David, hey, in Europe we use: 1. the insulated cooper conductor wire to avoid the Cu copper contact with Aluminum solar panels frame, that may cause the creation of the galvanic pair with the difference of the potentials, that would be source of fire 2. We use Zink covered or rost-free bolts, nuts and washers or the clamps like yours to attach the insulated copper wire to the panel frames and the mounting frames...
The star washer should go between the lug and the module frame. It bites through the anodization of the aluminum into the aluminum itself. That's what provides the grounding. Too, if you use a similar washer under module at the mounting clamps, you can use much less copper, as it uses the rails as the grounding conductor.
As soon as I noticed i looked if someone mentioned it those are to bite into the frame of the panel not bite into the clamp itself lol it’s strange cause he said that before putting it on the wrong side
Hi David, I appreciate the work you did there, and it's useful for me as I'm a student of Solar Engineering myself. Although, I would try to put the grounding wire below the panels rather on top of them as it would get exposed to heat in the open air.
I know Im asking randomly but does anyone know of a method to log back into an instagram account..? I was dumb lost my login password. I would love any tips you can offer me.
You should use some anti-seize on your connections especially where dissimilar metals touch like copper and stainless, stainless and aluminum to prevent galvanic corrosion. Dielectric grease should be used where you have multiple electrical connections that are close to each other as it doesn't conduct electricity.
Ideal makes an anti-oxidant joint compound for aluminum to aluminum and aluminum to copper connections. Should be used on service entrances and breaker boxes also.
I saw one mistake and one thing to save a bit of wire. First the washer should always go against the panels, why, because the washer needs dig into the protective coding to achieve the connection for grounding. Second, when stringing from panel to panel make it a bit tighter so it doesn't flap in the wind etc which adds unneeded stresses on grounding connections. For your fist build i think you did a great job and you made a smart move to have it looked over for mistakes etc. I've found paying attention to small things go a long way in all area. Great job..
@@DavidPozEnergy well, it's what you asked for so I gave you the truth of i saw. Now if you look at your opening scene you will see your washer setting on top grounding connections, there, they are no good and can't do their job. However, if placed oposet where washer can dig into protective coating then you will have a sure conection. Remember your grounding the panels not the clips.
Great video David. You havd auch an excellent attitude and persona. My understanding is the lockwasher should go under the nut. It is not needed under the bolt head. Cheers -Jay
Yes, you are right. Depends on the type of washer. A split-washer can go under the head of the bolt, but a star washer is for biting through the coating on the aluminum. I didn't realize that, but fixed it on my solar builds since this old video.
this is correct....but in the scheme of things what the heck are we grounding the frames for as the solar panels themselves only have 2 wires and has no electrical connection to the frames
@@GoldensRule45 One word: Lightening As best I understand from my studies, those panels can attract a strike, and you want the energy to be directed away from your house/system. If you don't give lightening a path it will make its own path. That's my best answer anyway. There HAS to be a reason it is recommended. Now of course lightening is not going to be held up because the star washer is on the worng side. But I suppose the other reason is if a bare panel wire ever came into contact with the frame, it would trip the ground fault detector. I would also assume attaching the panels to the mount produces a ground of some degree, and that the lugs and wire insure it is a stable ground. BTW - You mentioned having TWO ground rods. Are they connected together? Another nugget I pulled out of the research for my DIY system is that grounds should be "commoned up". If you don't you create a "potential difference" between the grounding point, and current can flow. You can run that same stranded copper that you used on the panels between the two rods.
1:48 Text should read "Stainless steel self-drilling screw"; a self-tapping screw requires a hole be drilled FIRST and the machine-type self-tapping screw provides the threading. a self-drilling screw is a sheet-metal screw with an integral bit that drills through the metal. Most people don't know the difference between the two.
Having two rods in the house is dangerous because you create a voltage gradient between the rods. If lighting strikes you could have a current path between the poles with thousands of volts. The further they are, the bigger the voltage gradient. Watch Mike Holt on the subject.
@@DavidPozEnergy David, this video from Mike talks about it. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the public. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ypo99VRxT44.html
By doing this, are you not making a lightening rod out of your solar panels? I have a conc roof and plan to keep my solar panels isolated with a separated dedicated lightening rod. Hopefully the lightening will go to the path of less resistance (lightning rod). If any current does make it into the pv wire, I have a breaker and 500v dc limiter before the inverter to stop it there. That is my plan anyways...0
I'm a 30 year electrician I have had inspectors fail me on how I mounted my lay in ground lugs. No self tapers, No nut and bolt, He made me tap and thread the for the bolt, I do regret not ask for a code reference.
This is actually bad advice. Having two grounding rods means that the panels can carry the built up potential that could accumulate for a variety of reasons and your body could provide a path with less resistance to equalize that. Additionally, your ground should go to your bound neutral at the power source, either inverter, battery or main panel depending on your set up.
