Grim Dawn DESTROYS Diablo 4 in every way! 

In terms of gameplay, depth, lore and conceptual design, GD. D4 is much newer from a AAA studio though so the graphical quality will be superior. GD is still my favorite arpg ever made though.

If Grim Dawn had the same graphic fidelity as Diablo IV nobody would be playing Diablo IV

@@Arshay I agree that D4 is superior in the graphics department, however unforunately that all it has going for it at least atm. HOpefully it improves over time, at least we have Grim Dawn to play now

@@filthyrando3632 Graphics and name recognition matters the most to some people

@@flexin85 It is a huge part of the draw for mass audiences to be sure. Grim Dawn is leagues better as far as quite literally everything else though.

Crate truely have a love and a passion for their games. The fact that Grim Dawn to this day is getting QoL and balance updates speaks volumes

@@flexin85 Even browsing the DLC and the "support the developers LOYALIST PACK" tongue and cheek cosmetic addons got positive reviews. The surface level low effort battle arena "which is actually good once you try it and learn the way it works, it is actually a nice alternative progression and flavor mixup" Crucible mode has positive reviews. Everything just screams " play me." As someone who jumped aboard late after the kickstarter and didn't even find it till after launch it is kind of ahead of its time. OG D2 "modded with pluggy stash and always active runes" and Grim Dawn sit atop the pinnacle of ARPG games. I doubt anyone will create something of equal weigh in the coming decade, it is a rare passion project that delivers. It delivers so well in fact I quit POE to go back to it because I just couldn't get the live service taste out of my mouth.

Crate are truly silent heroes among the devs.

@@WhatWillYouFind and do not forget...all of it's mechanics work perfectly! From the beginning back then they were fixing things and bugs non stop! That was a thing that amazed me with this game and the company.

It's certainly the best in recent years, I still play Never Winter Nights that came out in 2002, they are both imho the diamonds in the ARPG arena.

Yeah it is such a great game and so cheap too! Plus it is always great to have more games to play on the Deck 😀

Wise decision my friend!

best choice of your life my man

mods are great too

Can you sync the account you are playing in PC and in steam deck? I mean, play the same GD characters.

I am very much looking forward to the new update coming to Grim Dawn, it is amazing that Crate even still updates this game with QoL of life features at all. I 100% agree with you if anyone is a fan of ARPGS Grim Dawn is fully worth checking out!

Yeah. The game is getting better and better all the time. They stopped the expansions and since then they improve anything! And they ask not a single cent. I wish for a third expansion. Ashes of Malmouth is the best expansion ever after immortal throne in Titan quest.

@@flexin85 Just to put it in perspective, Grim Internals was probably the second most popular QoL mod after Rainbow Filter. I say "was", because since about a year seems to be discontinued from the creator and now has compatibility issues. Crate will be integrating serveral QoL features from the mod into the game itself with a free patch. GD is a hidden gem in the genre, mostly because in made by a studio that seems being a hidden gem in the industry...

@@HermesAthena72 I need to go back soon and replay Titan Quest again

@@kollus3234 It is insane the amount of content and QoL features Crate gives Grim Dawn for free, they really do deserve alot more recognition. I guess when you are an independent developer that actually has passion for your projects they deliver amazing titles like GD.

I am extremely excited for the new Xpac and patch 1.2 So much great stuff coming to fans of GD. BTW thank you for your service!

@@dsvoid7514 I am very excited for the new expansion!

"the devs just announced new content coming" Wait... WAAAAT? Where?

@@messire9837 Patch 1.2 and a new expansion coming next year most likely!

@@flexin85 Yup! getting to learn about it from that 2h reveal video right now. Also looks like you forgot to mention Grim Dawn 2 confirmed as well. Ha! What a year for gaming. Let's hope Crate doesn't opte for unity this time though. I'll bet on it, for even Zentai got the time to grow best Grim Beard of sort. So, Coffee + 2h GD video it is. I'm on it! And thanks for the head's up by the way. I don't know how I'd have done without you, all lost like I am between Jagged Alliance and Baldur's Gate savegames. I guess I got TWO focused for a while. Let's make it to FREE.

it really is one title that I think is vastly under appreciated. It really does offer something so many other games in the genre lack

Big agree!

I feel the same.

