Greg Gagne - The Biggest Mistake AWA Wrestling Made 

Berserker & Nails as the AWA Outsiders in 92. Razor is 3rd guy! NWO 0.0 aka The AWA in summer 1992 begins. Former awa guys (and gals) are still disgruntled WF put their AWA out: slaughter as AWA President, Perfect as executive VP, managers: Sensational Sherry & Gen Adnan. Wrestlers: Razor the leader, Nails, Berserker, knobbs, Saggs, hbk.

Besides better broadcast

WWF didn't improve their production quality until they partnered with NBC. NBC really thought WrestleMania was straight archaic because it was.

They had a bigger Budget.

It is a little impressive the toxic masculinity lineup wpix had in early 1980's though. GI Joe, bad yankees era games and now find out AWA pro wrestling...and old twilight zone episodes

@@davidporter7051Interesting. On FOX I thought it began 1986 or so, but wwf had quite well produced show Saturday on wwor, until abruptly cancelled for that maids show and maybe Bosom buddies.

It helped that the WWF had a lock on the nations biggest market in NYC

Don’t forget they pioneered everything that came before and made million ,so they had the intellect .. but like anything a young guy with the money and vision had a batter understanding of where it was going to go next ..

The AWA had done this before. 10 years earlier there was this new wrestling sensation from England named Billy Robinson. He was electric to watch and Minneapolis loved him. The problem was that if Verne put the belt on Billy not even Verne was man enough to take it off him if Billy wanted to keep it. At that exact time, we had the original Hulk Hogan, Superstar Billy Graham. Graham had been used as a transitional champion by Vince Sr. which was a mistake in hindsight but that was the blueprint up until then. If you remember in Hulk Hogan's book he credits Greg for helping him get booked in the Minnesota territory. (Hogan being a Florida boy) Once in the AWA Verne and Greg both listened to the crowds and started turning Hogan face and taught him skills that he would later use in the WWF. It is my understanding that the AWA had an agreement with CBS two years before a deal with ESPN that would make Hulk Hogan the AWA world champion. He would then face off with the champions of Japan, Canada, Mexico England, Germany, and France. (Jumbo Tsruda, Rick Martel, Mil Mascaras, Billy Robinson, Otto Wanz, and newly crowned AWA French Champion Andrea The Giant.) Verne had a strong relationship with Andrea through Edwardo Carpentier. Andrea wrestled in the AWA territory back in 1970. The culmination of this tournament which did not require any participation from the WWWF or the NWA would crown the first true worldwide wrestling champion and be booked as Verne Gagne's "SuperBowl of Wrestling" and played live on CBS on free TV. This agreement by deal memo would be executed in April and could not be discussed. Had Hogan kept his commitments through December and not ran out of the AWA only to appear on WWF television in January, wrestling itself would have looked very different. We would have gotten a younger Andrea still managed by Bobby Heenan. And Jesse Ventura on the announce team. And maybe a young Eric Bischoff waiting in the wings for his opportunity.

I think they fall into thinking, even up until recently,, that the audience is traditional blue collar and poor,, and thought middle upper class don't watch it, or it's tough audience to cater to. You could be right though, carny force is strong in them.

"The automobile is just a fad, people love their horses too much to give them up".

Lets not forget that the AWA was on ESPN from 1985-1990. Vince had just gotten Hogan on cable in 1984. The early AWA shows on ESPN were very good. A big part of the problem was that they did not have a regular prime time TV show. I remember going through the TV guides back in the day to see when it would be on every week.

@@HepCatJack Said nobody ever.

In the early 80's, if you remember, cable was still very new. Yes, those that had it thought it was great, but my family didn't have it & a lot of working class families didn't. There was usually one kid on the block or in the neighborhood who did, but if you weren't friends with them, tough luck. TV was still king in those days. Now, that changed rapidly, BUT what Greg says is understandable. The biggest issue for AWA was financial. Verne was a great wrestler, not a businessman. And Vince had no morals -- as we all see for a fact now -- so there was nothing he wouldn't do to put everybody else out of business. It was great for WWF, but the end of the territories was a shame.

The problem was Verne himself, not telling Terry his plans for the title if indeed true. As well as the whole debacle with the t shirt merchandise situation. Those are 2 of the biggest things that caused Hulk to return to the then WWF in December of '83.

@@stevejamieson8468 Agreed...