Your ground on the panels needs to match the ground on your house. They should not be separate ground. They need to be bonded. You don't want two different potentials for ground as lightning or a power surge may go down your inverter wires to the house rather than into the ground rod if your house ground is a lower potential. Ask your electrician friend how to bond house ground to solar ground.
Todd - thats why I found this video as a follow on to watching the Mike Holt video. Appreciate the clarification as my solar design team incorrectly said to drive earth ground rod by PV panel array which is contrary to what the solar panel instructions say.
I have a question? Why are you drilling into the side solar panel frame. As far as I know, the manufacturers say that you should NOT drill into the side of the solar cell frame. you should use the underside of the frame or if there are pre-drilled holes, you should use these holes, I always follow the Solpanel manufacturer's instructions. and that it will be a cleaner and more attractive assembly so I work with the ones I use when they have to assemble facilities I also want to say that it's fun to follow what you do, have a nice day
The copper wire CAN NOT touch the aluminum frame or you will get galvanic corrosion. The grounding nuts are stainless steel which can go between aluminum and copper.
Your guess is as good as mine. They (star washers) were part of the grounding package I bought. I'm hoping the manufacturer has a reason. It can't hurt, right? I'll ask Kevin when I get a chance.
Oddly enough that ground bracket is most likely an anodized extrusion prior to being cut into .75" lengths. Either way it isnt hurting a thing. @@DavidPozEnergy
It seems most installers just ground the aluminum mounting rails, not the individual panel frames too, though my panels have marked grounding holes. I doubt that biting thru the anodizing helps long-term since that will just form Al2O3 which is an insulator. For personnel safety, dangerous voltage levels would likely jump across the anodized layer anyway. Copper in aluminum outside will corrode and oxides are not conductive. Twice in cars I had problems with the return path for a starter and alternator thru aluminum parts failed due to corrosion. The starter problem I found when the cluster was pulled out and I saw smoke from the speed cable when starting. I sanded the aluminum case points and fixed it.
I agree that most of the time the bonding and grounding is happening at the rails, not the individual panel frame. They can do this if you are using hardware that's UL listed as a bonding point. Check out the back-side of some UL-listed clips and you will see some tiny teeth that bite through the anodized coating. In my case, these panels and hardware are old. The clips don't have the UL for bonding, so I need another form of bonding to be legal.
Yes, per the latest NEC rules shown in other youtubes. Doesn't have to be a ground rod. A metal pole in the ground or even a metal building can suffice. Probably only need to ground the frame rails, not each panel.
Shouldn't the panels be common ground to the equipment (e.g. controller, inverter, etc.)? I mean all the equipment in the system goes to one grounding point.
I would think if you keep the 2 grounds as separate system with 2 breaker boxes and the grounding very far from each other, I would think it would not be a problem....two systems
Did you do an earth resistance test? Might have been cheaper and easier to bolt the panels together at their sides where possible and just use copper links where necessary.
Isn't grounding to earth only a thing that the utilities do to have an alternate path back to the source? why would an electrical circuit ever want to go to the ground? if you're off grid then ground rods make no sense especially two of them, if you're worried about lightning then wouldn't it be better to invite it away from your stuff and not to it? don't get me wrong about the importance of using ground wire to connect up metal case items together for safety though.
Hehe. Rails and panels make a complete whole metal structure. Grounding the frame will ground the whole sistem. No need for grounding individual panels. Just ground the frame on one point and you're done. Want to make sure everything is ok? Just measure the resistance from each panel frame to the point you ground it.
isn't there some glavanic action with stainless steel and aluminum so that it deteriorates the aluminum? I thought those weren't supposed to be tied together
Thanks for the helpful videos. Was it you who posted a video about how an expert came in and counseled you to add ground fault detection? Is that "Kevin"? I'll keep looking for the video, but regardless, I had a question on ground fault detection that wasn't covered in that video. Where is a ground fault detected at? What equipment monitors for a fault out at the solar panels? Is it the breakers on the inverter? On the charge controller? Dedicated circuit/equipment? Thank you.
I read almost all of the comments....which is thoroughly confusing....everyone has their own freakin' opinion which makes me just want to "not ground" anything. LOL....why even bother because everything turns to crap in the end. LOL (I'm being negative)....now I'll be positive....great video! :)
I B eleive stranded or solid is code or preference.. I prefer stranded because if you lose a strand the ground will still be maintained. Break in the solid ground is broken
You should had used aluminum straps to connect the panel togather and check for continuity between the first panel and last then run the grounding conductor to the earth rod .Or if you have used the rail as metal once the panel are connected by metal screws it is ground only the last or the first panel connect to earth rod
The star washer is meant to bite into the aluminium frame of the solar panel to bypass the anodised coating Also I think your copper wire is quite loose and may touch the solar panel frames over time, a bird might sit on it and bend it to touch the frame permanently. You might have future issues with galvanic corrosion (the reason why you are using the steel lugs in the first place is to avoid this corrosion) I think you might want to redo the star washers and tighten up the copper wire so they only touch the stainless steel lugs.