I return to Grim every time I want to play arpg. Dont even play diablo 2 any more. Grim has better lore

@@gordiasz GD lore is really good, just have to take the time to explore and world and read the notes to really get a good grasp on it.

Oh the lore is truely amazing, I think it is something most people overlook. Simply because most of it is hidden out in the world. The lore notes and the enviroment tell a ton of great stories.

@@flexin85Yes, i'm not the kind of gamer that usually reads the random lore but GD lore is so well written and pulls you in.

Also, the notes you find along the way add a nice touch to the game. For instance the notes of the mad scientist who created the slith (especially the last one, brrr...) and trip south...

Are there raid bosses

I am very excited about this new expansion! getting a shapshifting mastery that focuses on cold and bleed damage, is oging to be amazing. Plus even the 1.2 patch coming out soon looks like a great addition as well

people enjoy games differently to each to own.

You should play Titan quest and wait for Titan quest 2

@@archaontheeverchosen539 I'm looking forward to Titan Quest 2 actually. Never played the first, but I'm too addicted right now to maxing out my Grim Dawn characters and organizing my loot.

Got any hint for me? I play a Nightstalker Soldier with dual wielding poison dmg :D@@Siaynoq8

It really is something special!

Noi it isnt. Its reign of Terror :)

@@velorianlycine2800 LOVE that mod, I have playtime in Reign of terror then i do in a lot of recent AAA releases lol

I am in the same boat, GD is a game that always sucks me back in. It just offers so much content and build variety. Thank you watching the video and for the kind feedback!

I have 2500 in TL2 WITH Mods 💪

@@markusk3015 Mods really do add so much life to a game

1200 hours now, and a new dlc coming lol, with barb class, soooo 11 more builds? 😂

Take away the hype and the name recognition and it is really no contest between GD and D4 or even D3.

GD, Torchlight 2 or PoE (Early Access) so many people would advertise other arpgs for people to try because the launch of D3 disappointed so many fans. One thing I will give the D4 developers at least they are not saying stupid stuff like "Deckard Cain was annoying" like the D3 devs did.

@@flexin85 blizzard hasn't respected any of their IP since the SC Remaster " which was moreso Samsung and the fury of Korea would be endless, I think they alone would sink their ship somehow." D3 disappointed me mostly because I did seasonal stuff on and off. Kanai cube was the best time I ever had because the launch period was so crappy and even with IRL friends I couldn't get over the RMAH. It was nonsense watching that graft. TL2 with mods is a good experience, but it has weird scaling issues without mods and a none existent end game imo. I actually liked TL3 but it left a sour taste to see the new owners just abandon it. I finished TL3 one time and had a blast, but one time was enough??????? POE has a couple of problems for me. 1, the real end game is just a numbers crunch and while the systems and ability to play with how things activate is nice . . . its just for numbers. Build Identity just didn't feel like it did in D2, Grim Dawn, Victor Vran, or similar ARPGs. POE is also a service, not a product with all those trappings but at least it is old blood fair akin to WF. Build diversity up until the most recent reworks basically amounted to MAJOR KEYSTONES and practically nothing else, the web itself is superficial in giving the opinion of choice but really it is just fluff with some major fillers throughout much like FF10 had with its own grid system. The new update however changes all of that with on the fly gear swapping so maybe I will check it out again because that fundamentally alters the implication of the grid. I still play D2 and Grim Dawn, I have little deserve for Live Service after a decade of rug pulls and cash grabs. I've been following POE for years and years, as a service it is probably the best in the bunch. I never really played meta builds, but I also just wasn't invested enough after the campaign to buy stash tabs or pursue anymore which is the opposite I felt with GD because of the IDENTITY classes and even individual item sets put forward? The D4 developers fireside chat with the most recent patch notes was full of gaslighting. How can a developer say we changed those systems to make things better when they actually do the opposite? DM Diablo 4 has done content videos on it, hes actually fairly level headed about it. His take though mirrors the sentiments of the backlash, it is just a bad patch and the develops really sounded like they have no clue what they're doing in the developer patch notes video. D4 will implode if it doesn't do a 180 before Poe2 drops and or people just explore the older catalog. Sadly, Kotik will still be paid for this mess he likely created dragging everything we've loved from the husk of Blizzard in the mud. I haven't played a Blizzard game since I launched SC Remaster and thankfully saw it was as advertised. The writing is on the wall with all these greedy corporations and so many indie games deserve my time and money. Hey if you like awesome indie games check out Starsector for a scifi space combat simulator or Melvor if you're wanting a traditional rpg wrapped around an idle shell. both are pretty stellar.

