@@Tankindankincamnot entirely, boiler tubes do need overhaul after 10 years or less and you'll need money to keep them running for generations, sometimes locos just take a long static rest before being run again but as long as you have a willing team of people and lots of money to burn you can get any loco going again (provided if the parts are completely knackered)
Hi Anthony. Green Arrow hauled the first train over the Settle and Carlisle line following the lifting of the steam ban. I was a coach steward on the train. I still have the tie they gave us. They did a presentation to Bill Harvey on the journey. I will have to dig out the photos.
I remember seeing Green Arrow at the NRM when I was little (granted I can’t remember it well but I know it was there). It’s a nice loco and I’m planning to visit it in Doncaster this summer if I get the chance.
I can't wait for this. Honestly, I've never heard of this engine and barely anything on the V2s apart from someone mentioning them whiles talking about the 2-8-2 p2's but that's it.
Mallard.. Flying Scotsman.. Sir Nigel Gresley.. Union Of South Africa.. Etc.. Green 💚 Arrow... belongs among some of the Greatest locomotives 🚂 of all time.. Hall of fame..👍🏻 Very beautiful locomotive 🚂.. 💚 Curator with the camera 📸 is the best.. 👍🏻 So very educational.. Worth watching.. 👍🏻
Brilliant video, I do recognise the cab, as I cabbed Flying Scotsman on the KWVR a couple weeks ago which is my profile picture. I do like the NRM and hope that the V2 comes back on the rails. I also must visit the Danum next time I get the train to Donny
I've always had a soft spot for Green Arrow ever since my earliest visits to the NRM as a small child around 1989-1990*, I remember its apple green standing out as a nice colour triad with Mallard's blue and Duchess of Hamilton's red. I'm slightly sad it doesn't live at York with them any more, though I understand you can't put every loco there! Plus if it was built in Doncaster, then it makes sense that Doncaster should be where it spends its retirement. * was also fun to have Green Arrow be the loco that makes friends with Thomas in Thomas and the Great Railway Show, nice to see it get the spotlight there.
My dad was born and brought up about a mile from Doncaster Railway station and works. His favourite engine class was the Green Arrow. In the last days of steam, we lived near Nottingham and you occasionally saw one at Nottingham Victoria Station, running expresses to Marylebone, instead of the ubiquitous Black Fives. Despite the shortened boiler, compared to Gresley A1/3 Pacifics, they were more powerful than all except A3s with 20" cylinders. A remarkably elegant design.
Green Arrow was a premium freight, not parcels, service Customers paid a premium and a Green Arrow sticker was stuck on the label of the wagon to which the premium applied; when a freight train left its starting point, a telegram - from memory it stated "STRAN TAGUS GREEN ARROW - - - " was sent to the destination point for that service stating the wagon numbers to which the premium applied, and their ultimate destinations. On arrival at the end destination for that particular freight service (say Toton), priority was given to the wagons during sorting and for inclusion in an ongoing service - if the next ongoing service towards the ultimate destination was limited by length or weight, the Green Arrow wagons took precedence over others.
I grew up in South Wales so never saw V2s,however,September 1966 self and brother were passengers on a railtour;Euston-Aberdeen-Kings Cross.Over the Waverley route behind V2 60836,unforgettable,she had the three puffs and a pause exhaust beat which were all part of the V2 style.
Nice looking locomotive. I was lucky to get a guided tour of the footplate by a chap at Locomotion back in 2017. He was very good at explaining the basics of how to drive the thing.
Fresh from a visit to Danum library, I’ve just seen this beautiful locomotive in person. I might’ve seen it in my youth, but this is the first time in years. It still has that LNER charm and looks very nice next to No.251(which I would also like a Curator with a camera episode on).
5:39 I do this to 60008 when I visit her once every year with my son, that iconic “ring” from tapping my metal Deutsche Reichsbahn builders plate on her buffers, god I love that sound.
It's sad that this is the only one preserved. Compare with the number of LMS Black 5s that were preserved; the LNER is sadly underrepresented in preservation.
Ultimately comes down to Woodham Brothers Scrapyard, the place where many preserved locos were rescued from, being in Barry, South Wales - the opposite end of the country from the LNER's stamping ground. 98 GWR locos were rescued from there, 41 Southern Railway locos, 38 Standard Classes, 35 LMS locos (including six Black Fives)... and one LNER loco, the Thompson B1 61264. The irony is, the LNER were probably the best of the Big Four at consciously preserving their history - the National Collection is based in York because it was an outgrowth of the LNER's own collection after all, and they even preserved City of Truro after the GWR decided it wasn't worth preserving. Trouble is, "preserving" often meant just keeping the most notable example of the class and scrapping the rest.