You could have only added small pieces of 6 mm2 grounding cable from each PV module to the other and to some points of the fixation system without using this much copper wire.
Question... does this equipment grounding need to be insulated or can it be bare? I just worry about fire hazards in case it gets energized somehow, thanks!
The ground needs to connect to the common ground outside or inside your load panel. Not at the ground rods. Your load panel ground should go to two ground rods 6’ or more apart with no breaks. Don’t do this wrong or it can be dangerous.
When I looked up the code it said 6 gauge wire, which is what I used. 6 gauge was heavier then I would have guessed, but that's what it called for. Thanks for watching.
@@DavidPozEnergy I have not seen stranded grounding wire ever used on a house. Solid is all I have ever seen in my 71 years. Retires contractor. I am not saying you are wrong. Just saying.
Hi David, please give me some advice about grounding the photovoltaic installation. My entire Off grid 8KW system is totally separate from the main system. We have made a separate dedicated grounding installation for this system + dedicated sockets for vital consumers. Question: Do I connect the inverter and solar panels + battery bank together to this ground? My doubt is about the inverter- I don't know if it should be connected to the main grounding system. Thanks, gratings from Romania,
Hi David, I love what you are doing, and I appreciate how much work it is to put out these videos. I am especially intrigued by the hot water systems you have salvaged. I agree with your statements in other videos that the Buildit solar website is incredible. Your house sealing is amazing. I am embarrassed at how leaky my 50 year old house is even after paying to have it air sealed. i think I went from 6000 CFM down to 3800 CFM (if memory serves me right). So I have a lot more room to improve. Are you thinking of building or buying a battery for time shifting or for backup power? Does your power company have evening peak rates? I am going solar this year and I am working on a battery backup system. I also have a generator for backup, but I noticed in a power outage a few years back that the generator was super loud. It was hard to sleep with it running. I would like enough backup to go 12 hours without cranking the generator up. While I don't have demand charges on my power bill or time of use charges, I would like to future proof against any of these issues like people are running into in California, Nevada and Arizona. All that said, I do have the ability depending on the plan to buy power at the market price, so it can be slightly cheaper in the middle of the night. With solar, It will be zero during the day. My electrical load is huge 30 to 60 kwh per day. Peak load is 11KW. I had the house air sealed and have R50 insulation in the Attic. I still need to do some more upgrades.
Hi Gregg, It sounds like you are doing some good stuff. You already dropped your air leakage by 37%, nice job! My eventual plan is to build a battery system with the solar panels and move some loads to it. Basically, a small off-grid system. Eventually (several years) we will move and I plan to build a 100% off-grid house. So this system is a trial run for me. I'm learning. I can say that the solar hot water system in my house has been exceeding my expectations. If I had a full basement I could have built a taller tank to take advantage of stratification, but I just have a crawlspace. The space heating solar system in the garage is working OK, but not perfect. The garage is just not positioned as well as the house for it. At an average of 50 kwh per day, are you heating with electric?
Hi David, Good question about electric heat. The house was built in 1977 as an All electric house. By 1992 the neighborhood got natural gas, so the electric furnace was replaced with a gas furnace. A couple years ago I replaced that furnace with another gas furnace after the heat exchanger developed a crack. It has a 10 seer carrier 3 ton central air conditioner originally installed in 1992. It still works, but has had to be recharged (R22) several times in the last 5 years. I would replace it, but all the newer r410A systems have a 20-30% failure rate within the first 5 years. I built on to the house in 2005. I installed electric radiant floor heat in the tile floor in a master bath over an unheated garage. In 2004, I installed a Jacuzzi 6 person hot tub which is still running great after 14 years. In 2011, I replaced the water heater with a geo-spring heat pump 50 gallon hot water heater. I have a deep freeze, and two refrigerators. I recently installed a SENSE home energy monitor. It uses a deep learning AI to identify loads in the house. So far, it has only identified about half of the major loads in the house. I can rename the loads if I feel like it or keep what it suggests. This month (10 days) so far we have used 420.8 kw hours. Other - 33.8% Always on - 23.2% Jacuzzi Hot tub - 21% Master bath radiant floor - 6.4% Fridge - 4.7% - (I think this is the Heat pump water heater.) Fridge 3 - 3.1% Fridge 2 - 3.0% Fridge 4 - 1.6% - (I think this is the chest style deep freeze.) Finished Basement lights 1.3% Heat 4 - 0.6% Toaster - 0.5% light 1 - 0.2% Heat 2 - 0.2% Microwave - 0.2% Coffee maker - 0.1% Garage door - 0.0% In prep for going solar, I wanted to understand what my peak loads were. It is useful to pull up the cell phone app before we leave the house to see if anything was left on. I think it has cut usage by at least 5KWh per day. Shortly after getting the app, I was able to reprogram the radiant floor controller to better match how we use the floor. I turn it on for 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours at night. Understanding the usage, helps focus my attention on what makes a difference. I am hoping to size the system to include charging 2 electric cars (maybe next year). Most of the charging will happen during the solar production hours or in the middle of the night. I am thinking about building a solar heated hot water storage tank under the the hot tub that will "lose" heat to the bottom of the hot tub. If the storage tank can be maintained above 120 degrees, then the 104 degree hot tub will seldom ever turn on. Also, the water tank can be a preheater for the domestic hot water heater.