I said for years that "Play Grim Dawn, it's the game that Diablo 3 should have been"

I 100% agree with you, if people did not buy these games and stopped supporting battle passes the companies would stop making them.

Poe2 ist better as D4😁

@@markusk3015 PoE 2 looks amazing! I am really excited to play that game

Grim Dawn is basically an altoholics dream, so many build options to pick from!

Build variety is top tier. Also melee combat, IMO, is the "meatiest" amongst of all arpg's.

@@gromoffinland4990 It really is a dream for anyone that enjoys making alts or theory crafting :)

GD feels like a love letter to fans of the genre.

Last Epoch is great too.@@flexin85

If D3 and D4 were as good as D2 then no one would care for these clones. They are lucky Blizzard is constantly messing up.

Same but grim dawn is too cartoony to really enjoy. Looks like d3 at release 😒

@@ZyklonBeast12 not going to lie you are the first person, I have seen refer to GD as cartoony. not saying you are wrong, just think that is an interesting take

I grew up playing D1 and D2 both timeless classics IMO. Have you tried the Reign of Terror mod, if not I would recommend checking it out since your a fan of D2 and Grim Dawn.

@@flexin85 I watched some videos on RU-vid. It's a good mod. I don't know how old you are but I'm 51 now. I prefer to play the games as they are these days. They zoomed out the camera again in GD which is awesome. I can see all my aoe now. I purchased d4 because I'm diablo fan and i quit it. Nothing compares to my pet build that i play now in GD. So much fun!

@@HermesAthena72 I like to play the game the first time as intended at least, and enjoy the modding scene afterwards. However some mods add so much QoL to the game, for instance if D4 supported mods officially and there was one to pull the camera out I would definately use that feature.

I am very excited for the 1.2 update it looks really good! Plus the new expansion and that new mastery being added looks incredible 😀 And yes I have played the Reign of Terror mod and think it is a complete blast to play

Grim Dawn just has a ton of little things that actually feel really great :)

The theory crafting is insane in GD, the game offers so much. One could spend hours upon hours discussing how deep the game goes.

GD databases and grimcalc are the true endgame XD

Reign of Terror! such an amazing mod 😀

The new patch and expansion are looking great, can not wait to try out all the changes coming to the game. Plus a new mastery as well! As for a GD 2 I know Crate said they are working on a new engine, and that Grim Dawn 2 would be developed (if they decide to make it) on the new engine.

they offer something other ARPGs just do not, I love the setting and the dual class system in each of these games. Cannot wait to see they they do next with GD and TQ2

Thank you for the proper use of “ARPGs” without the possessive apostrophe.

Mods add so much life to games, whenever a company does not support mods I think it is such a mistake and really does kill the life span of most games.

@@flexin85 my exact thoughts. Any game without mods looses so many opportunities to become better. Especially when devs work together with mod makers and implementing the most popular mods into core game... 🧑‍🍳🤌🤌

@@flexin85 Reading all this stuff, i wish i could have the chance to shout out loud to all gamers of the world "try GRIM DAWN!". Hehe 😆

@@HermesAthena72 right! Honestly it is getting harder and harder to find games like this that I just want to recommend to people.

Dawn of masteries mod

I have not played the Xbox verison of Grim Dawn yet, but maybe it will be something I pick up on the future. I do agree the game looks really nice, and Titan Quest still looking amazing today. It is such a beautiful game.

@@flexin85 It's outstanding tbh. Mouse & keyboard support and the best controller translation I've ever seen for what's basically a 1-to-1, raw PC port.

It doesn't need all those things, Crate is working on a new engine for Grim Dawn 2, and that game will probably look on par with other more modern visually ARPGs like D4 or PoE 2.

@@DoctorStrange01 I am really excited to see Crates new engine and GD2 when it is finally announced and shown off.

@@flexin85 Same. Imagine Grim Dawn but improved in every aspect and with a modern engine. That'll be a nearly perfect ARPG, all i really wanted in GD, despite not being a visual gamer, is updated engine and some more content in it. We will 100% get it in GD 2. Can't wait for the first glimpses of in-game footage and i hope it will not be a few years until then. It's great that Farthest Frontier already sold a decent amount of copies even in early access though, it will surely help.