That is in my home city. I visit it at least once nearly every week. Thanks for letting Donny have a couple of engines. It was about time we had some here. I know The C1 is probably too old to steam again now, but I hope one day you decide to steam Green Arrow again. I would love to ride behind a V2, as I always admired them.
Great and very informative video as always. She’s certain a beaut is GA, hopefully one day she’ll be back out on the road but I’m glad for now she’s securely stored for folk to enjoy 🙂
Hands down, my favourite loco. If a funding drive was set up for this engine, I would happily add to it, as would many I think. Just need to availably to do so. I know the A1 trust have sent over their cylinder casting information to you. However,as you say in these comments, you are looking for a like for like. The technology is there, as it's been done before, just need to work back from what we have. Must be away to 3d scan the original block to create a basis to work from. Maybe cast 2 for insurance.
I think it was Archibald Sturrock who had come to the GNR from the GW and was impressed by the 'BG' (broad gauge) wide firebox. I noticed this clearly on the first model loco I built from scratch-a GN Large Atlantic back in 1966.
This museum must never repaint her drivers, they are testament to the V2 class, a indicator that shows every visitor that this proud GRESLEY built machine once steamed back in 2008. Have a good rest Green Arrow, we miss you on the mainline.
To be honest, completely forgot about the V2 class. Every time I take America’s Mallard out for runs, the only LNER Steam I think of is: A4s, W1, A3s, B17s and the P2s.
Great video. Gresley has not been well served by preservation. Only one V2, not in working order, and only one A3 (the record breaker 2750 Papyrus was cut up).
The US designers couldn't make a well-balanced 2-6-2. They tried before the turn of the century, but the wheel arrangement became a light, slow freight engine.
It was Churchward on the GWR who copied much American practce (as well as French), both in coaching stock and locomotives; look at all his Prairie 2-6-2 wheel arrangements.
The P2 Loco trust has just had a mono blog cylinder built for Prince of Wales so could the NRM not get one made for Green Arrow. I know the the Green Arrows was a different design but it could done. I would love to see her in steam again and remember her pulling the special train from Carnforth to York back the the 1970's. It was a wonderful trip. we also had Flying Scotsman and Sir Nigel Gresley on this trip each loco taking part did each part of the trip.
It could be done, we have the drawings. Cost is a major issue, which is why we'd need a partner to even consider it. Unlike the P2, we would seek a like for like replacement with a new casting rather than a fabrication.
@@anthonycoulls7301 aside from the pattern I thought one of the reasons for its overhaul being put off was because it's an original LNER cast block and the NRM wanted to keep it on Green Arrow.
It would be great to see Green Arrow run again but the issue is what would take it's place in Doncaster & where would it be overhauled as the NRM's workshop has become wonderlab (no idea why they shut it as the works was the one place where people could see work being done on locos). Riley's would be the best place as they performed amazingly on the A3 & would make sure the V2's overhaul would cost nowhere near as much as it did with Scotsman, could've overhauled 3 or 4 locos with what got spent just to fix the A3 which was around 3 or 5 million.
Thank you very much for this interesting video about one of the most elegant british steam locos. But what about the future of this loco ? It would be great to be behind this loco on the main line again. Best wishes Dirk
One option might be a fabricated Monoblock similar to what the p2 will have, even with one off castings a new Monoblock casting will be very expensive, the 100 dollar question, will the NRM allow it, or insist on like for like replacement personally , i would love for 4771 to go on loan to the A1 Trust after POW is finished, they have a track record of being able to raise funds and tornado has shown they are competent. and the NRM, allow them to go with the fabricated cylinder design, it would have merit on an educational front, because it would show how modern day methods are changing how we maintain old historic items.
Last time I saw her was in Stewarts Lane shed early one morning. I had come off night shift at Euston Station c.!970 and I was watching from a Victoria to Herne Hill train.
A good video, thank you. It is a great shame that this locomotive is not operable and the NRM should look at this. The cast block containing the cylinders could by replicated by the using the technique used on the P2, or the locomotive could have separate cylinders as many of them did later in their careers. I understand that the NRM is against this and does not want the Green Arrow to run again, Sad!