I'm using the solar pv for heat at the moment. Here is a video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jFoxIit8NYA.html As for the net-zero, I'm still working on it. Close but not quite.
Interesting installation. Until I saw the back of the array I was getting a bit OCD about the wonky clamps. Have you got a longer term solution to the pallets? They'll rot pretty quick in that environment.
Hi. Nice job on the grounding on the panels but I didn't see any mention of a ground Fault Detection Device... Do you have one back in the house? I there is a fault how will you know? I'm not an expert and I'm just in the process of installing my first system so interested in this subject. Thanks Ben
Something like this www.ebay.com.au/itm/Morningstar-Ground-Fault-Protection-Device-For-MPPT-Solar-Regulators-150V/292550133169?hash=item441d58c5b1:g:1ikAAOSwA~VaBRn2:rk:1:pf:0
Hi Ben, I have a few different systems at my house. The solar system you are viewing in this video has no GFPD, or MPPT, or inverter, or batteries. It is direct tied to a heater inside: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jFoxIit8NYA.html However, with another system I have I did use a GFPD here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4Cv_m33s2U0.html
hi David, just fine and Good the video, sorry for my english, I have a question, is posible to put of cooperbar in any place of garden? must be near of house? I only have 2 panels. thanks for answer……….. Im in mexico.
Hi David: I have voltage between inverter enclosure ground and neutral. What could be the problem. I am off grid so should be something with solar system Thank you.
my thoughts exactly? the panels are already touching the mounting so you would be using way less wire and be doing the same thing right or wrong? Like you i have no grounding atm and just thought of it recently.
Za pierwszym razem prawidłowo dałeś podkładkę a co do samego uziemienia dobry pomysł ale czy spełni swoje zastosowanie? Pręt czy rura wbita w ziemię moim zdaniem w tym momencie jest słabym przewodnikiem prądu z powodu farby.
The acorn nut bites through the paint and into the copper rod. Also, there is a second rod driven into the ground out back, wired to this one with a buried copper wire. Thanks for watching.
Is there any reason that (-)Ground is not also grounded to chassis? Reduce static and signal noise...give lightning another option?! :) I have a small 1.6k 16 panel setup..still assembling.
That is done with a ground fault protection breaker that grounds the negative terminal of the battery, charge controller, metal boxes, ECT. The GFP breaker is installed inline before the charge controller.
The excessive looping of the wiring is a bad idea, the entire point is to create the shortest possible path from the highest point to the ground. A single mounting tag on the upper mounting rail would have been plenty.
I have another video that goes into a little more depth with the combiner box. Does this one help you more? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-E07EvWWzxSQ.html and ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yOVsqQ8KaiI.html
Not sure where you got that idea. Aluminum has an oxidation problem so they anodize the bare aluminum. You have to get past the anodizing to get a good electrical connection.
No. I'd suggest using a MPPT charge controller to step down panel voltage to match the battery. That means using solar panels in series to create a higher voltage than your battery, then the MPPT charge controller will drop it down to your battery settings.
David, your grounding looks so over engineered. I just installed a small house 2.5Kw array with assistance of an electrician - aluminium is an excellent conductor and he reckoned an earthing wire from one point on the rail support was sufficient (assuming the panel frames all contact the same rail). Anyway, your array is supergrounded!
Its is anodized aluminium so its not as nearly conductive as aluminium wires. In order to counteract this trait the star washer was developed in order to bite the anodized aluminium
If you use the grounding star washers to connect the rails to the solar panels then you have a good connection, otherwise you haven't pierced the oxidization layer of the aluminum and it's tentative at best whether you have a good ground connection. He may have over done it, but on the other hand, without ground-bond washers, he may not have. (simple compression clamps don't provide a good electrical bond in many cases)
If something shorts inside the panel and the positive or negative end up touching the frame, then the frame will be energized. That means you have the potential to get shocked if you touch the frame. By grounding you prevent that. And, I've also added a ground fault circuit breaker which will shut off if this happens.