I agree, except its like Blizzard copied all the mistakes Diablo 3 and WoW made and just put them into D4. LIke did they not learn from those already? Grim Dawn on the other hand just feels all around amazing. So many build options with the content to enjoy playing your characters with.

@@flexin85 no question there, I have a lot of hours in d3, when I saw d4 all saw is the copy paste content without the QOL elements, how do you make next game without previous game fixes?

@@aoetje474 I have no idea, the game is a complete mess. The fact that people are excited for season 2 because Resistance should be fixed by then. Or haveing to wait for season 3 for the leaderboard. Shows this game needed another year at least in the oven.

@@flexin85 if you follow/ed other actizzard bobby kotick games, thats exactly what happens, it takes them 5-10 years to get them to playable/enojoyable/finished state :) failed developer

​@@aoetje474 Couldnt agree more, D4 will fill complete after the first expansion comes out. Once fans pay another 50-70 dollars for it

D4 is playing catch up at this point, the first season was really barebones. Hopefully future seasons add a ton more but until I actually see it happen I am not holding my breathe. IMO it is sad because Blizzard games used to be the gold standard and now they all feel so unfinished at release.

@@flexin85 well, maybe but it's laughable this is the best they could do compared to older games. Time Will tell

@@deez3913 I agree, the game is in an awful state. It really feels like the game is in beta, lacking so many basic features. The fact that a "search" function for the stash is a bullet point for season 2, really shows the poor condition the game launched in.

Thank you so much for the feed back! Grim Dawn really is amazing game, it truly is in a league of its own!

Patch 1.2 just dropped making the game even better too

@@flexin85 Nice, Think I ll start a new character. Thanks for the info friend.

I agree the other games can be really fun, I do enjoy league start for PoE. It is always fun for about a month or so. Warhammer Inquisitor Martyr is another game I feel like is overlooked, as it can be fun blasting away hordes of enemies with a shotgun or flame thrower. However Grim Dawn just has so much content packed into it. Like you said the bosses, the world and the lore just feel amazing. Plus while it is deep in its mechanics, its presented in a way you dont need 10 tabs opened on the side like you do for PoE. GD is just something special 😀

Yeah it’s crazy how many people are trying other ARPGs because of boring D4 is.

Absolutly I love GD and the more people that get to try it out the better. As for the MP I am sure a ton of people over look it because it lacks dedicated servers. However, not every game needs to be an online over title.

I am really excited to see a new expansion coming. Can not wait to see how shapeshifting works in this game!

It definately is a top favorite of mine as well, I can not want to see what is next for this game.

It feels as if Diablo 4 was made in a vacuum where no other ARPG existed. Plus the fact that with Blizzards resources there is no excuse to put out a game that is being compared to a 2016 from an indie studio in the first place. If D4 is having trouble going against Grim Dawn or POE how is it going to handle when Grim Dawn 2 or POE 2 finally come out?

The build options in GD seem endless it really lets people make extremely unique or whacky characters. D4 just simply needed more time in the Oven, it was definately rushed out...

@@flexin85 Really now, Grim dawn supports all the types of DMG so wonderfully! It's amazing! Aoe, pets, dots, everything! YOU GO NOWHERE WITHOUT RESISTANCES and this is one of the best things in the game!

@@flexin85 Who wants to pay a premium price for an unfinished game...? Sure their campaign is very nice but that's about it.

@@JohnSmith-rr8hp that is the problem with most AAA releases these days they are unfinished, broken, or just overly filled with monetization.

​@@flexin85Totally, and the way to fight back for us consumers is that, we need to reject those and stop buying those games... It's sad to see Blizzard ruining my childhood brands one by one.

I love the changes in 1.2, everytime I put Grim Dawn down something comes out to pull me back in!

A man with exquiste taste in games. Cheers 😀

It is amazing we are getting a new Grim Dawn expansion and a Titan Quest 2. Great time to be a fan of the ARPG genre!

Thank you for watching!

Grim Dawn really is a masterpiece, one of the best Arpgs on the market! I really wish more people would give this amazing game a chance.

PoE is another great Arpg, looking forward to the Trail of the Ancestors league?

