@@dud5606 ye, but i feel this way about the spiker too, to me, the spiker and the brute shot just are brute weapons, gravity hammer is their melee. Really hope all of those come back, since there isn't really a spiker, the harpoon gun is for hitting vehicles, hitting a spartan with it is really difficult. so those 3 weapons, plus harpoon gun and the raveger seem like a perfect banished arsenal to me
Despite being a Reach kid myself, Halo Reach's grenade launcher has only recently taken spot as my number one favorite weapon in the entire series. I never statyed using it until Reach was added to MCC. It is extremely fun and rewarding to learn and use. I rate it 10/10 lobbed projectiles. Edit: more words Edit 2: WAIT ONE PATTY FLIPPIN MINUTE, THE ACTUAL WEAPON NAMED "GRENADE LAUNCHER" ISN'T EVEN IN THE VIDEO!
@@killerpineapple5836 I always forget about that weapon! It's so rare to find in campaign or on multiplayer maps, and it isn't the best power wise. It's like right in between rocket launcher and concussion gun for anti player and anti vehicle. It looks and sounds very cool tho
Haha listening back through my script, I totally forgot to mention this was a two part thing. I do think I mention this being part of a series in the beginning tho. Yeah the literal Grenade Launcher (and the sticky det) get discussed next.
Most weapons fit into the “shoot bullet” category, which only has so much flexibility in design. But GLs present 3 different variables. Projectile speed, explosion damage, and explosion effects The brute shot bounce is different than the concussion rife, the concussion rifle’s explosion effect is different, and the plasma caster’s explosion damage is more unique. These variables can be dynamic and variable in the different launchers which have different sandbox impacts.
I think another reason why people don’t like the concussion rifle (especially in halo reach) is because in campaign the enemy Ai have insane high damage when they use it. But when you use it, it barely does any damage.
This is why I liked the brute shot, It was no one shot, but it could hold its own and is a wonderful combo with a Beam Rifle/Sniper Rifle due to it being a very good "Get the hell away!" tool, and also for the gauss hog that teleports behind you in every BTB Halo 3 match ever.
Some of the things you mentioned about weapon functions in this video are exactly why I’m a huge advocate for weapon variants returning like in halo 5. In arena maps where they were used as power weapons it was really fun to find suppressed AR’s, bayonet dmr’s, or plasma pistols that created black holes. I think players were way too harsh on this feature and that we will unfortunately never see it again but it really added to the variety of the sandbox.
@My 7th account ya if you go back on there now in arena modes some maps will have variants. Roaming king is on there rn and it has a few maps with them.
I always loved the Plasma Caster, reminded me of Reach's plasma launcher but useful, never caught the connection to the Concussion Rifle though. I think what I enjoyed most about the caster was how both its fire modes were extremely useful, just in different situations. The single shot is great at dealing with single Spartans at close to mid range and the charged shot in perfect for ambushing groups of players and disabling vehicles.
@@jackmcmorrow9397 it did. Wayy back in halo ce when it was in development. There is gameplay footage of it. Heck the dig site crew is restoring it for the official version of mod tools. Clearly you didn’t do any reading or research
@@jackmcmorrow9397 no. This one was removed. There were 2 ars. The one with flashlight had 42 rounds while the grenade launcher one had 45 rounds. Just see the vids for halo ce development. Its clear
For the viewer question I think that the grenade launcher class is so apt for experimentation because it isn't core to the Halo experience, it was brought into Halo as a personification of the Brutes as much as a weapon in its own right and then it was adjusted to rebalance itself as a weapon now that the Brutes were already established. Then the Brutes lost their limelight so Halo Reach and later 4 had a full mandate to change it up when they converted it into a mainline covenant weapon and by the time we reached Halo 5 then Infinite it had been changed up so much it was ordinary and normal to change it up so noone batted an eyelid at 343 doing just that
I think the niche a grenade launcher fills is why it’s evolved so much. The grenade launcher class constantly leans either anti-player or anti-vehicle focused depending on the iteration and it’s function is altered to fit the sandbox. Guns like the smg are always going to be anti-player focused and have unwritten rules in how they’re supposed to function. This removes a lot of room for experimentation that the grenade launcher has. The grenade launcher can have any range or damage type it wants as it dances between the anti-vehicle based and anti-player based of the game and doesn’t need to dominate either meta to be effective.
One thing I liked about the brute shot/ brute weapons in general was that in odst, the melee damage buff made a huge difference in whether you'd have to melee something once or three times.
I miss my brute shot so much and would adore seeing it again in Infinite. The concussion rifle always left a bad taste in my mouth. I never used it much in multiplayer but in campaign Elites/brutes would absolutely destroy you with it, but as soon as you use on them, it's like a confetti gun.
Now we know about the Cindershot. I really like that one. Goes back to the bouncing projectiles of the very first Bruteshot. Also, is the Sticky Detonator not considered a grenade launcher?
