comes to painting efficiently, but it does go to sacrificing some value etc. I'm just glad this video exist , that another profession artist prefers to not go with the grayscale method.
yep, totally relatable, the thing with greyscale is it shoul work as a reference, but you need to paint everything again in color. its usefull to have a filter that previews the values of your actual color painting.
I don't know why, but when an artist uses this process, it's very obvious. It rally looks like it was a greyscale drawing with color added, no matter how good the artist is. They lack something.
I use grayscale as a guide, but I hate working with it Soo much that I actually create another painting and using the reference with grayscale, and not in the same painting, because it feels Soo nice to use colors
My solution for this problem has always been the like presented in the video. Stopping on grayscale image as early as possible and then and then moving with color till the end.
I find it really difficult to blend colours naturally in digital and I Struggle with lighting. I'm also accustomed to pencil sketching, so greyscale feels more natural to me. I think greyscale works best it you have a clear image of the completed piece. ( I haven't actually watched the video yet though...so) ☺
But supposing i find more confortable going from greyscale values to color (actually i usually use the gradient map passage too) do you have any video about how to choose the right saturation for the hues?
painting with value and then adding color is only a temporary state in an artists development, meant to help the artist gain a better understanding of value and color both. its not meant to be a technique . Bucci is way past that stage so of course he can now focus fully on his already honed understandings and wield those to shape his expression. many artists just arent at that stage in their development where they know their tools well enough to stand upon them and use them towards their fullest expression. Before you can run and even fly, you have to be able to walk.
Tell that to Bouguereau, Rembrandt and hundreds of other masters that used grisaille (aka starting with monochrome underpainting) all the time. Stop making posts about things you dont understand pls, no clue why this is upvoted so much.
Sorry I had to disagree with you. If you actually worked with AAA company, you'll appreciate this technique as the client will ALWAYS wanted to change things, especially the colours.
I dont think its a temporary state because if you look at other artist like one of the more famous one, ross draws he uses a lot of techniques like grayscale and bunch of other effects but it's the end result that matters to him.
this is because it depends on the art style, if your art is like a painting, then ofc this is not going to work for you, this is a tehnique for the modern ways of drawing and for mutiple layers of work, not for just one layer
Nothing? But even when someone is using facts in their arguments about preferences, some folks take it as a personal attack when they do it a different way, I guess. Re: learning to draw anime before anatomy basics is a bad approach.
What your saying: "This is why I prefer coloring first instead of using grey-scale to color later" What most people are hearing: "I'm a professional and your an idiot for using grey-scale and your art sucks if you use it" Such is the internet.
I kinda like the disconnected, dreamlike feeling of the finished piece. It has its own form of expression. When it comes right down to it, there's no right or wrong way to paint. It feels a little elitist to suggest that the grayscale-to-color workflow is "wrong," somehow, because you don't like it.
I really appreciate this video I've only recently started to try out painting again and I've always had troubles directly painting in color so I decided to go for grey scale first and it kind of gave me this epiphany moment and it wasn't as frustrating for me. I've always had a really hard time with colors, even when doing just line drawings. Now, I'm an animator and I want to eventually go into game art so I think starting out in grey scale but also starting out directly in color both have their respective places. At the moment I want to get the basics of painting down with grey scale, because I feel like it's giving me a good base on the technique and how to THINK during painting and I hope that I can eventually learn colors properly and be less frustrated with those and paint in color directly.
I know I'm two years late, but I'm sorry, this is just a bad lesson. It's just a straight-up inaccurate representation of the process. I mean, this is less of an inherent problem with the grayscale-to-color procedure and more like a fundamental misunderstanding of it, stemming from a combination of the wrong mindset with the wrong workflow. I've seen a number of grayscale and coloring videos from a variety of different artists and, to them, the process you used in the video would probably seem like complete nonsense. The way others approach it is less the arbitrary separation of color from the process and more of a checklist or a series of steps which apply the fundamentals of a painting in an way that facilitates the interaction between them for those who think in more procedural terms. Every artist is different, but that process generally goes like this: 1. Line work (extremely helpful, but not necessary, the semi-sketch method you use at 12:28 is indicative of why, though it's still missing the point) 2. Then grayscale to establish value, form, and rudimentary light (some do most of the light work here, some do it all last) 3. Then flat colors *_beneath_* the value layer (not "glazed" on top of it), with the value then projected on top. 4. Then texturing/detailing/lighting etc. (This is where the "expressiveness"/"fun" happens for a procedural thinker. The idea is to establish the technicalities of a physically accurate image and embellish them afterward. This is also where the most time and consideration would be. The first few steps are supposed to be fast & simple.) In this workflow, the color isn't "reconnected" because the value is applied *_directly to the flat color_* (in one of a few different ways depending on the program, I believe most just make the value layer partially transparent), which is then embellished to fit the artist's desire. An artist who often uses a comparably "brushstroke-y" style to you is Marc Brunet, whose eponymous RU-vid channel better illustrates the grayscale to color procedure because that's what he uses in most of his art (He uses the gradient map that you touched on at 14:02, but that technique is actually only an addition to the correct method and he explains why and how to use it in one of his videos). The reason why your process doesn't work is largely because of your mindset of coloring with form and value already in mind and how it defeats the purpose of the grayscale to color process in the first place. The best example of this mistake is at 7:58. The entire point of doing grayscale first is to conform your flat colors to the shapes and values you've already made. If the coloring step is going to contradict all the work you've already done, then of course you're going to waste time and get an unprofessional result. The point is for the "playfulness" to come after, not destroy the foundations now. (Sidenote: The example at 11:26 is confusingly terrible. In fact, not only is this a bad example of grayscale-to-color, but it's a bad example of the alternative as well. An Abstract painting has no form, texture, or lighting to simulate, so shape, value, and color can be whatever and wherever you want it to be [within your aesthetic intention]. There is no necessary consideration of value whatsoever.) You're creating two whole separate paintings (a complete color on top of a complete grayscale) instead of following a procedure that ends in a unified whole. Essentially, the difference seems to be doing things procedurally vs doing them all at once, which is more of a "left-brain" vs "right-brain" kind of distinction than one of skill or outcome. Which is to say, your misunderstanding of the process isn't exactly to your detriment. Your art style, which is excellent, seems massively informed by this mindset, so there's no reason to learn a different way when you don't need it and it's contrary to how you think. That said, there's also no reason to create a tutorial for a method you don't seem to understand. That might seem presumptuous and rude, and I'm sorry for that, but there's no other way to put it. If this where framed as an alternative way of doing things for those who think more intuitively, then that'd be great, but it's instead presented as an explanation of the actual process when that explanation is fundamentally inaccurate. For someone who thinks *_procedurally,_* you've just presented the method that would work the best for them in a way they could never hope to understand. Think of it this way: It's said that there are two types of writers, "Pants-ers" and "Outliners". Pants-ers write "by the seat of their pants", which is to say they come up with characters and scenarios and just naturally let it play out based on that. Whereas Outliners create an outline informed by the study of story-telling and structure, and loosely follow that outline to keep their writing focused and effective (the key here, being that the outline is not, itself, the finished product, but a guide for it). It could be said that outlining "takes the fun and natural progression of events" out of your writing, but that thought fails to understand that both types of writers are essentially doing the same thing in different ways: No good outliner writes without consideration for character and they are always prepared to defy the outline when necessary. Likewise, no pantser produces fully-formed ideas through stream of conscience alone, their "outline" still exists in the form of a first draft. So it is with this distinction between these coloring methods. For example, the idea at 15:53 of starting with neutrals and working your way to better colors is essentially the same as projecting value onto flats and then embellishing. You even used a simple sketch to first establish the shape before roughly filling it with a basic color. Grayscale-to-color is the same thing but just going in discrete stages. There might theoretically be some spontaneity lost for the sake of consistency, but for those that find procedure more understandable, the alternative isn't spontaneity, it's the total inability to produce a coherent piece, which robs them of both motivation and the ability to practice putting the fundamentals together. (It's also worth noting that, as skill increases, the distinction between different types of artists naturally blurs as you intuitively incorporate aspects of both methods. For beginners [the audience of this video] however, hearing one type misrepresent the best process for the other is the least helpful thing they can be told). As a result, this video is like a Pants-er saying "outlining is pointless, because you have to keep changing the outline as you make it in order to tell your story" and then teaching that to a writing class. Not only is this a fundamental misunderstanding of the outlining process, but that misunderstanding is derived from being the opposite type of writer. Anyone who is naturally an Outliner, but doesn't know that yet, will immediately think that writing is inherently beyond their ability to understand, when in reality their teacher was making the mistake of trying to "add" outlining (or in our case, grayscaling) to a process which didn't necessitate it and inevitably concluding that it must then be pointless. I'm sorry for the novel and the negativity therein, but to me, as someone who considers you one of the best artists and teachers on RU-vid (which is saying something), this lesson was unusually unhelpful. I know you don't owe anything to the audience, I'm not trying to say that you do, but this video was created specifically to teach and, not only does it not teach effectively, but it actively confuses the subject for a certain segment of its viewers without them realizing it. The only reason I was even able to realize this myself was because I'm sort of naturally in between intuitive and procedural in a way that I don't observe most to be at my lower level of skill and was able to understand both what you were saying and why it made no sense. Anyway, if you happen to read this comment on a two year old video, those are my thoughts. Even if you completely disregard them, I'll still watch your content and try to improve my own work with it.
depending on preference i guess. Your style is kinda messy - impresionic. Hard lines , shapes - Ao and color and all that stuff make it more precise but - cg looking. I think ill go whenevar i want and use what i want.
It all really comes to preference though. I just stick to colors because I can envision my character's identity and personality just by the color itself and don't have to pressure myself with the shading (because I suck at shading lol). Thank you for the video btw.