British cars drive on the left hand side of the road, therefore drivers sit on the right to have best visibility of oncoming traffic and such like that. Locomotives are still driven on the left of the railway, however signals are put on the left hand side of the track, in the cess, for easier connection so signal boxes, no need to run the signalling equipment under the track if it can be avoided. And as it’s the engineers job to respond to signals, he needs to be in a position to see them best, that being the left hand side of the train
And in the USA, road vehicles are driven from the left hand side, but railway vehicles are driven from the right side. The opposite of current British practice. When Britain had many railway companies, some drove on the left side, but other drove from the right. For signaling purposes it is better to standardize the operating position. In Victoria, Australia the broad gauge railway was driven from the left side, but the narrow gauge railways were driven from the right. The first narrow gauge engines were built by Baldwin in the US so were right hand drive and so the locally built engines copied that. When two additional engines were bought in 1926 from Beyer Peacock & co. Ltd. Manchester, England (Garratt engines G41 & G42) they were also right hand drive.
@@johnjephcote7636 the GWR was just flat out weird and the practice of driving from the right side was not practiced by any other railway during the grouping era if I am correct
It would need extensive boiler repairs and the cylinders to be replaced, but that's not impossible if someone were to come to us with a funded proposal and business case
If in the future the money could be found to steam Green Arrow again, one of the early considerations would be if they should abandon the original monoblock design and construct the cylinder block a different way that remains faithful to its original dimensions.
There's a "swings and roundabouts" aspect to it - the V2 had more power, but that power came at a cost of higher axleloading that ruined the "go anywhere" part of "go anywhere, do anything". Saying that, as long as they stuck to the main lines V2s were capable of heroic perfomances, particularly during WW2. Thompson's B1 is probably more of a direct LNER comparison to the Black Five, and a good 400-odd of those were built. Ultimately, comparisons are odious - they're all great locomotives, speaking as someone who often prefers mixed traffic locos to express engines.
Good video but come on NRM as a ex friend of over 25 years you need to get back on track ,workshops converted to a kids play area ,really !!! me thinks you need real rail people running this national treasure ,not just box tickers
When you are gonna overhaul Green Arrow? If you don't overhaul Mallard and Evening Star, it's fine, Sir Nigel Gresley is on the mainline, Bittern is awaiting overhaul, other 9Fs are operational on heritage lines. But Green Arrow is a sole survivor of a great design, she deserves to be out on the mainline hauling railtours again
@@robertwilloughby8050 what's the diffrence between the monoblock on green arrow and the one been made for the p2 prince of Wales as could there mouldings be used or is it completely diffrent again
@@chillingwolf It's not quite the same dimensions, the theory is the same, but not in practice. However, you do make a good point, and maybe a bit of sharing of resources might push forward a solution.🙂
You know... maybe you should let it run instead of stuffing it like a dead animal. Honestly, I find the national collection kind of revolting. Yes, it's nice to have big facilities to store these locomotives and keep them out of the elements. But what is a steam engine without a fire in it? A hunk of inanimate metal.
I'd rather have this then see them all being cut up for scrap, stuffed and mounted in the elements outside stations ect If you actually understand how a steam engine works, the stresses, strained and costs to keep them safe and operational, certainly in this day and age, maybe you'd have a better understanding of why "static" is not a dirty word.. I find your lack of knowledge revolting
It's on our operating strategy which means we're open to the idea of it running again. However that would require a costed business plan and much discussion - but we're not against it.
Green Arrow was preserved because it was the first built, and still had the monobloc. I’m always quite surprised that the other 183 V2’s got scrapped. Now the monobloc is cracked it can’t be replaced. Only chance of steaming it is having a new triple block manufactured, which purists don’t want, in case the original knackered monobloc gets lost?
I would like to see this wonderful engine back in steam. but even as a static display Green arrow is still a beautiful example of British locomotive engineering.
This begs the question, if Flying Scotsman is still loved and respected even if only a tiny handful of her original 1923 parts remain on her chassis. Why can't Green Arrow be the same with getting a new Triple Block? True neither loco would be 100% original, but still deeply respected.
@@exveefan 7 heads and 6 handles but still the same broom. I would not disagree with you but some would. In service there were many mix and match instances like boilers being rotated between several locomotives. I'd like to see Green Arrow steam again. If a new monoblock were to be cast, the original could form an exhibit of its own.
@@emmabird9745 even if weld could repair it, the entire set of cylinders and valves is out of alignment, meaning that there's 1/8" of material on one side and 7/8" on the other, so re-boring, sleeving and lining is not possible.
@@rudycarlson8245 Ye i think its in the 15 year plan nrm did in 2019. if you search on google green arrow overhaul you get two rail advent listings. one about its move to Doncastor and another of a 15 year plan. But has its on loan atm if it does get overhauled it wont be anytime soon. still got another year of the loan and well we all know how long it can take to overhaul these locos.