@@stevejamieson8468Verne had no plans to put the belt on a non wrestler like Hogan, Verne was stubborn and set in his ways

@@johnkolko5199 That was one of the reasons why Terry went back to the WWF. He was super over with the AWA fans, they wanted him to be champion. They almost rioted when the AWA pulled what is known as a Dusty Finish in one of his matches against Nick. Vince Jr had heard how over Terry was in the AWA, and knew that Terry could be the one to help take his company national.

@@stevejamieson8468 Japan cut too.

Do you regret that?

You mean you watched the empty studio matches because they could not afford to pay the bills at Calhoun Beach Center?

Sure

Or Mr T

No doubt..

Story is, if Hogan wouldn’t of worked out, it would of been Dusty.

@@wethriveIn425LOL, Dusty is a legend but he was never that guy as much as Cornette and his fans like to spout across the net.

He also knew how to traffick people so he was ahead of the game of how to use and abuse whoever he wanted

Joe Blanchard was able to get Southwest Championship Wrestling on USA before Vince did with the WWF, so he knew that cable was going to change things. The ESPN deal Verne made was bad since it was not treated like the crown jewel that USA did with WWF and TBS did with the NWA.

@@paddydoublems Vince was way ahead of everyone with the slick production and use of computer graphics. It looked so much cooler than everyone else since they basically taped the shows the same way. I remember the AWA on ESPN and it was pretty much the same as the Saturday show.

Hogan still would have left, with the belt, to WWF. McMahon would have had to pay Hogan more. From what I understand Verne was going to put the belt on Hogan, but couldn't at the time because he had Bockwinkel contracted to defend the AWA title in Japan. After Bockwinkel got back the title was going to switch. But Hogan left before any of that happened.

​@@emptyhand777 no. Gagne would never put the Belt on Hogan that is why he kept the bait and switch every time Hogan won the title it went back to Bockwinkle.

@@davidporter7051 - or maybe he did the bait and switch because of the contracted Bockwinkel matches in Japan. Hogan chasing the belt was selling out all over. It makes sense the big payoff was coming. At the end if the day neither of us know for sure.

@@emptyhand777 it's been confirmed Gagne would only make Hogan Champ if Hogan paid him Hogan's merchandise royalities and it would have been after 1983. Knowing any one who isn't a mouth breather would never agree to forego hundreds of thousands of dollars in 1980's money Gagne knew Hogan wouldn't agree. Plus Hogan was a bigger draw with Inoki than Bockwinkle that theory makes no sense

@@davidporter7051 - I don't think Hogan and Bockwinkel both competed with Antonio Inoki. IIRC the AWA was affiliated with the other Japan wrestling company.

Fairytale

@ose-kt1nu I don't believe that story either

watch his eyes. Constantly looking towards your right means you one is imagining things.

@@davidporter7051 What about looking towards your left?

@@BuddyRose-kt1nu I don't believe in magic

You are aware that Cable TV was not available everywhere, in 1980? Not having cable may not have been a symptom, but it could have been the only possibility.

Didn't the AWA have a television contract with ESPN? What do you mean "no cable"?

@@danielboom72 guess he's talking about verne's house.

@@curthennig9448 🤣

Hogan was already long gone when Martel had the strap. Keeping the belt on that fossil Bockwinkle was the mistake

​@@danielboom72partly true and even false. Bokwinkel was a draw. Hogan got over as a solid babyface. Removing the belt from bokwinkel would have anyways affected AWA. So they couldn't. AWA was primarily stuck in the past. Nobody saw Hogan as a big deal back then. Vinces gambles did wonders for him. Let it be Hogan, Warrior or even John Cena. I remember seeing Cena in early 2003 and never in my dreams I thought that Cena would be the biggest star of WWE later. I doubt Verne or anyone saw that in Hogan.

@@afdcg Bockwinkle was done being a draw by then bro. They clung to him way too long. How could you not see Hogan as a draw? He did Rocky III in 82 and he shot to the moon after that. He drew close to 30,000 in Bloomington with Hogan on the card. Verne dropped the ball on that one. 100% true. Nothing false about my comments at all.

@@danielboom72 Bokwinkel was still a draw a for AWA. Maybe you are a little delusional on that. About Hogan, I don't know whether he was selling out big on his merit. He surely was quite over and fresh. I do agree that Nick mostly had to drop the belt but no one even later was a draw that Nick was for AWA. Hogan became bigger only after going to WWF by the marketing machine. Not saying he wouldn't be successful in AWA. AWA was more of a territory and WWF was more into going national and international later. AWA in general would have never been successful in the longer run with Hogan or not.