Something I haven't seen people pick up on is the Ravager also has special melee utility. The melee hits do extra damage, to the point where if even a SINGLE shot in the Ravager's burst connects, a melee will finish off that player. In close range you can pull the trigger at an enemy and then immediately press the melee button and get a effective instant kill... with that said, to go on a tangent, while I am 200% in favor of giving weapons unique functions beyond just high DPS output, I think it's important that guns BOTH have unique functions and mechanics as well as being at least good at killing, even if it's not "great" at it. For example, most people laud the Plasma pistol as a gun with a useful non lethal niche, but those same people tend to praise CE's balancing, where the Plasma Pistol also did decent damage in it's own right, even if other guns were better for damage output.
I always hated the concussion rifle in reach. It was absolutely the worst weapon to fight against in pve and just wasn’t satisfying to use in multiplayer. Also, I felt like the concussion rifle was more of a (annoying) damage dealer than a function weapon, because man, that thing sat up there with heavy weapons! Honestly my ideal nade launcher would be the: Halo 2 brute shot melee and ammo count, damage of and speed of Halo 3 Brute shot and the disruption and ammo count of the concussion rifle. Oh and the Halo 2 Brute Shot bouncy! Can’t forget the bouncy! Bouncy important!
Honestly, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Hydra from Halo 5 coming back for Infinite. I always thought it was one of the coolest weapons they added and I'm super excited to see how it plays in Infinite.
I miss the scattershot, I loved the tracking when bouncing off of walls. A staple of holding the line at the middle on husky raid 😆. Also I want husky raid playlist by year 2 god damn it
I think the evolution came from setting. Halo 2's brute shot was meant as THE quintessential brute weapon in Halo 2, whereas in 3 since the player is fighting almost entirely brutes, that many brute shots would've been oppressive. Which is why they were probably given their own AR of sorts in the spiker. In Reach, since brutes weren't but a small part of that game, the brute shot's niche needed to be filled by an elite equivalent, and thus the concussion rifle. After that, I doubt there was much thought put into the "why" of certain weapons appearing, disappearing, or morphing into something we didn't recognize beyond "we want to distinguish ourselves from bungie". I would VERY much like to see the Brute shot return in Infinite. From what we've seen in the sandbox, I don't think it would be too redundant. And even if it was, by all means they don't have to spawn on the same maps, or appear in the same areas of the campaign. Food for thought, I feel this way about a lot of (if not all) of the classic weapons. But the Halo 2 Brute Shot would be a fantastic addition to the game's multiplayer, if only excluding the (albeit situational) 1HK aerial melee.
God I hope the Plasma Caster returns in Infinite. I don't like many things from H5, but some of the weapons like the Caster have such a unique and fun play style.
You forgot an important part for the concussion rifle and brute shot. They both were tools to help players in “advanced movement”. An example is you want to get to a higher ledge while crouch jumping shoot a brute shot underneath to get a higher ground advantage. If the bring unique weapons like these back with similar functions, that’ll be pretty cool
The thing I liked about the GLs in Halo is that they were a middle ground between a plasma grenade+Plasma Pistol, and a power weapon (Rocket Launcher, Spartan Laser, Fuel Rod Gun, Incineration Cannon) in terms of rarity and lethality. If you couldn’t find a power AT weapon and cannot get into a position where you can use another method of dealing with vehicles, the GLs will give you a way of dealing with them without displacing the more rare power weapons in the hierarchy.
Also, in Halo 2 if you played as an Elite the Brute shot swung twice as fast compared to a spartan. Oddly enough if I recall spartans can melee twice as fast with the shotgun.
I believe it's because of their variables, you can mess with explosion damage, impac damage, explosion ratio, ammo capacity, dmps and recharge time, so each one can be tweaked allowing for experimentation without risking over balance or over powering. Take for example snipers, they have remained the same cause their nich doesn't seem to be to expandable (although that's debatable) but they are so stagnated that so far their ammo capacity, range and way of using remains practically the same
I think they're so versatile because you can do so much more with a gl than for example a shotgun. Like a shotgun will always be a short(ish) range high(ish) damage infantry weapon, meanwhile a gl can be an anti vehicle weapon or an infantry weapon. It can be bouncy or it can detonate on impact. You can just do a lot with gls
You forgot to mention that the plasma caster from Halo 5 can lock onto vehicles when charged and aimed down sights. The charged plasma homes in like a hydra shot.
Grenade launchers are fun weapons to design because they do not work like anything in real life, so as long as they serve a function, they are free to do whatever they need. Does a grenade launcher stick to surfaces and then explode? Sure, why not! Does it cause an EMP to vehicles? Yeah, that sounds fun. By giving themselves freedom in the form and function of the design, they allowed themselves to iterate on it over and over, each of them fun and interesting to use. Try designing your own version that sounds fun, and you'll realise the scope of what you can do when you're not tied down to realistic expectations of "this is a rifle" or "it shoots rockets".