I always come back to GD it is just so much fun to play and try new builds. BTW you have amazing taste in games!

I wouldnt say so, its mainly a single player game. So always a good time to start.

@@flexin85 diablo 4 left a bitter taste in my mouth so I was looking for something old school.. I started playing grim dawn 2 days ago and I immediately liked the game so I bought all the dlc

@@Freedom-kl8rt nice! The DLC really adds so much content, you will get 100s of hours of play time out of this one. Hopefully D4 gets bettter in the future, in the mean time enjoy Grim Dawn :)

Never is late for GD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes!😊

The developers did ask for an extra year of development time on the game. However I agree it is really starting to feel like no matter how much time Blizzard devs are given they just can not nail it.

it truely is, and we even got more updates coming soon to it!

Yeah I love the itemization and theory crafting in Grim Dawn. It is what keeps me coming back time and time again. It really is something special.

Pretty much the same for Last Epoch, seems D4 is basically an ad campaign for smaller studios.

I am glad you’re enjoying the game, it really is an amazing title.

That would be incredible!

good call! BTW if you got the game on PC and still have that Diablo itch. There is mod called Reign of Terror, where someone completely remade Diablo 1 and 2 in Grim Dawn.

Yeah atm D4 is just not worth it, the game does not feel like a complete game. Nice 5k hours, that is some good milage out of a game!

@@flexin85 And an expansion is coming. 7K hours... here we go :)

@@immortalis1001 The new expansion look amazing, can not wait to try the new mastery!

The dual class system just opens the door for so many great builds. I love Titan Quest as well, two amazing titles.

I am very excited about the new update coming, plus whatever the future brings to Grim Dawn or from Crate. Thank you for the feedback btw I really do appreciate it!

Grim Dawn and PoE both feel more like what Diablo 3/4 should have been. Such amazing titles

​@@flexin85playing as a witch doctor in d3 got me bored really quick on launch

Fangs of Asterkarn looks amazing, cannot wait to play the Berserker mastery! It is good to see shape shifting heading towards Grim Dawn!

@@flexin85 ohhh that sounds fun, haven't seen Anything yet. any idea on the date?

@@CyberBeep_kenshi I believe there is not exact date yet just that it is supposed to be sometime in 2024.

The campaign in D4 was not bad but afterwards the game just falls flat IMO. I will say the lore and history of the game is amazing however that is mainly due to my love of D1/D2 Grim Dawn feels like a fresh start in a series that I hope grows even larger. Esp with Crate building a new engine for Grim Dawn 2.

D4 is fun for a campaign playthrough (levels 1-50) and the expansion campaigns will probably be fun too. But that's all it has going for it. There's no endgame to love, and the seasons are garbage. Who tf wants to spend the first 10-20 hours of the game clicking statues and unveiling the world map to get renown to just get skill points, paragons, and health pot slots EVERY season? Blizzard, if you're willing to put in a campaign skip, why not just go all the way and skip the renown grind too lmfao. It all feels like a massive chore. Like taking out the trash, doing dishes, or making your bed before you get to have fun. Meanwhile, compare it to GD, Titan Quest, D2, and even PoE. I jump right in, I kill mobs, I get gear and get to have fun. No clicking statues or walking around uncovering the map for 10 hours every season start. I jump in and kill mobs, and get gear to get stronger and kill mobs faster...you know, the point of games in this genre (which D4 somehow misses even though Diablo invented the genre lol)

History repeats itself I guess lol

I actually rewatched the video and I say it over a dozen times. Imagine if it was a drinking game lol

gotta add that extra flare at the end😆

@@dantefromdevilmaycry9857 Always gotta go out with a bang!

I have been hearing that alot

I am not going to lie... you seem to have great taste in games.

@@flexin85 haha, thanks my guy! Been a gamer since I was 3, the all-timers stand out because I still return to them no matter what else comes out. Once that shiny new wears off, you miss that depth.

I would love a grim dawn 2! How insane would it be if we get GD2 and a Titan quest 2 around the same time?

Yeah can not wait to see what they do with the new engine they are building

Thank yo my for the feedback I really do appreciate it! Yes I think a lot of people regret buying D4 esp when it is crystal clear the game was not ready to be released. The game just needs more time in the oven. Grim Dawn on the other hand just feels overall amazing and has so much replay value.