The George Gulas of the North!

@@johnkolko5199 😂😂😂

Y'all heard about Ole Anderson? He kicked the bucket about an hour or two ago.

@@snoplau9994 Rock Rogowski trained by Verne Gagne in 1966.

He meant Feb. 1984, not 1983. I don't believe the CBS contact either.

@@curthennig9448 ok but by 84 Hogan had been gone over a year

@@GameTime-yj6qv Hogan's last AWA appearance was on Nov. 14,1983 in Phoenix. He then left for a 3 and a half week tour of Japan. Greg says CBS contacted them in December while Hogan was gone. Highly unlikely that CBS was aware that Hogan was over huge in the AWA, let alone to give them a quarterly show.

@@curthennig9448 yup. And that's right I had my years confused.

Only in Texas though where they were brainwashed by Fritz.

Absolutely!

Facts

you clearly have never watched the AWA matches with Hogan, he was so over that Vince immediately put the title on him. Who can come into a territory and in their first match win the title and immediately triple the houses - not a single one. He was that over in the AWA and that powerful an entity in wrestling that he could come back to the WWF after three years and straight change the game forever

It already was exploding in the AWA

​@@1980Triumphand what was Verne's vision with Hulk Hogan? Keep the championship belt on Nick Bockwinkel. Verne had the golden goose. Yet Verne failed to see the world of pro wrestling was changing.

Love him or hate him Vince was the best promoter of our lifetime

None of them did. All the promotions looked like they were stuck in the 60s. Jim Crockett was a little bit smarter. He was pushing guys like The Road Warriors and Nikita. He knew things were changing.

Speaking of stalking, do you now post this same comment in every Greg Gagne video?

​@@davel7791 I have been. Does it bother you?

@@PulverizerA Yes. It shows an unhealthy obsession with the issue, in my opinion.

@@davel7791 I don't understand your self described "unhealthy obsession" with my posting the same thought on youtube videos. If it bothers you, all you have to do is not read it. Hope that helps. God bless ya.

@@PulverizerA You have the obsession, brother. It’s a bit weird. (Are you a relative or friend of Greg?) I recommend you stop it. If you want to respond to individual posts about Greg that you disagree with, you should do that.

The hatred for Greg on the internet is highly irrational, hypocritical and plain ignorant. Has he told some tall tales? Sure, but so has your favorite worker. That's why they're called 'workers.' It's just because of the bullshit overload of WWE propaganda over the years that it's somehow different and worse when it comes from Greg. Greg never said he created the nWo. The interview is still on YT and it's pretty clear. He claims he came up with an invasion angle taking old AWA talent led by Hogan vs. NWA talent led by Flair. It wasn't a very good idea IMO, but it's a far cry from saying that he claimed he actually created the nWo. But self serving workers like Nash and Bischoff were in such a rush to defend themselves they didn't actually hear what they said. And yes, Greg had a terrible physique and was Verne's son. But the fact was that he was over (and was a good worker to boot). And there were many promoters' kids that were in the business that couldn't get over anywhere near the level just like there were plenty of workers with outstanding physiques that couldn't get over anywhere the level that Greg got over. And in this very interview Greg states that he just wasn't the guy to ever be considered to be a world champ because he was too small. But the marks would rather believe that Bischoff was really this genius despite running WCW into the ground and that Kevin Nash was really screwed over while being WWF champ despite being the worst drawing WWF champ at the time.

or maybe Paul Roma.

Bockwinkle was a huge draw for them

@@doubles7533 surprisingly

@@doubles7533Tv draw can be different formula, least nationally

I was perfect!

@@curthennig9448 perfect jobber

It might have been slow burn vs instant etc manias. Was kind of dumb by 1989 in mainstream, self harmed.

"Talk about..." "What are your memories..." "Ohhh....OK OK OK..." You can see why guys like Sean Oliver & Conrad Thompson passed this guy by pretty easily

Tv channels, NBC specifically then FOX, bailed him out of failing hard at least twice. He dd better version of AWA and slicker, dumber version of ecw is all he did. One thing he made was Warrior and kicked to curb for being REAL American capitalist lol

Vince would have been an even bigger hit in the Porn industry.