I hope we see both the classic halo 2 combat bouncing brute shot and utilitly of the halo reach utility concussion rifle both return as they fill very different and unique rolls
About your question, I think it's because hitscan weapons are harder to rework/evolve compared to projectile based weapons. Think about it, grenade launchers have unique shot patterns that allows for more experimentation for players to figure out things. Each game gave us unique launchers that are far more advanced compared to regular hitscan weapon. That's my answer, basically.
I feel like it would just be silly for the Brute Shot not to be in infinite. We KNOW the banished still use Brute Shots, so I would hope that they would bring some to the fight
i think the grenade launcher class is just a much more fun class of weapon to design. people want "normal" gun (shotgun, rifles, pistols etc) to act more or less how they expect them to. but grenades on the other hand bring a lot to the table for fun. we're used to all sorts of weird grenades in games already (incendiary, sticky, flashbangs etc) so i think people are more accepting of weird grenade launcher weapons generally. not to mention i feel like that archetype just lends itself better to the utility role since they are in between a rocket launcher and normal rifle
I think the grenade launcher has seen more experimentation out of necessity. Every player spawns with grenades (usually) and they are normally quite abundant on maps. If the grenade launcher focusses on damage via grenades - it risks outperforming grenades too much. Alternatively, it could be balanced poorly and end up redundant next to grenades - a subtype for damage that doesnt require a weapon slot and is readily available. To summarise, the grenade launcher type saw more unique variants because it HAD to be unique to fit into the sand boxes of its respective games.
I would say it has something to do with the ‘projectile’ aspect of the gun. A bullet is a bullet. There’s only so much you can do; AR for spray, BR for burst, DMR for single shot, etc. Snipers have seen some variation, The Focus Rifle is a continuous beam dealing lower damage, while the Spartan Laser is basically I high damage sniper with a shot you have to charge first. But a projectile can be and do anything, from a literal grenade which also features and EMP burst, to the Brute Shot dealing more kinetic damage than actual damage. Now we have the Skewer, which is essentially a Spartan Laser, with less actual damage, and more kinetic impacts to send vehicles flying. But that would suggest the Skewer is more of a sniper...🤷♂️ I think a nice balance would be to have most of the weapons return, and all serve a different function; UNSC GL - Frag grenade with explosive damage, EMP burst, and a hold down to time feature. Plasma Caster - Plasma grenade with explosive damage, and holding releases the overcharged shot which then sends plasmas flying from the impact. Brute Shot - Brute based grenade with weaker explosive damage, but faster fire rate, and more kinetic damage imparted. Skewer - Spike with no explosive damage, but fatal kinetic damage and physics impact. Perhaps a secondary function could be to add an explosive charge to the spike by holding the trigger, which explodes a few moments after impact, sending more spikes for area of Effect damage?
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Halo Reach Grenade Launcher. It had the ability to EMP vehicles and if you held the trigger for a moment after firing the grenade would explode on release. I got pretty good at bouncing the grenade of the ground and detonating it right in front of other players faces. Very satisfying lol!
Does it bother anyone else that in this video about grenade launchers he left out the actual grenade launchers of halo (halo reaches grenade launcher and plasma launcher) idk, at least a mention would've been nice or a reason why he left them out. I guess I maybe looking to much into things. Still a great video like always Mr. Hyperion. Keep em up!
WARNING: THIS VIDEO CONTAINS FACTS!! Seriously though, I've always thought about this and wish they just kept all of the grenade launchers throughout the series even though I know that isn't realistic
My favorite weapon. The Halo 2 version I like better: mortar capabilities, angled around corners, it's great. The Halo 3: stuns enemies, throws around vehicles, and my favorite... made jumps.
It be neat if they added a updated brute shot where the blade is made out of red head light. Melee wouldn’t be instakill but it would have a alt fire ranged slash attack sort of like ichigos getsuga tendu. Thicker than heatwave but median to short range attack distance. Sort of like grave hammers and it not being melee but using the force in a brutal way.
you make incredible videos, how could you neglect the brute shot's use in mongoose launching?? real shit that made me think, you should make a video on the niche groups within the halo community - goosers, HLG, trick jumpers, and how they contribute to the longevity of this game =)
Why no mention of the sticky detonator? I feel like that thing was unique enough to get it's own video. Especially since the projectile had a built in radar to let you set up sneaky traps or clear corners before going around them.
I think that the Halo infinite multilayer could last a while however I would love to see more og/recent weapons such as the saw, storm rifle,plasma rifle, the brute rifle, og shot gun and vehicles such as the mantis and the falcon but the campaign version that has the turent that you can use while piloting.
Id argue the Plasma Launcher is more aligned as a "Launcher" class weapon, but in fairness, it is a very unconventional Launcher. We'll talk about it eventually.