It really does have an amazing vibe and lore to it.

They really do need some more classes in the game. Would love to see a Warrior class return like from Diablo 1.

It really is, coming from a smaller studio it is insane the amount of content and updates it gets to this day.

@@flexin85 I agree - I've only been playing for roughly a couple of weeks and I've already sunk over 70 hours into the game, and still am excited to play it. Superb game design from top to bottom

@@mrskinszszs it is a game I constantly come back to, just so many options different builds and different content to do ingame. Plus with all the mod support is insane, just an overall fun experience.

is it too late to start playing this game?

@@Freedom-kl8rt not at all. I started a month ago

It really is good game.

From my understanding Crate is building a new engine to developer Grim Dawn 2 on! So hopefully it turns out as good as the first game.

While I do greatly enjoy just about every League start in PoE and have a complete blast with that game. I 100% agree with you, Grim Dawn just has something completely special about it. It is a game that pulls me back in constantly. BTW thank you for the sub I greatly appreciate it!

@@flexin85 I love Poe and thats the reason why I spent over 4000 hours in it. But guess what, probably 60-70% of that time spent are on PoB where I have to calculate my build, and checking price on the market so I can sell my stuff. PoE is WAY TOO COMPLICATED and I never ever recommend it to my friends. Some seasons in PoE are ridiculous too. Crafting system is spread out everywhere and it makes the whole mess combined together. Build Diversity, Smooth Combat, active devs, gorgeous cosmetic and best thing is, this game is free, that's the reason why I stayed for that long. Grim Dawn pretty much perfect every single parts of the game from combat to crafting and it is super newbie friendly. Crate should be recognized much sooner for creating this masterpiece

@@TRANC3ak47 I agree I really wish Crate got more recgonization for what they have done in the ARPG genre. Grim Dawn has enough to apease both hardcore players and casual ones, it really is such an amazing game. Hopefully Grim Dawn 2 in the future gets more love.

Crate are amazing devs, really wish more would follow their example.

Design a problem and sale the solution it is the way of many gaming developers these days.

I agree 100% the lore and backstory are incredible, esp for a brand new IP. It is insane how much story is packed into this game, if you take the time to really dive into the games story it is amazing.

I liked the dialogue choices. Still remembered being upset, not being able to stop the man from burning his family to death on my first playthrough...

I love the fact the game has pieces of gear and sets that can pretty much be build defining. For some reason so many newer games just lack itemization like this. Diablo has great combat and smooth controls but the loot is just so lackluster at least with D3 and D4. As for the mods, I have no idea why more companies do not fully support the modding community. Skyrim is a great exampe of this, without mods that game would not have the life span it has had.

Same as TL2 WITH mods👍

Dawn of Masteries adds like 1400 class combos while Reign of Terror translated Diablo 1 & 2 into Grim Dawn's settings (sadly the dev(s) dropped putting out a version with only D2 classes and gear).

Over 20.000 total different maps in TL2 💪

@@Rokabur I heard they stopped development for the Reign of Terror mod. Which sucks because I greatly enjoy the mod, after I love GD and I love D1/2. However I heard they working on their one game now so we have that to look forward too 😃

Honestly following a build guide really helped me enjoy PoE alot as well! As for Grim Dawn I would check out grimtools.com there is a ton of build guides on the website. You can even search by class, however the cool thing about GD is you can respec really at at any time for not much Iron. The only thing you can not change is the masterys you pick.

I can recommend looking up some of the theory crafting pages. It really really helps to understand how the damage calculation formulas work and which factors are considered before others, etc. One thing that isn't explained well in game is the difference between +dmg and +%dmg. Flat damage will only increase your auto attacks or spells that use auto attack dmg as a base. Percentage increases increase all damage of the type. So any caster skills and spells will usually not benefit from any +dmg on your weapons for example. It took me waaay too long to understand and incorporate this. The other unexplained things are how physical & pierce damage work, how shield or armor damage reduction works, etc. Some of it works as expected, other things just not quite so. But it is all out there.

it really is one of the best ARPGS on the market. Feels like a game made by a team that are actually passionate about their game.

Thank you for the correction.

I do not understand why Blizzard did not just built upon what was already working. They had a ton of examples of what works and does not work in the genre.

There are reports the dev asked for a year delay on D4 and blizzard higher ups said no.